Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Lacrimosa]

People need to learn how to grab.

Doesn't help when your character has the slowest(?) grab in the game ;_;.

 

[PhantomShab]

Not caring for a character is perfectly fine. And in a roster his big, it's inevitable.
Throwing tantrums or criticizing the freaking reveal trailer is just petty, though.

At least Ultimate's newcomers have been very well balanced between the different time periods.
If you were a 90's gamer, Smash 4 didn't have **** for you. Just Pac-man and Cloud.

I wish my life was so easy if I can complain about a character I don't like in a video game.

Anyway unpopular opinion time. The Links are better off having the same basic moveset but with some unique moves of their own sprinkled into their neutral moves. Though I agree that Young Link and Toon Link having Triforce Slash is dumb and lazy. Should have been Fierce Deity Link and the Ballad of Gales respectively.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's the thing. I never played Final Fantasy. I never played Persona. I never played Dragon Quest. ****, my personal views on stuff with the franchise make me actively refuse to play Persona or Dragon Quest yet I'm fine with those characters being added to the point I was outright excited for the first two and rather curious for the Hero having like 16 special moves. Despite this, I cannot find anything exciting about Banjo Kazooie. I played the one game people love of a franchise which has 5 games and I'm fully aware what the references are but I didn't find it exciting. I watched 2 separate let's plays of the first game in case the later parts of the game had something worthwhile to it yet nothing or worse yet, terrible game design with **** like Rusty Bucket, the 1 up in Click Clock Wood that will kill you if you go for it and Gruntilda's quiz. There's also the fact that this was THE definition of wasted potential to me, you go up to Microsoft, a competitor in the industry with two incredibly iconic franchises that outright changed gaming itself but they settled for one of the many cartoony mascot platformers that was inspired by Mario like Blinx, Rascal, Bubsy, Glover, KO Kangaroo, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger and many, many more that proved that they couldn't last in the industry. I also feel that if Banjo really is somehow 'haha uniquely charming' then it should be able to stand on it's with a unique CG trailer instead of going "Haha you liked that old trailer right? Want to see the EXACT same trailer? It's a reference, so that means it's ok if we can't prove that this was worth effort!" You can do a reunion style trailer without copying an older trailer. ****, if they wanted to mimic a style of trailer, they should have used Lucas' trailer as he didn't get a CG trailer. "Oh but it's a reference! It must be flying over your head!" It isn't though, ****, it's outright poetic that it's a carbon copy as the only thing Banjo had that other **** back then didn't have was googley eyes because come on guys, grossout humour and sex jokes were VERY common for cartoony characters in the 90's. To me, this is like if instead of Mega Man or Ryu, Capcom let them use Son Son or Ruby Heart

Not gonna comment on the trailer part, but, watching let's plays of a game does just not give the same experience as playing the game by yourself.

(And try to avoid using slang words which'll get automatically censored anyway.)

 

[ze9]

They don't need to be. But considering just how many 90s characters we have, most complaints about the lack of balance on this subject feel really biased.

I'm not the one complaining.

 

[KayEf]

But Joker and Snake are on Nintendo consoles...

Yea, that's what I tell him! But his reasoning is that the current iterations of Joker (which he doesn't care for whatsoever) and Snake were not on Nintendo consoles. It's really stupid.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Positive unpopular opinion: I'm glad all the characters have better recoveries and edge hogging is gone. It makes more characters viable and we get to see alot of matchups we wouldn't see otherwise. I consider this a step forward for the series.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not gonna comment on the trailer part, but, watching let's plays of a game does just not give the same experience as playing the game by yourself.

(And try to avoid using slang words which'll get automatically censored anyway.)

Just by watching people play No More Heroes made me realize why people loved it despite some intentionally bad level design. Watching SotN made me understand why it's the most popular CastleVania game. Watching Prime made me see why it's the fan favourite Metroid game. You can see what makes some games special or not when watching others play. When watching fans play Banjo Kazooie to see if me not playing very far in the game was why I didn't like it didn't help. Similar to No More Heroes, the game has some terrible design choices which are deliberate such as punishing players for exploring and killing you for going after that extra life in Click Clock Wood. With NMH I got to see the outright fantastic and hilarious writing with it's deliberately unlikable protagonist getting mocked by the game itself. I see it in pretty much every other game I watch but I'm not going to go play the game again at an old friend to see "Maybe I'll like it despite Click Clock Wood's idea being the only thing I could somewhat care about"

 

[PhantomShab]

There is no extra life in Click Clock Wood that kills you for trying to get it.

 

[Megadoomer]

There is no extra life in Click Clock Wood that kills you for trying to get it.

In the winter, there's one under the ice water on the shore - it's about as far from the hole that you enter the water through as you can get, and the ice water drains your oxygen twice as fast as normal. I haven't tried to go for it, but it might be possible if you go into the water, enter Gnawty's home for air, get the life, go back to Gnawty's home for air, and exit the water the way that you came in.

That seems like a really minor gripe, though, and an odd reason to not play the game (especially when extra lives are largely meaningless, and if you're low on lives, the area before Grunty has about four of them - one in the tower window, and at least three on the Grunty's Furnace Fun board).

 

[PhantomShab]

In the winter, there's one under the ice water on the shore - it's about as far from the hole that you enter the water through as you can get, and the ice water drains your oxygen twice as fast as normal. I haven't tried to go for it, but it might be possible if you go into the water, enter Gnawty's home for air, get the life, go back to Gnawty's home for air, and exit the water the way that you came in.

That seems like a really minor gripe, though, and an odd reason to not play the game (especially when extra lives are largely meaningless, and if you're low on lives, the area before Grunty has about four of them - one in the tower window, and at least three on the Grunty's Furnace Fun board).

I remember being able to get that one even if it was cutting it close.

 

[Xelrog]

Here's an unpopular opinion. Granted, I'm not a Dragon Quest fan, but from the outside looking in, I don't mind that he's just called The Hero. In fact I kind of like it. It reaffirms the series' apparent status as the granddaddy of RPG's. Like, it's significant that if any series was going to get that title to themselves, it would be DQ.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Positive unpopular opinion: I'm glad all the characters have better recoveries and edge hogging is gone. It makes more characters viable and we get to see alot of matchups we wouldn't see otherwise. I consider this a step forward for the series.

Agreed. A KO via edgehogging is about as hype as an SD in my opinion and I'm glad the mechanic is gone.

 

[SmashBro99]

Stamina mode is for champions, Stock mode is for casual little girls.

Whats up with this baby**** staff haha, i posted an unpopular opinion in the unpopular opinions thread xD lawl

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In the winter, there's one under the ice water on the shore - it's about as far from the hole that you enter the water through as you can get, and the ice water drains your oxygen twice as fast as normal. I haven't tried to go for it, but it might be possible if you go into the water, enter Gnawty's home for air, get the life, go back to Gnawty's home for air, and exit the water the way that you came in.

That seems like a really minor gripe, though, and an odd reason to not play the game (especially when extra lives are largely meaningless, and if you're low on lives, the area before Grunty has about four of them - one in the tower window, and at least three on the Grunty's Furnace Fun board).

It's just an example but still, the water arbitrarily depleting twice as fast is dumb and if you died before going to that bit underwater, you need to reset the Switch that I believe is in the Autumn area, even if you're doing the 360 version. Another example is Stop N Swotch which I'll be fair to because that was due to something outside of Rare's control but rather Nintendo, Rusty Bucket Bay (The windows you can break look exactly like the ones that are just textures and the 64 version making you lose every note on death is easily the worst part here), the fact that you need to collect everything for a final boss that isn't objectively awful with randomized quiz answers the player wouldn't know to write down unless they already played the game and how you can collect all of the honey comb pieces but the last batch of them literally doesn't do anything despite every other batch of 6 giving you more health alongside invincible enemies that won't stop attacking you unless you go to one specific spot to initiate flight and try to ram into them without a reticle to help aim which makes it harder to be precise. Again, I don't give free passes to when games I like have bad design elements but for Banjo the only thing I felt was remotely worth a damn was a concept of one level which isn't even the first time it's happened. One may argue that the sequel may fix things but I know all about Rare sticking their heads up their asses by making worlds too bug with **** all to do, the polar opposite of DK64's problem and judging from what I heard, when Nuts and Bolts was still Banjo Threeie, they STILL tried to do huge worlds

 

[PhantomShab]

I guess you could always just take your own advice and ignore Banjo if his inclusion makes you so angry.

It's better than making gigantic posts about how having an iota of challenge is bad game design.

 

[Idon]

Guess I'll put one in since I've just been lurking this thread for a while.

I've grown a bit tired of characters relying on building, managing, and maintaining meters in order to use their strongest tools. It often feels like some characters get unecessary buffs when they're being beaten down and yet still charge meter and go into a form that makes them much more frustrating to deal with.

For some characters I can understand that there's a lore component to them, especially in the case of Hero, but regardless I hope future characters not just in this game's DLC, but in Smash in general, rely less on this mechanic.

 

[PhantomShab]

Yeah I especially can't stand how their gimmick meters can all fill up from taking damage. Add on to the fact that Cloud and Joker have moves completely dedicated to filling it up and it makes them revolve entirely around their gimmick.

One of the reasons I'm glad Banjo and Kazooie are looking to be more straightforward, well that and them not having a counter move too lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I guess you could always just take your own advice and ignore Banjo if his inclusion makes you so angry.

It's better than making gigantic posts about how having an iota of challenge is bad game design.

I'm talking about how I couldn't care the franchise and I'm elaborating on it. Instead of deliberately assuming I'm demanding a cake walk, how about you actually read? What's challenging about RNG that needs to be written down which a first time player wouldn't know to write down? What's challenging about not getting rewarded for collecting the final 6 honeycomb pieces? What's challenging about Santa Destroy being so barren? What's challenging about deliberately bad minigames being shoved into a game to go "Look how often bad minigames are shoved into a game?"

Can't believe I'm able to literally say "I even hate it when games I like pull this ****" yet apparantly it doesn't matter just like how me being surprised at Hero having the most views of any video on the official Smash channels is somehow just me trying to jab at Banjo.

 

[PhantomShab]

You should just ignore it if it bothers you so much. Look at how angry your wording is. That's what I'm concerned about.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You should just ignore it if it bothers you so much. Look at how angry your wording is. That's what I'm concerned about.

Good to know that not getting more health for getting 6 honeycomb pieces when you got more health as a reward for collecting 6 honeycomb pieces is actually good game design

 

[PhantomShab]

Good to know that not getting more health for getting 6 honeycomb pieces when you got more health as a reward for collecting 6 honeycomb pieces is actually good game design

Wow you're right Banjo-Kazooie is canceled now I guess.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly it's outright hilarious how much of a holy grail Banjo is. "Wow I found the direct as a whole disappointing" nets me people yelling that Banjo is the only reason I'd think that. Me saying "Goddamn Hero got a lot of excitement, more so than any other" gets people yelling at me that I'm trying to downplay Banjo. Then again at the same time Banjo fans can't even explain the charm of googly eyes and sex jokes or even correct me when I wrongfully said the franchise's lifesales were 1.8 million due to me having read a wrong source

 

[PhantomShab]

Honestly it's outright hilarious how much of a holy grail Banjo is. "Wow I found the direct as a whole disappointing" nets me people yelling that Banjo is the only reason I'd think that. Me saying "Goddamn Hero got a lot of excitement, more so than any other" gets people yelling at me that I'm trying to downplay Banjo. Then again at the same time Banjo fans can't even explain the charm of googly eyes and sex jokes or even correct me when I wrongfully said the franchise's lifesales were 1.8 million due to me having read a wrong source

I get it now.

You find the games offensive, don't you?

 

[Idon]

Guys, I don't want to disrupt your conversation, but at this point this conversation is leaning more towards unpopular gaming opinions than it is unpopular Smash opinions.

Though for what it's worth, I never did get into the Banjo craze so I can see where Gwen's coming from.

 

[PhantomShab]

Guys, I don't want to disrupt your conversation, but at this point this conversation is leaning more towards unpopular gaming opinions than it is unpopular Smash opinions.

Though for what it's worth, I never did get into the Banjo craze so I can see where Gwen's coming from.

What you mean we can't swim after that jiggy behind the propeller and fail to get it in Smash Ultimate?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I get it now.

You find the games offensive, don't you?

No. I just want to know what makes this one typical mascot platformer special because evidentally I can't figure it out. It looks like your typical 64 game to me, it pulls the same kind of jokes most cartoons did during the 90's, has very questionable design choices and I just don't get it. Nobody has been able to tell me what's so special about this one and I really want to know because again, I really couldn't care about anything but Click Clock Wood during my 3 different experiences with the game. It'd be nice if someone told me beyond "Oh I really liked it as a kid". Cause I see that about Gex and all Gex had going for it was the VA and all the references

 

[PhantomShab]

No. I just want to know what makes this one typical mascot platformer special because evidentally I can't figure it out. It looks like your typical 64 game to me, it pulls the same kind of jokes most cartoons did during the 90's, has very questionable design choices and I just don't get it. Nobody has been able to tell me what's so special about this one and I really want to know because again, I really couldn't care about anything but Click Clock Wood during my 3 different experiences with the game. It'd be nice if someone told me beyond "Oh I really liked it as a kid". Cause I see that about Gex and all Gex had going for it was the VA and all the references

Then stop trying to figure it out and just ignore it. It's amazing how much self awareness you lack when you tell me to stop getting angry and ignore Plant but then when we finally get one character in this pass that you don't like you go ****ting all over it and the people who made it and the people who wanted it. There's a reason the B-K games are looked on fondly while Bubsy, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, and Blinx aren't. The games were actually good in spite of whatever flaws they may have and Rare was putting out titles on the N64 that could match Nintendo's own in quality. No matter what anyone tells you won't be good enough for you anyway because you wanted to hate Banjo's inclusion right from the very beginning.

It's funny to get a character that still has me excited days after the reveal after being let down so hard while you've done nothing but screech about how awful it was that Banjo doesn't have some super gimmicky moveset that tries to reinvent the wheel in a roster with over 70 other movesets. I think Dragon Quest Guy looks like they just tossed Link and Robin into a blender and tacked on an RPG menu (get it cuz their from an RPG hahaha) but I haven't complained about it because I'm aware that there's only so much you can do with a sword and some spells before it just gets into "been there, done that" territory. I'm just glad Banjo and Kazooie look as faithful to the games as possible.

You don't like the games. So ****ing what? Plenty of people do, enough to finally get Banjo and Kazooie into Smash Bros. Do you see Bubsy or Awesome Possum getting in? I don't get how people like the Fire Emblem games but I can also just accept that they aren't for me. Maybe the next 2 characters will be swordsman with gimmick meters that you can get excited for.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

You don't like the games. So ****ing what? Plenty of people do, enough to finally get Banjo and Kazooie into Smash Bros.

At the end of the day this is seemingly what it came down to and that goes for other characters too. Plus the fact that bear and bird were finally deemed reliasble with Nintendo and Microsoft being chummy.

Although the bits and pieces of new BK merch released is intriguing...

Blinx isn't that bad!

 

[YoshiandToad]

Here's one:

I wish alts like Alph and the Koopalings were used MORE to include characters who fit other characters movesets.

For example I unironically think it'd have been pretty neat to cut half of Fox and half of Falco's alts and made Peppy and Slippy alts for them respectively, getting the full classic Starfox team in as a result.

Whilst Slippy could arguably bring something different to the cast using Starfox Guard as a basis I feel both characters would more likely just be Fox/Falco clones if they got in regardless. All of them technically have the same tech available, the same Arwing options and thus likely the same movesets, so why not?

Hell, I'd be willing to slice alts from 8 to 4 to squeeze a few more fitting characters in. I know their sizes may not be canon as is the case with Lemmy's size compared to Morton Jr, but a lot of sizes in Smash are all over the place.

 

[Megadoomer]

Here's one:

I wish alts like Alph and the Koopalings were used MORE to include characters who fit other characters movesets.

For example I unironically think it'd have been pretty neat to cut half of Fox and half of Falco's alts and made Peppy and Slippy alts for them respectively, getting the full classic Starfox team in as a result.

Whilst Slippy could arguably bring something different to the cast using Starfox Guard as a basis I feel both characters would more likely just be Fox/Falco clones if they got in regardless. All of them technically have the same tech available, the same Arwing options and thus likely the same movesets, so why not?

Hell, I'd be willing to slice alts from 8 to 4 to squeeze a few more fitting characters in. I know their sizes may not be canon as is the case with Lemmy's size compared to Morton Jr, but a lot of sizes in Smash are all over the place.

The problem with that is, to use Slippy and Peppy as examples, they'd have wildly different hitboxes (due to being much wider) and attack ranges compared to Fox and Falco, not to mention any statistical differences based on their source material. Maybe the statistical differences bit could be ignored, but unlike the Dragon Quest heroes or the Koopalings (seeing as the latter group uses the Koopa Clown Car for almost all of their attacks), Peppy and Slippy wouldn't fight in the exact same way as Fox and Falco. (Could you imagine Slippy using Falco's aerial attacks? It would look hilarious, but it wouldn't fit the character at all)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Then stop trying to figure it out and just ignore it. It's amazing how much self awareness you lack when you tell me to stop getting angry and ignore Plant but then when we finally get one character in this pass that you don't like you go ****ting all over it and the people who made it and the people who wanted it. There's a reason the B-K games are looked on fondly while Bubsy, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, and Blinx aren't. The games were actually good in spite of whatever flaws they may have and Rare was putting out titles on the N64 that could match Nintendo's own in quality. No matter what anyone tells you won't be good enough for you anyway because you wanted to hate Banjo's inclusion right from the very beginning.

It's funny to get a character that still has me excited days after the reveal after being let down so hard while you've done nothing but screech about how awful it was that Banjo doesn't have some super gimmicky moveset that tries to reinvent the wheel in a roster with over 70 other movesets. I think Dragon Quest Guy looks like they just tossed Link and Robin into a blender and tacked on an RPG menu (get it cuz their from an RPG hahaha) but I haven't complained about it because I'm aware that there's only so much you can do with a sword and some spells before it just gets into "been there, done that" territory. I'm just glad Banjo and Kazooie look as faithful to the games as possible.

You don't like the games. So ****ing what? Plenty of people do, enough to finally get Banjo and Kazooie into Smash Bros. Do you see Bubsy or Awesome Possum getting in? I don't get how people like the Fire Emblem games but I can also just accept that they aren't for me. Maybe the next 2 characters will be swordsman with gimmick meters that you can get excited for.

Difference is that not only were you doing it 6 months after the fact but I'm also asking what people enjoy about it because I genuinely want to know why people like it so I can have another perspective but all I hear is "Oh it's charming!" Which is pretty much "It's like Dark Souls!" When it comes to not actually explaining stuff. I'm not screeching that Banjo doesn't have a gimmick at all. I just feel he looks incredibly bland as the animations and sound design seem rather lacking, there's nothing that looks super satisfying to land. Banjo isn't unique in this regard to me and there are other characters in the game that lack oomph in their movesets for me. I was hella disappointed by K.Rool's trailer as it didn't focus on the cool Juggernaut-esque mechanic or the better animations. Sound and animation is key for fighting games and if I condemned MvCI for being lacking in that department I'm gonna condemn the Smash characters which have this too.

 

[Xelrog]

Difference is that not only were you doing it 6 months after the fact but I'm also asking what people enjoy about it because I genuinely want to know why people like it so I can have another perspective

Why do you care?

I hated Banjo's games and I'm super happy he's in the game. It makes a lot of other people happy, and he satisfies three things I like in a character: cartoony (not anime swordsman), platforming rep, and not gimmick reliant.

It sounds to me like you don't really understand yourself why you're mad and you need to step back, breathe, and take a day or two off of this thread for perspective.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why do you care?

I hated Banjo's games and I'm super happy he's in the game. It makes a lot of other people happy, and he satisfies three things I like in a character: cartoony (not anime swordsman), platforming rep, and not gimmick reliant.

It sounds to me like you don't really understand yourself why you're mad and you need to step back, breathe, and take a day or two off of this thread for perspective.

I want to know a different perspective but as God says in the new Testament, "Thou shall not tell Gwen what thy sees in Banjo Kazooie". I don't see what people like in it, so naturally, I want to know what exactly people like it cause all I see is "teehee they gave the water googly eyes". I don't see what's so unreasonable when even asking nicely never gets me any results

 

[NuzTheMonkey]

I just want to know how people can say, in good faith, that it's better than Super Mario 64.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I just want to know how people can say, in good faith, that it's better than Super Mario 64.

I'm not gonna do that, that game aged like milk as far as I'm concerned


Also we could easily have more sword users judging by the fact that Shulk is the closest to an Iaijustu user. People love to say "There's only so many ways to swing a sword!" Yet that's never a problem for punches and kicks. Especially as there are so many kinds of swords that aren't standard swords or rapiers

 

[Xelrog]

It's not hard to understand. They like it because they grew up with it. It's nostalgia and not much else.

 

[PhantomShab]

Blinx isn't that bad!

I really wouldn't know since I've never played it. I only mentioned Blinx because Gwen brought him up first. Maybe I can watch an LP of it since that's apparently as good as actually playing it.

Difference is that not only were you doing it 6 months after the fact but I'm also asking what people enjoy about it because I genuinely want to know why people like it so I can have another perspective but all I hear is "Oh it's charming!" Which is pretty much "It's like Dark Souls!" When it comes to not actually explaining stuff. I'm not screeching that Banjo doesn't have a gimmick at all. I just feel he looks incredibly bland as the animations and sound design seem rather lacking, there's nothing that looks super satisfying to land. Banjo isn't unique in this regard to me and there are other characters in the game that lack oomph in their movesets for me. I was hella disappointed by K.Rool's trailer as it didn't focus on the cool Juggernaut-esque mechanic or the better animations. Sound and animation is key for fighting games and if I condemned MvCI for being lacking in that department I'm gonna condemn the Smash characters which have this too.

So what if it's been 6 months? Are you suddenly going to warm up to Banjo and Kazooie's inclusion and figure out what people like about their games after 6 months? Nobody is obligated to write you a damn essay on why they enjoy a video game just because you don't enjoy it. When I saw Hero's trailer I found myself thinking "lol that's literally just Link's dash attack" and "lol that's literally just Arc Thunder but with a fireball instead" but from reading this thread you'd think he was doing the coolest never before seen stuff in his trailer.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I just want to know how people can say, in good faith, that it's better than Super Mario 64.

I do remember seeing a video that suggests that Banjo-Kazooie is better than Super Mario 64. But it's important to remember that Super Mario 64 came first, and you only needed 70/120 Stars to access Bowser in the Sky. Compare that to Banjo-Kazooie, where you need 94/100 Jiggies, AND 810/900 Music Notes, if you want to reach Gruntilda for the final battle.

Also, Super Mario 64 allows you to replay (almost) every Star and boss fight. Banjo-Kazooie doesn't give you that kind of luxury.

 

[UserKev]

I just want to know how people can say, in good faith, that it's better than Super Mario 64.

Super Mario 64 is still extremely magical. The game may not have aged well but its still tolerable and distractive.

 

[NuzTheMonkey]

Super Mario 64 is still extremely magical. The game may not have aged well but its still tolerable and distractive.

I think the game has aged fine, but that's likely my nostalgia talking. Mario is still so fluid and fun to control, and he properly responds to your controls, something current triple A studios struggle with to this day. The movement options, the level design, it's all just beautiful. I think the recent review by videogamedunkey on the game perfectly sums up my thoughts on it.