Q&A Unleashing a 2-D Horror - A Game and Watch Thread

[Nintendude]

In melee GnW can bucket bacon, although its stupid hard. Is that even possible in pm?

@ Nintendude Good **** dude. What do you think happened differently after you reset the bracket? was it something you weren't doing anymore or did chillin just adapt really hard? I noticed he was controlling and punishing your options coming down a lot better in the last 4 games. He also started playing more patiently and didn't SD so much. You're punishes and edge guards were still on point, You just didn't get to be in that situation as much I think.

Chillin started catching on to some of my patterns and I'd say I basically lost due to inexperience with the character. Like, I basically theorycrafted a gameplan vs. the opponents I knew I was going to be playing against (was really only concerned with Cyrain/Chillin/Milkman though) and put it into action. However, once they figured out my tricks, I didn't really have any alternate ideas to fall back on. I guess you could say my play this weekend was very "2-dimensional" and limited. As I play the character more I'll develop a deeper bag of tricks.

Also, I learned that sausage spam doesn't really work against spacies and/or characters with strong ground games (like Luigi). I still think it works great against any character that is big (like DK) or relies a lot on the air to approach. It's also really good for dealing with platform campers - probably better than any other tools in Smash I can think of at the moment.

 

[Italia06823834]

Chillin started catching on to some of my patterns and I'd say I basically lost due to inexperience with the character.

I gave a brief breakdown in the video thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/coun...gement-highlights.332349/page-4#post-16618364

Looked to me like Chillin definitely figured out your patterns. He baited out a ton of floaty Dairs and punished you pretty hard most of the time for them. He didn't SD as much which obviously helped him. But I won't retype it all since you can just click the link =P

 

[Nintendude]

Yeah I saw that. A lot of the negatives pointed out were general instances of being outplayed, or flubs (like the missed sweetspots you mentioned) due to lack of practice. Chillin is a very intelligent player and has a lot more experience with Wolf than I do with G&W.

 

[Italia06823834]

Ya. Sorry if it came across as all negative. I didn't point out too many of the obvious positive things since everyone should recognize them. I'd say it was an incredibly good tournament performance overall considering you basically just started playing G&W. Makes me want to practice more, the next tournament I'll probably be at won't be until SKTAR. I was considering going to Fight Pitt IV this upcoming weekend, but decided against it.

 

[jtm94]

I am going to Fight Pitt 4 and I am HOPING to get to face your GnW in PM Mike!!!!

If it's anything like last Fight Pitt PM setups are going to be very limited and pushed off to the side or used for Melee so friendlies probably won't be possible sadly. Hope to see you in bracket q:

 

[Juushichi]

Unfortunately, I'll be in Dayton, Ohio instead of Pittsburgh this coming weekend even though I wanted to go. Good luck everyone!

 

[Bambi_]

I am going to Fight Pitt 4 and I am HOPING to get to face your GnW in PM Mike!!!!

If it's anything like last Fight Pitt PM setups are going to be very limited and pushed off to the side or used for Melee so friendlies probably won't be possible sadly. Hope to see you in bracket q:

I'll be there because I live there. And we have Green Ranger, so that's 4 G&W mains already. TEAM G&W LET'S GO. Also, I'm bringing a PM Wii and my Wii literally can't launch Melee so we have that.

 

[jtm94]

Yeah I know about Green Ranger, he probably won't play PM though, sadly.

I'm going to potentially bring 2 wii setups.

My buddy and I are also going to bring some stuff to fix controllers and put LEDs in them, so we can do some of that on the side.

 

[Nintendude]

I'm going to FP but honestly I'm not going to be that invested in PM. I mainly just entered to see how far I can get but any time I get for friendlies will probably be for Melee. I guess I'll take MMs though!

 

[Metmetm3t]

Just to let yall know down smash is best smash.
Reasons:
1) It's the fastest smash. (boom! it's over. Do another one)
2) Hitboxes over here, hitboxes over there. (oh, you wanted to tech?)
3) Hitboxes in the air. (theres hitboxes just floating there above the hammers. He needs that.)
4) Hitboxes on G&W's head. (why not?)

You get all this and the same knockback as fsmash, but with better angles.

 

[jtm94]

I'll be down to MM you. I'm gonna be fairly invested in PM. Also going to try and bring our TV, and we'll need you to sign it q:
It's like our memento, we've taken it everywhere.

My GnW was REALLY on point today, I'm finding that nair is amazing and covers such a large area for such a long time. It never seemed it and I just used it for hard reads, but it can just be thrown out below people or under plats.

 

[Juushichi]

Yes. Nair is really good. Use it more.

m3t, I'm getting on the dsmash train.

 

[Soft Serve]

D-smash is godlike, I need to break the melee habit of never using it.

I do like Fsmash for the better horizontal range (I think) and the long lasting hitboxes make it good for punished side-steps on reaction. WD back Fsmash is really fun to do against falco SH dair approaches because they Don't DI it.

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

So I'm sure someone has asked about this already, but for the SHDB I just can't seem to get the second one out. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Any help would be appreciated! :D

 

[Juushichi]

Try hitting the button faster?

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

I'm dumb. I thought it would have to be hit at the speed of a SHDL of falco in brawl xD

 

[Deleted member]

You jump and hit (Well, I actually just kind of mash during the jump) b as fast as you can. It's not like falcos shdl in brawl where you'd have to time it so one is high and one is low

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

Yes, that is where I was getting mistaken. I've got it down now. Thanks everyone! :D

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

a friend of mine wanted to know why they didnt make parachute g&w's up air and keep the fish bowl from brawl as his nair.

 

[Maestro_]

Cuz his up air is awesome.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Cuz his up air is awesome.

explain, or video evidence

 

[Maestro_]

It juggles, extends combos, has great priority (beats Falco's dair). You can see it in any high level GnW vid.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

It juggles, extends combos, has great priority (beats Falco's dair). You can see it in any high level GnW vid.

ok i will tell him, but for extra evidence who is a good g&w to show him a video of?

 

[Maestro_]

ok i will tell him, but for extra evidence who is a good g&w to show him a video of?

Dakpo

 

[Metmetm3t]

explain, or video evidence

Up Air is good, no doubt. But the real reason is

A) G&W has been in Project M since 1.0. His and the rest of the 1.0 cast were all designed to match Melee as closely as possible. Giving him Melee nair and Melee uair was just a natural design choice in order to fit that idea.

B) G&W's Brawl Nair would be ridiculously good in a Melee environment. In Brawl shield stun and hitstun were only just barely a thing. But in Project M they are a huge factor. Just imagine G&W throwing that fish bowl out repeatedly from below a platform or while juggling an opponent. There would be many characters who really just wouldn't be able to do anything about it (Think DK).

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Up Air is good, no doubt. But the real reason is

A) G&W has been in Project M since 1.0. His and the rest of the 1.0 cast were all designed to match Melee as closely as possible. Giving him Melee nair and Melee uair was just a natural design choice in order to fit that idea.

B) G&W's Brawl Nair would be ridiculously good in a Melee environment. In Brawl shield stun and hitstun were only just barely a thing. But in Project M they are a huge factor. Just imagine G&W throwing that fish bowl out repeatedly from below a platform or while juggling an opponent. There would be many characters who really just wouldn't be able to do anything about it (Think DK).

thanks for the replies, I will be sure to tell me friend these reasons and tell him to watch vids if he wants to see how to use g&w's upairs.

 

[jtm94]

So PM got cancelled at Fight Pitt IV due to time constraints and lack of staff members. Had 100 people for it and they were gonna make it single elimination, but they just cancelled.

There was this PM player from Delaware that showed up and he was AMAZING. I don't know how to beat MK with GnW, then I tried GnW vs his Sonic and I got scraped so hard.

 

[Juushichi]

GnW vs MK is hard.

 

[Soft Serve]

Sonic is really hard too due to his great movement and bait/punish game. Its a bit of a stretch but id liken his neutral game to a marth/falcon mix that can approach safely (sideb is safe/can end up behind us, and sidepb to footstool is a thing if we arent mashing up b)

Sonic has a really similar upb so if you get predictable he can chase us up there. Picking a stage like lylat for the platforms and abusing bacon/platform control is the most success ive gotten in the mu.

 

[Metmetm3t]

I don't agree that he's like Marth or Falcon in neutral. His dash dance is pretty bad. And side b is not as safe as it looks. He can only cancel it into baseball slide or jump, which both should lose to jump back fair or nair.

From my experience against Sonic, the thing I find the most infuriating is how easily he can break out of strings with Up-B > Dair and how ridiculously good his Up Air is.

 

[jtm94]

He can also cancel SideB into another SideB.
I lost to his SideB dragging me across the planet, the guy used Up Air on me 4 times in succession and KOd me at 40% off the top, all of his stuff seems safe on shield and I do not have any hitboxes to hit him with fast enough aside from uair, and bair if I have more time to react.

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

I have two questions:
1. What would be a good secondary to pick up behind G&W?
and
2. Do you guys use a different button layout for your controller? Just to make certain things easier?

 

[jtm94]

1. I have ABSOLUTELY no idea. I myself started maining Zelda for a few months, didn't like how bad she loses to some characters so picked up Diddy Kong and Lucas, ended up finding GnW to be EXTREMELY fun to play and now he's on par with my Diddy and Zelda fighting for my #1 spot.

2. I change R to attack, and X to footstool. This is so I can do DACUS with any character, and footstool. It also makes taunt cancelling easier.

 

[Soft Serve]

I have two questions:
1. What would be a good secondary to pick up behind G&W?
and
2. Do you guys use a different button layout for your controller? Just to make certain things easier?

1. the best options would be a character that help full out GnW's matchup spread. with marth/ivy being some of his worst matchups (yes/no good gnw players?) I'd recommend not picking up someone that takes a stupid long amount of time to become proficient with (no spacies unless you really want to) but I think like GnW/Mario is a pretty good MU spread if you really want a secondary. Mario goes even-ish with Ivy and Marth, doesn't struggle too much with shiek or other campy MUs, and the basics of mario aren't too difficult.

2. I use the same set up that jtm uses. Although I took the spring out of R so its just a digital input for melee power sheilds and it helps for DACUSing in PM.

 

[Juushichi]

Ivysaur, I don't think is that hard of a MU... but I'll have to play some better ones to confirm.

Sheik ironically takes care of most if not all of his bad MUs.

 

[jtm94]

I have thought about removing my spring as well since I use R for attack... I am very happy with what I have now though, but I may have to try it in the future.

Ivysaur confirmed for being either even, or ever so slightly in Ivy's favor. I can combo Ivy for years, but Ivy got dat insane UpB so I be dying MAD early sometimes.
The good thing is bair gimps don't work on GnW unless the Ivy comits HARD, but if you see them going for that just recover high.

 

[Juushichi]

If you grab the ledge and Ivy is forced to tether, she should die every time, I think. I'm almost (almost) willing to say that it's 55-45 our favor.

 

[QraQ]

I have thought about removing my spring as well since I use R for attack... I am very happy with what I have now though, but I may have to try it in the future.

Ivysaur confirmed for being either even, or ever so slightly in Ivy's favor. I can combo Ivy for years, but Ivy got dat insane UpB so I be dying MAD early sometimes.
The good thing is bair gimps don't work on GnW unless the Ivy comits HARD, but if you see them going for that just recover high.

It's not that hard of a commitment to bair off ledge for low edge-guard or to jump on with a bair. Both cover most of GnW options. I think Ivy vs GW is heavily in Ivy's favor though.

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

and if there is a GaW skype group or whatever, I'm JDGV45 on skype if ya wanna add me to that!

 

[Yung Mei]

skype group currently has too many people (active and inactive) so we're holding off on adding new people until further notice