#UltimateDLCSoMale: The Female DLC Character Discussion

[Coolboy]

Banjo is as much as a vehicle for Kazooie as Kazooie is a weapon for Banjo. I don't see the problem.

if someone wouldn't know cause they haven't played the games then Kazooie would be seen as a character with no personality that is being used as a weapon by Banjo, if you played the games then of course you know better
my first impression on Kazooie was literally just that cause i haven't played the games,
i can understand why people aren't happy when they want a actual female character but get a female character that is objectified instead,
so the problem here is that Kazooie is objectified completely instead of being portrayed as her own character with her own personality.

 

[Deleted member]

if someone wouldn't know cause they haven't played the games then Kazooie would be seen as a character with no personality that is being used as a weapon by Banjo, if you played the games then of course you know better
my first impression on Kazooie was literally just that cause i haven't played the games,
i can understand why people aren't happy when they want a actual female character but get a female character that is objectified instead,
so the problem here is that Kazooie is objectified completely instead of being portrayed as her own character with her own personality.

If your first impression of Kazooie is relegating her to a weapon, than you are the one objectifying her. Those on the other side of the argument do not feel that way at all. Don't let your ignorance cloud your judgement because that's where the real problem arises.

 

[Night Gale]

Without any context or prior knowledge of the series, this is objectification in the literal sense.

I wouldn't blame anyone for getting the wrong impression.

 

[Deleted member]

Without any context or prior knowledge of the series, this is objectification in the literal sense.
I wouldn't blame anyone for getting the wrong impression.

If this was the only circumstance that involved Kazooie in Smash, you'd be correct however, she's very involved with their playstyle as I am sure you have witnessed.
If we take a look at Oxford's definition since we're on the subject of the literal sense:

verb
verb: objectify; 3rd person present: objectifies; past tense: objectified; past participle: objectified; gerund or present participle: objectifying
1.
degrade to the status of a mere object.
"a deeply sexist attitude that objectifies women"
2.
express (something abstract) in a concrete form.
"good poetry objectifies feeling"

I wanna focus on the first one. When objectifying someone or something, you are dehumanizing them (and I know that Kazooie's not a human but my point stands) to the point of being inessential. This is pretty much disproved with how much presence Kazooie has in Smash. Her name is mentioned on the fighters pass, her head shows up on the BK stock icon, the announcer refers to them both by name and not just "Banjo" and her utilities and what she has to offer consists of half their moveset (I'm just assuming it's half, haven't been counting). It's evident that they knew how important she is and how much of an injustice it would be to just treat her as just a "tool". If that's the case, why do they bother mentioning her?

Now about the Pack Whack. The Pack Whack is fukken awesome. And look at her face in that picture you shared. That's the face of consent right there. One thing that you have to keep in mind though that it's still just a quirky and silly move from a quirky and silly children's game being referenced in a current and more modern quirky and silly children's game. I do not think the developers were thinking about objectifying her when the idea of this move came into fruition but I do think that they were just figuring out ways to add more abilities by the time Banjo-Tooie was in development. The Pack Whack wasn't a thing in the first game. It's fun. It looks silly. It's very PG orientated and it's proven to be effective.

The thing is, video games are a form of art and things are going to get very subjective especially on the topic of first impressions. I wouldn't blame anyone for getting the wrong impression either. I will blame them though if they decide to ignore reason coming from those that have actually played the BK games when trying to explain that their impression may not be the case. I don't expect anyone that hasn't played the games to get into them, and I'm not gonna push that on anyone because I'm pretty sure some peoples minds here have been made up and that they don't really want to, and that's okay. That's why boomers like myself is hear to help you evaluate who the character is and what her purpose is.

And even after all that, if you still only see a tool or a weapon and you want to ignore the context that's been brought up many times, then where's the objectification coming from? Certainly not me. Highly doubtful it came from the developers making a children's game.

You are the one degrading her to a status of irrelevancy by comparing her to an inanimate object. You are the one dismissing the abilities and utilities Kazooie has to offer by just bringing up one example and going: "LOOK SHE'S BEING OBJECTIFIED". You are the one ignoring her and only seeing a bear. By the literal definition of the word, you are doing the objectification, which imo, is quite shameful especially (and ironically) at the expense of a female character in a thread that's essentially about Smash female activism.
(Now I don't mean YOU specifically, I'm moreso speaking about the general consensus some people share but hey, if the boot fits.)

And I'mma just add one last thing so my long winded post doesn't get taken outta context again like some of my previous posts I've made here:
I'm not trying to sell anyone on the idea of BK being the equivalent of a standalone female character because it involves Kazooie. I'm only trying to sell you on the fact that Kazooie exists, and she exists in the fighters pass. Duo or not, she's right there and there's no need to sweep her under the rug to get your agenda across.

 

[MaddaD]

Topic changes to Kazooie not counting as a female rep
Topic changes to Kazooie being objectified
Topic changes to Flavor of the Month character leaks
Topic changes to a newcomer saying that another female rep would be great and mentions Kazooie
Topic changes to Kazooie not counting as a female rep
Topic changes to Kazooie being objectified

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

The 80-20 ratio on the poll brings a small smile to my face.

While I'm pessimistic about Season 2, it's quite good seeing the support. Though I'm curious as to why there is a sizable "No" portion. Would you be so kind to explain? In not less than 10 sentences?

1)would be easier to explain if the poll wasnt simply "yes" and "no"
2) sorry but gtfo of here with that less then 10 sentences crap. Thats needlessly restrictive

 

[Hedgehugs]

I feel like most people who had put "No" meant it like "I wouldn't mind a female character, but it's not necessary."

 

[Deleted member]

I didn't vote.

If the question was something like "Would you like to see a female character in the DLC?" I woulda voted yes in a heartbeat. When I hear "Should we..." my mind immediately goes to "on what basis?".

 

[MaddaD]

Though I'm curious as to why there is a sizable "No" portion. Would you be so kind to explain?

I'll bite. I didn't vote because there's 2 options, purely done so for the intent of having a skewed result. My answer (along with numerous others) to the question was "Yeah, but as long as long as it's fun to play / not forced/ etc." Since there's no option, I'm not gunna vote yes on something that's a completely different answer than the one I gave.

In not less than 10 sentences?

How to Destroy Your Viewpoint in 1 Easy Step
also *no

 

[Coolboy]

If your first impression of Kazooie is relegating her to a weapon, than you are the one objectifying her. Those on the other side of the argument do not feel that way at all. Don't let your ignorance cloud your judgement because that's where the real problem arises.

instead of accusing me of objectifying her, you should blame the ones who actually objectified her! in this case that are the ones who created the character(s) for smash
i just think it's fairly easy to blame me for stating a true fact at this point cause you don't like to hear it, but that's cool no hard feelings
so are you really gonna deny that the smash team objectified Kazooie? and instead i am the 1 objectifying her? smh

have you even bothered to read what i said? apparently you didn't -.-
i clearly said i have NOT played the games so i didn't know any better and even if i did it wouldn't take away that Kazooie is being used as just a weapon in smash, why do i even have to defend myself? like geez this is the 2nd time i get blamed for this even though it's not even my fault to begin with,

 

[AustarusIV]

I just want characters like KOS-MOS and 2B in because I think they’d be neat. Their gender really isn’t that much of a factor to me tbh, though having a robot girl in Smash would be pretty awesome,

Shame to see so many people put them down (as well as most humanoid females in general) as little more than “waifu characters”, though. 2B isn’t even my favorite character from NieR, for Pete’s sake!

 

[1FC0]

I feel like most people who had put "No" meant it like "I wouldn't mind a female character, but it's not necessary."

Reading this topic certainly seems to suggest that since many people have shared that opinion and I've yet to see someone say they are against a female in Smash.

Also "objectifying" is a meaningless term here IMO. You could say that Banjo objectifies Kazooie by using her as a weapon but it could also be the case that Banjo likes using people as weapons. It's comparable to the mistaken belief that men objectify women by finding them sexy which is often held by people who do not know that men generally prefer intercourse with a person over intercourse with an object. Objectification is all in the mind of the one doing it and thus the only way to know if it's going on is by looking in one's mind.

 

[scoobymcsnack]

instead of accusing me of objectifying her, you should blame the ones who actually objectified her! in this case that are the ones who created the character(s) for smash
i just think it's fairly easy to blame me for stating a true fact at this point cause you don't like to hear it, but that's cool no hard feelings
so are you really gonna deny that the smash team objectified Kazooie? and instead i am the 1 objectifying her? smh

have you even bothered to read what i said? apparently you didn't -.-
i clearly said i have NOT played the games so i didn't know any better and even if i did it wouldn't take away that Kazooie is being used as just a weapon in smash, why do i even have to defend myself? like geez this is the 2nd time i get blamed for this even though it's not even my fault to begin with,

But the side smash is only one attack. Kazooie helps with running, jumping, and other attacks (most of which don't involve Banjo using her as a weapon). They are very clearly working as a team, and Kazooie "uses" Banjo as a weapon just as much as he "uses" her.
The Smash team did not objectify her. They carefully crafted fighter that works as a team.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll bite. I didn't vote because there's 2 options, purely done so for the intent of having a skewed result. My answer (along with numerous others) to the question was "Yeah, but as long as long as it's fun to play / not forced/ etc." Since there's no option, I'm not gunna vote yes on something that's a completely different answer than the one I gave.


How to Destroy Your Viewpoint in 1 Easy Step
also *no

You're being too harsh. You would've just told me that this isn't ideal, rather than just outright saying that my viewpoint is destroyed.

Geez, back with the Kazooie discussion. This is getting tiring.

 

[Deleted member]

Bruh.

instead of accusing me of objectifying her, you should blame the ones who actually objectified her!

I am. You. And anyone else that refuses to recognize Kazooie as a character. Granted, not the standalone female rep we would all like to see, but a female character in the DLC nontheless. Want me to stop accusing you? Then stop objectifying her. You can start by acknowledging her as something that isn't inanimate. Ez ¯\_(o_O)_/¯

in this case that are the ones who created the character(s) for smash

I think you mean to say: the ones who created the characters for Banjo-Kazooie. That being said, no.

i just think it's fairly easy to blame me for stating a true fact at this point cause you don't like to hear it, but that's cool no hard feelings
so are you really gonna deny that the smash team objectified Kazooie? and instead i am the 1 objectifying her? smh

I didn't blame you for stating a true fact. That requires you to state a true fact lol. Your previous post is purely based on your impression and coming to terms with those that share that impression. That's not a bad thing at all but where are these "true facts" you speak of? All I see are agenda driven emotions.

And yes, I am going to continue to deny the smash team objectified her (and RARE for that matter). They didn't create BK or their moveset. They just worked it into Smash. If you read my last post, you'd clearly understand why.
Speaking of which:

have you even bothered to read what i said? apparently you didn't -.-

Pot, meet Kettle.

i clearly said i have NOT played the games so i didn't know any better and even if i did it wouldn't take away that Kazooie is being used as just a weapon in smash, why do i even have to defend myself? like geez this is the 2nd time i get blamed for this even though it's not even my fault to begin with,

You don't have to defend yourself. No one is attacking you. Take it easy pal. It's called civil discourse...
Okay, SEMI-civil discourse at least. I'll admit that I've been a little patronizing and I apologize but c'mon man. If your perception is that Kazooie is just a weapon than maybe you should reevaluate your perception. I'd go into detail on why and how, but I'd be repeating myself... again. And I don't want to ironically play the sexist card again. Using labels makes me feel dirty.

 

[Planet Cool]

if someone wouldn't know cause they haven't played the games then Kazooie would be seen as a character with no personality that is being used as a weapon by Banjo, if you played the games then of course you know better
my first impression on Kazooie was literally just that cause i haven't played the games,
i can understand why people aren't happy when they want a actual female character but get a female character that is objectified instead,
so the problem here is that Kazooie is objectified completely instead of being portrayed as her own character with her own personality.

I don't think it's fair to say that Kazooie has "no personality" in Smash. Her face and animations are very expressive. The same goes for other characters that people accuse of being boring, like Mario.

That having been said, I totally get that people want a female character that (literally) stands on her own instead of being paired with a male character. The biggest/most popular female video game hero that's not already in Smash is probably Lara Croft, but now that she belongs to Square-Enix, I doubt she'll make it.

 

[MaddaD]

You're being too harsh.

Honey, this isn't even harsh. I've screamed at people on WoW forums for sillier things than this.

Cutting 90% of the fat out of my message, all I said (and a few others) was that the poll isn't indicative of what most people who answer it want.

You would've just told me that this isn't ideal, rather than just outright saying that my viewpoint is destroyed.

Of course, I'm being facetious about it, but it's very telling of how you treat differing opinions.

"Hey Pie Lovers. I'm very curious about why you guys don't like Cake. Can you tell me?"
"Also, make sure to do so under MY restrictions."

It sends the message that you don't actually care about the feedback given. That they have to intentionally handicap a response because you can't be bothered to read a thorough and detailed response about their feelings, which, y'know, kinda matter.

 

[Deleted member]

Honey, this isn't even harsh. I've screamed at people on WoW forums for sillier things than this.

Cutting 90% of the fat out of my message, all I said (and a few others) was that the poll isn't indicative of what most people who answer it want.


Of course, I'm being facetious about it, but it's very telling of how you treat differing opinions.

"Hey Pie Lovers. I'm very curious about why you guys don't like Cake. Can you tell me?"
"Also, make sure to do so under MY restrictions."

It sends the message that you don't actually care about the feedback given. That they have to intentionally handicap a response because you can't be bothered to read a thorough and detailed response about their feelings, which, y'know, kinda matter.

To be fair, Lesley has been pretty vigilant with the conversations that I've had with her and she gets props from me for it. I feel like a lot of the comments she makes are pretty reactionary with little thought put into them before tapping that Post Reply button but hey, that happens especially to somebody who quite clearly has a passion for this sorta thing. She's been a lot more civil and open minded about any of the rebuttals presented to her, at least compared to some other folks that hold the same opinions as her.

 

[Coolboy]

I am. You. And anyone else that refuses to recognize Kazooie as a character. Granted, not the standalone female rep we would all like to see, but a female character in the DLC nontheless. Want me to stop accusing you? Then stop objectifying her. You can start by acknowledging her as something that isn't inanimate. Ez ¯\_(o_O)_/¯

i think you are mistaken me there my dude, i never said she is just a weapon in her own game that is why i mentioned multiple times that i m talking about Kazooie in smash and not as Kazooie in the games shes from, i know there is a difference between that, like there are other characters in Smash who aren't portrayed the same way as in their games

I think you mean to say: the ones who created the characters for Banjo-Kazooie. That being said, no.

eh didn't i say that though? cause i thought i did?

I didn't blame you for stating a true fact. That requires you to state a true fact lol. Your previous post is purely based on your impression and coming to terms with those that share that impression. That's not a bad thing at all but where are these "true facts" you speak of? All I see are agenda driven emotions.

i support the thought of female fighters yeah, either next pass or as 5th DLC, and i am not hating on Kazooie btw just the way she is portrayed,

You don't have to defend yourself. No one is attacking you. Take it easy pal. It's called civil discourse...
Okay, SEMI-civil discourse at least. I'll admit that I've been a little patronizing and I apologize but c'mon man. If your perception is that Kazooie is just a weapon than maybe you should reevaluate your perception. I'd go into detail on why and how, but I'd be repeating myself... again. And I don't want to ironically play the sexist card again. Using labels makes me feel dirty.

i can get easily defensive when i think people are accusing me of things or attack me verbally, i got my personal reasons why that is but i rather not share that openly in a forum thread....
anyhow no not at all as i said in my first sentence i know there is a difference between smash and games a character is from,
that i see Kazooie a certain way in smash doesn't mean i see her as 1 outside smash, i admit i used to think differently on Kazooie but after looking some stuff up (Wiki is everyone's bff lol) i now know better about Kazooie's own character outside smash, but even before this i explained that i had no knowledge about Kazooie like at all,
well if you had called me a sexist (which i am not btw cause i have many respect for females, there are enough examples on that i could give but i don't have to tell 1 person in a forum about my whole life just to proof something) i wouldn't had replied back so calmly, i stay mostly calm in discussions etc as long as i am not getting called things i am not cause that honestly bothers me alot >.>

 

[Planet Cool]

Banjo does use Kazooie as a club in Banjo-Tooie, and that's technically objectification, but when we say a female character in a video game is objectified, we usually mean she's sexualized. That definitely isn't happening here and I think it's important to point it out. There's a big difference between Kazooie being used as a weapon in a funny bit of cartoon slapstick that everyone can enjoy and a female character being turned into a fetish object for (presumably) straight male gamers.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

if someone wouldn't know cause they haven't played the games then Kazooie would be seen as a character with no personality that is being used as a weapon by Banjo, if you played the games then of course you know better

You don't know what conclusions other people will make. It's foolish to assume people will think just like you.

my first impression on Kazooie was literally just that cause i haven't played the games,

That's your problem then, not the developers. They don't make characters so people who haven't seen them before will completely understand them. They make them to reflect their game (usually, sorry Ganondorf), and if people haven't played their game, oh well. A quick google search should explain 90% of things.

i can understand why people aren't happy when they want a actual female character but get a female character that is objectified instead,
so the problem here is that Kazooie is objectified completely instead of being portrayed as her own character with her own personality.

If you came to the conclusion that Kazooie is a weapon because you don't know about their game, it is you who is objectifying her as a result of lack of knowledge. Anyone who knows how the B&K games work knows that they work as a team. They help each other move around (Banjo walks, Kazooie runs and has Wonder Wing) and attack (their entire moveset is split between the two of them individualy attacking or working as a team). Kazooie isn't being portrayed as an object in any way: You simply see it that way because you didn't know how they functioned in their game. That's your fault.

Finally, you do realize that "objectified" typically refers to a character being sexualized, right? I don't see Kazooie being showed in provocative ways at all. I think you need to pick a better word.

 

[Deleted member]

Finally, you do realize that "objectified" typically refers to a character being sexualized, right? I don't see Kazooie being showed in provocative ways at all. I think you need to pick a better word.

I essentially agree with your point and I'm on board with ya but I do want to point out that objectification isn't exclusive to sexualization. Men, animals and even large masses of people whether it be a community or a civilization can also subject to objectified given the circumstances. Sexualization against women is just a more common form of objectification all over the world, which is a real shame but it's not the case here.

I believe I was the first to refer to the objectification of Kazooie which I still believe is the case some people here are guilty of. In this case, the objectification is more stemmed from instrumentality and inertness which are only just 2 major properties of objectification. These can be implimented into dehumanizing someone, sex or not. So the word "objectify" is still pretty relevant to the conversation and it doesn't need to involve sexualization for the accusations to hold any ground.

 

[Coolboy]

Finally, you do realize that "objectified" typically refers to a character being sexualized, right? I don't see Kazooie being showed in provocative ways at all. I think you need to pick a better word.

actually no i didn't, objectification means someone being seen as a object or what i meant is Kazooie being used as merely a weapon, what does that have to do with sexualization?
english isn't my main language so when i try my best to describe something and i see people using certain words that i think have a certain meaning i think i could use them to make myself easier to understand, you have no idea how many times i have to read over my replies to make sure what i say at least make somewhat sense, believe it or not it's a bit of a struggle but i am trying my best here, and then when i finally think i described something the right way i get accused of things i am not so of course i get defensive then.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

In all this fighting over Kazooie's role in the DLC, here's two female Rare characters who would definitively fight on their own and frankly should have been added a while ago.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh dear...how long is this Kazooie discussion gonna last? I'm tired of giving my thoughts on it when I exhausted it in earlier posts...

Point is, what we're looking for here is a standalone female rep.

 

[Planet Cool]

I'm definitely in support of both Dixie and Krystal, especially the former (DKC2 on SNES is my all-time favorite game). She and classic/pig Ganon are my most wanted characters.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I'm not the one pretending that people who want more women in the game do not care about character design.

It should be considered for the same reason that it does in damn near every other fighting game nowadays. Perhaps more so since this is an all-star fighter that has now taken on the role of a video game museum.

Super Smash is fun because you get to play as a bunch of characters that mean something to someone. Function over form is the type of mentality that killed Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite. They are aware of the series' historical lack of playable women on the roster and mentioned it when there was an increase from Brawl to Smash for 3DS/Wii U.

When people demand characters in a game because of their gender rather than their other attributes in order to combat sexism and promote representation, it tells me that they care little about design and more about the genitalia they have. Perhaps not you specifically, but that's the impression that this thread has been given since day 1. Some posts even say "I just want more females" and not much else.

Funnily, everyone dodges the point when called out about it.

Tell me, do you think everyone in the Fighters Pass was chosen because they were mostly male or because they had a place in the gaming industry? You can easily make a history retrospective for each of their series.

And I agree about Smash being fun because of who the characters are and not just because of what they do. This is why I'm not against clones in Smash because they are way to add extras with little effort but still get the character in for those who like them; someone like Dark Samus may have the same moves as Samus but her different animations exude a personality unique from here. And this is also why demanding females for the sake of being female diminishes this value.

 

[Khao]

When people demand characters in a game because of their gender rather than their other attributes in order to combat sexism and promote representation, it tells me that they care little about design and more about the genitalia they have.

Gender is part of a character's design, so what the heck are you on about.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Gender is part of a character's design, so what the heck are you on about.

Does gender affect how your character plays in Smash for the most part?

 

[Khao]

Does gender affect how your character plays in Smash for the most part?

No.

What does that have to do with character design?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

No.

What does that have to do with character design?

Buddy, read the previous posts from a few pages ago and you will understand the point I was coming from because I'm not going to bother now.
If you want to butt in into a the middle of a discussion you weren't being a part of at least do your homework properly.

 

[Khao]

Buddy, read the previous posts from a few pages ago and you will understand the point I was coming from because I'm not going to bother now.
If you want to butt in into a the middle of a discussion you weren't being a part of at least do your homework properly.

Sheesh, I didn't expect such a passive-agressive response.

I have read your posts. You're being condescending to everyone making almost no points whatsoever. You mock people for caring about gender and dismissing the idea entirely. The fact that you say that you don't have a problem with clones for bringing in new personalities but saying that the very idea of requesting a character due to gender (when in no case is that the only factor) is just... contradictory to me. Like you said, new personalities can bring a lot of enjoyment to the game for multiple people. A larger variety of characters makes for a potentially more approachable roster. How in the world is gender any difference, and why would that detract from other factors? Yes, there is already a lot of variety here, but the roster does have a massive gender imbalance. Wether or not that's a problem is up to you. But all you're doing is going "why push an agenda for vaginas" as if having a desire for that to change is an insult to humanity. No one's pushing an agenda. Including more women won't make the game political. These people are literally just noticing that more male characters are getting added than female and saying it would be cool if that wasn't the case.

Seems to me like the one with an agenda is not the people you're arguing with.

 

[Deleted member]

Sheesh, I didn't expect such a passive-agressive response.

I have read your posts. You're being condescending to everyone making almost no points whatsoever. You mock people for caring about gender and dismissing the idea entirely. The fact that you say that you don't have a problem with clones for bringing in new personalities but saying that the very idea of requesting a character due to gender (when in no case is that the only factor) is just... contradictory to me. Like you said, new personalities can bring a lot of enjoyment to the game for multiple people. A larger variety of characters makes for a potentially more approachable roster. Yes, there is already a lot of variety here, but the roster does have a massive gender imbalance. Wether or not that's a problem is up to you. But all you're doing is going "why push an agenda for vaginas" as if having a desire for that to change is an insult to humanity. No one's pushing an agenda. Including more women won't make the game political. These people are literally just noticing that more male characters are getting added than female and saying it would be cool if that wasn't the case.

Seems to me like the one with an agenda is not the people you're arguing with.

While he does bring up some points, I kind of believe that he just waltzed in here and mocked what the thread desired. I mean, we're no different than other support groups. Wanting females is just equivalent of wanting characters because they're cool. Gender is just a request that opens up big cans of worms.

He is quite interesting to say his thoughts, but he's rebuking it. I don't know how to handle him;it's like he's providing little contribution to the discussion and just being a bit toxic.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Point is, what we're looking for here is a standalone female rep.

Hypothetically speaking, would you be happy if a male character for FP5 got a female alt? (Ex. Jill for Leon, Kaede for Makoto, Athena for Phoenix, ect.)

 

[Planet Cool]

Tell me, do you think everyone in the Fighters Pass was chosen because they were mostly male or because they had a place in the gaming industry?

The gaming industry has always had a male bias, stemming from the false assumption that only boys (and more recently, adult men) like video games. That's why video game characters are disproportionately male and why the Smash Bros. roster looks the way it does. Including more female characters is one way to help combat that bias. I don't know about you, but I think making Smash slightly more welcoming to girls and women is more important than accurately representing the (very problematic) history of electronic toys.

Besides, it's not like there aren't dozens of female characters who "have a place in the gaming industry" but aren't in Smash. For example, Chun Li and Lara Croft are more iconic than any three Fighter Pass characters (and several base roster characters) combined.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Gender is part of a character's design, so what the heck are you on about.

Does it matter if the character sucks eggs tho?

Sure you got your chick but what if she was absolute garbage fire of a character

 

[Coolboy]

While he does bring up some points, I kind of believe that he just waltzed in here and mocked what the thread desired. I mean, we're no different than other support groups. Wanting females is just equivalent of wanting characters because they're cool. Gender is just a request that opens up big cans of worms.

He is quite interesting to say his thoughts, but he's rebuking it. I don't know how to handle him;it's like he's providing little contribution to the discussion and just being a bit toxic.

in my opinion i do find it rude when someone jumps into a support thread to hate on it or go all out trying to proof those supporters wrong,
i honestly think if this guy wanted to talk about his mindset on this since he disagrees with this support thread, then he should kinda makes his own thread about it where he can go all out,

as for myself i don't want to see Geno getting into smash, but that doesn't mean i will go to Geno's support thread to show how much i disagree and don't want to see him etc. cause that would be a very toxic jerk move of me,

 

[nessdeltarune00]

The Banjo-Kazooie remake also fell through.
Terry had almost no popularity outside of Latin America and in hardcore FGC circles.
Right now, the evidence points toward KOS-MOS hard, and until hardER evidence comes to dismiss her, everything else is noise.

My guy, Banjo was added because of literally years of fan demand. And without Terry and KOF, there would be no Smash, period. And the only “evidence” for her right now is the takedown, and considering that the uploader is a huge KOS-MOS fan, it is just as likely that the uploader false flagged their video to create false hype for their most wanted.

I’m sorry to say, but she is completely unknown to people outside of hardcore Smash circles, doesn’t have the fan demand of Banjo, and because of Haradas comment, there wouldn’t even be a business motivation anymore (Lloyd and Heihachi would be their main contenders if Namco was calling the shots, as proven by their lack of interest in Xenosaga).

Literally the only hope she has atm is that Sakurai is low key a huge fan of Xenosaga.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Does it matter if the character sucks eggs tho?

Sure you got your chick but what if she was absolute garbage fire of a character

No one's asking for characters that suck eggs? There are plenty of female characters that don't fit that category, and frankly a lot of choices that should have been added a while ago.

SMH again with this strawman assuming people who want more female characters do not care about anything else.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

No one's asking for characters that suck eggs? There are plenty of female characters that don't fit that category, and frankly a lot of choices that should have been added a while ago.

SMH again with this strawman assuming people who want more female characters do not care about anything else.

Except that is 100% the mindset of the very person that created this thread.


When the thread creator alone has this mindset, (Can’t speak for everyone else though) can you blame people for having that mindset?