#UltimateDLCSoMale: The Female DLC Character Discussion

[Deleted member]

Seriously though if a creator wants to put any kind of character in their work, they can. It isn't forced.

Nobody is saying that lol. Don't misrepresent our views, please. We're not accusing all variations or forms of diversity as being forced. We are pointing out that it is possible for diversity to be forced and when it is it usually turns out to be bad and whoever is doing it is doing it in bad faith. That's all.

Not all diversity is forced though, of course. I am happy to concede to that. Natural diversity is good for our society to help us prosper and grow as a civilization so we can continue to live in (at least part of) a world where we can treat everyone with fairness and impartiality. We need help to continue to break down some of these institutionalized and systematic barriers that still linger to this day and diversity is one of the best things we have adopted to combat it. However, this doesn't mean that diversity is immune to be used as a tool to help an individual or communal group push their agenda. Whether it's from corrupt politicians who care more about how much money they have in their pockets than human beings, or some snob selfish game developer that wants appraisal from the public for being so "inclusive" and give themselves a pat on the back about it later. It's all about the intentions and the actions taken and saying that all intentions and actions are somehow by default good because diversity is involved is so goddamn ignorant.

It happens. Whether it's uncommon or not. It. Happens. And we human beings are far too ****ing dumb to interfere with something that holds so much positive substance and influence on our society.

 

[The Spirit Master]

Dixie Kong, Viridi, Krystal, Asley,

 

[Deleted member]

Regarding all this forced diversity stuff. I could say that I'm 60% against it and 40% supporting it. Whether you don't want your set of characters to be just "stereotypical male archetypes" or be "diverse with so many qualities" depends on the maker. In spite of this, I just feel that Sakurai will have the final word with this roster problem (if it's even a problem to some;that is subjective). At the end of the day, it's Sakurai revealing the stuff, and no matter what, I just feel like responding to whatever the final product is.

 

[Night Gale]

Nobody is saying that lol. Don't misrepresent our views, please. We're not accusing all variations or forms of diversity as being forced. We are pointing out that it is possible for diversity to be forced and when it is it usually turns out to be bad and whoever is doing it is doing it in bad faith. That's all.

Not all diversity is forced though, of course. I am happy to concede to that. Natural diversity is good for our society to help us prosper and grow as a civilization so we can continue to live in (at least part of) a world where we can treat everyone with fairness and impartiality. We need help to continue to break down some of these institutionalized and systematic barriers that still linger to this day and diversity is one of the best things we have adopted to combat it. However, this doesn't mean that diversity is immune to be used as a tool to help an individual or communal group push their agenda. Whether it's from corrupt politicians who care more about how much money they have in their pockets than human beings, or some snob selfish game developer that wants appraisal from the public for being so "inclusive" and give themselves a pat on the back about it later. It's all about the intentions and the actions taken and saying that all intentions and actions are somehow by default good because diversity is involved is so goddamn ignorant.

It happens. Whether it's uncommon or not. It. Happens. And we human beings are far too ****ing dumb to interfere with something that holds so much positive substance and influence on our society.

My point is that you are perceiving it as forced, in any instances you dislike for whatever reasons you may have. If creators want to market something to underrepresented demographics, so be it. It doesn't matter if they have an agenda or whatever. Questionable, perhaps, but when it occurs in fictional works it is innocuous at worst, and downright awesome at best.

 

[Deleted member]

My point is that you are perceiving it as forced,

No. Stop. Just ****ing stop, kiddo. You are taking my views out incredibly of context and it's really pissing me off now. I'm not saying it's all forced. Stop assuming what my perception is. You make good points but it's like you have zero reading comprehension and refuse to accept the other point of view because it doesn't line up with your biased point of view. You are not hearing what I am saying and only hearing things what you want to hear. Stop.

in any instances you dislike for whatever reasons you may have.

Again, you are wrong. How the hell do you even know? I've given very broad examples but have never gotten into full detail about how I feel or what I specifically dislike. You don't know. So why are you making assumptions?

If creators want to market something to underrepresented demographics, so be it.

Okay? When have I disagreed with this? When have I made the case for the opposite? I haven't. Yes. So be it. As long as it's in good faith, I'm on board. But you are just so blindly following this sort of idealism where: "Diversity always good. Diversity never can fall into the wrong hands. Diversity always good." like some mindless feminist drone.

Of course it's ****ing good! Why am I repeating myself? It's ****ing GREAT but it's not immune for being used as something to push the agenda's of bad people. Like, can you please read what we are trying to say?!

It doesn't matter if they have an agenda or whatever.

PFFFFFFFFFT.
k. Alright. Whateeeeever you say there bucko. Suuuuuure agendas don't matter lol.

gtfo

Questionable, perhaps, but when it occurs in fictional works it is innocuous at worst, and downright awesome at best.

You're. Not. Reading. What. We're. ****ing. Saying. Do you want me to draw you a picture or something because some imbalance you may or may not have is clearly clouding your reading comprehension.

I hate to get so heated and so mad about this but I am a progressive and I will never stop being one. The kind of attitude that you have right now is a ****ing prime example why people on the other side point at us, mock and ridicule us. If you want to be a progressive in 2020 you're gonna have to hear some **** that you don't like and not only hear the things you want to hear. It is up to us to us to put our selves in the line of fire and just hear out arguments that we may not agree with and adopt it as our own so we can seek out to find out if it is true. If it is (and in this case, it is, you can hide under your bed all you want and keep playing pretend kiddo, but it is) then it is up to us to make sure that we can come up with some reaffirmation so that something so admired and so important (like diversity) doesn't fall into peoples hands with selfish and harmful agendas.

But if you want to sit there and cover your ears and go "lalalalala", fine but it's ****ing atrocious.

 

[Night Gale]

I think I struck a nerve. Sorry. Do calm down, bruh.

Please elaborate on these spooky agendas. Of course someone can use it for personal gain. So? What other agendas could there be? Oh, I don't know, inclusion?

Anywho, this is getting off topic af, so we're better off dropping it.

 

[Deleted member]

I think I struck a nerve. Sorry. Do calm down, bruh.

No. Apology not accepted. **** you.

Please elaborate on these spooky agendas. Of course someone can use it for personal gain. So? What other agendas could there be? Oh, I don't know, inclusion?

Anywho, this is getting off topic af, so we're better off dropping it.

Which one is it? Get into detail or drop it? Now you're flip flopping.

 

[Night Gale]

It was posted in another topic but supposedly we can preorder fighter number five on the Eshop. I am uncertain if this hints towards an upcoming release but it might. I expect an announcement no later than the 22nd of this month.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

No. Apology not accepted. **** you.

Buddy, I suggest leaving the thread and going off to do something else to cool your head if you're going to be this heated. Maybe something relaxing and/or an activity you personally enjoy. Clearly, nothing constructive is going on here regardless.

 

[Deleted member]

This thread is pretty... entertaining.

 

[Deleted member]

Buddy, I suggest leaving the thread and going off to do something else to cool your head if you're going to be this heated. Clearly, nothing constructive is going on here regardless.

Apologies, but I'm not going anywhere. Y'all are stuck with me. This is my second favourite thread now and I plan to continue posting and sharing my thoughts to balance out the conversation and prevent a collective hivemind. I think it's totally justified to get upset when someone who clearly can't pay attention misrepresents and skews your views. Fortunately, I get over things quick and frankly I enjoy a good back and fourth banter.

 

[Firox]

With all this talk about realistic diversity, I had a thought: Diversity wouldn't be considered "forced" in a general sense if diversity was representative of "reality". For example, if you have a bag of M&M's with 25% red, 25% blue, 30% yellow and 20% green, it would be a false statement to say that blue is under-represented when in reality green is the only one that's slightly lacking. Either way, if every bag had a consistent percentage of each color, then you should never expect to see more than 20% green without "forced" intervention.

That said, I do think it's important to note that the vast majority of engendered video game characters are male, likely due to the fact that most of the video game developers/target audiences have been predominantly male over the last few decades. While we've seen more females emerge over the last decade or so, I think they might still be a significant minority. With that in mind, I'm curious if everyone would be able to list all known/reasonably possible characters yet to get into Smash. I'm curious what the estimated percentage of engendered characters turns out to be. Like, if we get at least 1/5 to be female, then there should be a reasonable statistical chance that the last fighter pass character would be female. Granted, Sakurai is the last say and can nullify this whole idea, but I'm just curious what the numbers are.

Some female characters off the top of my head that I'd think have a decent chance are:
KOS-MOS
Lara Croft
Tifa
Dixie Kong
Chun Li
Shantae

Male ones would be:
Geno
Lloyd
Nightmare
Heihachi
Doomslayer
Dragonborn (though could have a female alt)

Not sure what other ideas you have. BTW, I'm not counting AT's as viable characters. (Sorry, I'm just not.) Anything else is fair game though.

 

[Deleted member]

This thread is pretty... entertaining.

Tbh I'm quite tired of reiterating some of my points here when they've been touched on before.

All I'm doing is just reading the discussion and keeping an eye out in case real **** gets started here.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

With that in mind, I'm curious if everyone would be able to list all known/reasonably possible characters yet to get into Smash. I'm curious what the estimated percentage of engendered characters turns out to be.

That's quite subjective on which characters people think deserve or are warranted or have a chance to get into Smash. The gender percentages could be wildly different for pretty much anyone depending on which characters people think should get in, as well as the order on which characters should have more priority.

 

[Firox]

That's quite subjective on which characters people think deserve or are warranted or have a chance to get into Smash. The gender percentages could be wildly different for pretty much anyone depending on which characters people think should get in.

Very true. I was thinking of filtering the list to characters that are

A) Third Party
B) Main characters (protag or antagonist) from a given franchise, (not purely generic avatars like those of Fortnite, etc., though RPG characters seem to get a pass with Hero, Robin, etc.)
C) Come from reasonably known franchises, either Japanese or Western. (I know this one is pretty subjective in and of itself, but with about 30 years of hard core gaming under my belt across 15 different console systems, if I haven't even HEARD of it, it's probably too obscure. Again, subjective, but we need SOME level of reason here.)

I feel the first two are decent for whittling things down. (though, to take my own criteria, I guess that would disqualify Dixie Kong.) And FYI, the first two criteria were based on the only apparent patterns we've seen in the fighters pass so far.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

(though, to take my own criteria, I guess that would disqualify Dixie Kong.)

Precisely why I don't think there's a single list of criteria that can be used for every character. There are so many different situations for each and every character that I think its better to take it on a case by case basis. I think removing Dixie just because she is 1st Party is just silly because of how many other qualifications she has. There's also a matter of which character SHOULD be in vs which characters have a chance, for instance a lot of ATs would probably fit in the first category but not the second.

 

[MaddaD]

I'd be pretty disappointed with Dixie Kong as a FP slot, mainly because I would image she'd end up an echo fighter/clone of Diddy. Maybe as an extra addition, but not for me.

There's also a matter of which character SHOULD be in vs which characters have a chance, for instance a lot of ATs would probably fit in the first category but not the second.

The issue with that (among most "criteria" for Smash since 4) is that it's purely subjective to each person. One person could say that Ashley deserves a slot while another person says that Isaac or Starfy should be in.

There's not really a solid answer anymore. Just what Sakurai dictates.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'd be pretty disappointed with Dixie Kong as a FP slot, mainly because I would image she'd end up an echo fighter/clone of Diddy. Maybe as an extra addition, but not for me.

Well first off, there are many ways for them to differentiate Dixie from Diddy, and she would most likely be a Lucas/Wolf/Isabelle semiclone rather than a full echo fighter. Second, I was more referring to the DLC as a whole rather than specifically for FP5, of which I think she’s far more likely for post pass anyway. I’d recommend reading this if you want to know why she wouldn’t fit as a full echo.

The issue with that (among most "criteria" for Smash since 4) is that it's purely subjective to each person. One person could say that Ashley deserves a slot while another person says that Isaac or Starfy should be in.

There's not really a solid answer anymore. Just what Sakurai dictates.

That was precisely my point.

 

[StarBot]

I'm glad Smash is a Japanese product, so they don't have to worry about dumb made up "political" **** like "forced diversity"

Like seriously...

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I'm glad Smash is a Japanese product, so they don't have to worry about dumb made up "political" **** like "forced diversity"

Like seriously...

It is indeed real but ok

japan does thing westerners are too sinsitive though, thats a fact lol

 

[StarBot]

It is indeed real but ok

Watch as there some anime about cute girls doing cute girls comes out, and them was wearing hajab or black

Weebs will be eating them up and wouldn't care

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Watch as there some anime about cute girls doing cute girls comes out, and them was wearing hajab or black

Weebs will be eating them up and wouldn't care

there was a black character side character in Magical Doreimi named Beth who was friends with one of the main characters. Guess what, they didnt shove the fact she was black down viewers throats at ever moment she was talked about. Thats what we mean by forced but I guess it doesnt exsist to you so this topic is gonna go nowhere

 

[Firox]

there was a black character side character in Magical Doreimi named Beth who was friends with one of the main characters. Guess what, they didnt shove the fact she was black down viewers throats at ever moment she was talked about. Thats what we mean by forced but I guess it doesnt exsist to you so this topic is gonna go nowhere

I think my M&M's example was pretty decent at explaining the concept of forced inclusion. Here's another scenario to illustrate the difference:

-I make a movie based on modern day southern California. The characters are: 1 white guy, 1 black guy, 2 hispanic girls, and a gender fluid asian person. Totally makes sense for the time period and demographics.

-Then I make a movie based on 18th century Japan with the exact same character diversity. Yeah, that would be forced as all hell since Japan was (and frankly still is) a very racially homogeneous society combined with a heavily gender stereotypical culture, especially at that point in time. I suppose there could be a semi-valid narrative excuse for how such characters could be in that time and place, but again, the hoops you'd have to jump through only prove how forced it would be.

The key to natural diversity is to either make a narrative where gender/racial identity is of relatively low consequence to the over-arcing story or offer characters that reflect realistic demographics for the time and place.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm glad Smash is a Japanese product, so they don't have to worry about dumb made up "political" **** like "forced diversity"

Like seriously...

Well, it is real but I do believe that it is fair to say that it doesn't exist in Japan like it does here in the west whether it's America, Canada, all of Europe etc.. The thing is Japan hasn't really adopted this sort of political stigma of identity politics or movements like feminism or the SJW activist groups that have agenda driven intentions regardless if it's for better or for worse. I don't think native Japanese folk really give a rats ass tbh.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Here's the thing: in my experience, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, complaints about tokenism are really complaints that a given character isn't straight, white and/or male. The idea of tokenism assumes that minority characters have to justify themselves and majority characters don't. What counts as a "natural" way to put, say, a black character in a story? How is it different from the "unnatural" alternative? Would you ask the same of a white character? These kinds of questions can very easily take us someplace ugly and I think it's important to be cognizant of that.

That's exactly what I meant when I said this:

It's as if all characters ever created must default to a straight white male, and there must be some good reason for them to be female/not white/LGBT, or it's forced diversity.

And I also agree that 99 times out of 100, diversity is probably natural, and that "tokenism" is just an argument used by paranoid people who are actually racist/sexist/homophobic.

But forced diversity still exists. It happens here and there, and typically doesn't end well. It sure happens less in video games than in books/movies/etc. since players are given more control over their characters, but when authors are writing a story and trying to get as much appeal as possible, it's easy to see when a character simply doesn't fit in with the rest of the story since the author was trying to add one more color to their diversity rainbow.
Here are some examples:
Natural diversity: Six of Crows/Crooked Kingdom by Leigh Bardugo

Spoiler

Of the six main characters, two of the boys end up being in a homosexual relationship. I was all for it. It came naturally, it had a great buildup, the characters fit in perfectly with one another, and they had great chemistry.

Forced diversity: DC's Legends of Tomorrow (TV show)

Spoiler

One of the characters comes out as bisexual in the middle of the show, and between the first and second season there are several intrusive scenes where the character is either having lesbian sex or another character is talking about the former's sexuality. This is supposed to be a show about time traveling superheroes, but at times it felt more like an LGBTQ acceptance story (my opinion may be clouded since I watched the shows years ago, but my point still stands. The whole story arc felt artificial and inserted to add brownie points for diversity).

Maybe tokenism can be a problem in some media, but video games are different because they invite us to take ownership of the characters in a way that books and movies don't. In a multiplayer game with dozens of playable characters, especially one like Smash that obeys no real-world logic, there's no good reason not to diversify the roster a little. Give more people the chance to see themselves reflected in the characters.

I 100% agree with this.

 

[Deleted member]

Forced diversity: DC's Legends of Tomorrow (TV show)

Spoiler

One of the characters comes out as bisexual in the middle of the show, and between the first and second season there are several intrusive scenes where the character is either having lesbian sex or another character is talking about the former's sexuality. This is supposed to be a show about time traveling superheroes, but at times it felt more like an LGBTQ acceptance story (my opinion may be clouded since I watched the shows years ago, but my point still stands. The whole story arc felt artificial and inserted to add brownie points for diversity).

Not gonna lie, I didn't watch the entire show, but read about it, and to be honest, if they're gonna do something with that kind of diversity and not focus on the main plot at all, then don't do it. It's sacrificing the core plot of what made your show interesting in the first place.

 

[StarBot]

Forced diversity: DC's Legends of Tomorrow (TV show)

Not gonna lie, I didn't watch the entire show, but read about it, and to be honest, if they're gonna do something with that kind of diversity and not focus on the main plot at all, then don't do it. It's sacrificing the core plot of what made your show interesting in the first place.

Isn’t that show on the CW?

Ya know... the channel basically for teenage girls

No **** they are gonna have a bisexual character/ make a whole plot point around it, it’s common for borderline Soap Opera for women

SJW activist groups

Imagine comming to a pro-female thread, in 2020, still using that word

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine comming to a pro-female thread, in 2020, still using that word

Which word? SJW, activist or groups?

You quoted 3 mate.

 

[StarBot]

Which word? SJW, activist or groups?

You quoted 3 mate.

“SJW”

 

[Deleted member]

“SJW”

Well, first off, SJW is not a word. SJW is an acronym, and y'know what, I'm kind of in the same boat tbh. Albeit, I'm not a fan of using SJW as a form of terminology because I feel like SJW is just used for labeling tactics to dismiss the points of those whether they are an SJW or not an SJW. I don't normally say SJW a lot and I try to avoid saying SJW but saying SJW kind of helped give a broad idea of the kind of groups I used for an example to help sum up my point without going too deep into detail about what SJW groups do or how SJW's act. Technically, I'd be considered an SJW based on my viewpoints or political beleifs and I've been labeled and called an SJW many many times by folks on the right. I don't personally consider myself an SJW though, but if we look at SJW by its literal meaning, yeah, I'd probably be an SJW.

I didn't say anything bad about SJW's. I don't hate SJW's (well, not all. A lot SJW's are kind hearted people while some SJW's are just a pain in the ass to talk too) but I don't think I said anything disparaging to SJW's by mentioning the acronym SJW in my post. I'm not insulting SJW's or calling out any SJW's so I fail to understand why you brought up the fact I used SJW in the first place. Is my argument disqualified now because I said SJW in 2020? Please explain why mentioning SJW is so bad.

 

[Night Gale]

Forced diversity: DC's Legends of Tomorrow (TV show)

Spoiler

One of the characters comes out as bisexual in the middle of the show, and between the first and second season there are several intrusive scenes where the character is either having lesbian sex or another character is talking about the former's sexuality. This is supposed to be a show about time traveling superheroes, but at times it felt more like an LGBTQ acceptance story (my opinion may be clouded since I watched the shows years ago, but my point still stands. The whole story arc felt artificial and inserted to add brownie points for diversity).

Relationship drama is par for the course for CW; Sara just happened to be bisexual but they do it with straight couples as well. Btw Legends of Tomorrow is a spinoff; White Canary's bisexuality is pre-established Arrow lore that was relevant to its plot.

Furthermore, a large portion of the Arrowverse is LGBT irl; most of them play straight characters. Legend's cast alone starred Keiynan Lonsdale (Wally West), Victor Garber (Prof. Stein), Wentworthworth Miller (Captain Cold), Maisie Richardson-Sellers (Amaya Jiwe/Vixen), John Barrowman (Merlyn), and Russell Tovey (The Ray). The other hero shows on the network also have Andy Mientus (Pied Piper), Colton Haynes (Roy Harper), Violett Beane (Jessie Quick), Nicole Maines (Dreamer), and Ruby Rose (Batwoman).

It's basically like turning it on TBN and wondering why they're talking about Jesus during an action movie.

 

[osby]

Forced diversity: DC's Legends of Tomorrow (TV show)

Spoiler

One of the characters comes out as bisexual in the middle of the show, and between the first and second season there are several intrusive scenes where the character is either having lesbian sex or another character is talking about the former's sexuality. This is supposed to be a show about time traveling superheroes, but at times it felt more like an LGBTQ acceptance story (my opinion may be clouded since I watched the shows years ago, but my point still stands. The whole story arc felt artificial and inserted to add brownie points for diversity).

Spoiler: Off-topic

Wow, queer people actually have queer relationships and talk about being queer? The horror.

Sure, every season has a side plot about a straight couple's drama that ends up going nowhere (looking at you, Nate) but sure, diversity is forced. Definitely, nothing to do with the show comparing how different groups are treated at different times or more than a few queer people working at the show.

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone, please tone down the Arrowverse discussion for a bit because it's honestly starting to become off topic. Thank you =)

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Spoiler: Off-topic

Wow, queer people actually have queer relationships and talk about being queer? The horror.

Sure, every season has a side plot about a straight couple's drama that ends up going nowhere (looking at you, Nate) but sure, diversity is forced. Definitely, nothing to do with the show comparing how different groups are treated at different times or more than a few queer people working at the show.

Spoiler

Maybe I was wrong, like I said, I haven't seen the show in years, but I was advertised a show about time traveling superheroes working together to stop the evil "Time Masters," not whatever the hell I spent a month watching on Netflix instead. My recollection of the show is a bit fuzzy, but from what I remember the show had to jump through an unreasonable amount of hoops just to show you that yes, in fact, Sara is bisexual. It was as if every time Sara was kissing a different girl or having lesbian sex with someone, the writers were trying to say "Look! She's bisexual! Can you believe it!?" Since then I have never seen an author or director attempt to showcase their diversity harder than that, and maybe it's because I'm so used to reading books and watching shows/movies where diversity comes naturally and the work isn't occupied by intrusive and boring moments where they constantly remind you of how many colors of the diversity rainbow they have. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that the show took advantage of their diversity, in fact I'd argue that's a good thing. But that one story arc felt so artificial and flavorless that I have a hard time saying it's not forced. To be honest, the lack of actual content in Legends of Tomorrow was probably the reason I stopped watching the Arrowverse CW, since by the time Supergirl and Black Lightning reached me I was no longer interested. It didn't help that the latter two shows felt way less like superhero shows and more like soap operas. I miss the classic goodstuffs from Arrow and Flash. Those shows rocked....up until season 4.

TL;DR: The way I saw it, Legends of Tomorrow had to jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops to make Sara's sexuality relevant, which is not what would be expected from a superhero show, and to me that came off as forced.

Anyway, to get back on topic, I'm disappointed that we probably won't get a fighters ballot. In fact, I'm not 100% sure we'll have an organized fighers' pass to begin with. It's possible we'll get random challenger packs here and there as more characters are added instead of having a pre-planned set of newcomers. Remember, this is Nintendo, the kings of left field.

My guess is that if there isn't a new ballot, Sakurai will continue to pick characters from the list Nintendo provided him (considering Nintendo probably already secured legal deals with the companies that own the characters on their list; hence Banjo-Kazooie and Terry). Does this deconfirm first party characters? No. Does it mean third party females have a better chance? Probably. But this is just a wild theory, don't take my word for it.

I still think they'd be stupid not to add Lara Croft or Jill Valentine. That's would be a huge missed opportunity.

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

Maybe I was wrong, like I said, I haven't seen the show in years, but I was advertised a show about time traveling superheroes working together to stop the evil "Time Masters," not whatever the hell I spent a month watching on Netflix instead. My recollection of the show is a bit fuzzy, but from what I remember the show had to jump through an unreasonable amount of hoops just to show you that yes, in fact, Sara is bisexual. It was as if every time Sara was kissing a different girl or having lesbian sex with someone, the writers were trying to say "Look! She's bisexual! Can you believe it!?" Since then I have never seen an author or director attempt to showcase their diversity harder than that, and maybe it's because I'm so used to reading books and watching shows/movies where diversity comes naturally and the work isn't occupied by intrusive and boring moments where they constantly remind you of how many colors of the diversity rainbow they have. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that the show took advantage of their diversity, in fact I'd argue that's a good thing. But that one story arc felt so artificial and flavorless that I have a hard time saying it's not forced. To be honest, the lack of actual content in Legends of Tomorrow was probably the reason I stopped watching the Arrowverse CW, since by the time Supergirl and Black Lightning reached me I was no longer interested. It didn't help that the latter two shows felt way less like superhero shows and more like soap operas. I miss the classic goodstuffs from Arrow and Flash. Those shows rocked....up until season 4.

TL;DR: The way I saw it, Legends of Tomorrow had to jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops to make Sara's sexuality relevant, which is not what would be expected from a superhero show, and to me that came off as forced.

Anyway, to get back on topic, I'm disappointed that we probably won't get a fighters ballot. In fact, I'm not 100% sure we'll have an organized fighers' pass to begin with. It's possible we'll get random challenger packs here and there as more characters are added instead of having a pre-planned set of newcomers. Remember, this is Nintendo, the kings of left field.

My guess is that if there isn't a new ballot, Sakurai will continue to pick characters from the list Nintendo provided him (considering Nintendo probably already secured legal deals with the companies that own the characters on their list; hence Banjo-Kazooie and Terry). Does this deconfirm first party characters? No. Does it mean third party females have a better chance? Probably. But this is just a wild theory, don't take my word for it.

I still think they'd be stupid not to add Lara Croft or Jill Valentine. That's would be a huge missed opportunity.

Don’t be sure about a character chances in Smash.

 

[Neoxon]

I honestly don’t get the idea behind the argument of “forced diversity”.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly don’t get the idea behind the argument of “forced diversity”.

And I honestly don't get the idea behind the argument that anything that involves diversity is automatically good by association when there are risks of it being used for harmful agendas.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly don’t get the idea behind the argument of “forced diversity”.

Well, it's technically the use of diversity to try and appease some audiences, but in a way tbat kinda turns them off for some reason.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Well, it's technically the use of diversity to try and appease some audiences, but in a way tbat kinda turns them off for some reason.

I feel like a better way to enumerate it is that people see this as a notion of "quotas" that need to be filled, that would maybe take priority over characters that would have been otherwise considered. People are scared of a character being shoe-horned in simply to fill this "quota" that demands female representation.

Let's be honest though, it's somewhat of a bull **** argument though I do agree with it fundamentally. I just see no reason why a female rep doesn't come about without their inclusion being the result of some arbitruary demand that stems from a social message.

When we get our female character, it will be because they're badass as all hell, not because the game "needed" one.

 

[KatKit]

I don't get the idea of appealing to fear and mostly hypothesizing extreme instances of 'forced diversity' that simply aren't present. The 'let it happen naturally' stance is a bit odd to me because most instances of inclusion help normalize interactions that could use the exposure. Forreal... In this very topic, we have someone who complained about a minor bisexual subplot on show where the 1st season's main plot was about stopping a bad guy who's love was unrequited in an immortal love triangle, on a channel whose target audience are women ages 18-34. And if it were up to most of the old folks running things, there would probably be as little diversity as possible.

With regards to fighting games (which I think is more on topic), diversity is good because nobody wants a roster that looks and feels samey. I think I've said this before.

What happened? I came here to talk about cool women I'd like to see in my party fighting game and why. Y'all are taking this way too seriously.