Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

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Cutie Gwen

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I really wouldn't know since I've never played it. I only mentioned Blinx because Gwen brought him up first. Maybe I can watch an LP of it since that's apparently as good as actually playing it.


So what if it's been 6 months? Are you suddenly going to warm up to Banjo and Kazooie's inclusion and figure out what people like about their games after 6 months? Nobody is obligated to write you a damn essay on why they enjoy a video game just because you don't enjoy it. When I saw Hero's trailer I found myself thinking "lol that's literally just Link's dash attack" and "lol that's literally just Arc Thunder but with a fireball instead" but from reading this thread you'd think he was doing the coolest never before seen stuff in his trailer.
Considering I warmed up to Ryu and Zero Suit Samus yes I may indeed warm up to Banjo by then


Ok but Hero actually did do moves nobody else in Smash has
 

Cosmic77

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This post involves Banjo's moveset.

I haven't seen everything, so before you lash out, keep in mind that I'm just going off what I've seen so far. I've been wrong plenty of times.

Personally, I think we're looking at a low mid-tier character at best. All of his specials resemble moves from existing characters, and if we're to assume they'll function in a similar way, they ain't gonna be much help. Egg Shot and Bregull Blaster (presumably their neutral special) are probably the most useful of the four. Resembles Mega Man's Mega Buster shots, so at least they'll be able to attack from a fair distance. Wonderwing (side special) looks like a copy of Charizard's Flare Blitz, which needless to say, isn't a very good move to begin with. Grenade Egg is essentially one of Link's bombs. It could be useful, but if you know how to deal with Link, Banjo shouldn't be too far from that. And then we have Shock Spring Jump, which is just another generic recovery move. Doesn't seem to be an attack.

The rest of his moveset might be able to compensate for the specials, but the ones we've seen so far don't look too promising. I think Banjo suffers from the same thing K. Rool did, in that Sakurai tried too hard to copy the games for a nostalgic moveset instead of getting creative and making something more practical.
 

Cutie Gwen

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This post involves Banjo's moveset.

I haven't seen everything, so before you lash out, keep in mind that I'm just going off what I've seen so far. I've been wrong plenty of times.

Personally, I think we're looking at a low mid-tier character at best. All of his specials resemble moves from existing characters, and if we're to assume they'll function in a similar way, they ain't gonna be much help. Egg Shot and Bregull Blaster (presumably their neutral special) are probably the most useful of the four. Resembles Mega Man's Mega Buster shots, so at least they'll be able to attack from a fair distance. Wonderwing (side special) looks like a copy of Charizard's Flare Blitz, which needless to say, isn't a very good move to begin with. Grenade Egg is essentially one of Link's bombs. It could be useful, but if you know how to deal with Link, Banjo shouldn't be too far from that. And then we have Shock Spring Jump, which is just another generic recovery move. Doesn't seem to be an attack.

The rest of his moveset might be able to compensate for the specials, but the ones we've seen so far don't look too promising. I think Banjo suffers from the same thing K. Rool did, in that Sakurai tried too hard to copy the games for a nostalgic moveset instead of getting creative and making something more practical.
Wonderwing really doesn't seem like Flare Blitz. Though if the move does have armour or worse, straight up invincibilty, expect hard ass nerfs like how K.Rool and Mac got nerfed because people with bad fundamentals couldn't handle it. Also what I feel will break the character is if Kazooie has a hurtbox
 

UserKev

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Eh?

Shadow Queen would be an amazing boss for Smash.
Personally, I don't actually like alt customs. Only a selective few really draw me to them that actually make sense, pink sweat suit Little Mac, ponytail Peach.
I don't like Smash Run.
 

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Eh?

Shadow Queen would be an amazing boss for Smash.
Personally, I don't actually like alt customs. Only a selective few really draw me to them that actually make sense, pink sweat suit Little Mac, ponytail Peach.
I don't like Smash Run.
Eh?

Shadow Queen would be an amazing boss for Smash.
Personally, I don't actually like alt customs. Only a selective few really draw me to them that actually make sense, pink sweat suit Little Mac, ponytail Peach.
I don't like Smash Run.
Those are alt colors.

Alt costumes, as in ones that change the whole model of the character like Mac's hoodie or Ike's age, I think, are ones people enjoy.
 
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Wonderwing really doesn't seem like Flare Blitz. Though if the move does have armour or worse, straight up invincibilty, expect hard *** nerfs like how K.Rool and Mac got nerfed because people with bad fundamentals couldn't handle it. Also what I feel will break the character is if Kazooie has a hurtbox
The move seems to trade power for utility compared to Flare Blitz; it didn't knock Jr. very far in the clip, but it has super armour/invulnerability to blow through hazards and will make his recovery very hard to challenge unless you knock him low. Shock Spring Jump's lack of helplessness also gives it use as an extra mobility tool to press a juggle or mix up his disadvantage, beyond recovery.

Judging viability from just four moves is foolhardy, especially when your only knock against one of them is "it can be played around" which is possible with any move. And if you're going to argue for big concessions in the name of viability, may as well go all the way and say don't include any character that isn't fast or can't fill the screen the projectiles.
 
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Heres another character suggestion i dont get, Toad. Waluigi is a better fit to be in smash than Toad by a landslide. Since Toad's debut he has been nothing but a background/side character. Heres his track record:

Only told Mario that the princess is in another castle.

Was only playable because there werent any characters to fill the fourth slot so he was by default and not importance. Not to mention thats a game thats a reskin of another game doki doki panic

Handed out items

Background character in every 3d Mario barring 3d world

Is only a playable character in nsmb due to the fact that hes so unremarkable that he can copy Mario's most basic attacks.

He's even a background/side character in half of the sports games.

I wouldnt even call Captain Toads game an accomplishment since its a bogged down version of Mario's gameplay and a simple puzzle game.

Toad doesnt hold a candle to Waluigi.
 
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Xelrog

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Heres another character suggestion i dont get, Toad. Waluigi is a better fit to be in smash than Toad by a landslide. Since Toad's debut he has been nothing but a background/side character. Heres his track record:

Only told Mario that the princess is in another castle.

Was only playable because there werent any characters to fill the fourth slot so he was by default and not importance. Not to mention thats a game that

Handed out items

Background character in every 3d Mario barring 3d world

Is only a playable character in nsmb due to the fact that hes so unremarkable that he can copy Mario's most basic attacks.

He's even a background/side character in half of the sports games.

I wouldnt even call Captain Toads game an accomplishment since its a bogged down version of Mario's gameplay and a simple puzzle game.

Toad doesnt hold a candle to Waluigi.
Not to say I don't support Waluigi, but that one time Toad was playable in a main game is one more time than Waluigi has been.

I can see the argument for both, and I think they're both comparable in relevance. That said, I've never really felt that anything was missing from a game I couldn't play as Toad in. He also has even less to draw from for a moveset than Waluigi does. At least Waluigi has a personality.
 

UserKev

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Those are alt colors.

Alt costumes, as in ones that change the whole model of the character like Mac's hoodie or Ike's age, I think, are ones people enjoy.
Um, are you misreading my posts? Mario's American alt custom is absolutely terrible. More good examples of alts I can't stand are in Project M.

I don't want to see Mr. L, Fierce Deity Link or Dry Bowser, etc. Dark Link, trainer cap Pikachu and Meta Ridley are brilliant.
 

Xelrog

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Um, are you misreading my posts? Mario's American alt custom is absolutely terrible. More good examples of alts I can't stand are in Project M.

I don't want to see Mr. L, Fierce Deity Link or Dry Bowser, etc. Dark Link, trainer cap Pikachu and Meta Ridley are brilliant.
I don't understand the difference between the things you're describing.

I like Amerio and all of the alts that are more effort than a simple palette swap, personally. All Dedede's are great because the sash changes. It gives each one personality.
 
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Not to say I don't support Waluigi, but that one time Toad was playable in a main game is one more time than Waluigi has been.
A Mario character's importance isnt tied to whether they appear in a main game or not, its the important roles they have. Story wise the main games and spin offs ( sport and party games that is ) are one and the same. There really isnt alot to the repeated story lines of plumber saves princess from the big bad monster.

Daisy isnt equal to Wario or Rosalina because she also debut in a main game. Wario's role as a boss got him his own line of games and he was immediately part of the Mario cast, Daisy only ripped off Peach's role one time and she rotted in irrelevancy until she was used as a doubles partner for Peach, the same role you give Waluigi flak for. Rosalina's role in Galaxy got her in 3d world and smash with her own trailer, moveset and stage, Daisy's inclusion in smash is as a carbon copy of Peach and her trailer was used as the prime example that echos dont take any time or effort.

Im not trying to diss Daisy but the point im makin is that she got her popularity from the spin offs. 90% of Daisy fans werent born when her game came around and the 10% definitely werent her fans because of Super Mario Land.

So i dont see how Toad being playable in a platformer makes him important or less of a side character. Follwing that logic all that means is that hes piggybacking off of Mario's succes for doing the bare minimum. He doesnt do anything that Waluigi cant do.
 
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I'm against assist upgrades given I'm doubtful they'll happen given the time and effort they'd take since if someone like Waluigi gets in then it wouldn't be fair for others that were wanted like Isaac, Ashley, Shadow and Skull Kid.
 

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I'm against assist upgrades given I'm doubtful they'll happen given the time and effort they'd take since if someone like Waluigi gets in then it wouldn't be fair for others that were wanted like Isaac, Ashley, Shadow and Skull Kid.
That can be said about literally any character though, not just assists. Why is it fair that, say, Incineroar got in over Decidueye, or K. Rool over Dixie, or Banjo over Steve, etc? "Fairness" is entirely subjective and in the end doesn't really matter.
 

Cutie Gwen

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The move seems to trade power for utility compared to Flare Blitz; it didn't knock Jr. very far in the clip, but it has super armour/invulnerability to blow through hazards and will make his recovery very hard to challenge unless you knock him low. Shock Spring Jump's lack of helplessness also gives it use as an extra mobility tool to press a juggle or mix up his disadvantage, beyond recovery.

Judging viability from just four moves is foolhardy, especially when your only knock against one of them is "it can be played around" which is possible with any move. And if you're going to argue for big concessions in the name of viability, may as well go all the way and say don't include any character that isn't fast or can't fill the screen the projectiles.
Oh I'm not predicting viability from that on move, but rather saying that we might see a similar effect to what happened with Little Mac and K.Rool, especially with how surprisingly fast the move is. Me saying that Kazooie getting a hurtbox would make the character relatively bad isn't just based off of 4 moves, Banjo's tilts have Kazooie act lile a bayonet and the Smash attack is pretty laggy. Not to mention the dash attack increases their size quite a bit, making them pretty easy to hit
 

ze9

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We haven't seen Banjo's dash attack though. The beak barge is probably just the down tilt. Dash attack is gonna be the roll.

It's not hard to understand. They like it because they grew up with it. It's nostalgia and not much else.
That's not just it. The first Banjo-Kazooie is a legit masterpiece.
Some parts of Tooie admittedly didn't age very well though. But there's no denying that it was, at the very least, an incredibly ambitious game that really tried to push its genre forward (and for the most part, it succeeded, at least in my opinion). Plus it's just as charming as the first one.

There's a reason why there's a lot of nostalgia for Banjo-Kazooie, to the point we got a kickstarted spiritual sequel in Yooka-Laylee, while things like Croc, Gex, Bubsy, Ty, or even Bomberman Hero, or things like that are forgotten today.
 
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Xelrog

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A Mario character's importance isnt tied to whether they appear in a main game or not, its the important roles they have. Story wise the main games and spin offs ( sport and party games that is ) are one and the same.
No, they're not.

Daisy is of comparable significance to Waluigi and Toad. The only reason she got in is because she was an easy echo, with some possible influence from female representation appeal.
 
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No, they're not.

Daisy is of comparable significance to Waluigi and Toad. The only reason she got in is because she was an easy echo, with some possible influence from female representation appeal.
And the only reason she even got this far because shes a recurring Mario character. If it wasnt for the spin off appearances she wouldnt even have been a sticker, let alone a playable character.

Heres the important part of my argument you've missed.

Daisy isnt equal to Wario or Rosalina because she also debut in a main game. Wario's role as a boss got him his own line of games and he was immediately part of the Mario cast, Daisy only ripped off Peach's role one time and she rotted in irrelevancy until she was used as a doubles partner for Peach, the same role you give Waluigi flak for. Rosalina's role in Galaxy got her in 3d world and smash with her own trailer, moveset and stage, Daisy's inclusion in smash is as a carbon copy of Peach and her trailer was used as the prime example that echos dont take any time or effort.

Im not trying to diss Daisy but the point im makin is that she got her popularity from the spin offs. 90% of Daisy fans werent born when her game came around and the 10% definitely werent her fans because of Super Mario Land.
 
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ze9

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You know what, I've got an actually unpopular opinion.
Piranha Plant is the best Mario newcomer we've got ever since Bowser and Peach in Melee.
I was all for Toad, but the Plant is just too much fun. Its animations are so funny, the way it runs still cracks me up six months later. It's also very fun to play and totally absurd to watch. I love Plant. The best joke character we ever got.

I'd still like Toad, though. And I mean normal plain Toad. Speedy and deadly, just like in the Mario games.
Captain Toad is way more likely, but I don't think I'd really like his moveset, I feel like he'd be kinda slow and clunky just like he is in his games. Though he arguably deserves the spot more. Captain Toad is a good game.
 
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The new version of Beneath the Mask is the best Persona song in the game. It has a groovy feel of a nighttime masquerade that reflects the sinister yet curious design of the Mementos stage. I like it better in the background than Last Surprise or any other song.
 
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Heres another character suggestion i dont get, Toad. Waluigi is a better fit to be in smash than Toad by a landslide. Since Toad's debut he has been nothing but a background/side character. Heres his track record:

Only told Mario that the princess is in another castle.

Was only playable because there werent any characters to fill the fourth slot so he was by default and not importance. Not to mention thats a game thats a reskin of another game doki doki panic

Handed out items

Background character in every 3d Mario barring 3d world

Is only a playable character in nsmb due to the fact that hes so unremarkable that he can copy Mario's most basic attacks.

He's even a background/side character in half of the sports games.

I wouldnt even call Captain Toads game an accomplishment since its a bogged down version of Mario's gameplay and a simple puzzle game.

Toad doesnt hold a candle to Waluigi.
Hi, resident long time Toad fan here.

You missed out that he also starred in Wario's Woods on the NES and the semi-sequel on SNES as the protagonist who blew the absolute living **** out of Wario with a ton of bombs when Wario tried to take over the mushroom kingdom's woods:
This screen from the SNES version is glorious

Captain Toad's mini game in 3D World was a big enough success to land him his own game. Treasure Tracker also plays nothing like a Mario game, it's the antithesis of one.
Mario games are about tight platforming, and importantly jumping and killing everything in your way to reach the end goal using a plethora of power ups.
Captain Toad's game meanwhile famously has a lack of jumping ergo he has to solve problems with puzzles and manipulating the environment.
You have limited resources of which to take out enemies, sometimes requiring stealth to avoid being detected and sometimes have to use OTHER enemies to take out obstacles blocking your path rather than just mowing everything down.

The two game styles aren't really the same honestly. One's intentionally meant to be the opposite of the other.

Aside from that, in total Toad has starred as lead protagonist in four games although two were Japan exclusive not including the remakes of Wario's Woods and Treasure Tracker. We include those and that's nine games under his belt not including re-releases of Wario's Woods on the Virtual Console.

Japan named him their 8th favourite video game character(not Nintendo, not Mario, video game character) of all time back in 2008 during a period of time when Nintendo were ignoring him, which put him behind only Mario and Yoshi from the Mario-verse too, so he's pretty popular as a character.

He also was in the top ten request poll Sakurai made for Smash Bros. Melee(then referred to as Smash 2). His fan support dropped mostly because it seems to be stuck as Peach's neutral B.

"Is only a playable character in nsmb due to the fact that hes so unremarkable that he can copy Mario's most basic attacks."
Same as Luigi then. Guess Luigi's unremarkable because of the one game where he's statisically the same as Mario.
I keep seeing this argument brought up, as if it's not because anyone placed in the role would have the same abilities to keep it fair. Look at Super Mario Run where Yoshi is forced to play in a very similar style to Mario despite his unique abilties. Same thing here.

As for not appearing as playable in all the spinoffs...well he's got a perfect attendence in Mario Kart, which is by far easily the most popular one, something even 'the spinoff king' Waluigi can't brag to have done since his inclusion. So there's that.

Overall though it's the exact same as any other character; people who want Toad, do so because they like Toad.
 
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UserKev

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Can I say that, I really hate Rex? If its one character I would rather have in Smash, is Chrom. Please let Pyra or Elma rep Chronicles 2.
 
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Unpopular: not everyone has to be picking sides about Dragon Quest in Smash.

I wish people would come to realize there's a middle ground for every fighter reveal. A lot of people seem to be freaking out on the internet about the Dragon Quest heroes in Smash. What I've seen is mainly a mix of "Ugh, another anime sword fighter!" and "You have to respect them, they're popular in Japan!" The thing is that people are entitled to their opinions and no one is obligated to be excited for The Hero (you know what? I'm calling him The Luminary. Fight me Nintendo). However even if you dislike having yet another anime sword fighter, people need to realize that the characters represented via The Luminary and his alts are THE anime sword fighters (Erdrick especially). These characters defined JRPGs today and we wouldn't have games like Persona 5 or XC2 without them. Dragon Quest sells so well in Japan it almost makes you scratch your head why it took so long for them to be in Smash. But if they weren't your favorite picks, or more likely, you just aren't interested in DQ, that's OK as well. Some people need to understand simply how huge DQ is and why it makes sense for them to be in Smash and others need to understand that not everyone is going to be head-over-heels excited for them either.
 
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Calamitas

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Can I say that, I really hate Rex? If its one character I would rather have in Smash, is Chrom. Please let Pyra or Elma rep Chronicles 2.
Don't worry, you're not alone on that first part.
. . .And now I can't help but to think just how much of a power move it would be to have Elma be in as rep for 2 instead of X.
I get that you probably meant the series in general but still
 
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Unpopular: not everyone has to be picking sides about Dragon Quest in Smash.

I wish people would come to realize there's a middle ground for every fighter reveal. A lot of people seem to be freaking out on the internet about the Dragon Quest heroes in Smash. What I've seen is mainly a mix of "Ugh, another anime sword fighter!" and "You have to respect them, they're popular in Japan!" The thing is that people are entitled to their opinions and no one is obligated to be excited for The Hero (you know what? I'm calling him The Luminary. Fight me Nintendo). However even if you dislike having yet another anime sword fighter, people need to realize that the characters represented via The Luminary and his alts are THE anime sword fighters (Erdrick especially). These characters defined JRPGs today and we wouldn't have games like Persona 5 or XC2 without them. Dragon Quest sells so well in Japan it almost makes you scratch your head why it took so long for them to be in Smash. But if they weren't your favorite picks, or more likely, you just aren't interested in DQ, that's OK as well. Some people need to understand simply how hug DQ is and why it makes sense for them to be in Smash and others need to understand that not everyone is going to be head-over-heels excited for them either.
I see a lot of people complaining about the Hero because having a Square Enix representative means that Geno probably won't be in Smash Ultimate.
 

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I see a lot of people complaining about the Hero because having a Square Enix representative means that Geno probably won't be in Smash Ultimate.
Honestly I think that logic's a bit faulty.

Even had DQ Hero not been chosen, there's no guarantee that Geno would've been chosen over Square Enix's long line of illustrious RPG characters to choose from.
 
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You missed out that he also starred in Wario's Woods on the NES and the semi-sequel on SNES as the protagonist who blew the absolute living **** out of Wario with a ton of bombs when Wario tried to take over the mushroom kingdom's woods:
This screen from the SNES version is glorious
Aside from that, in total Toad has starred as lead protagonist in four games although two were Japan exclusive not including the remakes of Wario's Woods and Treasure Tracker. We include those and that's nine games under his belt not including re-releases of Wario's Woods on the Virtual Console.
First of all these are simple puzzle games. Second of all like i said he doesn't do anything that Mario couldnt do, its smb2 in puzzle form, and third off all i'd give Toad props for that if it wasnt ooc. Before and after Wario's woods Toad has always been a scaredy cat, it would've made more sense for Mario to be the protagonist of these games. And lastly Tingle also has his own games, doesnt mean hes more important than Skull Kid.

As for not appearing as playable in all the spinoffs...well he's got a perfect attendence in Mario Kart, which is by far easily the most popular one, something even 'the spinoff king' Waluigi can't brag to have done since his inclusion. So there's that.
Sure i'll give you that. Atleast his exclusion warrented an outcry over so called important characters like Bowser jr. For that matter Waluigi has had a perfect attendance as a playable at all the other sport and party titles unlike Toad. Toad wasnt playable in 1 basketball game, 2 sports mixes, 4 tennis games, 5 Olympics games, 7 Golf games, there was no outcry for him after all these times. Theres also the fact that Toad wasnt playable in 7 party games.
So you got 1 game with support vs 26 games with none of it.

For that matter in both the baseball and soccer games Toad has been a sidekick while Waluigi is a captain.

Japan named him their 8th favourite video game character(not Nintendo, not Mario, video game character) of all time back in 2008 during a period of time when Nintendo were ignoring him, which put him behind only Mario and Yoshi from the Mario-verse too, so he's pretty popular as a character.

He also was in the top ten request poll Sakurai made for Smash Bros. Melee(then referred to as Smash 2). His fan support dropped mostl
Yeah im gonna need sources for that, and more importantly huge numbers. A measly 1000 votes isnt even a small fraction of the Mario fanbase. For that matter even if there are huge numbers, where did they go? I havent seen Toad held in such high regard in every other nintendo/smash poll. Waluigi makes it in the top 10 or 20 in these polls, Toad nowhere near that number.

"Is only a playable character in nsmb due to the fact that hes so unremarkable that he can copy Mario's most basic attacks."
Same as Luigi then. Guess Luigi's unremarkable because of the one game where he's statisically the same as Mario.
I keep seeing this argument brought up, as if it's not because anyone placed in the role would have the same abilities to keep it fair.
I hate to break to ya but i have the same opinion about Luigi. Hes always been a pallete swapped clone with minor to no tweaks so my point about Toad still stands. In only 3 main games has Luigi been notably different from Mario that you feel like your playing a different character. And after 18 years the only difference he got from Mario was a vacuum and thunder. Waluigi on the other hand atleast has abilities to seperate himself from others. Imagine that, the clone of a clonw is more of his own character than the character hes a clone of lmao.

I still can't believe there are people who argue Waluigi of all characters is more important than Toad.
Yeah well atleast Waluigi has an actual backstory, atleast he has a personality, atleast he has own powers and abilites. Whats your excuse for praising this diaper wearing midget?
 
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Xelrog

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Don't worry, you're not alone on that first part.
. . .And now I can't help but to think just how much of a power move it would be to have Elma be in as rep for 2 instead of X.
I get that you probably meant the series in general but still
I don't get why people think there needs to be another Xenoblade rep. It's a very new series that's only had two games. This is just another Fire Emblem situation where people get really emotionally attached to specific characters because of the game's story, irrelevant to the significance of the series itself as a Smash entity, isn't it?

If there absolutely had to be another rep from that media franchise it should be from Xenogears or Xenosaga. Get some history in there.
 
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First of all these are simple puzzle games. Second of all like i said he doesn't do anything that Mario couldnt do, its smb2 in puzzle form, and third off all i'd give Toad props for that if it wasnt ooc. Before and after Wario's woods Toad has always been a scaredy cat, it would've made more sense for Mario to be the protagonist of these games. And lastly Tingle also has his own games, doesnt mean hes more important than Skull Kid.
"These are simple puzzle games"
Err...so what? Dr. Mario is a simple puzzle game, he got in. People want Arle Narde from Poyo Pop and that's a simple puzzle game. Being a puzzle game doesn't make it not matter all of a sudden.

Waluigi's entire gaming resume is simple sports games with a Mario skin. If you're going to cry foul over people disregarding his spinoffs not counting as much as the mainline games you might want to not be a hypocrite by trying to undermine other gaming genres the Mario crew appear in.

Also nah man, Toad bullies Wario in Mario 64 DS, snarks at Mario in Mario RPG, puts down Luigi a whole ton in the Mario and Luigi RPG games, chases down Nabbit in New Super Mario Bros., talks smack in Mario Tennis Aces about Wario and Waluigi and according to the new Luigi's Mansion game drives a bus like a drunkern demon. Toad's not OOC at all, he's not scared of everything.

As for Tingle being more important than Skull Kid...well one is the protagonist in a bunch of games and one is the antagonist in one. Not really equivalent to Toad and Waluigi unless you want to count that dance dance revolution game as Waluigi's starring antagonist role.

Spoiling the rest since this is going to get long and nobody really gives a **** about the Toad vs. Waluigi war you're trying to engage me in.

Sure i'll give you that. Atleast his exclusion warrented an outcry over so called important characters like Bowser jr. For that matter Waluigi has had a perfect attendance as a playable at all the other sport and party titles unlike Toad. Toad wasnt playable in 1 basketball game, 2 sports mixes, 4 tennis games, 5 Olympics games, 7 Golf games, there was no outcry for him after all these times. Theres also the fact that Toad wasnt playable in 7 party games.
So you got 1 game with support vs 26 games with none of it.
Mario Kart is leagues and leagues beyond any and all these other sport spinoffs just by sheer sales numbers and Toad's the second most popular Kart racer according to statistics right after Yoshi.
They cut Toad, you're damn ****ing right there will be outcry. He's become a staple. When he looked like he wasn't in Mario Kart Double Dash there was outcry about it, only for relief when he turned up as a secret character to introduce his new partner Toadette.

Mario Sports Mix Toad brought every single one of his cousins along with him...which is the only sports mix game that was made. If you're on about Superstar Sports...which is one of the worst sports games ever recieved from the Mario crew...kinda glad he wasn't in that honestly.

Mario Party's a weird case since him and DK swap who gets to be the party host often. In that game not being playable means he's the most important character usually in deciding who wins the damn game, so I'm not sure if I can count that as a minus.

But hey, you're not counting Mario puzzle games for some reason so I guess I don't really need to count it as a minus that Toad doesn't appear as a playable character in Mario and Sonic since it's half a Sonic game. It's as arbitary a reason as 'a simple puzzle game' after all.

Yeah im gonna need sources for that, and more importantly huge numbers. A measly 1000 votes isnt even a small fraction of the Mario fanbase. For that matter even if there are huge numbers, where did they go? I havent seen Toad held in such high regard in every other nintendo/smash poll. Waluigi makes it in the top 10 or 20 in these polls, Toad nowhere near that number.
Waluigi as far as I've seen has only ever been popular amongst Smash fans. And that's mostly to fulfill the Mario and Luigi vs. Wario and Waluigi.
Geno is less important than Waluigi to Mario as a whole but Smash fans want him more than him. Being more wanted doesn't make you more important to the franchise, else Geno's inarguably the sixth most popular Mario character after Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser and Wario.

As for Smash support numbers; they dwindled after Toad didn't turn up in Brawl. Due to the Toad rumour in Melee and being a popular choice from 64 a lot of people assumed he'd make it into Brawl. When it became clear Sakurai wasn't going to shift, Toad fans began accepting it wasn't going to happen. He still had a decent amount of support in Sm4sh rivalling Bowser Jr for the top dog Mario spot. Captain Toad bolstered him a bit too, and he's usually in the high 30s from what I've seen.

Waluigi's huge push seems to have come mostly between Sm4sh's base roster and the DLC ballot. Now Daisy, who was basically Waluigi's female spinoff rival, made the Smash cut, the push for Waa has grown.

I hate to break to ya but i have the same opinion about Luigi. Hes always been a pallete swapped clone with minor to no tweaks so my point about Toad still stands. In only 3 main games has Luigi been notably different from Mario that you feel like your playing a different character. And after 18 years the only difference he got from Mario was a vacuum and thunder. Waluigi on the other hand atleast has abilities to seperate himself from others. Imagine that, the clone of a clonw is more of his own character than the character hes a clone of lmao.
If Luigi doesn't matter then how on earth does Waluigi matter?

Not that it matters because unlike Waluigi, we can see if Luigi and Toad play differently in the mainline games(and sometimes they do). Honestly if Waluigi is ever lucky enough to make it into the mainline Mario games I doubt he'll be using any of these crazy abilities you seem to think he has.

Yeah well atleast Waluigi has an actual backstory, atleast he has a personality, atleast he has own powers and abilites. Whats your excuse for praising this diaper wearing midget?
Source on that backstory, because I've never heard it before. Sounds like bull**** because barely any character in Mario has a canon one, and I doubt they'd give one to Waluigi of all characters as a result. Captain Toad has a story of becoming his own character anyway thanks to Sunshine, Galaxy/Galaxy 2, Treasure Tracker and 3D World/Mario Odyssey.

Captain Toad is full of personality, a single video of the gameplay showcases that.


Toad meanwhile also has plenty of personality; Super Mario RPG, all the interactions with Wario and Luigi in Mario 64 DS, Mario and Rabbids, Mario Tennis Aces...I'm not convinced you've actually played many Mario games and have just decided to hate Toad.

Abilities huh?
Waluigi has a bunch of random one off moves that he doesn't use across games. If we're counting the ability to spawn whips and swimming through air as Waluigi's powers and abilities we might as well include Toad's ability to lift 8 times his weight, manipulate the environment around him by spawning mushrooms and walking up walls since they have as many appearences, if not more.

Waluigi's only consistent abilities is he sometimes uses bombs and he's pretty good at tennis. Toad's consistant abilities are his super strength and speed.

Edit: Ah damn, better put an unpopular opinion here...

It's a shame everyone seems to think any and all Nintendo characters 'won't be hype' these days.

The whole "they've included everyone who matters" mentality pretty much seems to stem mostly from those who have had their favourites included and now no longer care about the rest of Nintendo's still pretty impressive pool of popular and iconic characters and IPs.

Just a shame.
 
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"These are simple puzzle games"
Err...so what? Dr. Mario is a simple puzzle game, he got in. People want Arle Narde from Poyo Pop and that's a simple puzzle game. Being a puzzle game doesn't make it not matter all of a sudden.

Waluigi's entire gaming resume is simple sports games with a Mario skin. If you're going to cry foul over people disregarding his spinoffs not counting as much as the mainline games you might want to not be a hypocrite by trying to undermine other gaming genres the Mario crew appear in.

Also nah man, Toad bullies Wario in Mario 64 DS, snarks at Mario in Mario RPG, puts down Luigi a whole ton in the Mario and Luigi RPG games, chases down Nabbit in New Super Mario Bros., talks smack in Mario Tennis Aces about Wario and Waluigi and according to the new Luigi's Mansion game drives a bus like a drunkern demon. Toad's not OOC at all, he's not scared of everything.

As for Tingle being more important than Skull Kid...well one is the protagonist in a bunch of games and one is the antagonist in one. Not really equivalent to Toad and Waluigi unless you want to count that dance dance revolution game as Waluigi's starring antagonist role.

Spoiling the rest since this is going to get long and nobody really gives a **** about the Toad vs. Waluigi war you're trying to engage me in.

Mario Kart is leagues and leagues beyond any and all these other sport spinoffs just by sheer sales numbers and Toad's the second most popular Kart racer according to statistics right after Yoshi.
They cut Toad, you're damn ****ing right there will be outcry. He's become a staple. When he looked like he wasn't in Mario Kart Double Dash there was outcry about it, only for relief when he turned up as a secret character to introduce his new partner Toadette.

Mario Sports Mix Toad brought every single one of his cousins along with him...which is the only sports mix game that was made. If you're on about Superstar Sports...which is one of the worst sports games ever recieved from the Mario crew...kinda glad he wasn't in that honestly.

Mario Party's a weird case since him and DK swap who gets to be the party host often. In that game not being playable means he's the most important character usually in deciding who wins the damn game, so I'm not sure if I can count that as a minus.

But hey, you're not counting Mario puzzle games for some reason so I guess I don't really need to count it as a minus that Toad doesn't appear as a playable character in Mario and Sonic since it's half a Sonic game. It's as arbitary a reason as 'a simple puzzle game' after all.



Waluigi as far as I've seen has only ever been popular amongst Smash fans. And that's mostly to fulfill the Mario and Luigi vs. Wario and Waluigi.
Geno is less important than Waluigi to Mario as a whole but Smash fans want him more than him. Being more wanted doesn't make you more important to the franchise, else Geno's inarguably the sixth most popular Mario character after Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser and Wario.

As for Smash support numbers; they dwindled after Toad didn't turn up in Brawl. Due to the Toad rumour in Melee and being a popular choice from 64 a lot of people assumed he'd make it into Brawl. When it became clear Sakurai wasn't going to shift, Toad fans began accepting it wasn't going to happen. He still had a decent amount of support in Sm4sh rivalling Bowser Jr for the top dog Mario spot. Captain Toad bolstered him a bit too, and he's usually in the high 30s from what I've seen.

Waluigi's huge push seems to have come mostly between Sm4sh's base roster and the DLC ballot. Now Daisy, who was basically Waluigi's female spinoff rival, made the Smash cut, the push for Waa has grown.



If Luigi doesn't matter then how on earth does Waluigi matter?

Not that it matters because unlike Waluigi, we can see if Luigi and Toad play differently in the mainline games(and sometimes they do). Honestly if Waluigi is ever lucky enough to make it into the mainline Mario games I doubt he'll be using any of these crazy abilities you seem to think he has.



Source on that backstory, because I've never heard it before. Sounds like bull**** because barely any character in Mario has a canon one, and I doubt they'd give one to Waluigi of all characters as a result. Captain Toad has a story of becoming his own character anyway thanks to Sunshine, Galaxy/Galaxy 2, Treasure Tracker and 3D World/Mario Odyssey.

Captain Toad is full of personality, a single video of the gameplay showcases that.


Toad meanwhile also has plenty of personality; Super Mario RPG, all the interactions with Wario and Luigi in Mario 64 DS, Mario and Rabbids, Mario Tennis Aces...I'm not convinced you've actually played many Mario games and have just decided to hate Toad.

Abilities huh?
Waluigi has a bunch of random one off moves that he doesn't use across games. If we're counting the ability to spawn whips and swimming through air as Waluigi's powers and abilities we might as well include Toad's ability to lift 8 times his weight, manipulate the environment around him by spawning mushrooms and walking up walls since they have as many appearences, if not more.

Waluigi's only consistent abilities is he sometimes uses bombs and he's pretty good at tennis. Toad's consistant abilities are his super strength and speed.

Edit: Ah damn, better put an unpopular opinion here...

It's a shame everyone seems to think any and all Nintendo characters 'won't be hype' these days.

The whole "they've included everyone who matters" mentality pretty much seems to stem mostly from those who have had their favourites included and now no longer care about the rest of Nintendo's still pretty impressive pool of popular and iconic characters and IPs.

Just a shame.
Bless you. You are doing a wonderful thing with these posts.

I have one. I wish that they used the custom moves from Smash 4 and used them to make more echo fighters.
Oh I strongly agree here. I really wish that they tried to make echoes/semi echoes of either Roll or Proto Man using all of Mega Man’s unique customs from Smash 4.

And an unpopular opinion: I’m glad that they limited every character to exactly 8 alts for this game. Wario having 12 in Brawl, and Mac having 16 in Smash 4 bothered me way more than it should have.
 

ze9

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I think people want Waluigi because he's a fun character. There's not much to it.

Toad clearly has way more legacy than him though, there shouldn't even be a point of discussion.
He was there since the first Super Mario Bros, he's playable in a few mainline games (SMB2 and 3d World + the NSMB games if you count them) and he appears in every single one, he's got his own games (Captain Toad which is a million seller, and kinda Wario's Woods), in Mario spin-offs he's just as omnipresent as Waluigi if not even more, he's arguably part of the most iconic NPC race in all of gaming (the Toads)... Not much to argue.

Me, personally? I'd really like Toad a lot, vanilla and Captain are both fine, I don't care.
I don't particularly want Waluigi, but he could be fun. And at this point we have almost 80 characters, the bar sure has lowered enough for him to get a spot.
I'm pretty sure they will both show up eventually.
 
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