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[Deleted member]

Real talk, Dr. Facilier is so good. His song is so good, he looks so good, his voice is so good


Princess and the Frog is so good

I predict a live action remake.
Also...

Spoiler

I really like the tone that they put Dr. Facilier's death. It was a little spooky. Also Clayton's death was pretty dark as well.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well I ain't @Opossum, but I do know my Disney, so I'll pitch in a bit here.

Yeah, there's definitely a trend of twist villains in modern Disney movies.

Thing is, this is more of a trend of predictable twist villains than just twist villains in general.

A lot of earlier Pixar films (which I'm considering to be Disney for the sake of this argument) have twist villains that actually work.

They are, for the most part, extremely well executed and make sense in the context of the movie.

Toy Story 2 - Villain has a twist
Monster Inc - Villain has a twist
The Incredibles - Villain has a twist
WALLE - Villain has a twist (in the sense that you wouldn't initially expect a villain in a movie like this)
Up - Villain has a twist (in the sense that you wouldn't initially expect a villain in a movie like this)
Toy Story 3 - Villain has a twist (although it's a bit more obvious here)

I'd also argue that Wreck it Ralph's has a decent twist villain considering who he ends up being revealed as.

However, from Frozen onwards, the twist villains either have little/no reasoning behind them or those motivations are revealed in the last act. They have no time to develop them as a villain b/c there's not much movie left to develop them properly.

The thing is people are getting tired of it to the point we know to expect one revealed. How about coming up with something new and original rather then regurgitating the same thing trope over and over again?

Back then they didn't do it as much but now its almost in every modern movie they've been making.

 

[Gyrom8]

I was writing stuff for my villain and when I come here, y'all are talking about villains. Nice. I'll just use this opportunity to ask:

What do you guys like in a villain? Do you have any favorite type of villain?

I like villains who are convinced what they're doing is right or have somewhat understandable aims but are willing to do awful things to achieve them

 

[ClaTheBae]

I predict a live action remake.
Also...

Spoiler

I really like the tone that they put Dr. Facilier's death. It was a little spooky. Also Clayton's death was pretty dark as well.

Do you know how ****ty a live action Princess and the Frog would be? Why make a movie live action if it's mostly gonna have to be CG frogs?

 

[Just a penguin]

I like villains who are convinced what they're doing is right or have somewhat understandable aims but are willing to do awful things to achieve them

Joseph Stalin would like to know your location.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Darth Vader was legit interesting because unlike most villians who only have their backstory explained in like 1 scene, Vader has multiple movies explaininghis transition to Vader. He was a pod-racing young bubbly boy, slowly becoming an easily manipulated teenager who is taken advantage of by Palpatine, eventually succumbing to the dark side as he later sees shady tatics used by the Jedi, as well as feeling tge need to use his Sith power to save his love one. And even at that, he's not 100% evil, as he had a change of heart near his demise, and finally got to see his son, as well as being ridden from the Dark Side.

Vader probably had one of the best villian arcs in all of cinema, it's a shame you don't see more like it.

Darth Vader in the prequels can be described as wasted potential.

Albeit, I love the Anakin in the Clone Wars cartoon. What a great show.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think the villain problem isn't going to be fixed by Disney anytime soon. Princess and the Frog is the closest to classic Disney villain we'll get. Mother Gothel in Tangled was very classic Disney villain as well.

But no one besides has been worthy of being alongside Ursula, Scar, Jafar, Maleficent, Gaston, etc. The old school rogues gallery for Disney. They're just on another level.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm writing a villain who's less of a character and more of an unstoppable force of evil.

 

[Just a penguin]

Oh, everyone. I think this may have been said, but I'm part of the group working on Undead Underdog.

 

[Deleted member]

Do you know how ****ty a live action Princess and the Frog would be? Why make a movie live action if it's mostly gonna have to be CG frogs?

It is Disney, they will probably make a remake of it.
Who knows?

I'm writing a villain who's less of a character and more of an unstoppable force of evil.

Now that sounds epic.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

I was writing stuff for my villain and when I come here, y'all are talking about villains. Nice. I'll just use this opportunity to ask:

What do you guys like in a villain? Do you have any favorite type of villain?

I tend like villains who you can actually feel sorry for, who are more or less just victims of circumstance. Porky comes to mind in this instance (although I'm trying to recall some other examples).

 

[Troykv]

Tangled was actually 2010. 2011 was Winnie the Pooh, which also didn't have a villain because I mean come on, it's Winnie the Pooh.

But yeah, the Twist Villain issue is definitely something people have taken notice of. King Candy had an interesting twist, like you said, not because of his alignment being the twist, but rather who he really was. Hans was the first to follow the formula they then set up, and had some decent shock value due to it, and made certain scenes read completely differently upon rewatch. Callaghan's reveal came off as a Scooby-Doo twist in all the worst ways, and Bellwether was, by that point, an incredibly predictable twist.

Honestly I think it was a huge reason why Moana didn't have a real villain.

I like King Candy as a villain because his twist is actually hinted in some scenes without outright telling you his actual identity.

Spoiler

Like the part where he's messing with the code.

 

[Zinith]

I'm writing a villain who's less of a character and more of an unstoppable force of evil.

Oh, I'm flattered that you think that of me

 

[TheMightyP]

I'm not sure if Muntz counts as a twist villian. Unlike other villians in that category, Muntz was already hinted to be a guy who became obsessed with keeping his fame (and by consequence, Kevin), and he pretty much was revealed to be the main villian like 5 minutes after he was introduced

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, about Wreck it Ralph 2.

Spoiler

Did it have a twist? The main villain ended up becoming a virus that just spread. Well, they did became Ralphs and caused by Ralphs. Is that a twist?

 

[Noipoi]

Oh, everyone. I think this may have been said, but I'm part of the group working on Undead Underdog.

Nice.

 

[Will]

I'm writing a villain who's less of a character and more of an unstoppable force of evil.

ganon already exists

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Speaking of Ursula.

If they don't cast a drag queen as her in the live action version. Disney has no balls.

NO BALLS, AMERICA.

 

[PsySmasher]

The thing is people are getting tired of it to the point we know to expect one revealed. How about coming up with something new and original rather then regurgitating the same thing trope over and over again?

Back then they didn't do it as much but now its almost in every modern movie they've been making.

Yeah. The problem has definitely worsened since Disney has oversaturated their recent movies w/ twist villains.

So now we may come to the point in the future where a good Disney twist villain may become underrated due to the fact that audiences will expect a twist villain instead of being genuinely surprised.

 

[Deleted member]

ganon already exists

You forgot a heroic force that can stop the unstoppable.

 

[ClaTheBae]

I was writing stuff for my villain and when I come here, y'all are talking about villains. Nice. I'll just use this opportunity to ask:

What do you guys like in a villain? Do you have any favorite type of villain?

The best kind of villains play off the hero/protag. It's the reason Dark Knight's Joker works so well. He wants to challenge batman's morals and they serve as opposites of each other, while still having a connection in the fact that they only exist due to each other. Joker is a nameless, backstory free individual who's only goal is to **** with Batman, and Batman is doing is best to not give in to him, and it brings up a lot of interesting points about the morality of killing.

Point is, write a good hero, and make sure the villain plays off of them. A lot of villains are cool but they miss out because they have no interesting connection. Hades from Hercules is a great example of a cool villain with no connection that makes him interesting enough to be considered great

 

[Noipoi]

Oh, I'm flattered that you think that of me

I mean, I dunno if you want to be linked with the thing who single handedly caused humanity's extinction, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Speaking of Ursula.

If they don't cast a drag queen as her in the live action version. Disney has no balls.

NO BALLS, AMERICA.

Seriously. Ginger Minj or Latrice Royale should be Ursula in the live action movie.

They're both perfect for it.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, Up had a twist too. Am I correct?
Edit: I do not think so. I do not know.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Another one they need to lay off is the damn pre-climax argument because oh noes they're going their separate ways!? Will they ever ma-Oh wait they are nevermind!".

 

[Zinith]

I mean, I dunno if you want to be linked with the thing who single handedly caused humanity's extinction, but whatever floats your boat.

Hehehe, you haven't been to the Bob-omb thread obviously

 

[Will]

You forgot a heroic force that can stop the unstoppable.
View attachment 190696

you mean goku?

 

[Gyrom8]

Joseph Stalin would like to know your location.

Tell him I'm not home

 

[Deleted member]

you mean goku?

Link can stop Ganon. That is the point.

Also I am thinking of Saitama vs Goku dang it.
Saitama vs Goku is confusing. Saitama can KO opponents in one punch, but Goku is literally a god.

 

[Just a penguin]

Tell him I'm not home

*We're not home

 

[Deleted member]

King Candy was an interesting villain because he had an understandable motive for doing what he did. His game was turned off, something we lean is a very real threat to in the film's universe since the beginning, and in the process of trying to find a new game to live in, he ruined someone else's life.
Also, the whole scene of him glitching between his current self and his original self in the climax is really freakish in a good way.

The Dinsey Villain Twist is a really overused (unnofficial) trope but I think it worked with Wreck-It Ralph as it didn't just come from nowhere and we knew there was something off with him from the start.

You just have a weird thing for bald old men TBH.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

The best kind of villains play off the hero/protag. It's the reason Dark Knight's Joker works so well. He wants to challenge batman's morals and they serve as opposites of each other, while still having a connection in the fact that they only exist due to each other. Joker is a nameless, backstory free individual who's only goal is to **** with Batman, and Batman is doing is best to not give in to him, and it brings up a lot of interesting points about the morality of killing.

Point is, write a good hero, and make sure the villain plays off of them. A lot of villains are cool but they miss out because they have no interesting connection. Hades from Hercules is a great example of a cool villain with no connection that makes him interesting enough to be considered great

"A hero is only as great as his greatest villain."

Hence why I think the whole "villain spin-off" films are such a dumb idea. Who wants to watch a Joker movie without Batman?

 

[Zinith]

Spoiler: More personal family stuff

My Aunt is in the hospital and she's not expected to live another 24 hours

 

[Swamp Sensei]

ing Candy was an interesting villain because he had an understandable motive for doing what he did. His game was turned off, something we lean is a very real threat to in the film's universe since the beginning

Yeah... but that was because of him.

It was turned off because he was too jealous to share the spotlight. His motive isn't sympathetic at all.

 

[TheMightyP]

Wait, Up had a twist too. Am I correct?

I'll repeat what I said before

I'm not sure if Muntz counts as a twist villian. Unlike other villians in that category, Muntz was already hinted to be a guy who became obsessed with keeping his fame (and by consequence, Kevin), and he pretty much was revealed to be the main villian like 5 minutes after he was introduced

Also, unlike other Pixar/Disney movies, there wasn't anyone else to be the villian it was Muntz all the way though, and Muntz was already portrayed to be somewhat obsessed with his fame since the beginning.

I guess if you want a twist, it would be that he's still alive somehow.

Edit: As in when he was introduced. He fell to his death near the end.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

That's not the era of movies he's talking about though. He's talking about the modern 3D era. Tangled and on basically.

ooh Oh oh oops My bad, carry one pff

 

[Deleted member]

EDIT: Wrong place, Wrong time. sorry about that.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Link can stop Ganon. That is the point.

Also I am thinking of Saitama vs Goku dang it.
Saitama vs Goku is confusing. Saitama can KO opponents in one punch, but Goku is literally a god.

Not to get too deep into scaling, but if you are just talking about feats, Goku has shaken the multiverse and was shown to be able to destroy at least one universe at the very beginning of super. Saitama has planet-level feats I believe, but nothing compared to what Goku can do.

Goku would prolly win, he clearly has more power. But the two series do have different rules so idk

 

[Deleted member]

King Candy was an interesting villain because he had an understandable motive for doing what he did. His game was turned off, something we lean is a very real threat to in the film's universe since the beginning, and in the process of trying to find a new game to live in, he ruined someone else's life.
Also, the whole scene of him glitching between his current self and his original self in the climax is really freakish in a good way.

The Dinsey Villain Twist is a really overused (unnofficial) trope but I think it worked with Wreck-It Ralph as it didn't just come from nowhere and we knew there was something off with him from the start.

Good point.

Also I heard the twist worked in Toy Story 3 and Incredibles.

 

[Will]

Also I am thinking of Saitama vs Goku dang it.
Saitama vs Goku is confusing. Saitama can KO opponents in one punch, but Goku is literally a god.

we discussed this like six months ago

One Punch Man is a deconstruction manga about the superhero tropes, notably being too powerful. Of course, Saitama is too powerful even in his own verse, but does that means he's a nigh-unstoppable invincible character? **** no. The strongest we've seen One Punch Man (as a verse) reach was on a planetary level via ONE's statements about Saitama. It doesn't mean it's where his limit ends, just that he could do it. Definitely possible that he's stronger, but since we don't know how strong, he's just sitting at an at least type of level that destroys planets, along with Boros, Garou, and probably the newer antagonist God.

The farthest I can see Saitama go is the Saiyan and Namek saga before Frieza casually walks in and says "hello have you heard about our lord and savior uhhhh me" before whacking him to death.

Even weaker people in power can defeat Saitama by differing powers just because they ignore your own conventional durability. An example I hold to heart with this is Tusk, using its infinite energy to completely obliterate you and your soul from the inside-out. Or at least that's the tl;dr. But in power, the thing can barely bust a building.

Of course, people like Goku aren't invincible either, but saying Saitama destroys all of DBZ or just anyone in general because he was made to be strong is classified as a No-Limits Fallacy, which is like how ScrewAttack said Superman had no limit to power or how Ganondorf can't be killed with anything but the Master Sword. Though they did do the Hulk's theoretical infinite strength growth well as showing how its an NLF, only due to physical limits of the body.