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[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Hades was the last memorable Disney villain (memorable for the right reason of course)

You didnt watch Princess and the Frog, did you?

 

[Zinith]

You didnt watch Princess and the Frog, did you?

I have actually

 

[Opossum]

Uggh what a bland villain. You knew he was evil, and he was never interesting. You see him do all of these sketchy things, and it was no shocker. He was not a nice character or even a very evil character. Boring villain in my opinion. Wreck it Ralph was good overall though.

King Candy is a good villain by way of being entertaining and symbolic of Ralph's shortcomings. In that regard he can't be called a poor villain.

Also do not argue with me here, Wreck it Ralph 2 is superior to the first Wreck it Ralph.

I don't see how. Ralph Breaks the Internet's a good film, IMO, but it's not nearly as good as the original.


Lol oops I messed up the quote tags.

 

[Deleted member]

King Candy is a good villain by way of being entertaining and symbolic of Ralph's shortcomings. In that regard he can't be called a poor villain.

True, true.

I don't see how. Ralph Breaks the Internet's a good film, IMO, but it's not nearly as good as the original.

I do not know. It just was slightly better overall, even though I liked the original.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Real talk, Dr. Facilier is so good. His song is so good, he looks so good, his voice is so good


Princess and the Frog is so good

 

[Deleted member]

King Candy is a good villain by way of being entertaining and symbolic of Ralph's shortcomings. In that regard he can't be called a poor villain.


I don't see how. Ralph Breaks the Internet's a good film, IMO, but it's not nearly as good as the original.


Lol oops I messed up the quote tags.

At the end it just kinda felt like “Wow.... That was it?” Not bad, just... Meh?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

King Candy is a good villain by way of being entertaining and symbolic of Ralph's shortcomings. In that regard he can't be called a poor villain.


I don't see how. Ralph Breaks the Internet's a good film, IMO, but it's not nearly as good as the original.


Lol oops I messed up the quote tags.

A lot of the scenes where just really cringey, and

Spoiler: Ralph Breaks The Internet Ending

Ralphs weird insecurity invasion was just really weird, left me uninterested, and was incredibly stretched out. It wasn't what I was expecting, but still kinda boring.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You know...

I think Disney's kinda making a potential misstep with their villains lately.

With the more modern villains, Disney's really trying to subvert expectations, whether making the villain someone you weren't expecting or straight up not having one. It's gotten to the point where we have the new phrase, "The Disney Villain Twist."

Ironically, I think this has started to make them a bit predictable.

Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

2012 - Wreck it Ralph - Villain has a twist
2013 - Frozen - Villain has a twist
2014 - Big Hero 6 - Villain has a twist
2016 - Zootopia - Villain has a twist
2016 - Moana - No Villain, that was the twist (minor villain exists but isn't plot important)
2018 - Ralph Breaks the Internet - Admittedly have not seen yet but I was told there's a twist


There is a definite trend. The last time we have a Disney villain that was the classic antagonistic force was 2011 with Tangled's Mother Gothel.

Where's the problem? Twists make weaker villains if they aren't given enough time to work in the plot.

It's why I think the only villain that was really memorable from these last few movies was King Candy. Unlike the others where the twist is near the end, we're shown that he's antagonistic halfway through the movie. We're able to see him act like the classic Disney villain for a while. We start to like him as a villain.

Now don't get me wrong, those movies are pretty great, but I haven't been really impressed with a Disney villain in a while. Curious what fellow Disney connoisseur Opossum thinks on this.

 

[Noipoi]

Friends on the Other Side is one of the best villain songs period.

Ralph breaks the Internet is good, but the first one is far superior.

 

[Opossum]

cringey

You should probably further elaborate instead of resorting to buzzwords.

 

[Wademan94]

Uggh what a bland villain. You knew he was evil, and he was never interesting. You see him do all of these sketchy things, and it was no shocker. He was not a nice character or even a very evil character. Boring villain in my opinion. Wreck it Ralph was good overall though.

Also do not argue with me here, Wreck it Ralph 2 is superior to the first Wreck it Ralph.

Still a better twist villain than most of the ones Disney has put out in recent years, in that the twist wasn’t “he was evil all along”. And you can’t hate Alan Tudyk.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

You should probably further elaborate instead of resorting to buzzwords.

What the heck is a buzzword
Some of the scenes were just dead memes, and all these other things that just really didn't come off as funny, and just felt like Disney trying to be hip.

 

[Noipoi]

I miss villains who were straight up evil and barely hid it. They were so much more fun.

Now everything's gotta be a twist.

 

[SneakyLink]

Did I miss anything?

 

[Will]

You know...

I think Disney's kinda making a potential misstep with their villains lately.

With the more modern villains, Disney's really trying to subvert expectations, whether making the villain someone you weren't expecting or straight up not having one. It's gotten to the point where we have the new phrase, "The Disney Villain Twist."

Ironically, I think this has started to make them a bit predictable.

Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

2012 - Wreck it Ralph - Villain has a twist
2013 - Frozen - Villain has a twist
2014 - Big Hero 6 - Villain has a twist
2016 - Zootopia - Villain has a twist
2016 - Moana - No Villain, that was the twist (minor villain exists but isn't plot important)
2018 - Ralph Breaks the Internet - Admittedly have not seen yet but I was told there's a twist


There is a definite trend. The last time we have a Disney villain that was the classic antagonistic force was 2011 with Tangled's Mother Gothel.

Where's the problem? Twists make weaker villains if they aren't given enough time to work in the plot.

It's why I think the only villain that was really memorable from these last few movies was King Candy. Unlike the others where the twist is near the end, we're shown that he's antagonistic halfway through the movie. We're able to see him act like the classic Disney villain for a while. We start to like him as a villain.

Now don't get me wrong, those movies are pretty great, but I haven't been really impressed with a Disney villain in a while. Curious what fellow Disney connoisseur Opossum thinks on this.

Stolen from Schrafillas tbh

 

[Gyrom8]

I miss villains who were straight up evil and barely hid it. They were so much more fun.

Now everything's gotta be a twist.

Frollo and Yzma will always be my favourites

 

[Deleted member]

I miss villains who were straight up evil and barely hid it. They were so much more fun.

Now everything's gotta be a twist.

I agree with you!
That is a slight reason why I like FullMetal Alchemist Brotherhood and One Punch Man, the villains were straight up evil and did not hid it.
The best villains are usually the villains that are straight up evil and do not hide it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Stolen from Schrafillas tbh

Huh. I don't think I've ever watched this.

Will watch later.

 

[Opossum]

You know...

I think Disney's kinda making a potential misstep with their villains lately.

With the more modern villains, Disney's really trying to subvert expectations, whether making the villain someone you weren't expecting or straight up not having one. It's gotten to the point where we have the new phrase, "The Disney Villain Twist."

Ironically, I think this has started to make them a bit predictable.

Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

2012 - Wreck it Ralph - Villain has a twist
2013 - Frozen - Villain has a twist
2014 - Big Hero 6 - Villain has a twist
2016 - Zootopia - Villain has a twist
2016 - Moana - No Villain, that was the twist (minor villain exists but isn't plot important)
2018 - Ralph Breaks the Internet - Admittedly have not seen yet but I was told there's a twist


There is a definite trend. The last time we have a Disney villain that was the classic antagonistic force was 2011 with Tangled's Mother Gothel.

Where's the problem? Twists make weaker villains if they aren't given enough time to work in the plot.

It's why I think the only villain that was really memorable from these last few movies was King Candy. Unlike the others where the twist is near the end, we're shown that he's antagonistic halfway through the movie. We're able to see him act like the classic Disney villain for a while. We start to like him as a villain.

Now don't get me wrong, those movies are pretty great, but I haven't been really impressed with a Disney villain in a while. Curious what fellow Disney connoisseur Opossum thinks on this.

Tangled was actually 2010. 2011 was Winnie the Pooh, which also didn't have a villain because I mean come on, it's Winnie the Pooh.

But yeah, the Twist Villain issue is definitely something people have taken notice of. King Candy had an interesting twist, like you said, not because of his alignment being the twist, but rather who he really was. Hans was the first to follow the formula they then set up, and had some decent shock value due to it, and made certain scenes read completely differently upon rewatch. Callaghan's reveal came off as a Scooby-Doo twist in all the worst ways, and Bellwether was, by that point, an incredibly predictable twist.

Honestly I think it was a huge reason why Moana didn't have a real villain.

 

[ClaTheBae]

You know...

I think Disney's kinda making a potential misstep with their villains lately.

With the more modern villains, Disney's really trying to subvert expectations, whether making the villain someone you weren't expecting or straight up not having one. It's gotten to the point where we have the new phrase, "The Disney Villain Twist."

Ironically, I think this has started to make them a bit predictable.

Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

2012 - Wreck it Ralph - Villain has a twist
2013 - Frozen - Villain has a twist
2014 - Big Hero 6 - Villain has a twist
2016 - Zootopia - Villain has a twist
2016 - Moana - No Villain, that was the twist (minor villain exists but isn't plot important)
2018 - Ralph Breaks the Internet - Admittedly have not seen yet but I was told there's a twist


There is a definite trend. The last time we have a Disney villain that was the classic antagonistic force was 2011 with Tangled's Mother Gothel.

Where's the problem? Twists make weaker villains if they aren't given enough time to work in the plot.

It's why I think the only villain that was really memorable from these last few movies was King Candy. Unlike the others where the twist is near the end, we're shown that he's antagonistic halfway through the movie. We're able to see him act like the classic Disney villain for a while. We start to like him as a villain.

Now don't get me wrong, those movies are pretty great, but I haven't been really impressed with a Disney villain in a while. Curious what fellow Disney connoisseur Opossum thinks on this.

There was actually a video I watched recently about Disney's twist villains don't work. (edit: ****ing hell man 'd)

But, in general, twist villains only work if there are subtle and believable hints to it, and the twist doesn't completely betray their character. Random twist villain for no reason is to character building what jumpscares are to horror. It's lazy, and most of the time you can see it coming pretty easily.

 

[Zinith]

Frollo and Yzma will always be my favourites

Oh ****, I left out Yzma for some reason!!! She's most definitely memorable, but I guess I don't associate her with actually being a threat because Kronk is there

 

[Deleted member]

A movie about a personification of the internet could definitely work. But I think the best chance of it working is if its rated PG-13 or R. Why? Because that's the internet for you, not really a kid friendly place if we're being honest. Even on sites like this one. Doesn't have to be a dumb crude humor movie, quite the opposite. I just think it leaves a lot more room to have honest commentary about it.

so you're saying she can never get frozen by sub-zero

Maybe. But regardless she's not a chinese ninja warrior with a heart so cold.(Well, maybe literally on that last part.)

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

You know...

I think Disney's kinda making a potential misstep with their villains lately.

With the more modern villains, Disney's really trying to subvert expectations, whether making the villain someone you weren't expecting or straight up not having one. It's gotten to the point where we have the new phrase, "The Disney Villain Twist."

Ironically, I think this has started to make them a bit predictable.

Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

2012 - Wreck it Ralph - Villain has a twist
2013 - Frozen - Villain has a twist
2014 - Big Hero 6 - Villain has a twist
2016 - Zootopia - Villain has a twist
2016 - Moana - No Villain, that was the twist (minor villain exists but isn't plot important)
2018 - Ralph Breaks the Internet - Admittedly have not seen yet but I was told there's a twist


There is a definite trend. The last time we have a Disney villain that was the classic antagonistic force was 2011 with Tangled's Mother Gothel.

Where's the problem? Twists make weaker villains if they aren't given enough time to work in the plot.

It's why I think the only villain that was really memorable from these last few movies was King Candy. Unlike the others where the twist is near the end, we're shown that he's antagonistic halfway through the movie. We're able to see him act like the classic Disney villain for a while. We start to like him as a villain.

Now don't get me wrong, those movies are pretty great, but I haven't been really impressed with a Disney villain in a while. Curious what fellow Disney connoisseur Opossum thinks on this.

Correct me if Im wrong, Dr. Facilier wasnt a twist, he was ****ing bad from the get go

 

[TheMightyP]

What was the last Disney/Pixar movie to not have a twist villian? I know Up and Toy Story 3 didn't have one, as well as Princess and the Frog but that's like 8-10 years ago.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah, speaking of Noipoi 's point...

Villains like Darth Vader, Thanos and the Joker from the Dark Knight Trilogy and any other villains that you all consider great that I have not mentioned work really well, because instead of being a twist, you get to see the villain's plan and their development.

The Joker from the Dark Knight trilogy was probably one of the best villains in my opinion. A ton of character.

Noipoi does have a point about twists being bland.

 

[Wademan94]

I miss villains who were straight up evil and barely hid it. They were so much more fun.

Now everything's gotta be a twist.

Spoiler

Or maybe a we could see a character make the journey and descent into a villain. Something less like what Maleficent did and more like Dr. Octavius from Spider-Man PS4

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Stolen from Schrafillas tbh

I'm ten minutes in and this is literally my post.

Like.... this is kind of uncanny.

 

[Zinith]

Anyone remember Rourke from Atlantis: The Lost Empire? He's an example of a twist villain whose motives didn't change, just that it misaligned with Milo's in the 3rd Act...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

One of the reasons I'm losing interest in Disney and Pixar films because all they're doing nowadays is just keep recycling the same formulas over and over again rather then try to do anything original and new or have villains be villains from the get go.

It's basically the next M. Night Shyamalan.

The moment I saw Ernesto in Coco I figured somehow Hector would be Miguel's actual grandfather and the former being a villain. I look forward to the inevitable twist villain in the unnecessary and unneeded Toy Story 4 because god forbid can't let an ending be an ending.

I'm gonna at this point moving onto Ghibi films and Laika (Which will be releasing a movie this year I look forward to called Missing Link).

 

[Deleted member]

What was the last Disney/Pixar movie to not have a twist villian? I know Up and Toy Story 3 didn't have one, as well as Princess and the Frog but that's like 8-10 years ago.

Toy Story 3 had a twist. Lotso was portrayed as good, but it was pretty obvious that they were a villain.

 

[Deleted member]

Correct me if Im wrong, Dr. Facilier wasnt a twist, he was ****ing bad from the get go

That's not the era of movies he's talking about though. He's talking about the modern 3D era. Tangled and on basically.

What was the last Disney/Pixar movie to not have a twist villian? I know Up and Toy Story 3 didn't have one, as well as Princess and the Frog but that's like 8-10 years ago.

Ralphs Breaks the Internet didn't really have one really. The last Pixar film not to have one was finding Dory.

Oh yeah, speaking of Noipoi 's point...

Villains like Darth Vader, Thanos and the Joker from the Dark Knight Trilogy and any other villains that you all consider great that I have not mentioned work really well, because instead of being a twist, you get to see the villain's plan and their development.

The Joker from the Dark Knight trilogy was probably one of the best villains in my opinion. A ton of character.

Noipoi does have a point about twists being bland.

What makes Darth Vader and the Joker work so well is how they play off the protagonists. In Thanos's case he is the protagonist of that movie, even though he's the villain.

I'm ten minutes in and this is literally my post.

Like.... this is kind of uncanny.

A TON of people including myself share the exact thoughts of your post including myself. It's just a very common opinion on those movies.

 

[TheMightyP]

I think Darth Vader was legit interesting because unlike most villians who only have their backstory explained in like 1 scene, Vader has multiple movies explaininghis transition to Vader. He was a pod-racing young bubbly boy, slowly becoming an easily manipulated teenager who is taken advantage of by Palpatine, eventually succumbing to the dark side as he later sees shady tatics used by the Jedi, as well as feeling tge need to use his Sith power to save his love one. And even at that, he's not 100% evil, as he had a change of heart near his demise, and finally got to see his son, as well as being ridden from the Dark Side.

Vader probably had one of the best villian arcs in all of cinema, it's a shame you don't see more like it.

 

[Masked Marshmallow]

I was writing stuff for my villain and when I come here, y'all are talking about villains. Nice. I'll just use this opportunity to ask:

What do you guys like in a villain? Do you have any favorite type of villain?

 

[ClaTheBae]

Spoiler

Or maybe a we could see a character make the journey and descent into a villain. Something less like what Maleficent did and more like Dr. Octavius from Spider-Man PS4

I hate how they handled Doc Oc in that game. Like his arc is fine but I'm sick of needing an origin story for EVERY new superhero universe.
Spiderman PS4 and the Batman Arkham games did this pretty well for the most part, like they assumed we knew about the Joker, Riddler, etc so it didn't shove exposition down our throats, but Spidey Ps4 game still felt the need to drag out Doc Oc as if we don't know that he's gonna be a villain

 

[Deleted member]

King Candy was an interesting villain because he had an understandable motive for doing what he did. His game was turned off, something we lean is a very real threat to in the film's universe since the beginning, and in the process of trying to find a new game to live in, he ruined someone else's life.
Also, the whole scene of him glitching between his current self and his original self in the climax is really freakish in a good way.

The Dinsey Villain Twist is a really overused (unnofficial) trope but I think it worked with Wreck-It Ralph as it didn't just come from nowhere and we knew there was something off with him from the start.

 

[PsySmasher]

You know...

I think Disney's kinda making a potential misstep with their villains lately.

With the more modern villains, Disney's really trying to subvert expectations, whether making the villain someone you weren't expecting or straight up not having one. It's gotten to the point where we have the new phrase, "The Disney Villain Twist."

Ironically, I think this has started to make them a bit predictable.

Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

2012 - Wreck it Ralph - Villain has a twist
2013 - Frozen - Villain has a twist
2014 - Big Hero 6 - Villain has a twist
2016 - Zootopia - Villain has a twist
2016 - Moana - No Villain, that was the twist (minor villain exists but isn't plot important)
2018 - Ralph Breaks the Internet - Admittedly have not seen yet but I was told there's a twist


There is a definite trend. The last time we have a Disney villain that was the classic antagonistic force was 2011 with Tangled's Mother Gothel.

Where's the problem? Twists make weaker villains if they aren't given enough time to work in the plot.

It's why I think the only villain that was really memorable from these last few movies was King Candy. Unlike the others where the twist is near the end, we're shown that he's antagonistic halfway through the movie. We're able to see him act like the classic Disney villain for a while. We start to like him as a villain.

Now don't get me wrong, those movies are pretty great, but I haven't been really impressed with a Disney villain in a while. Curious what fellow Disney connoisseur Opossum thinks on this.

Well I ain't Opossum , but I do know my Disney, so I'll pitch in a bit here.

Yeah, there's definitely a trend of twist villains in modern Disney movies.

Thing is, this is more of a trend of predictable twist villains than just twist villains in general.

A lot of earlier Pixar films (which I'm considering to be Disney for the sake of this argument) have twist villains that actually work.

They are, for the most part, extremely well executed and make sense in the context of the movie.

Toy Story 2 - Villain has a twist
Monster Inc - Villain has a twist
The Incredibles - Villain has a twist
WALLE - Villain has a twist (in the sense that you wouldn't initially expect a villain in a movie like this)
Up - Villain has a twist (in the sense that you wouldn't initially expect a villain in a movie like this)
Toy Story 3 - Villain has a twist (although it's a bit more obvious here)

I'd also argue that Wreck it Ralph's has a decent twist villain considering who he ends up being revealed as.

However, from Frozen onwards, the twist villains either have little/no reasoning behind them or those motivations are revealed in the last act. They have no time to develop them as a villain b/c there's not much movie left to develop them properly.

 

[Will]

I'm ten minutes in and this is literally my post.

Like.... this is kind of uncanny.

Tellin you man, you a time thief.

 

[ClaTheBae]

What was the last Disney/Pixar movie to not have a twist villian? I know Up and Toy Story 3 didn't have one, as well as Princess and the Frog but that's like 8-10 years ago.

Up kinda had one, the dog dude wasn't immediately portrayed as evil

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah Villains who are clearly Evil are the most fun Kind of Villains look at Darth Vader for Example even though there isn't a twist with him (Besides the Luke's father thing) he's still Iconic cause he's threatening and interesting. Villains who're blantantly Villains bring more stakes to movies which make them more fun to watch.

 

[Alternis]

Anyone remember Rourke from Atlantis: The Lost Empire? He's an example of a twist villain whose motives didn't change, just that it misaligned with Milo's in the 3rd Act...

I'm sure most forgot, because everyone seems to forget about this movie.

I really like it, btw.