Q&A Unleashing a 2-D Horror - A Game and Watch Thread

[Phan7om]

So... uh... yeah... That ftilt tho!

 

[shapular]

I love me some ftilt. Great coverage move on the ledge, great anti-approach tool, great move in general for a lot of tough matchups.

 

[dRevan64]

The RNG will stay. There's nothing anyone can say to change it, there's no point in arguing about it, and you should move on to a more conductive topic.

They said the same thing about apartheid, the tea tax and bloodletting. There is a better way of doing things, and I for one have a vested interest in seeing this game improve.
The word you were looking for is productive.

 

[GeZ]

Comparing RNG to blood letting.
This freaking guy.

 

[Yung Mei]

They said the same thing about apartheid, the tea tax and bloodletting. There is a better way of doing things, and I for one have a vested interest in seeing this game improve.
The word you were looking for is productive.

oh my ****ing god did you seriously just compare the apartheid to GNW's hammer

 

[shapular]

They said the same thing about apartheid, the tea tax and bloodletting. There is a better way of doing things, and I for one have a vested interest in seeing this game improve.
The word you were looking for is productive.

Did you just question the tea tax? King George will hear about this!

 

[dRevan64]

oh my ****ing god did you seriously just compare the apartheid to GNW's hammer

What, you think G&W should have to rely on RNG just because he's black?

 

[Phan7om]

All were saying is that the RnG wont change because 1. itd be pretty OP with RNG gone (I like your idea, but the idea of having 6,7, and 8 come up consecutively is a little too good.) And 2. its iconic to his character design.

Its like if someone was on stream with Peach and they continued to pull stitch faces to the point where it made a difference in where they placed in tourney and then complained that the RNG was too good because of its random factor and should be altered so that Peach could pull a certain turnip after every one she pulled. All do respect, NOT gonna happen.

 

[Metmetm3t]

I think we have all made our points here. It's time to move on. You guysvare argueing in circles. If there was any impact to be made it has been.

 

[Poodle]

I've been using Camo Watch for a while now. It's very stage dependent.

Here's a quick guide:

• Yoshi's (Melee) - Cyan - The colors here are extremely bright.

• Battlefield - Blue - The stage is mostly grey and brown so not much to blend in against, but the skybox is deep blue and when it becomes night everything becomes very blue.

• Pokemon Stadium 2 - Blue - Everything about this stage is blue

• Final Destination - Black - The stage never gets as dark as it did in melee, but black is still the best option.

• Smashville - Green/Yellow/Blue - Pay attention to what time of day it is when you start your match because Green or Yellow are great for day but Blue is the only acceptable night.

• Dreamland - Green/Cyan/Yellow - Green is probably the best here because the tree is so overgrown, but Cyan blends into the skybox and Yellow works against the tree itself.

• Fountain of Dreams - Blue/Cyan/Black - Black works great off stage, Cyan works better on stage Blue is an effective compromise

• Yoshi's (Brawl) - Yellow - The grass color here is always slightly yellow, so spring through fall yellow works great. Winter sucks no matter what color you choose

• Lylat Cruise - Black - Obviously

• Pokemon Stadium 1 - Black - You might think green or even colors to match the different transitions, but the background is consistently black and the whole stage is generally dark.

• WarioWare- Blue/Green - There isn't a great answer for this stage, but the background isn't dark enough for black so go with the darkish colors.

• Green Hill Zone - Green/Yellow/Cyan - Green and Yellow are obvious, but the colors here are also really bright so Cyan isn't a bad choice.

• Skyloft - Cyan - You spend the majority of this stage looking at skyboxes so be one with the sky.

• Skyworld - Yellow - Yellow yellow yellow yellow

• Metal Cavern - Blue - Just not dark enough for black

• Halberd - Red - Finally a red stage. And boy is it ever red. This is by far the best camo-watch stage.

• Castle Siege - Red - Transformation 2 is all lava and transformation 1 has red roofs

• Norfair - Red - Laaaaaava

• Dracula's Castle - Red - And that concludes the red block

• Rumble Falls - Yellow - Don't let the trees fool you. They are yellow.

• Distant Planet - Yellow - It rains every so often, but not enough to warrant a color switch.

Cheers for this! I like feelin flat and stealthy.


New question: Should I be using UTilt much? As of now, I only use it as a low% combo starter. It seems like it gets out-prioritized by a lot of character's airs so I don't use it to defend.

 

[shapular]

I like using utilt to stop characters with low aerial approaches, like Sonic, Captain Falcon, or Diddy's side B. It works well when you mix it up with ftilt. It can also be used to juggle characters who have trouble landing, but it probably shouldn't work on good players. Another use is the uthrow to utilt to uthrow combo at 0% on fastfallers.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Yea shapular put it right in there. Utilt also can combo out of bair sometimes as a kind of linker to doing more stuff.

 

[Poodle]

Thanks fellas. I got some playing in last night and Utilt out of bair worked nicely. I also found Utilt to be a good link out of the landing hits of Dair and Upair (Lower %) Dtilt and Ftilt have become such security blankets for me I neglect waving that flag every once in awhile.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Just picked up g&w as a secondary, a few days ago. Just wanted to check on a few things. Does the up throw up tilt up throw work on only fast fallers, or some heavies as well? And The other question was is up throw to parachute pretty much guaranteed at later percent or do I have to make it a d.I trap between left and right throw? Love g&w combo potential, but they made him a little too light in my opinion. I still can't figure out a good approach on people under platforms, and g&w dies early even with good d.I.

 

[JesusTheSecondComing]

Just picked up g&w as a secondary, a few days ago. Just wanted to check on a few things. Does the up throw up tilt up throw work on only fast fallers, or some heavies as well? And The other question was is up throw to parachute pretty much guaranteed at later percent or do I have to make it a d.I trap between left and right throw? Love g&w combo potential, but they made him a little too light in my opinion. I still can't figure out a good approach on people under platforms, and g&w dies early even with good d.I.

Up throw combos on all charcters if they are at low enough percents. It just works longer for fast fallers. It won't work against normal weight charcters after like 50-60% and it still works on fast fallers up to like 80%. If they DI properly or are at higher percents you can still chase them with your up-B get Fair in (side B and Nair are two slow if you chase). I don't know about parachute ever being guaranteed at certain percents. GAW is pretty light and dies quickly but he has bucket braking which is really useful it takes a lot of practice/fast reaction. After you get hit do an aerial (U-air is fastest) and then Down - B stops all movement. Hope that helps!

 

[shapular]

After you get hit do an aerial (U-air is fastest) and then Down - B stops all movement. Hope that helps!

Hitstun can't be cancelled in PM so the aerial to bucket thing doesn't work anymore. You have to wait till hitstun wears off and then bucket. It's still good at saving you if you can pull it off near the blastzone, but not nearly Brawl level.

 

[shapular]

Speaking of bucket braking, how viable would it be to crouch cancel or DI down certain strong attacks so that you slide on the ground and can bucket right when you go off the ledge? I've done it a few times to save my life but I wasn't DI-ing for it on purpose.

Also, how viable would it be to bring an actual bell to tournaments and ring them in your opponent's face whenever you get a kill? I feel like this is the 20XX G&W metagame, along with taunt cancelling literally every time you run off a platform (I've actually thought about practicing this).

 

[Dakpo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOn_4tSMJR8
This first match has just broke me...... I got horrendously 3stocked. He isnt that much of a better player than me if at all. I shouldn't have to work 6X harder that someone on equal skill as me.

I'm sorry, but getting grabbed at below 60% and having a 50% chance of dying because of a DI choice is BAAAAAAAAAAAD design... seriously wtf
Got hit by a multi hit safe projectile (razor leaf) at 63%- get auto comboed into death......
I did 4X better with a terrible secondary falco.....

Its time to face the facts. GnW is a good character, but other characters are amazing. I am giving up GnW for a while. He is not bad, just not great with characters with terrible design like Ivy around.

cya on the falco boards

 

[Juushichi]

See you, space cowboy.

You'll be back, just like I am/was. Good luck with Falco!

 

[wiiztec]

We must buff

 

[shapular]

I know what you mean, man. Vine Whip is completely ridiculous and has the stupidest hitbox. DI in front of him, he stands and hits you with a Vine Whip. DI above him, he stands and hits you with a Vine Whip anyway just because it has a hitbox the size of Bowser. PM still has too much ridiculous crap like that, which is why I can't consider it better than Brawl yet.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's a 50/50 where you should hold straight Left or Right, as an aside. Also, Razor Leaf is not a safe projectile.

That's rough, regardless.

 

[Italia06823834]

Against G&W? Razor Leaf seems pretty safe.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can clank it out pretty easily, and at most distances you can react with shorthop double Neutral-B before dealing with it to limit Ivysaur's options. Razor Leaf is not so hot.

 

[Deleted member]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOn_4tSMJR8
This first match has just broke me...... I got horrendously 3stocked. He isnt that much of a better player than me if at all. I shouldn't have to work 6X harder that someone on equal skill as me.

I'm sorry, but getting grabbed at below 60% and having a 50% chance of dying because of a DI choice is BAAAAAAAAAAAD design... seriously wtf
Got hit by a multi hit safe projectile (razor leaf) at 63%- get auto comboed into death......
I did 4X better with a terrible secondary falco.....

Its time to face the facts. GnW is a good character, but other characters are amazing. I am giving up GnW for a while. He is not bad, just not great with characters with terrible design like Ivy around.

cya on the falco boards

So are you dropping gnw ENTIRELY or just for some certain MUs?

 

[Dakpo]

So are you dropping gnw ENTIRELY or just for some certain MUs?

just for ivy atm

 

[Dakpo]

You can clank it out pretty easily, and at most distances you can react with shorthop double Neutral-B before dealing with it to limit Ivysaur's options. Razor Leaf is not so hot.

Thanks for your input, thats a really smart idea. Could you go into more detail about his grab combos?

 

[Italia06823834]

Could you go into more detail about his grab combos?

I too would like some more in depth information.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

U-Throw sends up at an angle of 80 while D-Throw sends up at an angle of 100. As such, holding Up-Left or Up-Right with not influence your direction enough to force Ivysaur to have to guess; she can just react to you. Holding straight Away (or, ideally, 10 degrees lower than straight) does that against U-Throw, and straight Forward (or, ideally, 10 degrees lower than straight) does that against D-Throw.

Neither F-Throw nor B-Throw have very significant knockback so you shouldn't worry about KO potential until very high percents (and at least you can react to B-Throw), and at that point you should be holding Up, since after a certain percent (no, I don't know it) you go too high to get Up-B combo'd.

tl;dr--Hold Away to beat U-Throw and hold toward the opponent to beat D-Throw (it's a 50/50). At high percents, just hold Up.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

So out of all the versions of Project M, which version of G&W is considered the best? (maybe 2.5b? I honestly know know nothing about the dude)

 

[Deleted member]

2.6 gnw had super bacon and 0 landing lag from it, along with the peach dsmash into his fsmash and I think maybe a few other things

3.0 removed those but gave him slightly more weight and a better dash dance (aka made him more like a real character)

 

[EmLeingod]

So what's the deal with G&W's dair? How do I reliably meteor with it? Is it a timing thing, a spacing thing, or something else?

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

2.6 gnw had super bacon and 0 landing lag from it, along with the peach dsmash into his fsmash and I think maybe a few other things

3.0 removed those but gave him slightly more weight and a better dash dance (aka made him more like a real character)

2.6 does seem better, but 3.0 is good as well.............
WHICH ONE!!!!!

 

[Maestro_]

So what's the deal with G&W's dair? How do I reliably meteor with it? Is it a timing thing, a spacing thing, or something else?

The opening frames of it are the meteor.

 

[Deleted member]

2.6 was "better" but 3.0 is better design.

 

[Dakpo]

yupppppppp

 

[jtm94]

I've been aware for a while that to play GnW you have to work multitudes harder than your opponent. I practiced hard with him, but in tournament I floundered with him, yet I could win with Diddy by just throwing stuff. In due time things will be more balanced out, but I do find GnW to be almost an outlier at the bottom.

Having a few good moves doesn't make him good, it makes him gimmicky. It's like he punishes with combos when I could just play another character that can punish or combo better. People still choose to play GnW of course, but not because he is good, just fun. He has few mixups and lets be real all his throws are the same with a different angle. On the faster fallers he gets guaranteed hits on them out of back, up, and forward throw all the same, in the end he has 2 throws 1 which can be teched easily, and even if you read the tech you get a fair follow-up at best. The other throw just tosses you high enough into the air to react to whatever he does below you. His roll is bad, his tech-roll is bad, he gets comboed, but he does have good recovery, some strong moves, and UpB pillaring esque comboes that can be DI'd out of.

I wish Up air had just a tad more KB growth. So many times I chase into the upper screen and land Uair and KNOW they are KOd, but they didn't get pushed over.

 

[dettadeus]

1 which can be teched easily, and even if you read the tech you get a fair follow-up at best.

Yo bro have you ever heard of reading a tech roll with DACUS? Easily the scariest single-hit tech punish in the game.

G&W is a fun character who hits hard and combos hard, has a stupid recovery, and easily one of the highest risk/reward moves in the game in Judgement Hammer. Also he does well against characters that space with energy projectiles like Mario and Falco.

 

[Hamman88]

Yo bro have you ever heard of reading a tech roll with DACUS? Easily the scariest single-hit tech punish in the game.

I'm always sincerely impressed with any player who can consistently pull off probably the g&W DACUS, being the most frame precise in the game, I've spent quite a few weeks practicing the technique, and still cant get it more than 4% of the time, let alone in a match exactly when I want to.

That being said with regards to his d-throw, I find that it is an awesome stock-finisher/game-ender if they miss or forget to tech, just jab reset + u smash = stock gone. I'll only use the d-throw once or twice a game and make sure to get plenty of u-throws in beforehand just to try and trick my opponent into thinking i wont use d-throw or just forgetting to tech entirely, considering you only really need it to work once to make it count

 

[dettadeus]

I'm always sincerely impressed with any player who can consistently pull off probably the g&W DACUS, being the most frame precise in the game, I've spent quite a few weeks practicing the technique, and still cant get it more than 4% of the time, let alone in a match exactly when I want to.

dacus isn't even as hard as like, waveshining or doing shine OoS or multishine. dacus is tight timing but not really fast fingers on the level of most spacey tech. not to mention that gatling expands the window massively if you hit with dash attack anyway