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Social Ultimate Social Thread: Under Construction. Be Back Soon!

What are you most excited about for E3?

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D

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Wademan94 said:
This conversation is starting to rub me the wrong way, I dunno how you guys can keep it up...
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There is nothing wrong with the conversation as of now, it is just a debate. No one is throwing mud at each other right now.
 
Wademan94

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Scoliosis Jones

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When it comes to the purpose of debate, or discussion, about certain controversial topics...I'll put it this way. As a teacher in New York State, there are specific certifications I have to have. One of those, and one that I take seriously, is the DASA certification, known as the Dignity for All Students Act.

This certification means that I am aware of, and capable of, acting on my duty to support the well-being of all students, regardless of their gender identity, race, or political beliefs.

Now, regardless of the fact that I am required by the state to shut down discrimination of any kind targeted at a student of any kind, I would be doing that anyway. It's in my nature.

Let's say a student says that mexicans shouldn't be allowed into the United States because, as Emperor Oompa Loompa might say "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists" (sorry, that's not political. Good people don't generalize in ways like that), and I have impressionable young minds in the room that could agree with that, I have a social responsibility to stand up to that. If I don't say anything, if I do nothing, then that effectively means I am allying myself with the beliefs of that misguided person.

On the flip side, if I have a student who says something to the racist, sexist, homophobic effect, as their teacher it is my responsibility to present a conflicting point of view: I cannot tell a student that they're a bad person, that they're a dirty, irredeemable racist/sexist/-phobe. If I am to make my classroom an inclusive space (or a thread) then that means I need to be inclusive and then let my debating skills show, not tell (there's a difference) that their beliefs are misguided.

Imagine if I told an impressionable teen who probably took their political beliefs from their parents (and thus they are normal) that they're the worst and should die in a fire (like some folks online do). That's going to make them feel bad. But then, as often times happens with random folks on the internet, they go back to where they got those thoughts, tell their parents or cohort, and then they come back even worse because now they think you're an asshole for calling them one.

Then there's also the fact that research shows "giving up and calling bigots names" makes the problem worse. If you want society to change for the better, the unfortunate reality is that people won't educate themselves. They need other people to show them the way.

You have to be the change you want to see in the world. If you want the world to be inclusive, you must be inclusive and open-minded.

Even if there is an “invalid” opinion, it needs to be proven, in debate, why it’s invalid. Shown and not just told. Ideally, people would not be the worst and not need to be convinced. But that’s not the world we live in.
 
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D

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King Sonnn DeDeDoo said:
I just feel like most arguments on public forums don't seek to convince their opponents, rather they are trying to win over the "audience" of the public forum. I feel its the reason why the debate hall is largely ignored, since there is rarely an audience watching those threads.

Maybe it's just the pessimist in me, but i feel most users would rather get praise from their peers and weaken the ethos of their opponent, than put in the effort to convert who they are arguing with. Which I understand, it takes a lot of goodwill and effort to argue for that sake.

Not saying I'm disagreeing with you, i just think most people are not as noble in their arguments as you are.
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I mean, that's kinda true but it's not a bad thing either.
I'm not saying this just to try to convince who I'm replying to, but to anyone else reading not take my opposition at face value. If someone reads a post that didn't get any opposition, they'll simply assume there was nothing wrong with it and that's a dangerous thing.
 
D

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I agree that the invalid side should never think, have and defend evil opinions, but I do not think they should be allowed to spam their bad opinions onto here, either.

If the invalid side is able to spread their opinions easily, then it will have a bad impact on the ones who are prone to influence.
 
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Cyndane said:
Which is why with a lack of structure things regress into debate gang a shouts at debate gang b and vice versa. I do not tolerate that kind of mentality here.
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i mean debate gang a is kind of objectively better

really gang b transgressed into our turf, our hood, and debated our men

tell me how that's fair, cyn
 
KingofPhantoms

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Scoliosis Jones said:
When it comes to the purpose of debate, or discussion, about certain controversial topics...I'll put it this way. As a teacher in New York State, there are specific certifications I have to have. One of those, and one that I take seriously, is the DASA certification, known as the Dignity for All Students Act.

This certification means that I am aware of, and capable of, acting on my duty to support the well-being of all students, regardless of their gender identity, race, or political beliefs.

Now, regardless of the fact that I am required by the state to shut down discrimination of any kind targeted at a student of any kind, I would be doing that anyway. It's in my nature.

Let's say a student says that mexicans shouldn't be allowed into the United States because, as Emperor Oompa Loompa might say "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists" (sorry, that's not political. Good people don't generalize in ways like that), and I have impressionable young minds in the room that could agree with that, I have a social responsibility to stand up to that. If I don't say anything, if I do nothing, then that effectively means I am allying myself with the beliefs of that misguided person.

On the flip side, if I have a student who says something to the racist, sexist, homophobic effect, as their teacher it is my responsibility to present a conflicting point of view: I cannot tell a student that they're a bad person, that they're a dirty, irredeemable racist/sexist/-phobe. If I am to make my classroom an inclusive space (or a thread) then that means I need to be inclusive and then let my debating skills show, not tell (there's a difference) that their beliefs are misguided.

Imagine if I told an impressionable teen who probably took their political beliefs from their parents (and thus they are normal) that they're the worst and should die in a fire (like some folks online do). That's going to make them feel bad. But then, as often times happens with random folks on the internet, they go back to where they got those thoughts, tell their parents or cohort, and then they come back even worse because now they think you're an ******* for calling them one.

Then there's also the fact that research shows "giving up and calling bigots names" makes the problem worse. If you want society to change for the better, the unfortunate reality is that people won't educate themselves. They need other people to show them the way.

You have to be the change you want to see in the world. If you want the world to be inclusive, you must be inclusive and open-minded.
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Jones, you're one of the users on this site I have the most respect for.

Posts of yours like this one are a perfect example of why.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Shishœ said:
It really doesn't. Why do you think neo Nazi ideologies have only spread with the rise of the internet? Because we didn't allow nazis to appear on TV or radio nor allow them to write books and newspapers before.
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We did actually. There's been neo nazi literature and stuff out there for decades. Not hard to find.

People were just much better about confronting the people themselves whether in person or through fiction.

Treat them as a problem, not a pariah. Catch my drift?

Shishœ said:
There's a big misconception that this has ever worked with someone who's outright malicious in their bigotry. It doesn't work like that, these people aren't looking for being convinced with those.
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Should I show the video of the black man who befriended the KKK Grand Dragon and got him to quit?

I don't think you watched it the last time I posted it.

Cause what your saying right here is that it never happens. Which is blatantly false.

Shishœ said:
Ever since forever? Debate clubs aren't the same as actual debates, there isn't an impartial third party mediating it and the goal is to convince your opposition to help you. Like in, say, uses of resources or what areas of investment should be focused on. That's where you can find common ground in.
The problem comes when basic human rights are treated like debates and that there is any sort of leeway in how many rights a person is entitled to.
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I stand by statement that debates don't have to have common ground. I've gone through a few in my life.

I'm not saying I like the idea of having to debate whether a race is inferior to another. But if we don't, things will get worse.

This kind of thing is a long haul.



And, just to be real for a moment. I want to be sure that we're cool. Because this conversation we're having IS on common ground. We both agree this thing is bad, we just don't agree on how to make it better.

Hey, actual politics, lmao.
 
KingofPhantoms

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I'd perhaps be more willing to partake in "serious" debates if Ace Attorney gifs were allowed.

Why the hell haven't I just bought the games on the 3DS Eshop yet?
 
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Cyn

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Shishœ said:
Of course something like that would be a violation of human rights..
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I agree. And if this theoretical instance was still written into law, it could and should be debated in a civil manner.....

I hope you don't mistake me for being on the "other side" of the discussion; I'm definitely pro-trans, and am a lesbian myself. I just take issue with the idea of not letting someone voice an opposing opinion in a civil discussion.
 
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D

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Why are my points so distant to some of you?
Like, do I not matter or something? I am bisexual whenever you like it or not. I feel like I need more rights.
 
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