Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

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KayEf

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I've never played Persona or DQ, but I absolutely love how they're included! (My brother doesn't like Joker's inclusion due to him not being on a Nintendo console, same went for Snake and Cloud.)
Anyway, I was most psyched for Banjo & Kazooie because I, myself, grew up with them. Banjo-Tooie being my favorite of the games. But these aren't unpopular enough opinions. My actual unpopular opinion is the fact that some people are referring to banjo fans as being "nostalgic manchildren in their late 20s or early 30s".
Yes, I will be one of the first to admit, half of the reasoning for my want of Banjo in smash is because of nostalgia. But you can't classify that it's only that age range. I'm 17 and I freaked the **** out the first time I saw that Jiggy bounce by. The other half of my reasoning for my want of Banjo's inclusion is that the games he was in were just really, REALLY good! He was one of the platforming icons of the N64 era and was put up in the ranks of Mario, DK, Rayman, etc.

My opinions aside, it's fine that there are those who don't care about Banjo. Heck, it's fine if there are people who don't WANT Banjo! But please don't call him uninspired, or not deserving of his spot in the line-up. At this point, the rest of the DLC characters don't matter either. I got my bear and bird, and I'm happy.

Although, Porky would still be an AMAZING addition!!!
 
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DMTN

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- The prospect of Erdrick didn't excite me at all, but now that I've seen him in action, I'm actually really impressed. I already like him better than Joker.
- I maintain that Smash Ultimate doesn't have a single bad or undeserving newcomer.
- That being said, Isabelle is the weakest addition so far. I agree with her being there, but being a semi-clone and a low tier is an unfortunate combination.
- I'm really glad that Banjo seems to be a more standard character. I'm not a big fan of characters that revolve around gimmicks.
 

Wyoming

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I've never played Persona or DQ, but I absolutely love how they're included! (My brother doesn't like Joker's inclusion due to him not being on a Nintendo console, same went for Snake and Cloud.)
Anyway, I was most psyched for Banjo & Kazooie because I, myself, grew up with them. Banjo-Tooie being my favorite of the games. But these aren't unpopular enough opinions. My actual unpopular opinion is the fact that some people are referring to banjo fans as being "nostalgic manchildren in their late 20s or early 30s".
Yes, I will be one of the first to admit, half of the reasoning for my want of Banjo in smash is because of nostalgia. But you can't classify that it's only that age range. I'm 17 and I freaked the **** out the first time I saw that Jiggy bounce by. The other half of my reasoning for my want of Banjo's inclusion is that the games he was in were just really, REALLY good! He was one of the platforming icons of the N64 era and was put up in the ranks of Mario, DK, Rayman, etc.

My opinions aside, it's fine that there are those who don't care about Banjo. Heck, it's fine if there are people who don't WANT Banjo! But please don't call him uninspired, or not deserving of his spot in the line-up. At this point, the rest of the DLC characters don't matter either. I got my bear and bird, and I'm happy.

Although, Porky would still be an AMAZING addition!!!
But Joker and Snake are on Nintendo consoles...
 
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Sunredo

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Not sure if this is unpopular.

While I'm happy this character is in, their name as "The Hero" is really dumb, generic and forgettable. I'm sure there's a reason why their named that, but it likely won't change my mind.

I'm just calling them Erdrick or Eleven.
As I'm sure most people on this website are aware; Hero's referred to as "Yuusha" which means "Brave" and implies Heroism. Yuusha itself is a much more powerful and distinctive word compared to it's English counterparts Brave and Hero.
Shoulda called him the Dragon Warrior or each of them their canonical names.
Those would of been way better.

It would actually let you identify who they are...
"The Hero" is also way too broad.
Half the roster are hero's for goodness sake.
While clever, DQ already has a Warrior class which is different from the Hero class. It could lead to some confusion in regards to what the main character is. Not only that, the antagonist of the game is the Dragon Lord so why would the Hero side with him? The only reason why the game was called that back then was because D&D had an expansion called "Dragon Quest" and Nintendo's localization team didn't want any conflicts regarding copyright.
 

PeridotGX

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Something about the way Banjo looks in gameplay looks off. I can't put my finger on what it, and it isn't that big of a deal, but nobody seems to feel the same.
 

Dee Dude

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As someone who actively advocates for fan requests....I actually would not mind in the slightest if the last two DLC characters were complete surprises.

Banjo was my most wanted 3rd party of all time so I’m content and happy with whoever comes next as long as they aren’t a blatant shill pick.
 
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Cosmic77

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Something about the way Banjo looks in gameplay looks off. I can't put my finger on what it, and it isn't that big of a deal, but nobody seems to feel the same.
It's probably just you seeing their 3D designs in HD. Banjo and Kazooie have this really weird exaggerated cartoony style that doesn't really match many other characters' design. Both of their eyes have large irises and pupils, Banjo has a really long curved snout, and some of their body proportions like the Banjo's toes and Kazooie's beak have sharp polygonal shapes.

It's understandable, given how they were created by a Western studio, but I feel like it clashes really badly with the rest of the roster, even the other cartoony characters.
 

Xelrog

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I think he fits in perfectly, stylistically. I also don't think people who weren't around in the N64 era understand just how much a face of the console Banjo was.

It's a lot like Tony Hawk, I think. The THPS series hasn't done much of anything in the past 10+ years, but in its heyday? It was EVERYWHERE. Like, top ****, king of video game mountain, breaking sales records, winning countless awards. It's really hard to imagine the cultural impact without having been there. FF7 was very similar to Banjo and Tony in that way, but it was part of a franchise with other parts still remembered. If FF7 had been exactly the game it was, but a standalone title unrelated to an existing series, it would be in a similar boat as Banjo right now.

"Who's this Cloud idiot? He only had one game like 20 years ago. It couldn't have mattered that much."
 

G-Man0324

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I think they should remove the hitbox of Inkling's up B but increase recovery distance.
I’m not saying you’re wrong for thinking this, but Inkling’s up B already travels some of the most distance for a recovery move in the game, so buffing an already amazing recovery, I think, would be weird. But the removal of the hit box could be interesting.
 

slrigeigdew

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I'm mixed about keeping the two fighters as complete surprises. On one hand **** leakers. If Nintendo sent a C&D to every credible leaker I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

On the other hand I'll be 100% honest if some admin on ResetEra said "Been awhile since we saw [Character I actually want] in anything. Hope we're in for a smashing good time." I'd ****ing lose my **** for days.

Anyone else also on the fence about this or are you strongly in one camp or the other?
 

ArcticKat

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I’ve never cared about Banjo Kazooie. I stayed away from the game because collect-a-thon games really bore me.
… Seeing that the character will be in Smash due to such high demand confuses me. It confuses me as much as when people started clamouring to get Betty White to host Saturday Night Live several years ago….
It’s so random, so arbitrary. I don’t get it.
 

Lenidem

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I’ve never cared about Banjo Kazooie. I stayed away from the game because collect-a-thon games really bore me.
… Seeing that the character will be in Smash due to such high demand confuses me. It confuses me as much as when people started clamouring to get Betty White to host Saturday Night Live several years ago….
It’s so random, so arbitrary. I don’t get it.
It's not more ''random'' or ''arbitrary'' than half the roster.
 

SmashBro99

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Imagine thinking Banjo-Kazooie's inclusion is random or arbitrary when he was the most requested character since melee lol.

Sounds like a Steve fan to me.

Anyway...Waluigi will be the final dlc character.

Edit: Calling someone a Steve fan is flaming? grow up kiddies ;)
 
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ArcticKat

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… … Er…
If you’d read my previous post, what I called random/arbitrary was NOT that Banjo Kazooie was added — what baffles me is WHY people requested the character so much.
… I’m sorry I’m not super excited, but while I grew up with the NES, SNES, and N64, Banjo Kazooie was never a part of my life. And I just groan whenever people treat the game as if it was a staple of EVERYONE’S N64 collection. These past few years of new Smash Bros. character speculations just leave me viewing Banjo Kazooie fans as really arrogant.
 
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what baffles me is WHY people requested the character so much.
And I just groan whenever people treat the game as if it was a staple of EVERYONE’S N64 collection. These past few years of new Smash Bros. character speculations just leave me viewing Banjo Kazooie fans as really arrogant.
People liked the games and character.
Simple as that.

And of-course those games aren't MUCH HAVES for all gamers, the internet over-exaggerates on everything, it's very common.
 

Gimmick-Hater

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I wasn't impressed by the DQ Hero. His base move-set didn't look all that interesting, with it mostly just being generic sword swipes. Also, lot of his animations seemed really reminiscent of Link's (I think that I straight up saw "The Hero" use Smash 4 Link's dash-attack), and he even has Link's shield gimmick.

The menu thing is... OK. It didn't really standout to me. Especially when they started going into the actually abilities it grants. I couldn't help, but role my eyes when I saw another character with a reflector.

Also, I'm personally of the belief that the last really big third-party character they could add is Scorpion.
 

Garteam

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I'm honestly more excited for Hero than Banjo. While I understand the momentous feeling some have of Banjo finally returning to a Nintendo console, I think having the Grandpappy of the JRPG join Smash is an even bigger deal. Plus, I just think Hero looks more unique than Banjo as a fighter.

Also, not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or what, but I honestly believe Leon is the new forerunner for the most likely DLC character. He just seems to check off all the right boxes.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I'm mixed about keeping the two fighters as complete surprises. On one hand **** leakers. If Nintendo sent a C&D to every credible leaker I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

On the other hand I'll be 100% honest if some admin on ResetEra said "Been awhile since we saw [Character I actually want] in anything. Hope we're in for a smashing good time." I'd ****ing lose my **** for days.

Anyone else also on the fence about this or are you strongly in one camp or the other?
Actually nobody seems to have gotten a C&D, the leaker claiming she did get one showed the email and quickly deleted it after people realized there were details that didn't make sense such as the lawyer being Canadian despite the person being American and the lawyer saying "Nintendo" and not "Nintendo Ltd"
I wasn't impressed by the DQ Hero. His base move-set didn't look all that interesting, with it mostly just being generic sword swipes. Also, lot of his animations seemed really reminiscent of Link's (I think that I straight up saw "The Hero" use Smash 4 Link's dash-attack), and he even has Link's shield gimmick.

The menu thing is... OK. It didn't really standout to me. Especially when they started going into the actually abilities it grants. I couldn't help, but role my eyes when I saw another character with a reflector.

Also, I'm personally of the belief that the last really big third-party character they could add is Scorpion.
Actually Hero's reflector is very unique. If you look closely you see that they move during it, meaning it's not a traditional reflector but more of s Franklin Badge. RIP Mega Man's match up
 

slrigeigdew

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Actually nobody seems to have gotten a C&D, the leaker claiming she did get one showed the email and quickly deleted it after people realized there were details that didn't make sense such as the lawyer being Canadian despite the person being American and the lawyer saying "Nintendo" and not "Nintendo Ltd"

Actually Hero's reflector is very unique. If you look closely you see that they move during it, meaning it's not a traditional reflector but more of s Franklin Badge. RIP Mega Man's match up
Ah I didn't know that, thanks for informing me. I still hope that atleast one of the next dlc fighters is still a surprise

Also LOL at the Hero's Reflect move.

People: Joker's counter is so annoying. It lasts forever and it's hard to punish.

DQ Hero: Hold my drink.
 
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Not sure if this is unpopular.

While I'm happy this character is in, their name as "The Hero" is really dumb, generic and forgettable. I'm sure there's a reason why their named that, but it likely won't change my mind.

I'm just calling them Erdrick or Eleven.
I'm pretty sure their name is just "The Hero" so it can fit all four fighters without spoiling their real names (because IIRC their real names are not revealed ntil later in the game).
I have the same definition of iconic as you and I would say that Banjo is about as recognizable to middle America as Cloud, honestly. Maybe even Ryu. The only suggestion I've seen of old people knowing Street Fighter exists is one Family Guy reference, whatever that's worth.
Wat.

There has not been a new Banjo-Kazooie game since 2008. Their latest installation was part of a remake in 2015. There's a reason people used the 'dead character" argument against them. Ryu on the other hand is the face of the world's largest fighting game series. I don't understand how you can possible compare those 2.
That being said, Isabelle is the weakest addition so far. I agree with her being there, but being a semi-clone and a low tier is an unfortunate combination.
This. I don't understand Isabelle's inclusion at all. It looks like they wanted her both to be unique but also to advertise the new Animal Crossing (2020 release date....damn) and ended up recycling half of Villager's moveset. I find her to be the biggest disappointment of a newcomer so far.
I'm mixed about keeping the two fighters as complete surprises. On one hand **** leakers. If Nintendo sent a C&D to every credible leaker I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

On the other hand I'll be 100% honest if some admin on ResetEra said "Been awhile since we saw [Character I actually want] in anything. Hope we're in for a smashing good time." I'd ****ing lose my **** for days.

Anyone else also on the fence about this or are you strongly in one camp or the other?
Certainly me. If a hundred leakers started pointing their fingers at Master Chief I wouldn't bat an eye, but if Phill Spencer used the words "Halo" and "Smash" in the same sentence I would **** a brick.
… … Er…
If you’d read my previous post, what I called random/arbitrary was NOT that Banjo Kazooie was added — what baffles me is WHY people requested the character so much.
… I’m sorry I’m not super excited, but while I grew up with the NES, SNES, and N64, Banjo Kazooie was never a part of my life. And I just groan whenever people treat the game as if it was a staple of EVERYONE’S N64 collection. These past few years of new Smash Bros. character speculations just leave me viewing Banjo Kazooie fans as really arrogant.
It's OK that they weren't part of your life growing up but they were a part of others'. Lot's of people grew up playing Banjo-Kazooie and the game holds a special place in their hearts. They had a serious backing for nostalgia. Not to mention their original game is considered basically on par with Mario 64.

Some of my unpopular opinions:
-Ganondorf does not need to be nerfed in any way. Neither does King K. Rool.
-R.O.B., Wario, and Yoshi are top tiers.
-If Bowser got his old up throw back he would also be a high tier.
-Roy, Lucina, and Wold are still due for serious nerfing. 3.1 didn't do enough to any of them.

Here's my most unpopular:
Ultimate's tier gap is worse than Brawl's. Hands down. With nearly 80 fighters in this game it's no surprise that some can overpower others easily but as of right now I think Brawl Meta Knight has met his match. Of course, all matches are 95% skill in any fighting game, but if you get two equally skilled players and have one pick Lucina and the other pick Kirby I think we can imagine who is going to win the majority of the matches. The reason I say the tier gap is so bad is because today's low tiers (:ultkrool::ultkirby::ultbowserjr::ultlittlemac: to name a few) have next to no tournament data compared to other fighters like :ultwolf::ultlucina::ultroy::ultpikachu::ultsnake::ultrob::ultike::ultinkling::ultpeach::ultpalutena:. It's really hard to find enough matchup data between some of these characters as it currently stands to say that the tier gap isn't atrocious.

I know that the game is only a little over six months old but even then the game's R&D has gone through several balance patches that often miss requested nerfs or buffs. They immediately jumped the gun on Meta Knight and King K. Rool early in the game but it took them almost six months to do anything about :ultlucina::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultolimar::ultpichu: and :ultpichu: was the only one who received serious nerfs. They have still done nothing about :ultroy::ultpokemontrainer::ultpikachu:. It took them the same amount of time to finally try to buff :ultlittlemac::ultbowserjr::ultken::ultdiddy: but we are still waiting on serious buffs for fighters like :ultkirby::ultkrool::ultrobin::ultsheik: to come. The design philosophy that they want Smash to be casual oriented is the reason why the fighter changes are so inconsistent and it's resulting in some of the fighters in this game just being so many times better than others. I'm not going to go through each and every reason why I think some fighters are overpowered and others are underpowered but you probably get the idea. If I had to put fighters in the SS rank I can easily think of several and if I had to put fighters in the G or god forbid an H tier I can also think of several.

Now I know a lot of people will disagree with me on several points but his is just my viewpoint of the game's current balance. I'm not writing this because I'm salty or because I want the game to look bad it's just because I genuinely think that Ultimate's balancing is terrible and I wish R&D would look into what the more experienced and competitive audience has to say rather than the casuals. I'm not advocating for nerf culture, I just wish they'd buff the weaker fighters, but if they're so adamant on not doing that than nerfs are the next solution. /SPOILER]
 
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Grie

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Unpopular opinion time. If nerf culture continues the way it is, ultimate is going to drop like brick and die. Not saying this as a melee elitist (I don’t really like melee that much) but as someone who wishes that the game’s meta evolves further with as few changes as possible to the current version (outside of buffs to terrible characters).
 

Cutie Gwen

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Not easy to think about whenever you hear that whiffing a grab leaves you wide open to punishment. But obviously, that doesn't stop the CPU from trying to shield-grab you at every opportunity.
By that logic it isn't easy to think about attacking because whiffing an attack can leave you open
 

ze9

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In a perverse way it is merely irony. Banjo fans would often aggressively downplay everyone else.

Every character has detractors. Just enjoy him.
It's not irony, it's just saltiness.
For my generation, the inclusions of characters like Megaman or Pit were just as random as Banjo feels for the newer one.
Though they were made with love, their presence clearly had some merit, and they made a lot of people happy. So, I never heard anyone complain.
Banjo detractors just like being contrarians. Or maybe it's because the spots for DLC are limited and there's a more evident feeling of competition, but I think people who complain about Banjo were probably very happy with Joker, so... If everyone gets something, where's the problem?
 
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Wyoming

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Alternatively: they do not care for the character. And that's ok. Not everyone has the same experiences.

I played the games and his reveal I found charming, but I can't say he excites me.

Now Spiral Mountain on the other hand...
 

ze9

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Not caring for a character is perfectly fine. And in a roster his big, it's inevitable.
Throwing tantrums or criticizing the freaking reveal trailer is just petty, though.

At least Ultimate's newcomers have been very well balanced between the different time periods.
If you were a 90's gamer, Smash 4 didn't have **** for you. Just Pac-man and Cloud.
 
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osby

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At least Ultimate's newcomers have been very well balanced between the different time periods.
If you were a 90's gamer, Smash 4 didn't have **** for you. Just Pac-man and Cloud.
If you exclude Eleven's alts, only 2000s newcomer in Ultimate is Dark Samus, an echo. I wouldn't call it exactly well-balanced.
 
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Wyoming

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Not caring for a character is perfectly fine. And in a roster his big, it's inevitable.
Throwing tantrums or criticizing the freaking reveal trailer is just petty, though.

At least Ultimate's newcomers have been very well balanced between the different time periods.
If you were a 90's gamer, Smash 4 didn't have **** for you. Just Pac-man and Cloud.
Mega Man, Ryu, Little Mac, and technically Mewtwo. Duck Hunt is in a grey area but I am sure he effected 90s people too.

Palutena also but yeah only people in the 2010s will have any affectuation for her.
 
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ze9

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Mega Man, Ryu, Little Mac, and technically Mewtwo. Duck Hunt is in a grey area but I am sure he effected 90s people too.

Palutena also but yeah only people in the 2010s will have any affectuation for her.
Yeah, true. Thing is, they were also almost all 3rd party. The Nintendo side of things was very dry.

If you exclude Eleven's alts, only 2000s newcomer in Ultimate is Dark Samus, an echo. I wouldn't call it exactly well-balanced.
Ah, that's true. To be honest, I didn't even notice that. But there's nobody left from that era that would be comparable to what Banjo is for '90s Nintendo gamers.
 

osby

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Ah, that's true. To be honest, I didn't even notice that. But there's nobody left from that era that would be comparable to what Banjo is for '90s Nintendo gamers.
They don't need to be. But considering just how many 90s characters we have, most complaints about the lack of balance on this subject feel really biased.
 

Cosmic77

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Here's all the characters in chronological order, minus Hero and Banjo.

:ultgnw::ultpacman::ultmario::ultdk::ultluigi::ultlittlemac::ultduckhunt::ulticeclimbers::ultrob::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultpiranha::ultlink::ultzelda::ultsamus::ultridley::ultsimon::ultpit::ultpalutena::ultsnake::ultryu::ultken::ultmegaman::ultdaisy::ultmarth::ultdoc::ultyoshi::ultfalcon::ultsonic::ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultwario::ultfox::ultfalco::ultmetaknight::ultrichter::ultness::ultdiddy::ultkrool::ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultsquirtle::ultivysaur::ultcharizard::ultcloud::ultwolf::ultsheik::ultyounglink::ultganondorf::ultpichu::ultvillager::ultolimar::ultroy::ultbowserjr::ulttoonlink::ultzss::ultdarksamus::ultike::ultlucas::ultlucario::ultmiifighters::ultrosalina::ultwiifittrainer::ultbayonetta::ultshulk::ultdarkpit::ultrobin::ultlucina::ultchrom::ultisabelle::ultgreninja::ultinkling::ultcorrin::ultjoker::ultincineroar:

So as you can see, the people who grew up in the 90's are definitely being taken care of (starts at Marth and ends at Pichu).

The 2000's are decent. Not as many characters, but there's a lot of variety to compensate for that (starts at Villager and ends at Shulk).

The current decade is what's really getting the short end of the stick. In addition to being the decade with the lowest number of reps, the variety sucks. In fact, 6/11 characters from 2010 onward are from either Pokemon or FE (starts at Dark Pit).



Something interesting for us to look at. Just because we aren't getting as many modern characters though doesn't necessarily mean the new generation of gamers are being ignored. There's plenty of older video game characters who are extremely popular with younger people.

Still, if you're looking at this by age alone, I don't think you can make the argument that anyone before 2000 isn't being acknowledged.
 
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