Social Ultimate Social Thread: Under Construction. Be Back Soon!

[Tots Woz]

Quick reminder that he got in 4th place in a recent unofficial ballot put together by the community

Our Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Unofficial Fighter's Ballot: DLC Edition has finally concluded! Here are the results: pic.twitter.com/IeV8UCO4tz

— Toad’s Nintendo News (@MailToadINTEL) May 6, 2019

Never thought I'd see the day, but Steve's actually being taken seriously as a potential Smash pick and it makes me very happy...

> The only Capcom rep in the top 10 is Phoenix Wright
> Phoenix Wright above Rex

[ Phoenix Wright ~ Objection! 2001 INTENSIFIES ]

 

[MainJPW]

Oh, and since you asked in the post if any of us would be interested in seeing more screenshots of stuff like this, feel free to share! Contrary to how I may seem when talking about Sonic, I love the blue hedgehog. SA1 and 2 may have aged poorly, but I still love 'em gosh dangit, and I Iove learning new things about them. Especially SA1. That game is my jam.

Late, but I wanted to wait until I had access to my computer.

I'm "START!!"ing off with two textures found in the Sonic Adventure Autodemo prototype. Oldest files found in the game dating back to November 1997.

You're about to see early developmental stuff:

These were shown at the 2016 Sonic Adventure Music Experience.

1st Image:

(Unfortunately, the 3 images at the bottom are being blocked.)

Spoiler

• Saturn models. Interestingly, the Saturn models were used for Sky Chase in prototypes, ripped straight from Sonic Jam.

Spoiler

The interesting thing about these development images is what did end up in the final.

We can see Lost World:

Spoiler

Angel Island:

Spoiler

2nd Image:

Spoiler

Now the second image is really interesting. That is a high poly Dreamcast model which points to this being an early Dreamcast build, you can see the joints not being welded together like on his finalised model.


The area is unrecognizable but it's speculated to be the Tornado section of Windy Valley.

Interestingly enough this model has ended up being used in the final

Spoiler: Via the mission title cards.

I was actually the first to point this out with another Sonic Adventure researcher, Woofmute, when the pictures were first leaked.

The mesh and the textures all appear to be the exact same.

The texture used for the Speedup item "item_speed" uses the shoe mesh from this model:

You can see that the shape and the texture used are the same.

That same shoe texture was reused and edited for the dummy Sonic's found in Final Egg:

Another interesting thing about that early model is the pose on the mission title card.

There are five modes for Sonic's basic movement.

Spoiler

Slot 9 "walk":

(I loaded the animations with the game paused so I could get the right frame, doing so causes the joints to break)

Slot 0A/10 "jog":

Slot 0B/11 "run":

Slot 0C/12 "fast run":

Slot 0D/13 "top speed":

The early model is using 0B/11.

As you can see the forward lean is the same, and the position of his torso sway and legs, his tail sway and his thumb & finger mesh are the same as the final.

Just look at the hand, exact same positioning. The thumb and finger mesh look like they were barely changed at all.

This means his run animations have been the same since the builds that used the old model.

Now let's talk about this spring:

Sonic Adventure was built on the engine seen in the Sonic World section of Sonic Jam. This spring model happens to be the only Sonic Jam asset to be found on the Dreamcast disc. The textures it uses are also otherwise unused since other objects like the final spring models use a more detailed version instead.

In Original Windy Valley, the Springs in Act 1 and 3 are too big for certain areas and they end up clipping through the walls.

Spoiler

That's because this Stage was built when the game still used Jam Springs. If you place the Jam Spring in the level it fits the areas perfectly.

Spoiler

Let's talk about unused levels.

The Japanese level list in the discovered in the final includes three stages not in the game.

https://tcrf.net/Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)#Japanese_Level_List

Spoiler

Here's the cool part. There's this blank camera file in the Sonic Adventure AutoDemo that was discovered a couple of years ago:

CAM0B00S.BIN

This file shares the same date as the Cam file used for Practice/test stage which also happens to be blank.

Every Cam and Set file in the final uses decimal numbers for the stage number part in the file name, this file instead uses hexadecimal. If it's converted to decimal it reads like this: CAM1100S.BIN

STG11 is a skipped level ID in the final.

If we look at the order of the Japanese level list it matches the order of the levels in the internal ID order in 1ST_READ.BIN, which also includes the skipped level IDs.

Japanese level list on left, internal level list in 1st_read.bin on right.

That means that STG11 is Mushroom, STG13 is Jungle and STG14 is Desert.

That means the file we're looking at here:

is from a scrapped level.

Fascinating! It sounds like SA1 was almost pretty different from what we got, then. Hmm, it's a shame some of their earlier ideas didn't work out; the mechanics in those test rooms look extremely promising. Seems like deadlines and limitations are what always end up being Sonic's downfall.

True, I’m always just thinking about what Sonic Adventure could’ve been and how the future of the 3D games would turn out as a result. Things would’ve been radically different.

Better images of Practice.

Spoiler

I also really like the texture work in Beta Windy Valley. It has a lot more charm to me when compared to what we got in the end.

It was a pretty level.

[August 1998 Tokyo International Forum WV footage]

https://imgur.com/a/gX4DCDw


Not to mention the background texture for the level is the only thing left completely unchanged, but as a result, ends up matching more with the foreground of Beta Windy Valley as the tall brownish-red mountains in the texture can literally be seen sprinkled throughout the prototype version.

Sonic Team agrees that the stage was gorgeous, considering the fact that they stuck pictures of it in the final game as much as possible:

Spoiler

Big was literally slapped over some gameplay of Gamma btw:

https://tcrf.net/Proto:Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)/AutoDemo
https://tcrf.net/Proto:Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)/AutoDemo/Stage_Differences
https://sonic-research-wiki.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_Adventure_Autodemo

And Tokyo International Forum:

https://youtu.be/8LEoZs_s_oQ

KMDP
On my tidbits about SA1 where I talk about Twinkle Park:

Spoiler: Sonic Adventure tidbits

What’s interesting about Adventure is Tails and Knuckles were actually based on Sonic’s base at a certain point in development, we know this because they both have Spin Dash models and animations, they just go unused. (...even though there’s a whole other button that isn’t used for anything, that should’ve been where they placed Tail Swipe and punching)

We see in early prototype footage that Tails is running around in Sonic’s version of certain levels (Speed Highway, which still had him use the rocket that takes you to the second act) with no race mechanic, just running around freely as if he were Sonic:



as well as seeing him in a completely different version of Twinkle Park, which is a level he can’t even access in the final.



Yeah, that’s actually Twinkle Park. You can see the barrels and 3-globe street lamps with flags from the final version of the stage. Interestingly, there’s a texture used in TP for certain objects in the final game that shows an alternate angle of this same area, revealing a different roller coaster with yellow tracks (you can see the yellow tracks in the gif) and the different background texture which shows off a bunch stars as well as some giant yellow stars (and you can see one big yellow star in the top right corner in the gif).

Also, in the SET file (The level object files, they contain the object layouts for the characters:

SETLLSSC.BIN

Where LL is the level number, SS is the level segment (Act) number, and C is the character playing the level.)

Anyway, the SET file for TP Act 1 ( SET0300S ) in the AutoDemo prototype is a complete mismatch for the actual level geometry; the objects for the level actually reveal a large, circular stage with said objects being in places that you would expect for a platforming level and not any of the Twinkle Kart race tracks. Since the area in the gif and texture appears to be circular we actually think that the leftover SET file is for THAT version of the stage.

I should update this, I think it was Speepshighway or AdvancedPlayer that explained that the ring placements in the SET file matches up with the footage of the Tokyo International Forum version of Act 1.

So what you’re seeing here is 100% the old Act 1:

Spoiler

The objects load super far away from the geomatry and I was told that the objects exlusive to this version were no longer intact.

Another oddity is this big rotating thing in the middle of the bumper car ring at the beginning of the stage :

Spoiler

It has no collision, it's not an object, and obviously doesn't exist in the final. It doesn't even show up in the level editor either.

As for the texture in question?

Spoiler

courseter02:

Spoiler: And its variants

courseter15:

rocket12:

saku01:

These are also Twinkle Park textures. Uses the same image.

This texture is used on objects like the roller coaster carts and bowling launchpad:

I brought this up with Woofmute, then with another Retro member.

You can see the area in the Tokyo International Forum footage within the texture.

• The brick structure is present.
• You can see the big yellow star above the brick structure.
• Yellow roller coaster tracks are present.
• Same curved area.

And you can clearly see a different roller coaster on the right.

Bonus scrapped Bunny girl and bar:

Spoiler

 

[Arcanir]

I am absolutely aware it's the weakest point, but that doesn't mean it isn't valid despite its weakness. I see no reason that a western 3rd party is suddenly likely, considering the reputation Sakurai has for boosting the Japanese gaming industry, and adding a western 3rd party doesn't necessarily do that.

Yet Sakurai has not shown any aversion to western gaming or its characters. He's talked about multiple games from western developers such as Undertale, Minecraft, and Stardew Valley in his Famitsu column, he's talked about their influence on gaming as a whole such as namedropping the John Carmack of Doom fame for its influence on the FPS genre, and he's never said or shown any signs of being against the idea of adding one to Smash. Boosting the Japanese gaming industry doesn't mean that all western characters are off-limits, he can still cater to that endeavor while exploring the western characters he finds interesting.

With the second rebuttal, we're talking about an Assist Trophy compared to a playable character. Sure, the moveset and movements in general would need to be checked.

And the movements and attacks that do exists in the AT don't? Sakurai is a developer with great attention to detail and we know he cares about making sure both parties are on board with how the characters are represented. Even with an AT he would definitely be the type of man who would go to Yacht Club and ask them questions to make sure he's putting in their character the way they want him to be, that's not something I can see changing regardless of the differing situation.

I guess my biggest question for folks clamoring for a western 3rd party is, why now? Why would Sakurai suddenly pick a western 3rd party when he himself isn't a part of Nintendo, but contracted to create Smash? To me, it seems entirely to be a symptom of "X happens, it must be related to Smash", which is a common speculative part of the Smash fanbase.

Fans have been demanding western third party characters at least since Smash 4, I still remember those like Rayman being popular choices and there were people clamoring for examples like Sans, Dovahkiin, and especially Banjo during DLC and/or Ultimate's pre-release period. It's not something that has just popped up out of the blue, that demand has been there for quite some time.

As for Sakurai, to repeat he has looked into western gaming. He has played their games and recognized their influence, and that is something he's done with the third parties he's added in like Castlevania. It's not unlikely to believe that, out of the five potential characters he picked, he picked a western one that he felt was interesting, popular, and influential enough to join the Smash cast and duke it out with them all.

 

[Izanagi97]

Im impressed that he has gained traction, has he leaked anything beforehand? I just remember him being one of the few people backing the Grinch hoax and even making weird theories about Banjo replacing Incineroar.

Pretty sure he just discusses leaks

Speaking of the Google Theory, someone on the Banjo-Kazooie discussion thread posted this.

https://smashboards.com/threads/banjo-kazooie-project-dream.446558/page-441#post-23315917

I don't know about you guys, but I don't think this means much at all. If anything, that is.

It is pretty interesting, meaningful or not

At this point, I can't tell if people want Steve in because of memes, or because they actually want him in.

Whatever it is, his support has definitely grown over the past couple of months, though you still got a bit of naysayers.

Regardless, he definitely isn't an underground pick anymore, lol.

I'd say it's both (Minecraft is the 2nd best selling game of all time, after all) though I've only heard serious suggestions for the character when Vergeben talked about there being Minecraft representation. I'm still of the opinion that Minecraft is better represented through means other than a character (though he could get a Mii costume)

 

[Shroob]

Holy wall of giant posts, Batman

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I think a better question heading into E3 this year is...

How the **** is Microsoft gonna top last year?

THEY got to reveal Kingdom Hearts III first, even had **** like Ori 2, Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition and Gears 4, so much variety was there, and of course, Cyberpunk 2077. Put Sony and even most of Nintendo's press reveals to shame.

Nintendo only needed Smash to gain hype my guy...nothing more or less

My Joker was named Ash Ketchum.

you oof hard

I'll never get over how Ken got leaked and no one gave a crap.

Cause...a Ken

Late, but I wanted to wait until I had access to my computer.

I'm "START!!"ing off with two textures found in the Sonic Adventure Autodemo prototype. Oldest files found in the game dating back to November 1997.

You're about to see early developmental stuff:

These were shown at the 2016 Sonic Adventure Music Experience.

1st Image:

(Unfortunately, the 3 images at the bottom are being blocked.)

• Saturn models. Interestingly, the Saturn models were used for Sky Chase in prototypes, ripped straight from Sonic Jam.

Spoiler

The interesting thing about these development images is what did end up in the final.

We can see Lost World:

Angel Island:

2nd Image:

Now the second image is really interesting. That is a high poly Dreamcast model which points to this being an early Dreamcast build, you can see the joints not being welded together like on his finalised model.


The area is unrecognizable but it's speculated to be the Tornado section of Windy Valley.

Interestingly enough this model has ended up being used in the final

Spoiler: Via the mission title cards.

I was actually the first to point this out with another Sonic Adventure researcher, Woofmute, when the pictures were first leaked.

The mesh and the textures all appear to be the exact same.

The texture used for the Speedup item "item_speed" uses the shoe mesh from this model:

You can see that the shape and the texture used are the same.

That same shoe texture was reused and edited for the dummy Sonic's found in Final Egg:

Another interesting thing about that early model is the pose on the mission title card.

There are five modes for Sonic's basic movement.

Spoiler

Slot 9 "walk":

(I loaded the animations with the game paused so I could get the right frame, doing so causes the joints to break)

Slot 0A/10 "jog":

Slot 0B/11 "run":

Slot 0C/12 "fast run":

Slot 0D/13 "top speed":

The early model is using 0B/11.

As you can see the forward lean is the same, and the position of his torso sway and legs, his tail sway and his thumb & finger mesh are the same as the final.

Just look at the hand, exact same positioning. The thumb and finger mesh look like they were barely changed at all.

This means his run animations have been the same since the builds that used the old model.

Now let's talk about this spring:

Sonic Adventure was built on the engine seen in the Sonic World section of Sonic Jam. This spring model happens to be the only Sonic Jam asset to be found on the Dreamcast disc. The textures it uses are also otherwise unused since other objects like the final spring models use a more detailed version instead.

In Original Windy Valley, the Springs in Act 1 and 3 are too big for certain areas and they end up clipping through the walls.

That's because this Stage was built when the game still used Jam Springs. If you place the Jam Spring in the level it fits the areas perfectly.

Let's talk about unused levels.

The Japanese level list in the discovered in the final includes three stages not in the game.

https://tcrf.net/Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)#Japanese_Level_List

Here's the cool part. There's this blank camera file in the Sonic Adventure AutoDemo that was discovered a couple of years ago:

CAM0B00S.BIN

This file shares the same date as the Cam file used for Practice/test stage which also happens to be blank.

Every Cam and Set file in the final uses decimal numbers for the stage number part in the file name, this file instead uses hexadecimal. If it's converted to decimal it reads like this: CAM1100S.BIN

STG11 is a skipped level ID in the final.

If we look at the order of the Japanese level list it matches the order of the levels in the internal level list in 1ST_READ.BIN, which also includes the skipped level IDs.

Japanese level list on left, internal level list in 1st_read.bin on right.

That means that STG11 is Mushroom, STG13 is Jungle and STG14 is Desert.

That means the file we're looking at here:

is from a scrapped level.


True, I’m always just thinking about what Sonic Adventure could’ve been and how the future of the 3D games would turn out as a result. Things would’ve been radically different.

Better images of Practice.

Spoiler

It was a pretty level.

[August 1998 Tokyo International Forum WV footage]

https://imgur.com/a/gX4DCDw


Not to mention the background texture for the level is the only thing left completely unchanged, but as a result, ends up matching more with the foreground of Beta Windy Valley as the tall brownish-red mountains in the texture can literally be seen sprinkled throughout the prototype version.

Sonic Team agrees that the stage was gorgeous, considering the fact that they stuck pictures of it in the final game as much as possible:

Spoiler

Big was literally slapped over some gameplay of Gamma btw:

https://tcrf.net/Proto:Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)/AutoDemo
https://tcrf.net/Proto:Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)/AutoDemo/Stage_Differences
https://sonic-research-wiki.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_Adventure_Autodemo

And Tokyo International Forum:

https://youtu.be/8LEoZs_s_oQ

KMDP
On my tidbits about SA1 where I talk about Twinkle Park:

Spoiler: Sonic Adventure tidbits

What’s interesting about Adventure is Tails and Knuckles were actually based on Sonic’s base at a certain point in development, we know this because they both have Spin Dash models and animations, they just go unused. (...even though there’s a whole other button that isn’t used for anything, that should’ve been where they placed Tail Swipe and punching)

We see in early prototype footage that Tails is running around in Sonic’s version of certain levels (Speed Highway, which still had him use the rocket that takes you to the second act) with no race mechanic, just running around freely as if he were Sonic:



as well as seeing him in a completely different version of Twinkle Park, which is a level he can’t even access in the final.



Yeah, that’s actually Twinkle Park. You can see the barrels and 3-globe street lamps with flags from the final version of the stage. Interestingly, there’s a texture used in TP for certain objects in the final game that shows an alternate angle of this same area, revealing a different roller coaster with yellow tracks (you can see the yellow tracks in the gif) and the different background texture which shows off a bunch stars as well as some giant yellow stars (and you can see one big yellow star in the top right corner in the gif).

Also, in the SET file (The level object files, they contain the object layouts for the characters:

SETLLSSC.BIN

Where LL is the level number, SS is the level segment (Act) number, and C is the character playing the level.)

Anyway, the SET file for TP Act 1 ( SET0300S ) in the AutoDemo prototype is a complete mismatch for the actual level geometry; the objects for the level actually reveal a large, circular stage with said objects being in places that you would expect for a platforming level and not any of the Twinkle Kart race tracks. Since the area in the gif and texture appears to be circular we actually think that the leftover SET file is for THAT version of the stage.

I should update this, I think it was Speepshighway or AdvancedPlayer that explained that the ring placements in the SET file matches up with the footage of the Tokyo International Forum version of Act 1.

So what you’re seeing here is 100% the old Act 1:

The objects load super far away from the geomatry and I was told that the objects exlusive to this version were no longer intact.

Another oddity is this big rotating thing in the middle of the bumper car ring at the beginning of the stage :

It has no collision, it's not an object, and obviously doesn't exist in the final. It doesn't even show up in the level editor either.

As for the texture in question?

Spoiler

courseter02:

Spoiler: And its variants

courseter15:

rocket12:

saku01:

These are also Twinkle Park textures. Uses the same image.

This texture is used on objects like the roller coaster carts and bowling launchpad:

I brought this up with Woofmute, then with another Retro member.

You can see the area in the Tokyo International Forum footage within the texture.

• The brick structure is present.
• You can see the big yellow star above the brick structure.
• Yellow roller coaster tracks are present.
• Same curved area.

And you can clearly see a different roller coaster on the right.

Bonus scrapped Bunny girl and bar:

This a long *** post

 

[ClaTheBae]

Oooooh tell me tell me tell me!

I'm listening

ok here's the concept.

Lesbian couple consisting of butch girl named Sam and her soft small gf named Arisa. The catch of it is, Arisa is blind. She can't see anything. But she really tries her hardest and that's what matters.

I'm liking my premise but I can't quite get an idea of how story arcs will go that will be not only cute, but respectful to blind people

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

We all know Crash would be a better Sony Rep than Kratos.

Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Sorry not sorry.

 

[MainJPW]

This a long *** post

Is it really? Oof.

 

[CannonStreak]

ok here's the concept.

Lesbian couple consisting of butch girl named Sam and her soft small gf named Arisa. The catch of it is, Arisa is blind. She can't see anything. But she really tries her hardest and that's what matters.

I'm liking my premise but I can't quite get an idea of how story arcs will go that will be not only cute, but respectful to blind people

I like it. It's pretty good in my eyes, and a good idea for a story.

 

[Deleted member]

Artorias gets revealed at E3, how do you react?

"Neat."

I started to actually like the idea of him because this "leak" made me actually think about it, so...

 

[Shroob]

We all know Crash is a better Sony Rep than Kratos.

Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Sorry not sorry.

This.

Not a GoW fan when I'd rather have Dante as a 2nd HacknSlash rep.

 

[PsySmasher]

Vergeben said that Erdrick IS a DLC character 100%

So maybe this is legit as well

Keep in mind that he finally doubled down only a month ago.

This is after his credibility went down the toilet during the February Direct.

There are other leakers besides him claiming Erdrick anyway, so it's not like he's making him any more likely.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Is it really? Oof.

Definitely. There's a ton of images not in spoilers as well. My browser took quite a while to load. It's the same issue as posting too many imbeds(videos or otherwise) per post/page. I'd honestly suggest spoilering more of it.

 

[Noipoi]

ok here's the concept.

Lesbian couple consisting of butch girl named Sam and her soft small gf named Arisa. The catch of it is, Arisa is blind. She can't see anything. But she really tries her hardest and that's what matters.

I'm liking my premise but I can't quite get an idea of how story arcs will go that will be not only cute, but respectful to blind people

Work on that plot, lad.

WORK ON THAT PLOT.

We all know Crash would be a better Sony Rep than Kratos.

Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Sorry not sorry.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We all know Crash would be a better Sony Rep than Kratos.

Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Sorry not sorry.

Tis too bad Crash no longer is Sony. He now belongs to Activision.

Bow before your new Sony mascot Kratos.

 

[MainJPW]

Definitely. There's a ton of images not in spoilers as well. My browser took quite a while to load. It's the same issue as posting too many imbeds(videos or otherwise) per post/page. I'd honestly suggest spoilering more of it.

I'm already on it.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Work on that plot, lad.

WORK ON THAT PLOT.

make concept art for the characters and I might

 

[Wademan94]

ok here's the concept.

Lesbian couple consisting of butch girl named Sam and her soft small gf named Arisa. The catch of it is, Arisa is blind. She can't see anything. But she really tries her hardest and that's what matters.

I'm liking my premise but I can't quite get an idea of how story arcs will go that will be not only cute, but respectful to blind people

What other details can you share? I’m assuming this takes place in a contemporary setting, are they teens or adults? Cause both create vastly different scenarios for this story to play out.

 

[Tots Woz]

Keep in mind that he finally doubled down only a month ago.

This is after his credibility went down the toilet during the February Direct.

There are other leakers besides him claiming Erdrick anyway, so it's not like he's making him any more likely.

HOW LONG HAVE WE WAITED.

VERGEBEN DECIMATED.

POLARPANDA ASCENDED.

N A T E D R A K E　A C T I V A T E D .

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Late, but I wanted to wait until I had access to my computer.

I'm "START!!"ing off with two textures found in the Sonic Adventure Autodemo prototype. Oldest files found in the game dating back to November 1997.

You're about to see early developmental stuff:

These were shown at the 2016 Sonic Adventure Music Experience.

1st Image:

(Unfortunately, the 3 images at the bottom are being blocked.)

• Saturn models. Interestingly, the Saturn models were used for Sky Chase in prototypes, ripped straight from Sonic Jam.

Spoiler

The interesting thing about these development images is what did end up in the final.

We can see Lost World:

Angel Island:

2nd Image:

Now the second image is really interesting. That is a high poly Dreamcast model which points to this being an early Dreamcast build, you can see the joints not being welded together like on his finalised model.


The area is unrecognizable but it's speculated to be the Tornado section of Windy Valley.

Interestingly enough this model has ended up being used in the final

Spoiler: Via the mission title cards.

I was actually the first to point this out with another Sonic Adventure researcher, Woofmute, when the pictures were first leaked.

The mesh and the textures all appear to be the exact same.

The texture used for the Speedup item "item_speed" uses the shoe mesh from this model:

You can see that the shape and the texture used are the same.

That same shoe texture was reused and edited for the dummy Sonic's found in Final Egg:

Another interesting thing about that early model is the pose on the mission title card.

There are five modes for Sonic's basic movement.

Spoiler

Slot 9 "walk":

(I loaded the animations with the game paused so I could get the right frame, doing so causes the joints to break)

Slot 0A/10 "jog":

Slot 0B/11 "run":

Slot 0C/12 "fast run":

Slot 0D/13 "top speed":

The early model is using 0B/11.

As you can see the forward lean is the same, and the position of his torso sway and legs, his tail sway and his thumb & finger mesh are the same as the final.

Just look at the hand, exact same positioning. The thumb and finger mesh look like they were barely changed at all.

This means his run animations have been the same since the builds that used the old model.

Now let's talk about this spring:

Sonic Adventure was built on the engine seen in the Sonic World section of Sonic Jam. This spring model happens to be the only Sonic Jam asset to be found on the Dreamcast disc. The textures it uses are also otherwise unused since other objects like the final spring models use a more detailed version instead.

In Original Windy Valley, the Springs in Act 1 and 3 are too big for certain areas and they end up clipping through the walls.

That's because this Stage was built when the game still used Jam Springs. If you place the Jam Spring in the level it fits the areas perfectly.

Let's talk about unused levels.

The Japanese level list in the discovered in the final includes three stages not in the game.

https://tcrf.net/Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)#Japanese_Level_List

Here's the cool part. There's this blank camera file in the Sonic Adventure AutoDemo that was discovered a couple of years ago:

CAM0B00S.BIN

This file shares the same date as the Cam file used for Practice/test stage which also happens to be blank.

Every Cam and Set file in the final uses decimal numbers for the stage number part in the file name, this file instead uses hexadecimal. If it's converted to decimal it reads like this: CAM1100S.BIN

STG11 is a skipped level ID in the final.

If we look at the order of the Japanese level list it matches the order of the levels in the internal level list in 1ST_READ.BIN, which also includes the skipped level IDs.

Japanese level list on left, internal level list in 1st_read.bin on right.

That means that STG11 is Mushroom, STG13 is Jungle and STG14 is Desert.

That means the file we're looking at here:

is from a scrapped level.


True, I’m always just thinking about what Sonic Adventure could’ve been and how the future of the 3D games would turn out as a result. Things would’ve been radically different.

Better images of Practice.

Spoiler

It was a pretty level.

[August 1998 Tokyo International Forum WV footage]

https://imgur.com/a/gX4DCDw


Not to mention the background texture for the level is the only thing left completely unchanged, but as a result, ends up matching more with the foreground of Beta Windy Valley as the tall brownish-red mountains in the texture can literally be seen sprinkled throughout the prototype version.

Sonic Team agrees that the stage was gorgeous, considering the fact that they stuck pictures of it in the final game as much as possible:

Spoiler

Big was literally slapped over some gameplay of Gamma btw:

https://tcrf.net/Proto:Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)/AutoDemo
https://tcrf.net/Proto:Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)/AutoDemo/Stage_Differences
https://sonic-research-wiki.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_Adventure_Autodemo

And Tokyo International Forum:

https://youtu.be/8LEoZs_s_oQ

KMDP
On my tidbits about SA1 where I talk about Twinkle Park:

Spoiler: Sonic Adventure tidbits

What’s interesting about Adventure is Tails and Knuckles were actually based on Sonic’s base at a certain point in development, we know this because they both have Spin Dash models and animations, they just go unused. (...even though there’s a whole other button that isn’t used for anything, that should’ve been where they placed Tail Swipe and punching)

We see in early prototype footage that Tails is running around in Sonic’s version of certain levels (Speed Highway, which still had him use the rocket that takes you to the second act) with no race mechanic, just running around freely as if he were Sonic:



as well as seeing him in a completely different version of Twinkle Park, which is a level he can’t even access in the final.



Yeah, that’s actually Twinkle Park. You can see the barrels and 3-globe street lamps with flags from the final version of the stage. Interestingly, there’s a texture used in TP for certain objects in the final game that shows an alternate angle of this same area, revealing a different roller coaster with yellow tracks (you can see the yellow tracks in the gif) and the different background texture which shows off a bunch stars as well as some giant yellow stars (and you can see one big yellow star in the top right corner in the gif).

Also, in the SET file (The level object files, they contain the object layouts for the characters:

SETLLSSC.BIN

Where LL is the level number, SS is the level segment (Act) number, and C is the character playing the level.)

Anyway, the SET file for TP Act 1 ( SET0300S ) in the AutoDemo prototype is a complete mismatch for the actual level geometry; the objects for the level actually reveal a large, circular stage with said objects being in places that you would expect for a platforming level and not any of the Twinkle Kart race tracks. Since the area in the gif and texture appears to be circular we actually think that the leftover SET file is for THAT version of the stage.

I should update this, I think it was Speepshighway or AdvancedPlayer that explained that the ring placements in the SET file matches up with the footage of the Tokyo International Forum version of Act 1.

So what you’re seeing here is 100% the old Act 1:

The objects load super far away from the geomatry and I was told that the objects exlusive to this version were no longer intact.

Another oddity is this big rotating thing in the middle of the bumper car ring at the beginning of the stage :

It has no collision, it's not an object, and obviously doesn't exist in the final. It doesn't even show up in the level editor either.

As for the texture in question?

Spoiler

courseter02:

Spoiler: And its variants

courseter15:

rocket12:

saku01:

These are also Twinkle Park textures. Uses the same image.

This texture is used on objects like the roller coaster carts and bowling launchpad:





I brought this up with Woofmute, then with another Retro member.

You can see the area in the Tokyo International Forum footage within the texture.

• The brick structure is present.
• You can see the big yellow star above the brick structure.
• Yellow roller coaster tracks are present.
• Same curved area.

And you can clearly see a different roller coaster on the right.

Bonus scrapped Bunny girl and bar:

Wow that’s more than I ever wanted/needed to know about SA1, but I enjoyed the effort and the promotional artwork with Saturn models is real interesting.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Lesbian couple consisting of butch girl named Sam and her soft small gf named Arisa. The catch of it is, Arisa is blind. She can't see anything. But she really tries her hardest and that's what matters.

I'm liking my premise but I can't quite get an idea of how story arcs will go that will be not only cute, but respectful to blind people

Perhaps Arisa could have development around trying to do too much on her own.

People always treat her like she can't do anything due to her condition, so she is desperate to prove that she is capable. This gets her into trouble sometimes and by the end of the story, she gains the confidence to both do what she knows she can, but also to be secure in asking for help on things she knows she can't.

Her disability is a disability, not a quality that makes her useless.

Just an idea.

 

[Pyra]

you oof hard

Shut up he has to catch em all

 

[Deleted member]

-Goes on YouTube
-Sees Clickbait Gardevoir Thumbnail

 

[ClaTheBae]

What other details can you share? I’m assuming this takes place in a contemporary setting, are they teens or adults? Cause both create vastly different scenarios for this story to play out.

I think I'm comfortable with them being in their early twenties. They live in an apartment together and Sam works at a plant. I don't know how lighthearted I want it to be tho, I just thought of the concept the other day and I'm really feeling it

 

[Deleted member]

ok here's the concept.

Lesbian couple consisting of butch girl named Sam and her soft small gf named Arisa. The catch of it is, Arisa is blind. She can't see anything. But she really tries her hardest and that's what matters.

I'm liking my premise but I can't quite get an idea of how story arcs will go that will be not only cute, but respectful to blind people

Hmm, I like the idea of the show!

 

[Opossum]

Crash is a "Sony rep" the same way Mega Man is a Nintendo rep.

As in he's not.

 

[Shroob]

Crash is a "Sony rep" the same way Mega Man is a Nintendo rep.

As in he's not.

Whatchu talkin' 'bout

Everyone knows Megaman and Simon are 100% Nintendo reps

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think I'm comfortable with them being in their early twenties. They live in an apartment together and Sam works at a plant. I don't know how lighthearted I want it to be tho, I just thought of the concept the other day and I'm really feeling it

Well, what's the plot.

You gave a premise but you gotta think about what you want the two to be doing before you think about tone.

 

[Deleted member]

ok here's the concept.

Lesbian couple consisting of butch girl named Sam and her soft small gf named Arisa. The catch of it is, Arisa is blind. She can't see anything. But she really tries her hardest and that's what matters.

I'm liking my premise but I can't quite get an idea of how story arcs will go that will be not only cute, but respectful to blind people

Thought you were joking but I actually like this. Dunno much on how to deoict blind people in fiction but I see Toph from avatar being cited as a good example so I think that'd be a good reference point.
If you have more to share, I'm still listening.

 

[Deleted member]

Crash is a "Sony rep" the same way Mega Man is a Nintendo rep.

As in he's not.

Crash is an Activision representative.

 

[Graizen]

So I wanted to write about it because it looks like 3 Square Enix characters are the most likely to be chosen as DLC. Embarrass

We know that historically speaking Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger are the strongest candidates. With Dragon Quest being a Legend in Japan, and Chrono Trigger being one of the greatest games of all time.

But at the same time Kingdom Hearts is huge and being extremely popular recently.

So if we think that the chosen DLC is to be from a historically huge game, Sora would probably not be chosen. But if we think that Joker was chosen to represent Persona, then Sora would have a lot more chances.

Joker represents the times of today, he is famous nowadays and maybe this has helped him to be the representative. But if they had followed a more historical path to choose the character probably would not be Joker, instead we would have the first protagonist of Persona or the first protagonist of the series Shin Megami Tensei.

This makes me think that maybe a character like Sora would have an advantage over Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger following that line of thinking. But if they follow the fact that Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger are much larger than Kingdom Hearts historically speaking, then I imagine Sora would not have chances.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Tis too bad Crash no longer is Sony. He now belongs to Activision.

Bow before your new Sony mascot Kratos.

He still represents the console war era Sony, wherein they went directly against Nintendo.

No one can represent Sony better than the guy who went to Nintendo HQ to trash talk them for Playstation.

Also him being owned by Activision is a point in his favor since Sony doesn't want to share with anyone, especially Nintendo.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Well, what's the plot.

You gave a premise but you gotta think about what you want the two to be doing before you think about tone.

I don't think I want some overarching story. I think I just want some kind of casual romantic comedy thing where every episode is its own arc. I'll have to work on it but I'm legit thinking about going somewhere with this because I love the premise a lot

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So I wanted to write about it because it looks like 3 Square Enix characters are the most likely to be chosen as DLC. Embarrass

We know that historically speaking Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger are the strongest candidates. With Dragon Quest being a Legend in Japan, and Chrono Trigger being one of the greatest games of all time.

But at the same time Kingdom Hearts is huge and being extremely popular recently.

So if we think that the chosen DLC is to be from a historically huge game, Sora would probably not be chosen. But if we think that Joker was chosen to represent Persona, then Sora would have a lot more chances.

Joker represents the times of today, he is famous nowadays and maybe this has helped him to be the representative. But if they had followed a more historical path to choose the character probably would not be Joker, instead we would have the first protagonist of Persona or the first protagonist of the series Shin Megami Tensei.

This makes me think that maybe a character like Sora would have an advantage over Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger following that line of thinking. But if they follow the fact that Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger are much larger than Kingdom Hearts historically speaking, then I imagine Sora would not have chances.

Take a gander at this when you get the chance.

There's a lot more to it than you think.

 

[Wademan94]

I don't think I want some overarching story. I think I just want some kind of casual romantic comedy thing where every episode is its own arc. I'll have to work on it but I'm legit thinking about going somewhere with this because I love the premise a lot

So more of a slice of life kind of thing?

 

[Shroob]

Take a gander at this when you get the chance.

There's a lot more to it than you think.

Ya know, I've never read this post in fu----

>Gex

It's tail time

 

[Izanagi97]

Keep in mind that he finally doubled down only a month ago.

This is after his credibility went down the toilet during the February Direct.

There are other leakers besides him claiming Erdrick anyway, so it's not like he's making him any more likely.

What happened at the February Direct that caused his credibility to go down (well, besides his guess that an SE character would be the first DLC was wrong)

 

[Z25]

Toxicity absolutely matters. Some don't mind taking hits, but others aren't willing to deal with that bull****. Nor should they. They don't deserve it whether they're a troll or not. DuckMeat in this case could just as easily be a faker who used his "respective" status to fake stuff. They could just as easily be someone who was fooled by something somebody else showed them. They could've made a theory that didn't pan out. There's no way to tell. Remaining skeptical of the theory is fair.

They still posted it in the correct spot, a place with little to no toxic attitude. Besides that, not everybody is the same. Some real leakers are fine with going to bad places. Not all are. You're painting everyone under the same brush here, but that's not how people work. People are too different for that to be a remotely good point. Since PagaGeno's is easily willing to report on rumors, regardless of authenticity, it makes for a great place to go, since it also gets them a YouTube video up. Combined with the lack of toxic attitude(which does matter to some people, yes), and you have a winner. Not much other reason for DuckMeat to post there if it isn't for "a nicer place". The person, as noted, is a respected member of the community. Maybe he wants things to stay that way? By not going to toxic places? It makes a lot of sense in that regard.

And 'no real leaker sits back'? What is Verge now? He's a real leaker and definitely sits back for responses. He only leaks what he believes in, and despite being burned(as well as sent abusive replies by the community), he still does it. People are too different as is for any general way to look at it as the only possibility.

I can get this point of view, but for these factors to be in place the guy would actually want to leak info. It started because they live in a European country and got curious with the ads.

If your going that or of your way to leak something “anonymously” with your identify staying on the down low, then why not just pm Geno?


Geno is always open and obviously if they wanted to intentionally leak something then why not directly message him? That way you get your info out there weather your lying or not, you get YouTube coverage, and you have a good shot at going viral. If you were a leaker set on either lying or getting info out there you believe is real, the better play is to direct message someone. It would cover every situation you outlined.

But instead this was posted in a server just out of the blue.

I really think the origin of this was truly an accident and there was no intention for it to be a “leak”. It doesn’t fully add up imo.


As for verge, no he’s not a leaker.

He’s more of an insider. Which there is a difference. Leakers I would say are people who show up one and done and leak something, such as the guy that leaked the Ken photo for example or the castlevania music.

Insiders are constantly feeding info they Herat through the grapevine that can be real or fake. And that’s what verge does. And even know he does kinda sit back as he got tired of it. Not to mention he hasn’t really gotten anything he’s said smash or otherwise right since smash came out iirc. So taking hit after hit has bought down his credibility.

That’s just my personal take though.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

He still represents the console war era Sony, wherein they went directly against Nintendo.

No one can represent Sony better than the guy who went to Nintendo HQ to trash talk them for Playstation.

Also him being owned by Activision is a point in his favor since Sony doesn't want to share with anyone, especially Nintendo.

I really want to have a Mii costume for Crash that looks like how he does in the commercials