Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Gimmick-Hater]

The FE representation in Smash is fine. I'm not sure why people constantly complain about it mostly being swords. Almost all of the popular FE characters/main lords use swords.

The only ones that don't, at least to my knowledge, are Ephraim, Hector, Celica, and Micaiah. Robin already uses magic (so that's covered), we have a dragon character (Corrin), and adding a lance or axe unit just to complete the weapon triangle seems just as arbitrary as adding every typing of Pokemon (including dual types).

It's rather pointless, and honestly... None of the notable axe or lance units from FE seem like they'd be that unique. Like, I could honestly see Hector just being a semi-clone of Ike akin to Chrom. I can't think of anything interesting Ephraim would do (unless you consider poking a spear upwards to be interesting). Maybe Azura because of her ability to manipulate water, or character riding a wyvern (Camilla), but that's about it.

Plus, at the end of the day, two of the FE characters in the game are just low-effort clones (Lucina & Chrom). Roy is basically just Fire Marth. It's not like these sword characters have incredibly unique, and interesting move-sets compared to one another. They're just bonuses.

 

[MacSmitty]

I don't like the trend of characters who were barely even talked about during speculation cycles get all this supposed "support" and claims that "they're totally in" all because of some silly rumors and false leaks.

 

[Opossum]

The FE representation in Smash is fine. I'm not sure why people constantly complain about it mostly being swords. Almost all of the popular FE characters/main lords use swords.

The only ones that don't, at least to my knowledge, are Ephraim, Hector, Celica, and Micaiah. Robin already uses magic (so that's covered), we have a dragon character (Corrin), and adding a lance or axe unit just to complete the weapon triangle seems just as arbitrary as adding every typing of Pokemon (including dual types).

It's rather pointless, and honestly... None of the notable axe or lance units from FE seem like they'd be that unique. Like, I could honestly see Hector just being a semi-clone of Ike akin to Chrom. I can't think of anything interesting Ephraim would do (unless you consider poking a spear upwards to be interesting). Maybe Azura because of her ability to manipulate water, or character riding a wyvern (Camilla), but that's about it.

Plus, at the end of the day, two of the FE characters in the game are just low-effort clones (Lucina & Chrom). Roy is basically just Fire Marth. It's not like these sword characters have incredibly unique, and interesting move-sets compared to one another. They're just bonuses.

Celica does use a sword, but she's primarily a magic user. It's to the point where it's honestly better for her to just equip a Mage Ring for longer spell range than to use the Beloved Zofia at all, if you run the numbers, lol.

With that said, though, I definitely don't think Robin alone "covers" magic, especially when Robin only uses his tomes in his specials, jab, and Final Smash. Especially when someone like Celica can cast without even using a tome, leading to a much more varied moveset.

 

[Xelrog]

I definitely don't think Robin alone "covers" magic, especially when Robin only uses his tomes in his specials, jab, and Final Smash. Especially when someone like Celica can cast without even using a tome, leading to a much more varied moveset.

Even Ness doesn't use PSI for literally all his attacks. C'mon now.

 

[Opossum]

Even Ness doesn't use PSI for literally all his attacks. C'mon now.

Point out where I said it had to be every attack. I assure you, you won't find it.

Robin, in my eyes, can't fully encapsulate magic from Fire Emblem if he uses it so sparingly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly now that Opossum's saying it a fully-fledged Fire Emblem mage would be dope cause magic isn't used enough in Smash imo. Though to taunt him I'm gonna propose Erk instead of Merric

 

[Idon]

Even Ness doesn't use PSI for literally all his attacks. C'mon now.

Yes, but he does do it for moves that aren't purely his special moves.

Up air, down air, back air, neutral air, forward air, up tilt, as compared to Robin's 2 jab finishers. Lucas probably has even moreso.

And of course there's Zelda who puts magic sparkles on everything.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Honestly now that Opossum's saying it a fully-fledged Fire Emblem mage would be dope cause magic isn't used enough in Smash imo. Though to taunt him I'm gonna propose Erk instead of Merric

Or Medeus. I guess my wanting of him is an unpopular opinion

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Or Medeus. I guess my wanting of him is an unpopular opinion

If he was a cool villain then I'd agree. Though if we want villains from FE I think Garnef would do very nicely even if Black Knight is the most popular villain

 

[Xelrog]

Robin uses it plenty.

 

[Dee Dude]

I’ve seen arguments that focusing on fan-requested characters limits the team’s creativity but I’ve been doubting that holds any water.

Why is that just because customers want to play as characters they like in a video games, that somehow stresses Sakurai and his crew into overworking them as fighters instead of wanting to include Labo Man or Bullet Bill?

Just because they’re talked about a lot in the community doesn’t mean they would be boring, predictable? Maybe, but not boring.

-Making a moveset based on Earth power and magic hands is creative. (Isaac)
-Having a hair based moveset hair is creative. (Dixie and Shantae)
-Making the first spear/staff based moveset is creative. (Bandana Dee and Krystal)
-Moveset on extendable limbs? Never done. (Spring-Man)

See my point? None of these are ever done yet.

And the whole “creativity” aspect only even applies to shock characters that we never expected.

Otherwise, we shouldn’t even talk “boring or predictable” when half of the roster consists of Echoes/Clones/Semi clones and atleast 15% of the 70 cast have the same generic Down B counter/reflect.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Even Ness doesn't use PSI for literally all his attacks. C'mon now.

Ness' moveset itself borrow moves from other Earthbound/Mother characters because they couldn't figure out a full moveset for him. So even if he doesn't use PSI in all of his attacks at least they tried.

Here's an argument I hate:
"X has its main cast so adding more fighters would be unneeded inflation to the roster."
Ok, I guess we should just remove then.

But the thing is this seems to be a popular idea. That we should only have a series' main cast so as to not blow up the roster size. Why? It makes zero sense to limit how many fighters a series has. That's would be wasting so much potential.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Ness' moveset itself borrow moves from other Earthbound/Mother characters because they couldn't figure out a full moveset for him. So even if he doesn't use PSI in all of his attacks at least they tried.

Here's an argument I hate:
"X has its main cast so adding more fighters would be unneeded inflation to the roster."
Ok, I guess we should just remove then.

But the thing is this seems to be a popular idea. That we should only have a series' main cast so as to not blow up the roster size. Why? It makes zero sense to limit how many fighters a series has. That's would be wasting so much potential.

It’s about balance. One franchise shouldn’t be over or underrepresented. It should feel like it’s ammount of characters is proportional to its relevance, legacy, and popularity. That’s just part of making a good crossover.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

It’s about balance. One franchise shouldn’t be over or underrepresented. It should feel like it’s ammount of characters is proportional to its relevance, legacy, and popularity. That’s just part of making a good crossover.

You say things need to be proportional. Let's do the math:
Wario currently has around 20 million sales worldwide and one fighter.
If we base things off of that, 20 million sales = 1 fighter
So, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, and Kid Icarus would not have any fighters, to name a few.
Star Fox and metroid would have 1. Assuming Metroid prime 4 sells well, maybe Metroid gets a second.
Kirby and Wii Fit would have 2 fighters
DK would have 4
Zelda would have 6 (I think)
Mario and Pokemon would have God knows how many fighters (Mario has between 560 and 600 million IIRC so imagine the series having up to 30 fighters to give you an idea).

Makes sense to me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ness' moveset itself borrow moves from other Earthbound/Mother characters because they couldn't figure out a full moveset for him. So even if he doesn't use PSI in all of his attacks at least they tried.

Here's an argument I hate:
"X has its main cast so adding more fighters would be unneeded inflation to the roster."
Ok, I guess we should just remove then.

But the thing is this seems to be a popular idea. That we should only have a series' main cast so as to not blow up the roster size. Why? It makes zero sense to limit how many fighters a series has. That's would be wasting so much potential.

Some of those examples include the main cast of some games/franchises but you're not wrong

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Some of those examples include the main cast of some games/franchises but you're not wrong

Which ones. I may have messed up.
I'll go over each one:
Wasn't in the first game
Unplayable NPC, hasn't appeared in that many canon games lately
Very late to the series
Spinoff
Unplayable NPC, appears in 3 games
: Much later to the series than the others
Later to the series + unplayable NPC
Has not appeared in a DK game in a long time
Later in the series
: Not as late but still late to the series
Unplayable NPC in all 3 games plus only made cameos in the first 2
Just the damsel in distress. That's all. Never fights in her canonical appearances
: Canon appearance in 1 old game. mainly a spinoff character
Late to the series
Late to the series
One. Game.
Later in the series
: Extra versions of a fighter already in the game
Started in a Mario game (but has his own series so I guess he's OK).
unplayable NPC, also just a damsel in distress in some games
Another version of an already existing fighter

 

[SnakeFighter64]

You say things need to be proportional. Let's do the math:
Wario currently has around 20 million sales worldwide and one fighter.
If we base things off of that, 20 million sales = 1 fighter
So, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, and Kid Icarus would not have any fighters, to name a few.
Star Fox and metroid would have 1. Assuming Metroid prime 4 sells well, maybe Metroid gets a second.
Kirby and Wii Fit would have 2 fighters
DK would have 4
Zelda would have 6 (I think)
Mario and Pokemon would have God knows how many fighters (Mario has between 560 and 600 million IIRC so imagine the series having up to 30 fighters to give you an idea).

Makes sense to me.

I was not basing this off of sales numbers alone but whatever.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I was not basing this off of sales numbers alone but whatever.

Then explain. You mentioned proportional to legacy, relevance, and popularity, quantities that cannot be measured, so the closest thing is sales numbers.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Which ones. I may have messed up.
I'll go over each one:
Wasn't in the first game
Unplayable NPC, hasn't appeared in that many canon games lately
Very late to the series
Spinoff
Unplayable NPC, appears in 3 games
: Much later to the series than the others
Later to the series + unplayable NPC
Has not appeared in a DK game in a long time
Later in the series
: Not as late but still late to the series
Unplayable NPC in all 3 games plus only made cameos in the first 2
Just the damsel in distress. That's all. Never fights in her canonical appearances
: Canon appearance in 1 old game. mainly a spinoff character
Late to the series
Late to the series
One. Game.
Later in the series
: Extra versions of a fighter already in the game
Started in a Mario game (but has his own series so I guess he's OK).
unplayable NPC, also just a damsel in distress in some games
Another version of an already existing fighter

Stuff like Peach, Palutena, Ganondorf and Zelda. They're still part of the main cast of their franchises as they're usually getting major roles whenever they appear. Ganondorf is one of the most iconi characters in the Zelda franchise and despite technically only appearing in 3 games, he's Ganon in others, so then he's the main villain of the franchise. I'd argue Alph but you can make the argument that he shares the spotlight with Brittany and Charlie in his debut game. Lucas is the main protagonist of his game and unlike say, Fire Emblem, the Mother series is very small and condensed. Then there's how Isabelle became so popular she's easily the mascot of Animal Crossing now.


That being said your point about 'just the main cast would be boring' is still true

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Then explain. You mentioned proportional to legacy, relevance, and popularity, quantities that cannot be measured, so the closest thing is sales numbers.

You can measure popularity with polls in addition to sales numbers. Relevance simply means “is the series currently running and does it have new games coming soon or in the recent past. Legacy is a measure of History. How long have they been around and at any point in their life did they max out the either two.

 

[Deleted member]

Here are my unpopular opinions:

Wario should've had a moveset that reflected his Wario Land games and not his so called Warioware series. The main series that put him on the map is treated like a cheap spin off and the app tier spin off gets treated like his main series.

Megaman x should've been in smash instead of classic Megaman.

Eliwood should've been the Roy echo instead of Chrom. Awakening got plenty of representation already, at best Chrom should've been an alt for Lucina.

I personally would've liked it better if we just had a fleshed out, Melee styled adventure mode instead of wol.

 

[Deleted member]

Which ones. I may have messed up.
I'll go over each one:
Wasn't in the first game
Unplayable NPC, hasn't appeared in that many canon games lately
Very late to the series
Spinoff
Unplayable NPC, appears in 3 games
: Much later to the series than the others
Later to the series + unplayable NPC
Has not appeared in a DK game in a long time
Later in the series
: Not as late but still late to the series
Unplayable NPC in all 3 games plus only made cameos in the first 2
Just the damsel in distress. That's all. Never fights in her canonical appearances
: Canon appearance in 1 old game. mainly a spinoff character
Late to the series
Late to the series
One. Game.
Later in the series
: Extra versions of a fighter already in the game
Started in a Mario game (but has his own series so I guess he's OK).
unplayable NPC, also just a damsel in distress in some games
Another version of an already existing fighter

What's wrong with having new characters that are important to the series? I may personally dislike Isabelle for how hard she's been pushed by Nintendo, but that that doesn't mean she isn't important.

Characters such as Peach and Zelda are important characters, just because you never get to play as them doesn't mean they're not part of the main cast or that they aren't important characters.

Also how is Richter late in way? Just because he wasn't in the first game doesn't mean he's a new character (Rondo of Blood released in 1993, 26 years ago).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What's wrong with having new characters that are important to the series? I may personally dislike Isabelle for how hard she's been pushed by Nintendo, but that that doesn't mean she isn't important.

Characters such as Peach and Zelda are important characters, just because you never get to play as them doesn't mean they're not part of the main cast or that they aren't important characters.

Also how is Richter late in way? Just because he wasn't in the first game doesn't mean he's a new character (Rondo of Blood released in 1993, 26 years ago).

That's not his argument, he used them as examples of characters who aren't the main cast who are in Smash and used that as a positive thing (Granted he's wrong)

Later, not late. Although Richter's also in SotN, one of the most well-known games in the franchise

 

[Mogisthelioma]

You can measure popularity with polls in addition to sales numbers.

Right. Polls that take place on one website and can barely gather a fraction of information that represents the whole of the fanbase. The only poll that can accurately reflect the opinions of the Smash community is one that has votes from every Smash fan in the world--which would mean having over 13 million recipients.

Relevance simply means “is the series currently running and does it have new games coming soon or in the recent past.

OK.
Relevant Franchises:
Somewhat relevant franchises:
Irrelevant franchises:

To name a few.

Using your logic, this should make complete sense.

Legacy is a measure of History. How long have they been around

In that case, Zelda, Kirby, Fire Emblem, Wario, Donkey Kong, and Yoshi should all have more representation that Pokemon since Pokemon is younger than all of those series.

and at any point in their life did they max out the either two.

A quantity that cannot be measured.

What's wrong with having new characters that are important to the series? I may personally dislike Isabelle for how hard she's been pushed by Nintendo, but that that doesn't mean she isn't important.

Characters such as Peach and Zelda are important characters, just because you never get to play as them doesn't mean they're not part of the main cast or that they aren't important characters.

Also how is Richter late in way? Just because he wasn't in the first game doesn't mean he's a new character (Rondo of Blood released in 1993, 26 years ago).

I never said any of that. My point in the post above that one was that some people foolishly argue that a series should only have its main cast of characters as fighters in Smash, so I listed all of the characters in the game I believe to be outside of the main cast, either because they are non-playable, haven't appeared in manygames, or were introduced later in the series, etc. I think all of those fighters are fine and I have nothing against them.

Also Cutie Gwen I forgot to quote your post but fair enough you made a good point.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In fairness, Toon Link is basically the floaty Link variant, and covers the more cartoonish side of the Legend of Zelda series. So in a way, he is different when compared to the other Links.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Right. Polls that take place on one website and can barely gather a fraction of information that represents the whole of the fanbase. The only poll that can accurately reflect the opinions of the Smash community is one that has votes from every Smash fan in the world--which would mean having over 13 million recipients.

OK.
Relevant Franchises:
Somewhat relevant franchises:
Irrelevant franchises:

To name a few.

Using your logic, this should make complete sense.

In that case, Zelda, Kirby, Fire Emblem, Wario, Donkey Kong, and Yoshi should all have more representation that Pokemon since Pokemon is younger than all of those series.

A quantity that cannot be measured.

I never said any of that. My point in the post above that one was that some people foolishly argue that a series should only have its main cast of characters as fighters in Smash, so I listed all of the characters in the game I believe to be outside of the main cast, either because they are non-playable, haven't appeared in manygames, or were introduced later in the series, etc. I think all of those fighters are fine and I have nothing against them.

Also Cutie Gwen I forgot to quote your post but fair enough you made a good point.

Okay then fine! Next Smash is just half fire emblem! The series has so many cool characters after all! Sakurai’s such a fan too. And the only real measure they should go by is just doing whatever the heck they want!

Is that what you want me to say?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Okay then fine! Next Smash is just half fire emblem! The series has so many cool characters after all! Sakurai’s such a fan too. And the only real measure they should go by is just doing whatever the heck they want!

Is that what you want me to say?

Wow, no need to snap.

All I'm saying is your argument makes no sense. The idea that a series should only have its main cast is flawed and works in double standards. It's clearly an idea the game designers never go by anyway (except in the case of Kirby and Zelda but that is topic for another discussion), and shouldn't be a reason we do or don't support characters. Relevancy, popularity, legacy, etc. are subjective qualities that cannot be accurately measured and shouldn't be the only reasons characters are brought into this game.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Wow, no need to snap.

All I'm saying is your argument makes no sense. The idea that a series should only have its main cast is flawed and works in double standards. It's clearly an idea the game designers never go by anyway (except in the case of Kirby and Zelda but that is topic for another discussion), and shouldn't be a reason we do or don't support characters. Relevancy, popularity, legacy, etc. are subjective qualities that cannot be accurately measured and shouldn't be the only reasons characters are brought into this game.

So then what. How do you decide? Just going by who would make a cool Fighter is a surefire way for series like Fire Emblem and Pokémon (which introduce dozens of new cool characters each game) to be extremely over represented.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

So then what. How do you decide? Just going by who would make a cool Fighter is a surefire way for series like Fire Emblem and Pokémon (which introduce dozens of new cool characters each game) to be extremely over represented.

In my opinion, fighters should be decided on both popularity/relevancy (as stated earlier, somewhat unmeasurable quantities, but a global poll as conducted by the Smash Ballot would be the best way of trying), potential (would they have a good moveset, can they be creatively designed, will the be fun to play, etc.), value (would it be a good crossover to have, will this improve relations with another company, can we build off of having the fighter in the game, etc.), and time (is it actually worth it to put them in the game).

So no, with all of these in consideration, I don't think either Fire Emblem or Pokemon are overrepresented (My only issue with FE is that I personally think a different character should have been in the game instead of Corrin).

 

[Opossum]

Right. Polls that take place on one website and can barely gather a fraction of information that represents the whole of the fanbase. The only poll that can accurately reflect the opinions of the Smash community is one that has votes from every Smash fan in the world--which would mean having over 13 million recipients.

OK.
Relevant Franchises:
Somewhat relevant franchises:
Irrelevant franchises:

To name a few.

Using your logic, this should make complete sense.

In that case, Zelda, Kirby, Fire Emblem, Wario, Donkey Kong, and Yoshi should all have more representation that Pokemon since Pokemon is younger than all of those series.

A quantity that cannot be measured.

I never said any of that. My point in the post above that one was that some people foolishly argue that a series should only have its main cast of characters as fighters in Smash, so I listed all of the characters in the game I believe to be outside of the main cast, either because they are non-playable, haven't appeared in manygames, or were introduced later in the series, etc. I think all of those fighters are fine and I have nothing against them.

Also Cutie Gwen I forgot to quote your post but fair enough you made a good point.

Pac-Man really shouldn't be down in the irrelevant section. Latest non-port games came out in 2016 (Championship Edition 2 and Pac-Man 256).

 

[SmasherMaster]

You also don't seem to realize that most of the fighters in this game can't be recognized by the "general audience" without at least some knowledge of their game or something related to them. If Smash was composed of only fighters who could be recognized by the general audience, we would only have
and MAYBE (Animal Corssing Rep) (Another Pokemon) would be our only fighters.

>Zelda

This, but even ignoring the maybes that is too generous. If Smash was only fighters recognized by the general public we would have
. Maybe somebody like if being generous. Like my parents only knew the main Mario characters, Pikachu, Pac-Man, Sonic, Ash Ketchum, 'Zelda', and Wii Fit Girl. (The last 3 were what Pokemon Trainer, Link and Wii Fit trainer were called, but they recognized them)

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Pac-Man really shouldn't be down in the irrelevant section. Latest non-port games came out in 2016 (Championship Edition 2 and Pac-Man 256).

That was a misclick. I'll remove him from the original post.

 

[Zinith]

So, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, and Kid Icarus would not have any fighters, to name a few.

Wait, Yoshi actually has more than or around 20 million sales...

 

[Rizen]

Subspace was 10X better than WoL, not that WoL was bad. I'd pay for a full side scrolling DLC campaign with all the cutscenes and character interactions. K.Rool, Ridley and Dark Samus could be some of the bad guy commanders, we could have rivalries, funny moments, new bosses... it'd be awesome.

 

[Grie]

Subspace was 10X better than WoL, not that WoL was bad. I'd pay for a full side scrolling DLC campaign with all the cutscenes and character interactions. K.Rool, Ridley and Dark Samus could be some of the bad guy commanders, we could have rivalries, funny moments, new bosses... it'd be awesome.

I agree. I’m one of the few people that actually dosen’t like subspace (from a gameplay point of view), but at least it wasn’t a 20h drag that had the same repetitive battles and did not pay off well at all. Long story short, don’t 100% world of light for your sanity’s sake.

 

[Xelrog]

I’m one of the few people that actually dosen’t like subspace (from a gameplay point of view), but at least it wasn’t a 20h drag that had the same repetitive battles and did not pay off well at all.

It wasn't? Really?

 

[PhantomShab]

I don't like the trend of characters who were barely even talked about during speculation cycles get all this supposed "support" and claims that "they're totally in" all because of some silly rumors and false leaks.

But I've always wanted Dragon Quest Guy. I've been a Dragon Quest fan ever since Veggiebin said it was getting into Smash.

Joking aside yeah it get's pretty annoying watching characters that nobody was talking about before get bandwagoned all because of rumors.

 

[Grie]

It wasn't? Really?

Yep. Outside of some cheese strats most battles have the same structure it gets boring real fast. If you where talking about it from a story stand point tho, I like the concepts and they are executed pretty well.

 

[Xelrog]

Yep. Outside of some cheese strats most battles have the same structure it gets boring real fast. If you where talking about it from a story stand point tho, I like the concepts and they are executed pretty well.

I was suggesting that Subspace was exactly a 20+ hour drag with repetitive levels and no payoff.

 

[Zinith]

Yoshi should get an Assist Trophy.