Unpopular Smash 5 Opinions!

Mogisthelioma

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Oh, so we're doing rapid fire opinions?

-Donkey Kong should have a suicide move.
-All of the superheavies, not just Bowser, should have the tough guy effect.
-Roy and Chrom should have their airspeeds nerfed.
-Snake needs nerfs in a lot of areas but I'm not going to rant about one fighter
-The new stage builder is lackluster and is missing several basic things I thought they would include, but it's certainly an improvement over whatever Smash 4 had.
-The giant wave of Shrek and Dio miis were funny at first but now the mii sharing feature has just become a dump IMO.
-We should get the old burying mechanic from Smash 4 back where you only take 50% knockback when buried.
-Basing balances off of online and basic complaints isn't as flawed as some might think, since it accounts for the vast majority of Smash players. Although I agree that higher level gameplay should get more input.
-World of Light can't hold a candle to Subspace. I know some people liked it for its fast gameplay but I found it to be repetitive and lackluster. The next Smash should be void of spirits completely and have an actual story, and give us trophies back.
-The people who complain about Sakurai not caring about Nintendo simply because he put extra effort into some of the third parties are just as awful as the people who unironically want fourth part characters in Smash.
 

UserKev

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As far as third party, I want more characters like Rayman, Spyro, Crash, creative entities. I'm not claiming them to be anime but, I generally don't want anymore characters specifically like Joker.
 
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Okay, here's one that I'm sure is actually unpopular for once:
Sakurai's work ethic of working obscene amounts of hours as well as working while he's very sick is not admirable or inspiring. If anything, it's deeply unsettling and part of a wider problem of overworking in games development. No game, not even Smash Bros., is worth the well-being of its developers.
 

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Okay, here's one that I'm sure is actually unpopular for once:
Sakurai's work ethic of working obscene amounts of hours as well as working while he's very sick is not admirable or inspiring. If anything, it's deeply unsettling and part of a wider problem of overworking in games development. No game, not even Smash Bros., is worth the well-being of its developers.
Preach. Overworking to that degree should never be glamorized. It's not a show of good work ethic, it's a showcase of the worst parts of corporate Japan and their insane standards that they make people live up to.
-Roy and Chrom should have their airspeeds nerfed.
Literally why though? Their airspeed is meant to counteract the fact that Blazer and Soaring Slash are pretty terrible for recovery.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Okay, here's one that I'm sure is actually unpopular for once:
Sakurai's work ethic of working obscene amounts of hours as well as working while he's very sick is not admirable or inspiring. If anything, it's deeply unsettling and part of a wider problem of overworking in games development. No game, not even Smash Bros., is worth the well-being of its developers.
The dude's put himself on an IV fluid. He really does need to calm down, Japan's notorious for death by overworking but crunch has somehow become a standard in the game industry to the point the New York Times even commented on it. ****'s lethal and unethical
 

Gimmick-Hater

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I've never found competitive Smash to be all that fun to play, or watch. I'm not sure why, but competitive Smash just doesn't click with me the way other fighting games do. It just seems sort of bland. That's why I've always preferred Nintendo's tournaments where items are on, and some of the more crazier stages come into play. There's just something I find more enjoyable about watching someone make a comeback play abusing items, or stage hazards.

Also, before anyone says it, I know that no one is forcing me to watch competitive Smash, and that other people like different things. Also, like I said earlier, I don't enjoy playing competitive Smash, but I don't have any friends that play the game so I usually stick to quick play. As a result, it's hard to ignore competitive play when you have a GSP of over 4.5 million, and you're constantly faced against people with no items & omega stages only despite your rule set being the exact opposite.
 

Arthur97

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Sakurai seems to take it to the extreme though. Not saying the culture doesn't breed that kind of behavior, but he seems to be on the even more radical end, and given you don't hear about it much from other Nintendo devs, they either keep it quiet, or he does it to himself. That or I've just somehow missed it.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Sakurai seems to take it to the extreme though. Not saying the culture doesn't breed that kind of behavior, but he seems to be on the even more radical end, and given you don't hear about it much from other Nintendo devs, they either keep it quiet, or he does it to himself. That or I've just somehow missed it.
Nintendo is apparently an exception to overly harsh work ethics which means he's likely doing it to himself, but it's still incredibly destructive and dangerous behaviour. I know that in the social threads I frequent people got incredibly concerned when he revealed the IV fluid and stuff
 

Arthur97

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Nintendo is apparently an exception to overly harsh work ethics which means he's likely doing it to himself, but it's still incredibly destructive and dangerous behaviour. I know that in the social threads I frequent people got incredibly concerned when he revealed the IV fluid and stuff
Especially since, doesn't he head Sora? And since Nintendo apparently isn't making him, yeah. The IV is a cause for concern, but at the same time, it's not like he's being forced. The man should definitely delegate more.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Especially since, doesn't he head Sora? And since Nintendo apparently isn't making him, yeah. The IV is a cause for concern, but at the same time, it's not like he's being forced. The man should definitely delegate more.
Yeah Sakurai is a freelance developer. It's not being forced, no, but it's concerning for the man's wellbeing nonetheless
 

Mogisthelioma

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Literally why though? Their airspeed is meant to counteract the fact that Blazer and Soaring Slash are pretty terrible for recovery.
Oh I agree with that, but every time I see them zipping through the air I imagine them as paper airplanes doing loop-de-loops across the stage and it's weird.

I'd rather them nerf their airspeed but buff their horizontal recovery distance (and buff it by a lot for crying out loud).
 

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Oh I agree with that, but every time I see them zipping through the air I imagine them as paper airplanes doing loop-de-loops across the stage and it's weird.

I'd rather them nerf their airspeed but buff their horizontal recovery distance (and buff it by a lot for crying out loud).
I'd say it kinda makes sense for Chrom, at least, to have good air speed. He kinda jumps a lot in Awakening. The guy gets some serious air. :p
 
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Yeah, as much as I think Sakurai's work behavior is concerning and emblematic of issues with working culture in Japan, he is rather uniquely qualified to be able to choose to put in that much effort with regards to his games. If a person truly wants to dedicate themselves to a craft like that and get to a point of sacrificing physical health, I don't think we're allowed to really take issue with that. Despite saying that, I wonder how much of his work ethic (if any) is learned behavior from the past and the society he has grown up in and in that case it can become way more problematic.

It's a messy issue that seems like quite an asterisk next to the otherwise solid legacy of Smash that I doubt we'll ever really get much information about. Plus, it comes down to a lot of ideas concerning how you define autonomy and if learned behaviors, even if chosen, are problematic. I don't think we've heard anything from Sora all that negative, but does Sakurai working as much as he does compel other people to work longer and harder? Again, we're just not going to really know and you can have a whole debate around this issue, but it's definitely the part of Smash the continues to raise my eyebrow the most. Which characters get in, which modes are in, what tier characters are, etc. are all really fun to discuss about a franchise I love. But I dare say the work ethic conversations may be the most real conversation we can have regarding the game.

I just really hope that Sakurai has taken the amount of time and effort to make self-reflections that lead him to personally choose that kind of work ethic as opposed to the alternatives... (And I suspect this conversation may be touching a bit into politics more than I think we're supposed to on forums and especially this thread).
 

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Oh, so we're doing rapid fire opinions?

-All of the superheavies, not just Bowser, should have the tough guy effect.
-Roy and Chrom should have their airspeeds nerfed.
King K. Rool having the tough guy mechanic, yes. All the other super heavies, not so much.

As for Roy and Chrom, their good air speed makes up for how mediocre their overall recoveries are. You'd basically be making their already mediocre recoveries even worse by nerfing their air speed.
 
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This fanbase needs to be far less passionate about supporting characters-- far more often than not, it just results in irritation and rage. The amount of characters added primarily because of fan support can pretty much be counted on one hand.

>Ridley took 15 years of demand and memes to get in.
>K. Rool likely won the Smash Ballot and then got snubbed in DLC, only to be added in Ultimate's basegame.
>Chrom and Dark Samus are clones and thus far easier to implement.

And all of their series range from "active and growing" to "on a bit of a hiatus but not dead", with the unique ones being major recurring antagonists (with K. Rool admittedly having taken a break from that role).

Cynical? Yes, but I also don't see anything wrong with people learning to keep their expectations in check.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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This fanbase needs to be far less passionate about supporting characters-- far more often than not, it just results in irritation and rage. The amount of characters added primarily because of fan support can pretty much be counted on one hand.

>Ridley took 15 years of demand and memes to get in.
>K. Rool likely won the Smash Ballot and then got snubbed in DLC, only to be added in Ultimate's basegame.
>Chrom and Dark Samus are clones and thus far easier to implement.

And all of their series range from "active and growing" to "on a bit of a hiatus but not dead", with the unique ones being major recurring antagonists (with K. Rool admittedly having taken a break from that role).

Cynical? Yes, but I also don't see anything wrong with people learning to keep their expectations in check.
I mean, I agree people should be less bonkers about characters but to say only 4 got in through fan demand is absurd.

That ignores the Melee picks that were chosen through popularity (through a poll no less), the Brawl picks, Sonic who they delayed the game to add, the Smash 4 picks like Mega Man and Little Mac, Simon, Etc.
 
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I mean, I agree people should be less bonkers about characters but to say only 4 got in through fan demand is absurd.

That ignores the Melee picks that were chosen through popularity (through a poll no less), the Brawl picks, Sonic who they delayed the game to add, the Smash 4 picks like Mega Man and Little Mac, Simon, Etc.
I didn't say fan demand had only influenced those characters; I said they were the 4 that we know were added primarily because of fan demand.
It's not like if the fans hadn't demanded Bowser or Meta Knight or Mega Man they wouldn't have showed up; even Little Mac had the comparatively recent Punch-Out Wii in between Brawl and Smash 4.
 

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I didn't say fan demand had only influenced those characters; I said they were the 4 that we know were added primarily because of fan demand.
It's not like if the fans hadn't demanded Bowser or Meta Knight or Mega Man they wouldn't have showed up; even Little Mac had the comparatively recent Punch-Out Wii in between Brawl and Smash 4.
Except we have cited interviews about why characters were picked. Often times its fan demand. Heck Ganondorf was a last minute clone. And even he was put in because he was a popular choice and was possible due to bodytype.

Fan demand plays a bigger part then you're letting on.
 
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Ze Diglett

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As excited as I am for the Fighter Pass and how Nintendo is (hopefully) gonna surprise us with its contents, we're kind of hitting critical mass in terms of the Smash roster and, outside of a select few third-party heavy hitters, I worry that any potential reveal is going to be average at best going forward.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Depends on what you define "fun" as, since that is subjective. I also said fewer characters or more development time, but you only focused on the former part. This leads me to believe that I cannot have an honest discussion with you, so nothing more needs to be said.
True, fun is subjective. But having more choices to pick from arguably adds more to that fun than having a perfectly balanced game where all characters are standardized and feel samey.

Balance is necessary, but is useless by itself. It doesn't inherently make a game fun. When characters are buffed, it's with the purpose of making them more fun to play as rather than making the experience more balanced.

I guess I must have just imagined all that Mario Kart I actually played.
Nah, the problem is that you when you think of the Blue Shell you probably only think of the instances it "stole" games from you, therefore like many other people, you disregard it as a bad item with no place in the game. That kind of bias leaves little room for clear-headed judgement.

Granted, the shell presented problems of its own since its introduction and the series has been slow in introducing ways to play around it. But at least in MK8 Deluxe, dealing with it is has become less problematic than in the other entries.
 
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slrigeigdew

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As excited as I am for the Fighter Pass and how Nintendo is (hopefully) gonna surprise us with its contents, we're kind of hitting critical mass in terms of the Smash roster and, outside of a select few third-party heavy hitters, I worry that any potential reveal is going to be average at best going forward.
This. It's even harder when your dream pick is literally the first character shown in the Fighter Pass. It's like "Damn, is this what to expect or is it all downhill from here?" That being said speculating about characters and actually seeing them in action are two different things so I'll probably hyped for the next 4 regardless of who they are.

As far as third party, I want more characters like Rayman, Spyro, Crash, creative entities. I'm not claiming them to be anime but, I generally don't want anymore characters specifically like Joker.
Can someone please describe to me what people mean when they use the term "anime character". Not even joking, this gets thrown around alot I feel like it's lost whatever meaning it originally had.
 
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Can someone please describe to me what people mean when they use the term "anime character". Not even joking, this gets thrown around alot I feel like it's lost whatever meaning it originally had.
Pretty sure it's just about wanting less of one aesthetical choice and more of another. Less Japanese stylised cartoony characters and more Western stylised cartoony characters. Refering to any gaming character as an anime character is weird I agree, but it's kind of obvious from the context that UserKev just wants a bit more balance in recent newcomer aesthetics.

And there isn't anything wrong with that.

Hell, I'd be down for the likes of Rayman, Spyro and Crash for similar reasons...that and they're all solid third party choices. Too bad Japan screwed Spyro up so incredibly badly that the character flopped super hard. Still hoping for that Switch release Nintendo...come on E3...
 
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As excited as I am for the Fighter Pass and how Nintendo is (hopefully) gonna surprise us with its contents, we're kind of hitting critical mass in terms of the Smash roster and, outside of a select few third-party heavy hitters, I worry that any potential reveal is going to be average at best going forward.
Of course, that just leads back to (six month) old question of "Was Joker Frompersonafive the "biggest" reveal to get people sold on the Fighter's Pass, or was he just a taste of what's to come?".
Personally, I'm leaning more towards the former.
 

TheDuke54

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Okay, here's one that I'm sure is actually unpopular for once:
Sakurai's work ethic of working obscene amounts of hours as well as working while he's very sick is not admirable or inspiring. If anything, it's deeply unsettling and part of a wider problem of overworking in games development. No game, not even Smash Bros., is worth the well-being of its developers.
Unless I am mistaken, hasn't this been a thing with Japan since the 1980s? I remember watching a movie about a car manufacturing plant in America that got bailed out by a company in Japan that went overseas to oversee everything.

It does an alright job at showcasing both sides. Or from what I remember. And in the beginning the main Japanese guy is being humiliated by groveling in front of his superiors for not being 'good enough'
 
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Mogisthelioma

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Can someone please describe to me what people mean when they use the term "anime character". Not even joking, this gets thrown around alot I feel like it's lost whatever meaning it originally had.
The best way I can define "anime character" is anything that largely takes form from Japanese art techniques. Usually the hair, eyes, outfit and facial features stand out more than the rest of the figure and separate them from the rest of the cast (citation: literally any anime where a main character has been stuck in a crowd or school setting). So Fire Emblem, BotW (yes, the developers said they consider the game to be anime style), Persona, Final Fantasy, etc.
 

slrigeigdew

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The best way I can define "anime character" is anything that largely takes form from Japanese art techniques. Usually the hair, eyes, outfit and facial features stand out more than the rest of the figure and separate them from the rest of the cast (citation: literally any anime where a main character has been stuck in a crowd or school setting). So Fire Emblem, BotW (yes, the developers said they consider the game to be anime style), Persona, Final Fantasy, etc.
Pretty sure it's just about wanting less of one aesthetical choice and more of another. Less Japanese stylised cartoony characters and more Western stylised cartoony characters. Refering to any gaming character as an anime character is weird I agree, but it's kind of obvious from the context that UserKev just wants a bit more balance in recent newcomer aesthetics.
Thanks for clarifying. I just assumed when people said anime they meant "humanoid sword user" (I.E. most of Fire Emblem) but then I saw it applied to Joker and characters that dont even use a sword and got confused.

Of course, that just leads back to (six month) old question of "Was Joker Frompersonafive the "biggest" reveal to get people sold on the Fighter's Pass, or was he just a taste of what's to come?".
Personally, I'm leaning more towards the former.
I don't think getting people sold on the Fighter's Pass and being a taste of what to come are mutually exclusive. Call it a hunch but I think they're either going to alternate between safe picks and unexpected ones (with #2 and #4 being safe and #3 and #5 being unexpected.) or save the really hype ones for last. Speaking of which:

Unpopular opinions time: I don't think we're getting a double reveal at E3. Just cuz Sakurai has done work on #2 and #3 doesn't mean they're equally finished and ready to show off. I think they'll announce character #2 at E3 and announce character #3 shortly after they drop the next major patch.

Also don't think Nintendo would just let another company present a smash character trailer at their conference just because they own the rights to a DLC fighter. Wouldn't make much sense imo.
 
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Pretty sure it's just about wanting less of one aesthetical choice and more of another. Less Japanese stylised cartoony characters and more Western stylised cartoony characters. Refering to any gaming character as an anime character is weird I agree, but it's kind of obvious from the context that UserKev just wants a bit more balance in recent newcomer aesthetics.

And there isn't anything wrong with that.

Hell, I'd be down for the likes of Rayman, Spyro and Crash for similar reasons...that and they're all solid third party choices. Too bad Japan screwed Spyro up so incredibly badly that the character flopped super hard. Still hoping for that Switch release Nintendo...come on E3...
Considering the fact that out of the 8 unique newcomers we got for Smash Ultimate, only three really fit the human, "anime aesthetic," I think things have been plenty balanced. Those three are Joker, Inkling, and Simon Belmont. Inkling is almost completely unconventional in terms of a humanoid character design and downright turns into a Squid. Simon seems heavily influenced by more Western trends as well and doesn't fit the anime aesthetic anywhere near as well as his Echo in Richter. I understand that of the five Echoes added, they are all human/humanoid, but their also generally the most obvious and easy characters to make Echoes.

I know Smash 4's DLC was much more heavily skewed, but Smash Ultimate has actually done a quite commendable job in the opposite direction...
 

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The best way I can define "anime character" is anything that largely takes form from Japanese art techniques. Usually the hair, eyes, outfit and facial features stand out more than the rest of the figure and separate them from the rest of the cast (citation: literally any anime where a main character has been stuck in a crowd or school setting). So Fire Emblem, BotW (yes, the developers said they consider the game to be anime style), Persona, Final Fantasy, etc.
Honestly, Zelda as a whole falls into it, I'd say. Not just BotW. :p

Zelda's been taking design cues from anime since the very first game.
 

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Honestly, Zelda as a whole falls into it, I'd say. Not just BotW. :p

Zelda's been taking design cues from anime since the very first game.
Zelda 1 Link oozes 90's/80's anime aesthetic.

That fluffy poofy long hair I can trace to every single anime character from that era.
 
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Of course, that just leads back to (six month) old question of "Was Joker Frompersonafive the "biggest" reveal to get people sold on the Fighter's Pass, or was he just a taste of what's to come?".
Personally, I'm leaning more towards the former.
I'd probably say the former too. Revealing the more popular and hype characters first in order to sell people on the fighters pass as soon as possible while leaving more niche/surprise picks for last. It's sort of how he's always done things with a few exceptions here and there. (referring to the likes of Ice Climbers and Wii Fit Trainer)
 

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JoJo memes aren't funny, and they've gotten really repetive. It's getting tiresome seeing Smash characters doing these weird posses, or the same image of a character from Smash walking towards another. It seems like there's no escape from these memes (youtube, reddit, and even this site). I really wish they'd die off. It's especially annoying as someone who plays Simon, and constantly getting reminded of how Simon is like a JoJo character (despite the fact that Castlevania pre-dates JoJo).
 

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Zelda 1 Link oozes 90's/80's anime aesthetic.

That fluffy poofy long hair I can trace to every single anime character from that era.
I miss fluffy long haired Link. I'd love to have him back as the default Link for the next Smash bros.
 

JaiTheGuy

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I understand that Smash is no longer a celebration of Nintendo History, but rather gaming history as a whole. However, I wholeheartedly believe that 3rd Party characters with hardly any Nintendo relevance (Joker, Cloud) shouldn't really be in Smash. I would prefer 3rd Party characters like Rayman, Phoenix Wright and Leon Kennedy.
 
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