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Unattractive Girls & Asexuality

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BarDulL

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Sex for sex' sake seems pointless.
Having the option of sex provides for opportunity and subsequently extends the options of the organism. You hear stories about people having sex with others but then they drop the relationship because it isn't within their interest to pursue anything further. It's true. You can't plan out relationships, they're a step by step process.
 

Holder of the Heel

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I believe that when Holder is saying "Progressing" that he means "adaptating."
Well that could be a part of it, but what I meant by that was biologically growing up and then dying. Basically, you're organism function is exactly what your organism functions are, no more or less. On the biological level, the "will to live" shall we say, is basically the blind force that runs everything, and we're just that on a larger scale. In other words, progressing, we're doing it right now. We're all doing what we are "meant" to be doing, in a sense. I don't mean progression towards happiness or any goals.

Quick hit.

"Simply living and progressing," but progressing towards what? You can't have progression without a goal or some kind of ideology of a perfect being in mind, otherwise you are merely changing as an organism which isn't necessarily "progression."

This is the part where I'd normally say "progression towards finding the best possible mate," is technically how an organism progresses. Getting physically fit, getting a job, living on your own, getting a car, and being self sustaining, are all various forms of societal progression that also act towards allowing you to get the best mate possible.
I still support that biologically and emotionally that there is more to us then doing everything for getting the most/best mates we can. Part of that progression may indeed be in having children, thus implying a "mate", but that doesn't change the fact that there interactions and friendships can still be platonic because there are more factors that come into play. Logically this seems true like I've said before, and through experience this seems intuitive. The only thing that I have granted and can grant is that an attractive female has more "potential" value than one we have no attraction to. This does indeed mean that relationships that are purely platonic are most definitely tentative, or have the potential to change and focus on the physical attraction part, apply emotions and desires with it, but these are not necessarily in place because it depends on the context of the situation between you and her, and you with everyone else.

And while getting fit, getting a job, living on your own, getting a car, etc. can all be incredibly beneficial to getting a mate/a good mate, and we all may think of that prior/while doing so, but that doesn't mean that that is the driving force to doing so. In other words, things can be coincidentally instrumental to something, or be "icing on the cake".

In order to think that happiness is the intrinsic value of all actions (the ultimate goal) and still to think the theory that you support, that would mean that sexual attraction/dominance is the penultimate goal. This means that ultimately, sexual attraction/dominance is the way to happiness. Now, while this means that things you can pursuit, like my philosophy classes, is ultimately for getting the ladies, but that is not what I think of when I think of it, nor do I see it being particularly successful because I wouldn't do much with it, nor am I social with it. In other words, it wouldn't be very good, yet I love it and it makes me happy. Now, you could still say it has the potential to increase my potential with the ladies, so it makes me happy still for your reason without me acknowledging it. Let's say I grant that, but we'd still have problems because it'd still not making me very happy because of its low "sexual utility" (just realized you're advocating sexual utilitarianism XD), yet I am pursuing it as my life career and favorite passion/joy.
 

Teran

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Lol, probably. Still, there's enjoyment to be had in attempting to understand what it really is.
Yes but it is understood what it is, a rush of dopamine to the reward centre of your brain giving you a massively addictive motivational drive to claim a person and keep them for yourself.

Edit: I like how people call sex for sex's sake pointless when ultimately, propagating the species is totally pointless as well.
 

Exdeath

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Edit: I like how people call sex for sex's sake pointless when ultimately, propagating the species is totally pointless as well.
Propagating the species prolongs the life of the species. It is more accurate to compare it with eating and drinking.
 

Claire Diviner

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Edit: I like how people call sex for sex's sake pointless when ultimately, propagating the species is totally pointless as well.
Propagating isn't pointless as it ensures the species will go on. Unless you're speaking with the idea that existence will cease in the end, which I can see the point, but that won't come for another several billion years... unless I'm missing a point entirely.
 

Teran

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Propagating the species prolongs the life of the species. It is more accurate to compare it with eating and drinking.
Propagating isn't pointless as it ensures the species will go on. Unless you're speaking with the idea that existence will cease in the end, which I can see the point, but that won't come for another several billion years... unless I'm missing a point entirely.
Yeah I know that propagating the species prolongs the life of the species, that is what the world propagating means. What I said was propagating the species is as pointless as having sex for pleasure. So a child is born and has sex and brings more children into the world. And? I'm only making this point from a non spiritual/religious view since if you hold those then it's an entirely different ballgame.

People who don't believe in an afterlife or a greater purpose have no reason to believe that simple personal pleasure is any less meaningful than propagating the species, because it isn't. There is no true point to your existence or the existence of the species, it's all just a result of random particle collisions and could end in a flash, and when there are no humans to remember and the world is just a barren wasteland, nothing anyone has ever done will ever matter because the universe does not care.

That comes off as some sort of nihilistic rant which is isn't meant to, I'm just saying you can't tier things in terms of "meaningful purpose" when ultimately the meaning of things is determined by a specific individual, doing what they want with their life before they croak.
 

BSL

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Sorry, jumping in without reading the rest of the thread so don't hate on me if I'm now off-topic.

I think unattractive is the wrong word. I wouldn't want to hang out with a girl attracted to me when I am not just not attracted to her, but unattracted to her. I know I used the same word, but I changed the context.

It gets a little awkward when you're with someone you just don't like and you know they really like you. Unfortunately, it's happened to me a lot and it sucks.
Good Work, Jump Man.
 

Holder of the Heel

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Everyone, except nihilism into your hearts! It will set you free!
 

Morin0

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Yeah I know that propagating the species prolongs the life of the species, that is what the world propagating means. What I said was propagating the species is as pointless as having sex for pleasure. So a child is born and has sex and brings more children into the world. And? I'm only making this point from a non spiritual/religious view since if you hold those then it's an entirely different ballgame.

People who don't believe in an afterlife or a greater purpose have no reason to believe that simple personal pleasure is any less meaningful than propagating the species, because it isn't. There is no true point to your existence or the existence of the species, it's all just a result of random particle collisions and could end in a flash, and when there are no humans to remember and the world is just a barren wasteland, nothing anyone has ever done will ever matter because the universe does not care.

That comes off as some sort of nihilistic rant which is isn't meant to, I'm just saying you can't tier things in terms of "meaningful purpose" when ultimately the meaning of things is determined by a specific individual, doing what they want with their life before they croak.
Screw that – humans will live forever!! We'll inhabit other planets if we need to!
 

Holder of the Heel

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Passe? How so? And how does that measure the truth of it?
 

Holder of the Heel

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I had my suspicions that you were joking, but the internet demands that I have to assume the meanings of things unless I ask, so I asked. My bad Luigi.
 

Teran

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It's what makes religion so appealing, everyone likes a purpose.
 

Exdeath

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Yeah I know that propagating the species prolongs the life of the species, that is what the world propagating means. What I said was propagating the species is as pointless as having sex for pleasure. So a child is born and has sex and brings more children into the world. And? I'm only making this point from a non spiritual/religious view since if you hold those then it's an entirely different ballgame.

People who don't believe in an afterlife or a greater purpose have no reason to believe that simple personal pleasure is any less meaningful than propagating the species, because it isn't. There is no true point to your existence or the existence of the species, it's all just a result of random particle collisions and could end in a flash, and when there are no humans to remember and the world is just a barren wasteland, nothing anyone has ever done will ever matter because the universe does not care.

That comes off as some sort of nihilistic rant which is isn't meant to, I'm just saying you can't tier things in terms of "meaningful purpose" when ultimately the meaning of things is determined by a specific individual, doing what they want with their life before they croak.
I don't know if this qualifies as a greater purpose. but many people believe that it will eventually be possible to achieve a life span as long as existence itself through technology.
 

Master Xanthan

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I don't know if this qualifies as a greater purpose. but many people believe that it will eventually be possible to achieve a life span as long as existence itself through technology.
Doesn't mean much for the people that won't be able to live long enough to experience such a breakthrough in technology.
 

Exdeath

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Doesn't mean much for the people that won't be able to live long enough to experience such a breakthrough in technology.
Perhaps, but considering that using DNA for data storage is already in testing, many of the users on this site have a reasonable expectation for such a thing to be possible in their lifetime. Whether it can or will happen is not relevant, provided that it gives them an illusion of hope.
 

GwJ

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Don't listen to him. That's just the influence of Babidi making him say such things.
 

Teran

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I don't know if this qualifies as a greater purpose. but many people believe that it will eventually be possible to achieve a life span as long as existence itself through technology.
Yeah I don't see how perpetuating a pointless existence makes it any less pointless. If the universe ends, which if it doesn't at least the death of the sun is a certainty for definite, there will be an end to human existence.

Man I hate sounding like this I feel like some INTJ prick being all like "yo like dude, life is so pointless man", but really I'm just trying to make the point that there is no point in trying to rank things in worth objectively, but rather attribute your own personal sense of worth to things.
 

Exdeath

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Yeah I don't see how perpetuating a pointless existence makes it any less pointless. If the universe ends, which if it doesn't at least the death of the sun is a certainty for definite, there will be an end to human existence.

Man I hate sounding like this I feel like some INTJ prick being all like "yo like dude, life is so pointless man", but really I'm just trying to make the point that there is no point in trying to rank things in worth objectively, but rather attribute your own personal sense of worth to things.
This takes for granted that objective taste matters more than subjective taste.
 

InternetDramaOhNoes

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It wouldn't bee too cool to float around in space forever and have to be axesual because everyone of the opposite gender is drifting away from you.
 

traffic.

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Well, the wonderful thing about the singularity of human ascension is that in order to do so we sacrifice being human.

Also, Exdeath, explain objective preference to me.


edit- on a third note, all arguments based on the reproductive initiative found in all animals becomes moot when you take sentience into consideration. Once cognitive bias sets in after early childhood, we immediately lose our primal initiative. so yeah, we stopped existing only to bump uglies after we became self-aware and conquered our surroundings. reproduction in the animal kingdom is to ensure survival. with the advent of health care and plastic safety guards, humanity's survival no longer rewards strong genetics, and in a slightly sociopathic light, has halted our positive evolution by allowing undesirable traits to spread and reproduce without the environmental threats that would in nature provide us with better stronger future-humans.

mid-edit-edit- i would just like to point out that i left out the psychological evolution humanity was free to go through after environmental threats stopped being an issue because it seemed redundant and unrelated to sex.

and if we were intrinsically tied to reproduction for survival/genetic reward, we wouldn't have things like music, or video games, or jobs, or cars, or clothes, because none of those things provide environmental protection, nor are they threatened in any way. and even in the cases where these things are used to determine mating partners, they serve no boon to the biological progression of said mating, they simply exist to coerce the ego into reproduction. birds of paradise, for example, have esoteric mating dances and calls and plumage, a similar mental list of things a partner needs in order to impress the other's preferences. however, this behaviour in all cases leads to smaller and smaller breeding pools (genetics noobins, this means the rapid evolution of unique species) and the inevitable extinction of the species that rewards criteria based reproduction.

to basically wrap it all up, you have free thought, you exist to do whatever you want, because you can want.
 

#HBC | Joker

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I like how this thread basically went from "Yo, you ever had an ugly friend you didn't like because they were ugly?"

to "What is the meaning of life?"
 

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Well, that's the problem with threads that start with a premise quickly answered by "Yes."

edit- upon revisiting our original thesis, i am confused. don't hang out with ugly people you dont like, for any reason, ever.

edit edit- duh. serrsly.
 

Teran

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This takes for granted that objective taste matters more than subjective taste.
No, you can't objectively rank things above each other if their ultimate worth is equal, that worth being nothing.
 

Ussi

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I'd say human technology is causing reproduction to go down. [see Japan]

inb4oilcausedanincreaseinpopulation
 

Exdeath

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Well, the wonderful thing about the singularity of human ascension is that in order to do so we sacrifice being human.

Also, Exdeath, explain objective preference to me.


edit- on a third note, all arguments based on the reproductive initiative found in all animals becomes moot when you take sentience into consideration. Once cognitive bias sets in after early childhood, we immediately lose our primal initiative. so yeah, we stopped existing only to bump uglies after we became self-aware and conquered our surroundings. reproduction in the animal kingdom is to ensure survival. with the advent of health care and plastic safety guards, humanity's survival no longer rewards strong genetics, and in a slightly sociopathic light, has halted our positive evolution by allowing undesirable traits to spread and reproduce without the environmental threats that would in nature provide us with better stronger future-humans.

mid-edit-edit- i would just like to point out that i left out the psychological evolution humanity was free to go through after environmental threats stopped being an issue because it seemed redundant and unrelated to sex.

and if we were intrinsically tied to reproduction for survival/genetic reward, we wouldn't have things like music, or video games, or jobs, or cars, or clothes, because none of those things provide environmental protection, nor are they threatened in any way. and even in the cases where these things are used to determine mating partners, they serve no boon to the biological progression of said mating, they simply exist to coerce the ego into reproduction. birds of paradise, for example, have esoteric mating dances and calls and plumage, a similar mental list of things a partner needs in order to impress the other's preferences. however, this behaviour in all cases leads to smaller and smaller breeding pools (genetics noobins, this means the rapid evolution of unique species) and the inevitable extinction of the species that rewards criteria based reproduction.

to basically wrap it all up, you have free thought, you exist to do whatever you want, because you can want.
In this context, I meant "objective taste" as the ability to measure "objective worth." Given that such a sense is based in subjectivity without a third-party (e.g. God) to inform to the contrary, it does not exist. From my understanding of this, the argument changes to something else.

What if humans haven't actually lost their "primal initiative," but rather have evolved to go about it in a way that is superficially different from other creatures? For example, opening the door for a woman and smiling at her does not seem to be a sexual advance, yet common culture has come to understand that this can be used as an "ice breaker" that advances him toward being able to make such an advance several steps down the line.

I do believe that cars, clothes, and jobs affect a person's survival; the former two even provide "environmental protection." Video games and music have a better basis for your argument, but, as you said, those too can be seen as mating criteria similar to bird calls and mating dances. You assume that because a mating criterion does not seem to hold a direct value to success (e.g. wealth) that it doesn't. What undesirable traits do you believe are being spread through the population?

No, you can't objectively rank things above each other if their ultimate worth is equal, that worth being nothing.
Unless it is given otherwise, you cannot determine objective value, making this argument moot.

I'd say human technology is causing reproduction to go down. [see Japan]

inb4oilcausedanincreaseinpopulation
Suicide is also up in Japan, which can have a negative impact on births. Correlation is not causation.
 

Teran

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Unless it is given otherwise, you cannot determine objective value, making this argument moot.
Sorry I don't quite grasp this, could you paraphrase it?
 

mobilisq

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On the other hand, I do think that sometimes you can see through unattractiveness if someone has a kind of trait you like. "Suddenly she is not that unattractive anymore..." I must say that the latter seems to go more often for girls 'suddenly' looking past atrractiveness than it goes for guys. Guys tend to look more at looks from my experience.
sorry if this has already been addressed somewhere in the thread, but this can just as easily be applied in the negative

it's really easy for an attractive person to suddenly become quite repulsive by virtue of their actions
 

Holder of the Heel

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I like how this thread basically went from "Yo, you ever had an ugly friend you didn't like because they were ugly?"

to "What is the meaning of life?"
If a discussion goes on long enough, regardless of the topic, it will eventually come to, "What is the meaning of life?"

Kind of like Godwin's Law that states that the bigger an online discussion gets the closer to the probability of 1 that Hitler is going to be mentioned.

I hereby dub this the "Holder Law", because people always name discoveries after themselves.
 
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