Q&A Unleashing a 2-D Horror - A Game and Watch Thread

[shapular]

Did they change his sounds? Sounds like he's screaming every time he double jumps.

Edit: Looks like they changed all his non-black colors too. Pretty sure the red, blue, and green are closer to Melee G&W. I don't get why PMDT insists on making pointless unwanted changes like this.

 

[Rᴏb]

That change was wanted tho, the brawl colors blended in with a lot of backgrounds and were hard to see. I've been begging for melee team colors forever.

 

[shapular]

That change was wanted tho, the brawl colors blended in with a lot of backgrounds and were hard to see. I've been begging for melee team colors forever.

That's not really a good enough reason to change the colors though. I guess it's not really that big of a deal since almost every G&W I've seen uses black anyway. I'm just always opposed to things being changed from Brawl that don't need to be changed since I want PM to look and feel as much like Brawl as possible.

I did always hate the old yellow though, and I like the new cyan better.

 

[jtm94]

I do like the new colors. Pink is more hype than I predicted.

 

[Dakpo]

Hey guys, Dakpo here. Today, I will be doing an "ask me anything" on reddit. This is part of a series they are doing on high level players. Please feel free to drop by and ask anything!
http://www.reddit.com/…/comme…/2mkjj2/amondays_week_2_dakpo/

 

[Narpas_sword]

Hey guys, I'm looking to play a bit more GaW, but there's one thing holding me back.
I keep losing my double jump when i try to up b then d-jump.
Do you guys have tap jump off, or is there a way to avoid burning your jump?

 

[Black Bean]

Hey guys, I'm looking to play a bit more GaW, but there's one thing holding me back.
I keep losing my double jump when i try to up b then d-jump.
Do you guys have tap jump off, or is there a way to avoid burning your jump?

I had this problem until I turned tap jump off. I was a super noob back then, though. I'm sure there's a way to do it without losing. It might require precise timing.

Come to think of it, you get a ground jump and an up b and a double jump, with up b and double jump interchangeable. If you tap jump from the ground and press b without ever having moved your control stick from the up setting, I figure your double jump should be preserved. I've had similar problems playing 64 falcon and stringing uairs. I always tap jumped, let go of the stick, and then input my uair, which caused me to unwillingly double jump. The trick is to keep the control stick in the up position.

Try that and see if it works

I do recommend turning tap jump off, though. That way you can mix up your recovery by doing up b first then your 2nd jump. I can't imagine avoiding this problem while you're airborne from a hit rather than your own ground jump. You would have already moved the stick away from the up position when you di the hit. I don't think it can be done in that situation, unless maybe your timing is hella great.

 

[Narpas_sword]

yea, but i dont want tap jump off for my other characters =p

and it's more when i recover, up b-ing thinking i've got my double to use, then death.

 

[shapular]

yea, but i dont want tap jump off for my other characters =p

You can do both. I turn tap jump on for some of my characters. Otherwise, the trick is to slowly tilt up instead of smashing up.

 

[Narpas_sword]

yea, i mean, i dont want to manage different sets of controls between name tags.

i'll try upbing slower, but i still manage to DJ when i do =/

 

[shapular]

yea, i mean, i dont want to manage different sets of controls between name tags.

i'll try upbing slower, but i still manage to DJ when i do =/

Another thing you could try is rotating up. I don't think that'll make you jump.

But you should seriously just turn tap jump off because tap jump is the devil.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Hey guys, I'm looking to play a bit more GaW, but there's one thing holding me back.
I keep losing my double jump when i try to up b then d-jump.
Do you guys have tap jump off, or is there a way to avoid burning your jump?

I made a detailed post about this in another thread where I outlined every way that you can use Up-B without accidentally jumping.

... The trick is to get the stick up without activating the jump. You can obviously turn tap jump off which will make pushing up never jump. Anther way is to learn to push the [control stick] only slightly up to an area where the jump doesn't register but the Up-B does. You can also tilt it slowly to the top which will not activate your jump, or you can do it while you are already hold up from the first jump (as you described). Lastly you can input up during the lag of another attack. Try a few of these out and see which works best.

Use these techniques and it'll help, but nothing but practicing precise control stick movement will save you 100% of the time.

 

[shapular]

Hey guys, Dakpo here. Today, I will be doing an "ask me anything" on reddit. This is part of a series they are doing on high level players. Please feel free to drop by and ask anything!
http://www.reddit.com/…/comme…/2mkjj2/amondays_week_2_dakpo/

They should do a series on mid-level players so I can have an AMA.

 

[Shmoopy]

ok so, idk but was it really necessary to remove Game & Watches parachute in Project M?
That was a major nerfing to me.(that was his improvement from Brawl I preferred)

 

[shapular]

ok so, idk but was it really necessary to remove Game & Watches parachute in Project M?
That was a major nerfing to me.(that was his improvement from Brawl I preferred)

It wasn't necessary, but for some reason PMBR decided we wanted a horrible version of G&W over a good version of G&W. Because Melee™.

 

[Shmoopy]

It wasn't necessary, but for some reason PMBR decided we wanted a horrible version of G&W over a good version of G&W. Because Melee™.

G&W needs the most recovery he can get. Without the parachute he's pretty much a full on glass cannon of 2D goodness

 

[Black Bean]

It wasn't necessary, but for some reason PMBR decided we wanted a horrible version of G&W over a good version of G&W. Because Melee™.

I haven't played brawl watch much but I believe removing parachute from up-b gives GnW a little more aerial mobility and buffs his combo game. Also, the parachute nair is brilliant. It's a staple in my game and that should be true for everybody else. Replacing that with fishbowl nair would effectively remove one of his kill moves.

 

[shapular]

G&W needs the most recovery he can get. Without the parachute he's pretty much a full on glass cannon of 2D goodness

His recovery is still fine. Bucket braking probably made him more not a glass cannon than the recovery did. It's the fishbowl I miss more than anything.

I haven't played brawl watch much but I believe removing parachute from up-b gives GnW a little more aerial mobility and buffs his combo game. Also, the parachute nair is brilliant. It's a staple in my game and that should be true for everybody else. Replacing that with fishbowl nair would effectively remove one of his kill moves.

G&W already has like 8 kill moves besides the parachute. He doesn't need it. They could have kept the jump out of up B even with parachute if they wanted, and fishbowl would help his combo game a ton.

 

[Black Bean]

... G&W already has like 8 kill moves ...

8? And I guess what I really mean is aerial kill move. And the parachute is valuable to his combo game as well.

I guess this just stems from us both not liking change. I never played brawl to an extent, and I learned GnW with his PM moveset. The critical thing to say is that I believe the parachute changes are here to stay, as far as PM is concerned. Reverting back to fishbowl nair and parachute after up-b would drastically change gdubs' combo game.

 

[shapular]

8? And I guess what I really mean is aerial kill move. And the parachute is valuable to his combo game as well.

I guess this just stems from us both not liking change. I never played brawl to an extent, and I learned GnW with his PM moveset. The critical thing to say is that I believe the parachute changes are here to stay, as far as PM is concerned. Reverting back to fishbowl nair and parachute after up-b would drastically change gdubs' combo game.

It's not that I don't like change. I mained G&W in Melee for a bit more than three years before Brawl came out. I just think Brawl G&W is a better design and he's obviously way better in his game than Melee G&W is.

Btw, the 8 moves I was referring to: fair, dair, fsmash, usmash, dsmash, ftilt, dtilt, side B (and bucket but that's highly situational so I didn't include it). Also, if you're not aware, up B is sort of a kill move offstage in Brawl, so that option coming back would have been cool. But I guess it is too late for PMDT to undo all the stupid character changes they did. ;.;

 

[EmptySky00]

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE GLASS CANNON ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
つ ◕_◕ ༽つGIVE PARACHUTE ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE FISH BOWL ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

 

[MrLul]

Yo, any feedback on what I was doing wrong in this?
http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/590350986?t=1h13m47s

 

[EmptySky00]

G&W needs the most recovery he can get. Without the parachute he's pretty much a full on glass cannon of 2D goodness

Aw, chute.

 

[Shmoopy]

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE GLASS CANNON ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
つ ◕_◕ ༽つGIVE PARACHUTE ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE FISH BOWL ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

I don't have any of those SRY!
just play G&W on Brawl if you want those

 

[Metmetm3t]

G&W doesn't have parachute Up-B because all slow floaty and high mobility recoveries have been removed. Think about ROB, Pit, Wario, or Toon Link. All of those characters have had major recovery changes similar to G&W. This is a design choice that forces players to think harder about the consequences of their recovery decisions. Whereas in Brawl those characters could often use a recovery move early and still wait it out if they didn't like what they see.

The Brawl Nair vs. Melee Nair argument is a little more complicated. They are both unique moves in their own way. They both cover a lot of space in a way that no other move in the game does. You could argue that the original intent for Melee nair was probably "because melee," and that's probably true. But after several versions it's stuck around for a reason. You have to look at the two moves from a character design standpoint.

Brawl Nair covers a huge spot and forces the opponent to respect it and move away. It is epitome of a zoning tool, which was cool for G&W in Brawl. Zoning was good in Brawl. The physics (especially on G&W) meant that spacing moves and retreating out of the opponent's zone put real pressure on. In PM that wouldn't work at all. Even with L-canceling, characters are too fast for zoning moves to work. Just try and use G&W's back air (a similar move) like that in PM and see how far it gets you. No, in PM a brawl-style nair would be used for juggling. It would be amazing for juggling, probably too good in fact. No other character has a juggling move that hangs around for longer than an air dodge. There would be no counter play, since you can't out range it and you can't avoid it characters would just be stuck in the nair vortex for fifty, sixty, seventy percent.

Meanwhile, Melee nair is straight forward. BOOM, hold that. It's a combo finisher that does a lot of damage and put's the opponent in a bad position. It doesn't bring up any significant balance problems and meshes well with the rest of G&W's play style.

The PMDT doesn't make changes on a whim. A lot of thought gets put into every piece of character design. G&W is no different, and I think, especially in 3.5, he's a solid character that is unique, fun, and has tournament viability.

 

[EmptySky00]

I don't have any of those SRY!
just play G&W on Brawl if you want those

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE FROSTY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

 

[Metmetm3t]

Yo, any feedback on what I was doing wrong in this?
http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/590350986?t=1h13m47s

For starters, work on your DI especially those Lucas dairs were rediculous. Second of all, make a read on your opponents recover BEFORE you go out to edge guard. You had a so many situations where you just jumped out and swung which lead to you coming home empty handed. Other than that, probably don't CP Lucas to Final. I don't think that stage really works out in our favor. PK Freeze is powerful there and it's too fast to bucket, and bacon spam isn't real anymore (if it ever was). Probably work on shielding more and your out of sheild game. You should be able to punish those river dances with Up-B OoS.

 

[Black Bean]

Yo, any feedback on what I was doing wrong in this?
http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/590350986?t=1h13m47s

What m3t said. Also, work on your l-canceling. You use sh fair quite a bit, and you definitely should. But you should be l-canceling them every time. And then if you flub it or hit on shield, you can instantly go to grab, jab, dsmash, dtilt, whatever.

dair as well.

I find f tilt is a beautiful ledge guard tool against a lucas/ness who is trying to sweetspot with pk thunder. I usually don't go off stage to fight them, unless they start a pk thunder and I think I can get there in time to gimp them. Use the ftilt to bait them into recovering high or tethering, and then work from there.

Glad to see a gdubs main in Florida! I live in Tampa but go to school in Arkansas. I'm really hoping I can catch some of those CFL tourneys when I'm back home for winter break and the like. Who knows, maybe I'll see you there :D

 

[MrLul]

For starters, work on your DI especially those Lucas dairs were rediculous. Second of all, make a read on your opponents recover BEFORE you go out to edge guard. You had a so many situations where you just jumped out and swung which lead to you coming home empty handed. Other than that, probably don't CP Lucas to Final. I don't think that stage really works out in our favor. PK Freeze is powerful there and it's too fast to bucket, and bacon spam isn't real anymore (if it ever was). Probably work on shielding more and your out of sheild game. You should be able to punish those river dances with Up-B OoS.

Where do I DI the dairs? I'm guessing away. What's a river dance? Tried googling it and found nothing. Where should I counterpick him? I picked FD because of uthrow uair juggles, and I'm good at predicting PK Freeze.

What m3t said. Also, work on your l-canceling. You use sh fair quite a bit, and you definitely should. But you should be l-canceling them every time. And then if you flub it or hit on shield, you can instantly go to grab, jab, dsmash, dtilt, whatever.

dair as well.

I find f tilt is a beautiful ledge guard tool against a lucas/ness who is trying to sweetspot with pk thunder. I usually don't go off stage to fight them, unless they start a pk thunder and I think I can get there in time to gimp them. Use the ftilt to bait them into recovering high or tethering, and then work from there. When I jumped out and faired him I was trying to cover his tether, and then stop his Up B, but that doesn't work because he can do that so fast. I was thinking of ledge hogging the tether, and when he's forced to jump, nair him. If he up b's, get off ledge and fair/nair him.

Glad to see a gdubs main in Florida! I live in Tampa but go to school in Arkansas. I'm really hoping I can catch some of those CFL tourneys when I'm back home for winter break and the like. Who knows, maybe I'll see you there :D

Yeah, I don't have a CRT but I play on netplay a lot, I'm getting a CRT soon so I can L-Cancel better, and I was also nervous because this guy usually beats me. I usually dtilt after fair, but I need to work on grabbing. Yay another GnW main in FL! Are you going to Paragon?

 

[Black Bean]

Where do I DI the dairs? I'm guessing away. What's a river dance? Tried googling it and found nothing. Where should I counterpick him? I picked FD because of uthrow uair juggles, and I'm good at predicting PK Freeze.

Yeah, I don't have a CRT but I play on netplay a lot, I'm getting a CRT soon so I can L-Cancel better, and I was also nervous because this guy usually beats me. I usually dtilt after fair, but I need to work on grabbing. Yay another GnW main in FL! Are you going to Paragon?

What's Paragon? I have no clue.

Hit up your local goodwill and buy a CRT. I got a good one for $8. Maybe we can play on netplay some time!

I think he meant Lucas' dair by riverdance. If you get hit with it, make sure to DI to the left or the right when you get sent up so you don't get usmashed. It's hard to avoid though. Also make sure to have correct DI on his dthrow and back throws. I believe the good DI for back throw is behind Lucas. If he back throws you, good DI may save your life. As a genrral rule though, GnW will get throw-KOed by Lucas in the low 100%s.

Counterpick FoD. It's a beautiful stage for GnW. I don't really know how to explain, but it just works well for every MU. The platforms are conducive to gdubs' neutral game, and it's super easy to recover. The closeish blastlines help us too because our horizontal recovery is trash anyway. If you get a platform grab, dthrow into anything works because even if they tech they can only go so far. dthrow-dsmash is so guaranteed it isn't even funny. It should KO most of the cast in the early hundreds, especially if you get the vertical trajectory.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Where do I DI the dairs? I'm guessing away. What's a river dance? Tried googling it and found nothing. Where should I counterpick him? I picked FD because of uthrow uair juggles, and I'm good at predicting PK Freeze.

O sorry, river dance is what my local crew calls Lucas's dair (he's giving you the tap fest). It's a pretty complicated move so to understand how to DI it you have to be solid on your DI already. For starters it has a reduced SDI multiplier on the early hits. So it is hard to escape by design. Second of all, the angle (on those first two hits) is mostly horizontal which means that just DIing away will not change the angle at all. You can actually DI it up and get a little space.

Check this little gif. The white notches are the angle they send.

If you do get caught and the third hit is coming then teching the meteor on the third hit will save you in most cases.

As far as stage counterpicks go. I would say focus on getting those platforms in there and also on big blast zones. The platforms give you non-linear approaches and places to run to if he wants to shoot at you. The big blast zones are way better for G&W than Lucas because our recover covers more distance and is harder to predict than his. It's pretty easy to get edgeguards on Lucas if he's forced to Up-B. So, to those effects I would favor Skyworld, Dreamland, Metal Cavern, Battlefield or Yoshi's Story (in that order). Stay away from FD, Smashville, Pokemon Stadium, Wario Ware, and Yoshi's Island. I lean against Green Hill Zone too, but I'm undecided. The others are okay-ish.

 

[Samuch]

That's not really a good enough reason to change the colors though. I guess it's not really that big of a deal since almost every G&W I've seen uses black anyway. I'm just always opposed to things being changed from Brawl that don't need to be changed since I want PM to look and feel as much like Brawl as possible.

I did always hate the old yellow though, and I like the new cyan better.

Them changing the colors slightly so that they don't blend in o the background is not a good reason to change them? C'mon...

Also, I think you are the only one of the very few that wants PM to feel like brawl. hahahaha

 

[shapular]

Them changing the colors slightly so that they don't blend in o the background is not a good reason to change them? C'mon...

Also, I think you are the only one of the very few that wants PM to feel like brawl. hahahaha

No I'm not. Probably like half of the people who play PM are Brawl players. Most of the dedicated Melee players just stick to Melee.

 

[Shockbound]

No I'm not. Probably like half of the people who play PM are Brawl players. Most of the dedicated Melee players just stick to Melee.

That doesn't necessarily mean that they want PM to feel like Brawl.

 

[shapular]

That doesn't necessarily mean that they want PM to feel like Brawl.

Brawl is objectively better in every way aesthetically.

 

[Metmetm3t]

 

[shapular]

To be clear, I mean compared to Melee. And it's not an opinion, it's fact.

 

[Shockbound]

 

[&Y_]

Gatling grab is broken af. Seriously it's godlike. Why don't you all do it more? Just press shield everytime you hit with the first dash attack hit and you'll get a grab often. Option selects for days. I never see it from any other GnW players. Opponent sitting in shield? Gatling grab them. I love griming people with it. It's easily his best shield pressure option in most cases. You can even combo into it from the dash attack hit at certain percents and if they cc or di poorly. It's an awesome tool so more people should use it!

I tried to test it in debug mode, and I think the dash grab comes out 4 frames after shield stun ends. Didn't test the pivot grab. I'll test it again when I get back to my dorm tomorrow, but seriously it's godlike and no one does it.

 

[Metmetm3t]

It seems good, but really you are not accomplishing anything that just using JC grab wouldn't. Grab covers all the same options and has more range and less cool down than dash attack.

If you get the hit it's 10 damage, which is nice, but getting in their face with a full dash is a lot of commitment just for 10%.