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Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

Wario Wario Wario

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For as much as people treat them as the "worst possible outcome", if Shrek and/or Goku actually got in Smash I imagine the reception would actually be primarily positive - especially from mainstream audiences not caught up in Smash speculation discourse. Of course, hindsight could change that reception depending on whether more "4th parties" are added, as well as how late into the game's lifespan the two are revealed.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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For as much as people treat them as the "worst possible outcome", if Shrek and/or Goku actually got in Smash I imagine the reception would actually be primarily positive - especially from mainstream audiences not caught up in Smash speculation discourse. Of course, hindsight could change that reception depending on whether more "4th parties" are added, as well as how late into the game's lifespan the two are revealed.
I'm pretty sure it's that hindsight moment that people dread, hence the "worst possible outcome" idea.

Because I'd actually be 100% down for Goku in Smash. It's just... the implications of what it could mean for speculation could cause so much toxicity that the entire Smash community might as well become a quarantined area of the Internet.
 

Aligo

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I'm pretty sure it's that hindsight moment that people dread, hence the "worst possible outcome" idea.

Because I'd actually be 100% down for Goku in Smash. It's just... the implications of what it could mean for speculation could cause so much toxicity that the entire Smash community might as well become a quarantined area of the Internet.
Not to mention that it would make the games exponentially more expensive to license, meaning the may be cost cutting in other areas. Trying to get rights from multiple companies, especially for smash where a breadth of content is brought for a new fighter and series, is a total nightmare.
 

Demon Dragon

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For as much as people treat them as the "worst possible outcome", if Shrek and/or Goku actually got in Smash I imagine the reception would actually be primarily positive - especially from mainstream audiences not caught up in Smash speculation discourse. Of course, hindsight could change that reception depending on whether more "4th parties" are added, as well as how late into the game's lifespan the two are revealed.
True, I'm not gonna lie, I am not entirely averse to the idea of fourth-party fighters, but the whole speculation scene would be a complete nightmare and the game would have to rely on miracles to get the licensing for some of the music and characters. It was already difficult enough getting Steve, Sora and Cloud.
 
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Aligo

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Another specific question is which Goku will you use? There is more Goku variants in fighters z than fire emblem characters in smash!
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Another specific question is which Goku will you use? There is more Goku variants in fighters z than fire emblem characters in smash!
FighterZ did that to sell us on DLC.

If Goku was ever in Smash, you can bet there'd be a down B to charge a meter and every time you fill it, he gets a new Super Saiyan form.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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As much as clones and three versions of Link/two versions of Zelda get criticism, I honestly think there might be something to having two variations of most famous Nintendo/guest fighters in the next game, with the twist being that one is drawn from the Smash 4/Ultimate concept of having a very faithful moveset that feels like something out of their games while the other is more 64/Melee like in being spiritually inspired by its respective franchise.

I don't know, I think there's potential value to a Smash title that could both rock a more canon like Ganondorf while at the same time sported a Mega Man with less direct translation from the classic games. Basically allow the creativity needed in directly pulling from the source and inventing playstyles to both bloom in the core design.
 
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Aligo

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As much as clones and three versions of Link/two versions of Zelda get criticism, I honestly think there might be something to having two variations of most famous Nintendo/guest fighters in the next game, with the twist being that one is drawn from the Smash 4/Ultimate concept of having a very faithful moveset that feels like something out of their games while the other is more 64/Melee like in being spiritually inspired by its respective franchise.

I don't know, I think there's potential value to a Smash title that could both rock a more canon like Ganondorf while at the same time sported a Mega Man with less direct translation from the classic games. Basically allow the creativity needed in directly pulling from the source and inventing playstyles to both bloom in the core design.
I like this idea, though I imagine some will ask "What is to be done for characters which don't really have canon stuff to go off of?"
 

Wario Wario Wario

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As much as clones and three versions of Link/two versions of Zelda get criticism, I honestly think there might be something to having two variations of most famous Nintendo/guest fighters in the next game, with the twist being that one is drawn from the Smash 4/Ultimate concept of having a very faithful moveset that feels like something out of their games while the other is more 64/Melee like in being spiritually inspired by its respective franchise.

I don't know, I think there's potential value to a Smash title that could both rock a more canon like Ganondorf while at the same time sported a Mega Man with less direct translation from the classic games. Basically allow the creativity needed in directly pulling from the source and inventing playstyles to both bloom in the core design.
I feel custom moves had a bit of missed potential to be the perfect unifier between classic Smash design and modern Smash design - make the default moves form a cohesive playstyle for competitive players, then load the custom moves with as many references as possible with no regard for balance or playstyle for casual players who just want to throw some Dead Man's Volleys.
 
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Quillion

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As much as clones and three versions of Link/two versions of Zelda get criticism, I honestly think there might be something to having two variations of most famous Nintendo/guest fighters in the next game, with the twist being that one is drawn from the Smash 4/Ultimate concept of having a very faithful moveset that feels like something out of their games while the other is more 64/Melee like in being spiritually inspired by its respective franchise.

I don't know, I think there's potential value to a Smash title that could both rock a more canon like Ganondorf while at the same time sported a Mega Man with less direct translation from the classic games. Basically allow the creativity needed in directly pulling from the source and inventing playstyles to both bloom in the core design.
That's certainly a way to please both sides of the "inspired-yet-conceded" movesets of 64/Melee(/Brawl) and the super-faithful movesets of Smash 4-on.

But still, there are movesets like Samus or Kirby that feel like they satisfy both paradigms quite well IMO. There's also Aligo Aligo 's concern of certain characters not having the material to have that "super-faithful" Smash 4-on style moveset.

While it will require sacrifice on both ends, I really think the best, most efficient compromise is to smooth out the extremes to Samus/Kirby level. Give Ganondorf a bit more swordplay and reign in Mega Man's projectiles.

I feel custom moves had a bit of missed potential to be the perfect unifier between classic Smash design and modern Smash design - make the default moves form a cohesive playstyle for competitive players, then load the custom moves with as many references as possible with no regard for balance or playstyle for casual players who just want to throw some Dead Man's Volleys.
That sounds nice, but I guess we'd have to go with an unequal distribution because, as Aligo Aligo said, not every character has the canonical material to fill in two options for every B input.
 

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Honestly, most of the movesets are fine.

I just think that not everyone is going to gell with every character on are 80+ roster. That's why the roster is so vast. Gameplay wise, there's something for everyone. If every new character started getting Shulk or Steve level gimmicks, I'd share the concerns, but we still get simple movesets like Ridley, K.Rool, Banjo, Byleth, and Sora. We have gimmicks that are really easy to understand like Joker, Min Min, Pyra/Mythra and Inkling.

I'd also be concerned if gimmick movesets took over the competitive scene, but they largely haven't. Sure you have your Steve doomposting and DLC characters being kinda nutty, but majority of the top tiers are just average Smash characters like Pikachu, Wolf, Sonic and Roy.

People can have a preference. Instead of tweaking characters to some perfect middle ground (that honestly doesn't exist), I think its healthier to accept that Smash has created a huge array of playstyles, and that both simple and complex characters are valid.
 

Diddy Kong

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As much as clones and three versions of Link/two versions of Zelda get criticism, I honestly think there might be something to having two variations of most famous Nintendo/guest fighters in the next game, with the twist being that one is drawn from the Smash 4/Ultimate concept of having a very faithful moveset that feels like something out of their games while the other is more 64/Melee like in being spiritually inspired by its respective franchise.

I don't know, I think there's potential value to a Smash title that could both rock a more canon like Ganondorf while at the same time sported a Mega Man with less direct translation from the classic games. Basically allow the creativity needed in directly pulling from the source and inventing playstyles to both bloom in the core design.
Just add characters in with alternative playstyles. For example Fire Mario, Sword or Fighter Kirby, Ice Beam Samus, you name it. Many games have this right ? This way you can keep characters like Dr.Mario and Young / Toon Link around without the special privileges of them being Mario and Link variations.
 

Diddy Kong

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As much as I think a variation system would be sick, I can't even imagine the sheer amount of dev time it would take for both the base roster and its DLC.
Oh it would certainly be much work ! Unless they port Ultimate or significantly build off from it's engine and base roster. It's an idea I had on my mind for a while, whilst also thinking of clones, alts and you name it.
 

Grim "Anubis" Reaper

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They’re separate characters because they don’t produce the same results in a fight. Smash cares about this factor, unlike other games. Quite literally the only one who has an issue is Daisy, dur to having no tangible differences.

They’re as special-priveleged as Ganondorf is to Captain Falcon. In other words, not at all. Even if results could be fixed now, it messes with the costume total, making it large and obnoxious. As of now, the game handles it efficiently. Also, styles only work if the characters’ models are about the same. So with them being effectively different sizes, it functions entirely differently. All 3 Links can’t be put together. Yink and Tink? Sure. Mario, Luigi, and Dr. Mario, sure. But, say Samus and Zamus? Nope. Echo stacking was the only feasible solution we were going to get anyway, as it doesn’t screw with results. At most, among the entire cast, only Dr. Mario would’ve made sense as another Echo. Isn’t one, but still.
 

Quillion

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As much as I think a variation system would be sick, I can't even imagine the sheer amount of dev time it would take for both the base roster and its DLC.
So why not just make alternate styles only for the characters with the source material to make it work? Quality over quantity there.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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So why not just make alternate styles only for the characters with the source material to make it work? Quality over quantity there.
It'd probably be better to focus on new faces rather than "look, it's Mario for a third time but with more fire"

Alternate styles should be kept for the very end of development if they have time for it, like how they've handled clones in the past, which means there's probably not gonna be a lot of those.
 
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Quillion

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It'd probably be better to focus on new faces rather than "look, it's Mario for a third time but with more fire"

Alternate styles should be kept for the very end of development if they have time for it, like how they've handled clones in the past, which means there's probably not gonna be a lot of those.
TBF, Mario has enough fire in his base moveset, so that wouldn't be worth the effort.

Now as for something like Mario with a hammer...

And hey, if they put variant movesets at the end of development, good! That means the variants won't dip into the overly referential design of Mega Man and certain other Smash 4-on characters since they won't have the time.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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I don't get the Smash fandom's obsession with villains - or, more specifically, main villains/final bosses. Even ignoring the not-okay-ness of including a suicidal brainwashed child soldier in the funny Sonic vs. Pac-Man on a Mario Kart track game, I don't see the appeal in Porky or Masked Man compared to say, Master Belch or Fasaad from a moveset perspective.

That being said, Giovanni would be pretty damn cool.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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I don't get the Smash fandom's obsession with villains - or, more specifically, main villains/final bosses. Even ignoring the not-okay-ness of including a suicidal brainwashed child soldier in the funny Sonic vs. Pac-Man on a Mario Kart track game, I don't see the appeal in Porky or Masked Man compared to say, Master Belch or Fasaad from a moveset perspective.
I think it's not really a moveset perspective more than it is the idea of playing the villain itself.

We don't get to play the villains often in video games so it's always nice whenever that happens.
 
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fogbadge

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I don't get the Smash fandom's obsession with villains - or, more specifically, main villains/final bosses. Even ignoring the not-okay-ness of including a suicidal brainwashed child soldier in the funny Sonic vs. Pac-Man on a Mario Kart track game, I don't see the appeal in Porky or Masked Man compared to say, Master Belch or Fasaad from a moveset perspective.

That being said, Giovanni would be pretty damn cool.
It’s a bit late to be worried about the tonal clash
 

Quillion

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I don't get the Smash fandom's obsession with villains - or, more specifically, main villains/final bosses. Even ignoring the not-okay-ness of including a suicidal brainwashed child soldier in the funny Sonic vs. Pac-Man on a Mario Kart track game, I don't see the appeal in Porky or Masked Man compared to say, Master Belch or Fasaad from a moveset perspective.

That being said, Giovanni would be pretty damn cool.
I think more side characters would be a good step for Smash, so side villains would fit nicely with that.

You know, since Consul N in Xenoblade 3 is essentially the "Darth Vader" of that game, maybe he could be the Xenoblade series' first villain rather than Egil, Jin, or Z.

Him without Noah would actually be perfect.
 

Aligo

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I think more side characters would be a good step for Smash, so side villains would fit nicely with that.

You know, since Consul N in Xenoblade 3 is essentially the "Darth Vader" of that game, maybe he could be the Xenoblade series' first villain rather than Egil, Jin, or Z.

Him without Noah would actually be perfect.
To be honest I would prefer a character from XCX or a potential XC4, 3 has rather undeveloped characters, especially so for antagonists. It doesn't help that there will probably be a new game by the time the next smash is released (it will be some time before the namco team finish work on Tekken stuff).

On top of that you would have a smash 4 Roy situation where a character added has the same name as a much more popular character, in this case N from Pokémon.

If you are hankering for first party villains for the roster, which is a good opinion by the way, I would suggest the obligatory fire emblem rep be a villain, as FE produces pretty good ones that come with non-sword movesets (would probably also be a heavy, can never have enough heavies).
 

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On top of that you would have a smash 4 Roy situation where a character added has the same name as a much more popular character, in this case N from Pokémon.
Considering both of Nintendo's Roys are playable in the same game, this does not matter.

Gonna be honest, this point is grasping for straws unless you somehow think Pokemon's N is somehow going to be included.
 

Aligo

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Considering both of Nintendo's Roys are playable in the same game, this does not matter.

Gonna be honest, this point is grasping for straws unless you somehow think Pokemon's N is somehow going to be included.
It isn't really even a minor point, just something funny to bring up. The main thing is that there is far better candidates for villain characters or just characters in general than consul N, and by the time a new smash comes out the character won't even be relevant.
 

Quillion

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If you are hankering for first party villains for the roster, which is a good opinion by the way, I would suggest the obligatory fire emblem rep be a villain, as FE produces pretty good ones that come with non-sword movesets (would probably also be a heavy, can never have enough heavies).
If that means we're going to continue with "new face from rotating cast franchise", that gets me rather conflicted.

On one hand, doing it for villains is a good way to mix it up without killing the trend entirely.

On the other hand, I still think "new face from rotating cast franchise" isn't gonna be sustainable. I've made my peace with Pokémon or even Fire Emblem overtaking Mario in roster space, but I don't want them to keep accumulating and accumulating new characters forever. Plus there's the issue of potential old faces not yet in Smash that are left behind.
 

Aligo

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If that means we're going to continue with "new face from rotating cast franchise", that gets me rather conflicted.

On one hand, doing it for villains is a good way to mix it up without killing the trend entirely.

On the other hand, I still think "new face from rotating cast franchise" isn't gonna be sustainable. I've made my peace with Pokémon or even Fire Emblem overtaking Mario in roster space, but I don't want them to keep accumulating and accumulating new characters forever. Plus there's the issue of potential old faces not yet in Smash that are left behind.
I doubt that will come to pass. Pokémon shedded characters every game bar ultimate/melee and fire emblem will probably reduce some its characters into alt costumes to make room for new characters (still think they should lump all of the less unique swordfighers into a mii-style custom swordfighter). If the next smash isn't an enhanced port of ultimate, expect cuts to occur in the "rotating cast" franchises.

As for left behind characters, it depends on the competition both within and out of their franchise is. Dixie Kong would have an easier time than a past gen fire emblem character for instance.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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I may have already said this on this thread, but I really dislike Subspace Emissary. Takes itself way too seriously for the cast it has, has some of the most bland settings I've ever seen in a game, and contains some utterly nonsensical lore in the Dojo paratext. Even as a kid I thought it was dull and pretentious.
 

fogbadge

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I may have already said this on this thread, but I really dislike Subspace Emissary. Takes itself way too seriously for the cast it has, has some of the most bland settings I've ever seen in a game, and contains some utterly nonsensical lore in the Dojo paratext. Even as a kid I thought it was dull and pretentious.
it was meant to be serious?
 

UserKev

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As of late, Pokemon stages have been very rehashed. The stadium trope hasn't been exciting since Brawl and Sakurai doesn't seem to know what he wants to do anymore regarding Pokemon home stages.

Bell Tower, Alola or even a Lighthouse stage are some options that shouldn't have been passed over, but unfortunately has.
 

Aligo

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As of late, Pokemon stages have been very rehashed. The stadium trope hasn't been exciting since Brawl and Sakurai doesn't seem to know what he wants to do anymore regarding Pokemon home stages.

Bell Tower, Alola or even a Lighthouse stage are some options that shouldn't have been passed over, but unfortunately has.
Agreed. Ultra space would have also been a good option for gen 7.
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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Honestly I would've prefered a Pokémon Go stage over an Alola stage. Even though the overworld would technically be another grass stage, I feel it's semi-sci-fi semi-grounded look is really unique, and you could probably come up with a really cool gimmick related to catching Pokémon as allies.
 

Demon Dragon

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As of late, Pokemon stages have been very rehashed. The stadium trope hasn't been exciting since Brawl and Sakurai doesn't seem to know what he wants to do anymore regarding Pokemon home stages.

Bell Tower, Alola or even a Lighthouse stage are some options that shouldn't have been passed over, but unfortunately has.
I feel the same way with the Sonic stages. Like we get it, Green Hill is nostalgic, but how about Chemical Plant or City Escape?
 

Grim "Anubis" Reaper

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I doubt that will come to pass. Pokémon shedded characters every game bar ultimate/melee and fire emblem will probably reduce some its characters into alt costumes to make room for new characters (still think they should lump all of the less unique swordfighers into a mii-style custom swordfighter). If the next smash isn't an enhanced port of ultimate, expect cuts to occur in the "rotating cast" franchises.

As for left behind characters, it depends on the competition both within and out of their franchise is. Dixie Kong would have an easier time than a past gen fire emblem character for instance.
Costumes ain't happening. Outside of a new director. They're different characters. You're only going to get costumes made into new characters and that's it. They don't actually play the same either. Every Fire Emblem character has actual tangible differences. The only one to play pretty much identically is Daisy, with Richter and Dark Samus having legitimately different elemental differences. Daisy's issue is "just unique hurtboxes", which barely show up/are notable.
 
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