Q&A Unleashing a 2-D Horror - A Game and Watch Thread

[Nguz95]

Lolwut? I thought nobody plays this character?

 

[Metmetm3t]

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever melling. It's not like the skype group is some kind of G&W back room.

 

[jtm94]

Nobody plays this character, he doesn't even exist.

 

[JesusTheSecondComing]

Who can GAW grab chain?

 

[Deleted member]

I think Uthrow chaingrabs fast fallers. Go to FD, spam bacon, get a grab, CG etc

 

[mule]

Anyone have experience using brawlbox to look at G&W? I'm trying to get frame data and put it into gif form for a thread like some of the other character specific forums have. Unfortunately, his model ends up wigging out during most of the animations. Am I using the program incorrectly or is this a known problem?

On a side note, here's the hurtbox for his nair.

I wondered how I always seemed to hit with it.

 

[jtm94]

His hitboxes don't like to work with Brawlbox, you have to do some extra stuff to make them work, but I don't know what exactly, just that he doesn't like to show us his hitboxes.

 

[Yung Mei]

gaw is for dorks!

 

[Metmetm3t]

I have tried to work with G&W multiple times. As far as I know it is impossible. The edits he has in Project M all come from PSA or the gecko codes.

 

[Hamman88]

Do you guys tend to use tap jump or no? I find that when I do leave it on, whenever I'm trying to recover high with a up b+ double jump, I end up using my second jump when rotating the control stick from wherever im DI'ing from, to the up+b position, and am left without a jump. However when I play without tap jump, I am unable to up b oos, which is a huge loss I feel for G&W. How do you guys get around accidentally using the second jump during recovery?

 

[Maestro_]

Do you guys tend to use tap jump or no? I find that when I do leave it on, whenever I'm trying to recover high with a up b+ double jump, I end up using my second jump when rotating the control stick from wherever im DI'ing from, to the up+b position, and am left without a jump. However when I play without tap jump, I am unable to up b oos, which is a huge loss I feel for G&W. How do you guys get around accidentally using the second jump during recovery?

I HAVE to have it off for gnw because I'll waste double jump when I up b. For up b-ing OOS, flick the cstick up which buffers a jump and then up b. It's the most efficient way to up b OOS.

 

[jtm94]

I play with tap jump on for all characters, and I play GnW a lot.

 

[FreeGamer]

I have tap jump off because my trigger finger makes it difficult for me to use U-Tilts/U-Smashes/U-Airs without accidentally jumping, so I Up-B out of shield by quickly sliding my thumb over Y then B while holding up and shield.

 

[Nintendude]

I use default controls, meaning tap jump on, and I never have any problems with managing GW"s mid-air jump and up-B.

 

[NickLeo]

Not sure if this is the best thread to post in, but does anyone know how to use the bucket safely? More specifically, vs. Mario I always get punished trying to bucket his fireballs

 

[Maestro_]

More specifically, vs. Mario I always get punished trying to bucket his fireballs

You could always release them in his face. (at least until they adapt to that and think to cape it)

 

[Metmetm3t]

Not sure if this is the best thread to post in, but does anyone know how to use the bucket safely? More specifically, vs. Mario I always get punished trying to bucket his fireballs

Well of course, if he comes in too directly you can just release the bucket right then and there. But Mario's fireballs are meant to corral his opponent, so sometimes taking the bucket is going to be a bad idea. In the end though, it only takes two fireballs to turn Oil Panic into a kill move so if you take a hit that might be an okay trade off.

You could always release them in his face. (at least until they adapt to that and think to cape it)

Oil Panic is not "cape-able" of being caped.

 

[Maestro_]

lol I've always planned on someone eventually caping it back at me. One less worry.

 

[NickLeo]

Well of course, if he comes in too directly you can just release the bucket right then and there. But Mario's fireballs are meant to corral his opponent, so sometimes taking the bucket is going to be a bad idea. In the end though, it only takes two fireballs to turn Oil Panic into a kill move so if you take a hit that might be an okay trade off.

I tend to release the bucket immediately on other characters, but I feel that mario's fireballs are too valuable and I'd prefer to get at least two before using it.
& I agree that it probably is a favorable trade at low to mid percents, especially if It pays off with a full bucket. But that kinda brings up a new point, how can I land a full bucket on mario at very low percents? I played a mario in tourney on saturday and kept wasting my chances at a clean OHKO

 

[Metmetm3t]

Just combo into it. Up-Throw, Up-B, Back-Air, ect. All of those moves should easily combo into Oil Panic. Just make sure not to hesitate and give him a chance.

 

[Nintendude]

Bucketing Mario's fireballs has worked for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTnIR5hJitA&t=7m19s

 

[shapular]

What's the best option to try to push your opponent off the stage if you get a j8 near the ledge? I've always defaulted to ftilt, but could the best option be fsmash or sourspotted dtilt/dsmash or something else? Also, is it possible/feasible to punish your opponent out of the ice breaking with sweetspot dsmash or nair or something?

One more thing, is it always the best idea to go for an odd Judgment hammer? I was thinking about this yesterday and it seems like going for an even might be best if you can get the 2 in one of your last two hammers. That leaves you with 6 and 8, two pretty decent kill options, and a 4, which I've killed with before at higher percents offstage. It might not be the best idea because G&W has better options near the ledge and offstage, but it's worth thinking about.

 

[NickLeo]

What's the best option to try to push your opponent off the stage if you get a j8 near the ledge? I've always defaulted to ftilt, but could the best option be fsmash or sourspotted dtilt/dsmash or something else? Also, is it possible/feasible to punish your opponent out of the ice breaking with sweetspot dsmash or nair or something?

One more thing, is it always the best idea to go for an odd Judgment hammer? I was thinking about this yesterday and it seems like going for an even might be best if you can get the 2 in one of your last two hammers. That leaves you with 6 and 8, two pretty decent kill options, and a 4, which I've killed with before at higher percents offstage. It might not be the best idea because G&W has better options near the ledge and offstage, but it's worth thinking about.

Good question, I'll try to figure this out eventually but it can't be fsmash because that immediately frees them from the ice
I can't say for sure, but I think it's between ftilt, fair, or nair
Actually landing an 8 near the edge is super situational so I'd just focus more on working out a punish
maybe some well timed bacon into usmash? (depending on %)

 

[Hamman88]

I find myself getting j8's near the edge more and more, and personaly I find f-tilt and fair work best to quickly knock them off, followed by offstage dair in-case they mash out in time, however the problem with trying to hit your opponent out of the ice breaking is they can instantly throw out a move as soon as they break free and possible cancel your nair or dodge the d-tilt, so use at your own discretion, whenever I jet a j8 i usually throw out a up smash or two just to rack on a nice amount of damage, ive always felt there were far safer alternatives than trying to get a punish out of ice break - remember kiddies, opportunity cost

 

[JesusTheSecondComing]

Do you guys actually use side-B? I've heard mixed responses but personally I dont think the start up lag is worth and a SHFFL Fair is much safer.

 

[Maestro_]

Do you guys actually use side-B? I've heard mixed responses but personally I dont think the start up lag is worth and a SHFFL Fair is much safer.

Yes. It, the same as every other gnw move, has true combos into it.

 

[Metmetm3t]

What's the best option to try to push your opponent off the stage if you get a j8 near the ledge? I've always defaulted to ftilt, but could the best option be fsmash or sourspotted dtilt/dsmash or something else?

I'd have to analyze the frame data, but it has got to be between F-Tilt, Nair, or Fair. You can't use Down Smash because the ice block will push you out of range to hit the horizontal hitbox. My guess would be to use Nair and then try and sneak in a Fair if they are still frozen. This way you can cover break out options while still trying to push them off the edge.

Also, is it possible/feasible to punish your opponent out of the ice breaking with sweetspot dsmash or nair or something?

Nair yes, Dsmash no.

One more thing, is it always the best idea to go for an odd Judgment hammer? I was thinking about this yesterday and it seems like going for an even might be best if you can get the 2 in one of your last two hammers. That leaves you with 6 and 8, two pretty decent kill options, and a 4, which I've killed with before at higher percents offstage. It might not be the best idea because G&W has better options near the ledge and offstage, but it's worth thinking about.

In my experience, there isn't really time to build a complicated setup mid-match. If you are paying attention you can sometimes, serendipitously get something interesting, but other than that spamming for a one-in-four or one-in-three 9 is probably the best strategy.

Also it's important to remember that we have yet to see anyone implement Judgement in any significant way at a high level. I personally think the move is unfun and uncompetitive, so I keep it out of my game completely. But I think Dakpo tries to use it in the manner I described and I respect that. Other than that most players I see using hammer are just putting up prayers.

 

[shapular]

Do you guys actually use side-B? I've heard mixed responses but personally I dont think the start up lag is worth and a SHFFL Fair is much safer.

Definitely not as an empty move like you would use a SHFFL fair. I used to not use it at all but when I found out how much they buffed the non-9s I thought I'd try to use it a bit more and I've been working on adding it to my game the past few weeks. I think it's worth using at low-mid percents as a combo finisher occasionally instead of a fair or whatever just for the possibility of getting something good, especially since most of the hammers now are beneficial.

In my experience, there isn't really time to build a complicated setup mid-match. If you are paying attention you can sometimes, serendipitously get something interesting, but other than that spamming for a one-in-four or one-in-three 9 is probably the best strategy.

Yeah, this would really just be a chancy thing during your normal hammer resets between stocks. If you happened to roll a 2 with two dots or get two dots on the hammer right after the 2, do you think it would be worth keeping, or should you keep trying for one dot (assuming you have time, of course)?

 

[Metmetm3t]

Yeah, this would really just be a chancy thing during your normal hammer resets between stocks. If you happened to roll a 2 with two dots or get two dots on the hammer right after the 2, do you think it would be worth keeping, or should you keep trying for one dot (assuming you have time, of course)?

I would say yes. Every bone in my body looks at the gambler's fallacy in disgust. Throwing away an advantage for the long shot at greater gold doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, but as I said, that's only if it falls into my lap.

I guess I would probably break every setup into some kind of tier list where 1 > 3 one dot (only 5, 7, 9 are possible) is the Royal Flush and even > even one dot (all odd are possible) is trash. In this list 2 > odd two dot (4, 6, 8) is the pair of eights. It's just barely okay, so you might as well play it out.

 

[shapular]

One more question for now. Is G&W's ledgeroll good for anything? I was facing an Ike on wifi a week or two ago. I was hanging on the ledge and I thought ledgerolling behind him was the only way I wasn't going to get fsmashed but I got hit anyway in what looked like the middle of the roll. Are there any actual invincibility frames on it?

Edit: Ha, I lied, one more thing. I'm still not used to tether grabs in PM (personally I think they should take Smash 4's lead and remove them all). What does G&W have to punish them? Do you punish right after they tether and are still hanging or when they jump?

 

[Dakpo]

Grab the ledge, then they have to do their short hop back onto the stage. You can fair them when they jump before they can do anything. You can also Hammer Ivysaur lol #denti <3

 

[NickLeo]

Or if they used their 2nd jump and 100% have to tether, you could drop in and Nair between the character and the ledge. That kills at almost any %

 

[Rᴏb]

I have tried to work with G&W multiple times. As far as I know it is impossible. The edits he has in Project M all come from PSA or the gecko codes.

So can I assume that we are never going to get a complete hitbox thread for this character until the final version of PM is out and one of the PMBR is kind enough to make it for us? Man, that kind of info would definitely be interesting.

 

[Dakpo]

Or if they used their 2nd jump and 100% have to tether, you could drop in and Nair between the character and the ledge. That kills at almost any %

I have had many problems with this since ivy can mix up his recovery time so much by regrabbing the edge.

 

[NickLeo]

I have had many problems with this since ivy can mix up his recovery time so much by regrabbing the edge.

True, I forgot about the Denti shenanigans lol

 

[jtm94]

I go deep vs Ivy with fair or bair.

 

[shapular]

I think in Brawl you could stand on the edge or sort of jump in front of it to intercept Olimar's and Ivysaur's tethers. Does that still work?

 

[Dakpo]

kinda , its pretty inconsistent

 

[JesusTheSecondComing]

Based off of G&W's flaws/ poor MU who would be a good secondary to complement him?

 

[Deleted member]

GnW loses to characters with large disjoints and projectiles from what I noticed, I think dakpo picked up DDD for marth/roy/etc but I think you should trust someone who is a legit gnw main for advice