Q&A Unleashing a 2-D Horror - A Game and Watch Thread

[Black Bean]

So, is bucket braking actually a thing? Do you guys use it? Do you know how to, but choose not to, or forget to? Is it useless, or very useful?

If it is useful, how do you do it? And when? (What stages, what matchups?)

Thanks :D

 

[jtm94]

the bucket only slows falling momentum much like Marth SideB and Mario's cape. You should always use it to recover from further than you usually would.

 

[Black Bean]

the bucket only slows falling momentum much like Marth SideB and Mario's cape. You should always use it to recover from further than you usually would.

Actually, if I understand correctly, the bucket cancels all momentum. Bucket braking is the act of using your down-b to cancel the momentum of hits that would potentially kill you, especially on large stages. If I recall correctly, the idea is to hit a (nair) to get out of hitstun and then hit down-b as soon as possible. There are definitely some situations in which this will keep you from hitting the blast wall, allowing you to save your stock and recover.

What I basically want to know is if anybody does this extensively, and if so, against which characters and on which stages? Also, is it worth it at all?

 

[Metmetm3t]

It's basically never worth it to bucket brake in normal situations because by the time you snap out of hitstun G&W has already lost all the momentum he would cancel with Bucket.

But when you slide off a platform you have no hitstun. So the move is technically abusable if you ASDI down and bucket right as you come off the stage. A few of us do it in certain situations, but in there aren't a whole lot of practical uses.

 

[Black Bean]

It's basically never worth it to bucket brake in normal situations because by the time you snap out of hitstun G&W has already lost all the momentum he would cancel with Bucket.

But when you slide off a platform you have no hitstun. So the move is technically abusable if you ASDI down and bucket right as you come off the stage. A few of us do it in certain situations, but in there aren't a whole lot of practical uses.

Sweet. Thanks so much man. Is ASDI the same as SDI?

[edit] Never mind. I looked it up. I need to get better at the fancy DI's.

 

[Metmetm3t]

ASDI down just means you were holding down (A stands for Auto). It's like lazy SDI.

 

[Artimus]

Sweet. Thanks so much man. Is ASDI the same as SDI?

[edit] Never mind. I looked it up. I need to get better at the fancy DI's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YckWYkkcs-0

 

[shapular]

The sliding off the stage bucket brake has saved me many stocks. I generally bucket brake whenever I'm hit near the blast zone. I disagree with m3t and I think it can save you from hitting the blast line sometimes. I also bucket stall when coming back to the stage sometimes, but if your opponent knows you're going to do it you can be punished easily.

 

[Black Bean]

The sliding off the stage bucket brake has saved me many stocks. I generally bucket brake whenever I'm hit near the blast zone. I disagree with m3t and I think it can save you from hitting the blast line sometimes. I also bucket stall when coming back to the stage sometimes, but if your opponent knows you're going to do it you can be punished easily.

I do the same while recovering and you're right that it's easily punishable. But when it comes to bucket braking because you're flying off the stage, I feel like there was some point in which I was told you have to use nair to get out of hitstun sooner so that you could bucket brake ASAP (this may be a brawl thing, not sure.).

 

[Metmetm3t]

I do the same while recovering and you're right that it's easily punishable. But when it comes to bucket braking because you're flying off the stage, I feel like there was some point in which I was told you have to use nair to get out of hitstun sooner so that you could bucket brake ASAP (this may be a brawl thing, not sure.).

Yes that's how it was in Brawl because hitstun canceling was a thing in Brawl. In PM you can't cancel your hitstun.

 

[Black Bean]

Yes that's how it was in Brawl because hitstun canceling was a thing in Brawl. In PM you can't cancel your hitstun.

Thanks for the clarification!

I just started implementing CC bucket braking into my game. The salt is real.

 

[Phan7om]

How can chef be best used in the ditto?

And also, is land cancelling the pan hitbox on shield in anyway good?

 

[Hamman88]

As far as the ditto goes, from my experience proper use of bacon often determines the outcome, who can zone better etc, provided you are not spamming it waiting to be punished.
Personally whenever the other G&W escapes a combo or shield pressure with upb, I like to spam bacon to prevent them from coming down with a dair or just rack on some nice percent, if you feel they're at kill percent when theyre above you, you can throw out some bacon, and try to follow up with nair or fair.
If you're coming down from above something that not alot of G&W's do, but really should do regardless of match-up, is b-reverse and/or wavebunce bacon when you're right above the opponent, it catches alot of people off guard and is a much safer option then coming down with dar(which gets beat out by so many moves).

and dont edgeguard g&w with bacon, like, ever. because reasons.

 

[Yung Mei]

If you're coming down from above something that not alot of G&W's do, but really should do regardless of match-up, is b-reverse and/or wavebunce bacon when you're right above the opponent, it catches alot of people off guard and is a much safer option then coming down with dar(which gets beat out by so many moves).

ive been sayin this **** for the longest time and everyone disregarded it lool

 

[Metmetm3t]

The only problem with using the pan hit is that G&W can't fast fall while using Chef so the land cancel is mostly negated by the fall distance, but even still, wavebouncing is such a powerful tool that it works.

 

[jtm94]

I wish the pan hit was super good on shield. That would be awesome. I do get pan combo into pan from time to time, it sends pretty dang low.

Wavebounce sounds pretty good against people where being above is REALLY bad. Like Peach, Sonic, Marth imo. I want to try to use that a lot, but I never felt confident enough in wavebounce timings to use them.

 

[GuccitheGreat]

So im having trouble learning how to juggle with Uairs is theres any videos or combos that usually go well with each other that yall can lay on me?

 

[The 9!]

So im having trouble learning how to juggle with Uairs is theres any videos or combos that usually go well with each other that yall can lay on me?

Uair can combo into any aerial. If you're looking for a kill then definitely use nair or fair after it, and if you're feeling lucky use judgement out of it. If you want to rack up damage then I suggest SHFFLing uairs into a uair + dair (short hop uair, double jump dair) and try to meteor spike them back to the stage for a tech chase (or set up for an up smash if you get the spike bounce from the key). You could also do two uairs into an Up-B + chute for a kill at higher percents. There are so many possibilities, but your options will be limited based on factors like character weight and DI. Just keep practicing uair combos on different characters and be creative!

 

[Dakpo]

Here are some fun highlights of my smash career so far
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.2:0.0.0.0.0.0.$range4:0" style="color: rgb(59, 89, 152); cursor: pointer; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11.8181819915771px; line-height: 13.9636354446411px; white-space: pre-wrap; background-color: rgb(219, 237, 254);">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYHxFkBL40s#t=23
..2:0.0.0.0.0.0.$range5:0" style="color: rgb(59, 89, 152); cursor: pointer; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11.8181819915771px; line-height: 13.9636354446411px; white-space: pre-wrap; background-color: rgb(219, 237, 254);">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYHxFkBL40s#t=23

 

[Black Bean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YckWYkkcs-0

What are some other instances where CC bucket brake works besides kirby's fsmash? I haven't really found any, but I haven't really tried.

 

[Dakpo]

What are some other instances where CC bucket brake works besides kirby's fsmash? I haven't really found any, but I haven't really tried.

Falcon Knee

 

[Black Bean]

Falcon Knee

damn. good to know.

 

[Yung Mei]

can GNW act out of bucket fast enough to not get kneed in the face again, im not sure

 

[Black Bean]

can GNW act out of bucket fast enough to not get kneed in the face again, im not sure

probably.

but seriously. would you rather die or risk the chance of getting kneed again?

 

[Yung Mei]

honestly, id rather not bucket, (depending on percent anyways), and recover low so i wouldnt get kneed in the head

 

[Black Bean]

with GnW being tied for 2nd lightest character in the game, knee smash can often KO as soon as 70% depending on some things. if you get kneed at 110% on the edge of the stage, it's over. you're going to fly into the blast line before you're even out of hitstun. there is no recovering low. your options are to bucket brake or die.

game and watch is blessed with a fair that easily outranges knee smash. you have several options from the bucket.

additionally, I've found it beneficial to not recover low against a falcon who knows what they're doing. all they have to do is throw out another SHFLLD knee or dair. then it's over. recover high, preferably with your midair jump remaining, and then you can bait them into a move.

 

[Rᴏb]

2 days and everyone will be able to experience the G&W buffs, can't wait

 

[shapular]

2 days and everyone will be able to experience the G&W buffs, can't wait

I'm not holding my breath. A PMDT guy I know told me they were thinking about taking out the jump after up B unless you do it from the ground. I don't get why they have to do that since it was already nerfed twice. I'm not expecting any real buffs, maybe some minor ones. If G&W ends up nerfed I'm probably going to give up and switch to Pikachu, or maybe Zelda depending on how she turns out.

 

[Rᴏb]

If G&W ends up nerfed I'm probably going to give up and switch to Pikachu, or maybe Zelda depending on how she turns out.

I can't specify, but trust me you'll be satisfied

 

[shapular]

I can't specify, but trust me you'll be satisfied

You know things? Do we get new colors? Restoration of dtilt's range? Return of fishbowl? Useful throws? More weight buffs? Magic armor that nullifies all attacks from swords?

...are we going to be able to float like Mewtwo and Ganon?

 

[Hamman88]

Excited enough as it is now that I finally read the most recent 3.5 Dev Post,
g&w is getting DOUBLE the DACUS Window!

Lucas Gannon and snake can all go suck it

 

[jtm94]

I don't know how to feel about the 2 frames. Depending where they place the extra frame it may potentially make it go further or shorter depending on the frame you get. I think I would rather have consistency of a similar distance over both frames. Poor Link had like 4 frames because his jumpsquat is so long and now he has 2.

Honestly if GnW receives buffs I will be disappointed. Depending on how dumb they are I may focus my time elsewhere. I just don't want something stupid(unless they give super food because I loved how dumb that was). As for removing the double jump after UpB I can kind of understand that. At the same time if you keep track of your opponent's double jump it isn't as much of a mix up, but he can already come from kind of deep via bucket. He did lose jump height when they gave him more weight, but I think his UpB is still incredible, before it was just ridiculous.

I would be happy if dtilt was adapted to either fit the hitbox it has or have the hitbox fit on it.

 

[Metmetm3t]

I've playtested 3.5 G&W for probably 40+ hours. He'll still feel like G&W, he'll just be more solid with these tools.

 

[shapular]

I've playtested 3.5 G&W for probably 40+ hours. He'll still feel like G&W, he'll just be more solid with these tools.

New colors or nah? Surely a yes or no answer to this question would be permissible.

 

[Metmetm3t]

If I were able to spoil things I already would have.

 

[Rᴏb]

New colors or nah? Surely a yes or no answer to this question would be permissible.

 

[jtm94]

I'll just keep using my neon GnW retexture. Luckily GnW is so simple no one cares if I recolor him, especially when it makes him easier to see.

 

[Yung Mei]

i call pink youre all not kawaii enough for it

 

[jtm94]

The pink isn't kawaii enough for me anyways.
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ PINK GIVEN ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

 

[shapular]

PINK HYPE

Also Graymanwatch 2.0. I like the purple too.