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[Deleted member]

gwenshiffer becalm yourself

You know that episode of Billy & Mandy where Mandy is forced to smile in a school play and then she does that and the whole universe implodes on itself because the natural order was messed with? Imagine that but with Gwen being calm.

 

[Z25]

Would be helpful if you provided an example, I don't really follow this stuff too closely.

Yeah can’t say I know of anytime push handled something badly or did any wrong

 

[Metal Shop X]

You know, when I started months ago, back when I was a naive person, I thought, "Woah, I'm totally going to make her two wings different so that it look better!"

...Welp.

Sometime, you got to take the easy road and just accept the fact that you can't do everything you want to do when you start a project.

Brief, all I need to do now is her tail, and then she be good, mostly.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

The only two on that list I've played to completion were Shadow of the Colossus and The Last of Us.

I also enjoyed Heavenly Sword but I believe that was a third party exclusive made by Ninja Theory, not an actual Sony first party title.

Nope. First Party. Check it out, straight from the game itself.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Fanpolls aren't really accurate at all. At best considering K Rool having both immense popualrity in the fan polls and the ballot, you should keep them at the back of your mind. Even then, K Rool had mountains of support, he routinely topped every poll he was in, so.

This is a good way of putting it.

Nintendo is obviously going to try to appease core fans in some way. It's how we got characters like Ridley and K. Rool. But core fans aren't the end all be all; there are more demographics that play Smash Bros. than just core fans.

I do think, however, we'll get Banjo not only due to his core popularity, but also the fact that Banjo fans were able to light a fire under Phil Spencer and get him to support the character. When you've got Spencer on the record (twice) saying he wants Banjo & Kazooie in Smash, you know he's brought that up at some point or another.

inb4 PapaGenos is actually right with his Microsoft source and LeakyPandy is correct with their DQ source.

Now that would be a weird-ass timeline.

 

[Deleted member]

Fan Polls don't mean **** it doesn't accurately judge the thoughts of people outside of the Smash Community as we aren't even ten percent of the people who play Smash so it doesn't accurately represent other people outside of it.

There's still that 90-95% of people who play Smash and for all we know they may want Goku and other never evers, When have Smash Polls ever been correct? Only once and that was with K. Rool.

Smash Fans opinions do influence who joins from time to time but there's so much more to consider than "Fan Polls".

 

[Deleted member]

Dragon Quest is one of the most popular games in Japan.
It is often ignored anywhere else.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think I found something that might put a smile on Noipoi's face.

 

[Noipoi]

Regardless,

As I said I think all the insiders thoughts on DLC is bull, and I don’t think we are getting any DQ rep or even Square one at this point. There’s nothing to solid going in edericks favor.

I highly doubt reveal orders were switched. It’s one of the many smash theories that people try to use to justify something. Honestly gives me ridley in the clouds vibes. It uses basic conjecture to try and push for something.

I also doubt anyone has leaked the full list out there. No one called joker at all, so if brave was originally dlc one you would think insiders still would know dlc two. Considering the rumblings of a square rep, Steve, and even lyllod by some leakers.

So if people were out here claiming to know around 3 possible dlc choices, the fact that no one knew joker outside of 4 and 5chan posts of all things, just doesn’t add up to me.

I think dlc two will prove once again not to listen to insiders.

Chief, it’s perfectly fine to be skeptical. I encourage it! But this-

Regardless,

As I said I think all the insiders thoughts on DLC is bull, and I don’t think we are getting any DQ rep or even Square one at this point. There’s nothing to solid going in edericks favor.

-This ain’t it.

 

[osby]

You know, when I started months ago, back when I was a naive person, I thought, "Woah, I'm totally going to make her two wings different so that it look better!"

...Welp.
View attachment 205876
Sometime, you got to take the easy road and just accept the fact that you can't do everything you want to do when you start a project.

Brief, all I need to do now is her tail, and then she be good, mostly.

I think this look suits them, tbh.

 

[Deleted member]

This is a good way of putting it.

Nintendo is obviously going to try to appease core fans in some way. It's how we got characters like Ridley and K. Rool. But core fans aren't the end all be all; there are more demographics that play Smash Bros. than just core fans.

I do think, however, we'll get Banjo not only due to his core popularity, but also the fact that Banjo fans were able to light a fire under Phil Spencer and get him to support the character. When you've got Spencer on the record (twice) saying he wants Banjo & Kazooie in Smash, you know he's brought that up at some point or another.

inb4 PapaGenos is actually right with his Microsoft source and LeakyPandy is correct with their DQ source.

Now that would be a weird-*** timeline.

The absolute chad LeakyPandy, accurate the entire time.

 

[Deleted member]

I think I found something that might put a smile on Noipoi's face.

-Sans dabbing-
I am not going to take this too seriously.
Yes, I am judging a book by its cover.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Would be helpful if you provided an example, I don't really follow this stuff too closely.

It goes into a lot of drama and let's just say that when Push stepped down to let NantenJax (I think that was his name anyway, not too sure) take over, it was a change for the better

Regardless,

As I said I think all the insiders thoughts on DLC is bull, and I don’t think we are getting any DQ rep or even Square one at this point. There’s nothing to solid going in edericks favor.

I highly doubt reveal orders were switched. It’s one of the many smash theories that people try to use to justify something. Honestly gives me ridley in the clouds vibes. It uses basic conjecture to try and push for something.

I also doubt anyone has leaked the full list out there. No one called joker at all, so if brave was originally dlc one you would think insiders still would know dlc two. Considering the rumblings of a square rep, Steve, and even lyllod by some leakers.

So if people were out here claiming to know around 3 possible dlc choices, the fact that no one knew joker outside of 4 and 5chan posts of all things, just doesn’t add up to me.

I think dlc two will prove once again not to listen to insiders.

My dude you have been SNORTING that bad twitter thread

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Regardless,

As I said I think all the insiders thoughts on DLC is bull, and I don’t think we are getting any DQ rep or even Square one at this point. There’s nothing to solid going in edericks favor.

I highly doubt reveal orders were switched. It’s one of the many smash theories that people try to use to justify something. Honestly gives me ridley in the clouds vibes. It uses basic conjecture to try and push for something.

I also doubt anyone has leaked the full list out there. No one called joker at all, so if brave was originally dlc one you would think insiders still would know dlc two. Considering the rumblings of a square rep, Steve, and even lyllod by some leakers.

So if people were out here claiming to know around 3 possible dlc choices, the fact that no one knew joker outside of 4 and 5chan posts of all things, just doesn’t add up to me.

I think dlc two will prove once again not to listen to insiders.

Really? Erdrick has nothing in his favor? What about the fact that "Jack" and "Brave" were happily presented in the first update of Ultimate but were promptly deleted from the source code once people started guessing it was Erdrick? As if they were trying to cover their tracks. You know, like they did when they accidentally leaked Ryu and Roy? Hm.

 

[Z25]

Also I’ll be honest, I never really saw dq support till the rumors, but that doesn’t mean much

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Regardless,

As I said I think all the insiders thoughts on DLC is bull, and I don’t think we are getting any DQ rep or even Square one at this point. There’s nothing to solid going in edericks favor.

I highly doubt reveal orders were switched. It’s one of the many smash theories that people try to use to justify something. Honestly gives me ridley in the clouds vibes. It uses basic conjecture to try and push for something.

I also doubt anyone has leaked the full list out there. No one called joker at all, so if brave was originally dlc one you would think insiders still would know dlc two. Considering the rumblings of a square rep, Steve, and even lyllod by some leakers.

So if people were out here claiming to know around 3 possible dlc choices, the fact that no one knew joker outside of 4 and 5chan posts of all things, just doesn’t add up to me.

I think dlc two will prove once again not to listen to insiders.

Oh my friend how flawed your argument is. Take a look at these excerpts from my Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument

Spoiler: Background: Why a Square Enix Character?

For one, a Square Enix character in Smash Ultimate has to be one of, if not the worst kept secret in Nintendo history. We've known about this since at least October, and the rumblings of it began as early as March when the game was first teased. While many believe that leakers have been "BTFO" with the advent of no one knowing about Joker or his impending reveal at The Game Awards, too many people have heard about this for it NOT to happen at this point. Unless Nintendo and Square Enix are playing 5 Dimensional Chess and spreading misinformation about there being a Square Enix character for ****s and giggles, we're getting one, and the misinformation is to mask who it is. Of course, we have that supposed list of 7 characters and accounts of who made it to negotiations and who didn't, but seeing as Nintendo have shown themselves capable of spreading convincing misinformation (Every insider claimed we were getting Metroid Prime and no Smash at The Game Awards only for us to get Joker) I would throw everything we know about the Square Enix character out of the window. For the sake of this post, I'll be doing just that, and I'll be arguing why we should ALL do that in my next speculation piece.

Even if the leaks are fake, I believe there's reason to believe that we're getting a Square Enix character. For one, Square Enix has been oddly liberal with their IPs as of late, adding Noctis (Final Fantasy XV) into Tekken, Behemoth (Final Fantasy) in Monster Hunter, Assassin's Creed with Final Fantasy XV, and 2B (Nier: Automata) into Soul Calibur 6. When discussing how Noctis got into Tekken, it was stated that it was due to the relationship between Tekken producer Katsuhiro Harada and Final Fantasy XV director Hajime Tabata, showing that all it takes is some good blood to get the ball rolling. Fortunately, not only is Sakurai friends with Tetsuya Normura, but Square Enix seems to be in a second golden age with Nintendo, with Octopath Traveler performing better than expected. Prior to its release, Square Enix said that if Octopath Traveler was successful, they would focus on the Switch as a console; staying true to their word Square Enix telling those present at an earnings conference to expect more games like Octopath Traveler and creating a division to specifically focus on making Switch games. Square Enix has every reason to go to Nintendo and get a character of their's in Smash; it's win-win, they get exposure for one of their series, and Nintendo gets massive press for Smash Bros.

Spoiler: Erdrick/Dragon Quest

This is what inspired me to write this post, given that people have argued for Sora, Geno, and other roster picks citing all of these articles but never Erdrick or another Dragon Quest character. You can thank me later Calane

Anyways, let's begin with a history lesson. Dragon Quest is the grandfather of the entire RPG genre, with the first game in the series releasing on the NES an entire year and a half before the first Final Fantasy game. It is Square Enix's 2nd best selling series, sitting at 75 million units sold as of a year ago between its main titles and spin-offs, and has a long history with Nintendo, with every main entry in the series being playable on Nintendo consoles (only 2 of 11 main series games weren't on Nintendo consoles initially, being 7 and 8, though they later received 3DS remakes). Nintendo even published Dragon Quest I, VI, VII, VIII, and IX within Western countries. IX is notable as it was a third-party DS game published by Nintendo, something only done for Dragon Quest and Level-5 games in the DS era. Mario and co. have also crossed over with the Dragon Quest bunch multiple times in the Fortune Street series, creating a precedent for a crossover between Nintendo and Dragon Quest. More recently, Dragon Quest XI was one of the first games revealed for the Nintendo Switch, then called the Nintendo NX, and more recently has been announced to be an upgraded version named Dragon Quest XI S (appearing at this year's Jump Festa), which will include voice acting among other new features. Needless to say, the ties between Nintendo and Dragon Quest are VERY strong.

Additionally Dragon Quest's is a cultural phenomenon in Japan. This game series is so large that it's spawned an urban myth on the level of "the average human eats 8 spiders in their sleep per year" about there being a law that Dragon Quest games had to be released on weekends, or that when Dragon Quest games released it was akin to a national holiday. While there is a Dragon Quest Day, it's an unofficial holiday, and in reality, 300 kids were arrested for truancy when Dragon Quest III released and muggings of Dragon Quest games became so widespread that there were hearings about in the Japanese parliament, leading the developers to feel bad about creating a nationwide issue and moving the game's release dates to the weekend. The series is large enough to be a common conversation topic in Japan, and is considered by many within the Japanese gaming industry to be Japan's national game. I **** you not, this series is so big that it caused the entire staff of the HiatusxHiatus HunterxHunter anime to go on hiatus JUST TO PLAY DRAGON QUEST, the series has a world record in the Guinness Book of World Records for being the first game to inspire a ballet, and has an amusement park attraction at Universal Studios Japan (where Nintendo will be soon), that's is how big this series is.

Due to Dragon Quest's Japanese popularity, Sakurai talks about it quite a bit. In the Sakurai x Normura Interview Sakurai mentions game designer Yosuke Saito (who worked on Dragon Quest X) on "a list of game designers born in 1970, [where] there's quite a few big names" alongside Hideki Kamiya, Yoko Taro, and John Carmack, and participated in a roundtable discussion with series creator Yuji Horii and Junichi Masuda of Pokémon fame where they discussed Dragon Quest XI. He's notably advocated for the series twice, first in 2011 when he stood up for Dragon Quest X and expressed that he looks forward to it, and plays Devil's Advocate for the series' difficulty, also directly acknowledging the series' popularity in the process, and went far as finding a workaround to play Dragon Quest Heroes among other games while recovering from his arm injury.. Sakurai also notably lists Dragon Quest III alongside Megaman, Final Fantasy, and Ocarina of Time among others when talking about anniversaries, and COMPARES KIRBY (you know, that one character that HE CREATED AND TREATS LIKE HIS CHILD) TO THE MAIN CHARACTER OF A DRAGON QUEST GAME. Needless to say, Dragon Quest is on Sakurai's radar.

Now, to address the common counterarguments:
The first is the series' western popularity. While the series is certainly historic, and is amazingly popular in Japan, it largely lacks a presence in the West, with 3 million+ out of 4 million copies (more than 75%) of Dragon Quest XI being sold in Japan instead of the West. It's no small secret that Square Enix has been fighting a decades long battle (sometimes alongside Nintendo) to make Dragon Quest popular in the West, and it seems like they're stacking the deck to make Dragon Quest XI the game that breaks through. I believe that Square Enix would be willing to make a gamble on the inclusion of a Dragon Quest character in Smash Bros. in an attempt to boost the series' western popularity. We've seen a good amount people interested in playing Persona with the inclusion of Joker, and "the Smash effect" could similarly boost Dragon Quest's western sales in the future.

Second, the licensing. Many people cite Dragon Quest as a "licensing nightmare" in an attempt to discredit the series' inclusion, but it's not as complicated as you'd think. Dragon Quest as a whole is between four parties: Square Enix (Development, IP ownership), Armor Project (game design), Bird Studio (character design), and Koichi Sugiyama (music). Of those four, two are no problem to deal with, being Square Enix and Armor Project, run by series' director Yuji Horii, both of whom have benefitted from positive relations with Nintendo and would no doubt like to have a Dragon Quest character in Smash to boost the series' Western popularity. That leaves Bird Studio, run by Akira Toriyama, and Koichi Sugiyama as the wildcards in rights negotiation for Dragon Quest content. However, I'm willing to believe that both will cooperate. For one, Akira Toriyama worked closely alongside Arc System Works and Namco Bandai to design Android 21, an original character, for Dragon Ball Fighterz. Namco's involvement in this scenario is notable, as they're also developer Smash Bros. Ultimate, and using their connections developing the Dragon Ball games, could bring Toriyama to the negotiating table if he isn't already there. Additionally, in developing at least Fighterz, the developers worked alongside Toei Animation and Shueisha instead of Toriyama, who made slight changes to the game to fit with the Dragon Ball IP, which could be taken as Toriyama taking a back seat when it comes to adaptations of his work. Given how many Dragon Ball games have been made, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case Goku, his star character, has been licensed out on a couple of occasions to Fuji TV and is the ambassador of the 2020 Tokyo Olympic games, which leaves me with little doubt he'd be willing to work with Nintendo on a Dragon Quest character for Smash Bros (one of the largest crossovers ever) and grant Sakurai the proper artistic license to make a Dragon Quest character a reasonable inclusion. As for Sugiyama? The use of midi music files has been suggested multiple times and could be a viable way to get Dragon Quest into Smash Bros. if needed. If Nintendo and Sakurai decide to go the orchestral route they might run into trouble due to either money or Sugiyama's seeming unwillingness to let us worldwide players have orchestral music (this is overblown, however, as Dragon Quest XI had a midi soundtrack worldwide instead of just in the West), which is the only problem I could viably see happening. However, Nintendo has dealt with this before and will do it again if negotiations go right, at worst we just end up with midis instead of orchestral music and remixes. As for the controversy surrounding Sugiyama, that's a nonissue, given that Square Enix has made a statement about it saying that it doesn't speak to company policy and are moving ahead with Dragon Quest anyways.

If Square Enix has the chance to push Dragon Quest, I could easily see them doing so. I see a Dragon Quest character as one of, if not the likeliest Square Enix character given that everything seems to line up for it. Dragon Quest is the most historic choice, and while not iconic worldwide, has the proper circumstances surrounding it to make up for that fact and justify its inclusion in Smash.

Furthermore, the only character insiders are certain on is Erdrick. Banjo, Steve, and Lloyd are all unconfirmed heresy.

Also I’ll be honest, I never really saw dq support till the rumors, but that doesn’t mean much

Yeah, because the series is predominantly popular in Japan. Before the leaks Dragon Quest fans were marginalized by Geno and Sora supporters, but the leaks gave them the confidence to come out and openly support the series. Furthermore, it turned some people such as myself towards supporting the series.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The more I think about it. The more I just love War of the Monsters.

 

[Gentlepanda]

I don't remember seeing Joker on any of those polls so he's obviously not getting in.

【ｓｈｉｎｏｂｉ　ｅｘｅｃｕｔｉｏｎ】

 

[Deleted member]

It goes into a lot of drama and let's just say that when Push stepped down to let NantenJax (I think that was his name anyway, not too sure) take over, it was a change for the better

I'm not doubting ya, I just can't take your word for it alone then.

 

[Raxxel]

I will say that it is pretty telling to me that Banjo-Kazooie are almost always at the very tip top of polls now. Pre-Ultimate that's what happened with K. Rool and Ridley. If we're getting a fan choice of a character in the DLC then Banjo will probably be them.

I want Banjo over Steve, but fan polls will simply never be big enough to garner the attention of a casual audience that makes up a majority of the Smash playerbase. I don't think they really can represent the wants of casuals like the ballot did, the ballot was announced and broadcasted worldwide in a direct, which has a very large, general audience. I'm not saying Banjo is unwanted, but fan polls are unreliable.

 

[Z25]

Really? Erdrick has nothing in his favor? What about the fact that "Jack" and "Brave" were happily presented in the first update of Ultimate but were promptly deleted from the source code once people started guessing it was Erdrick? As if they were trying to cover their tracks. You know, like they did when they accidentally leaked Ryu and Roy? Hm.

Did you forgot that those files disappeared after we saw what the stats looked like on ike?

And when that happened Sora and banjo gained a lot of traction, especially the former? I don’t think that can guarantee anything either way

 

[SlickWylde]

Come on lad, you can dislike PushDustIn, but he literally said he made a mistake and apologised.

As someone who was actually here when PushDustin was very active and posted a lot in the leaks/speculation thread (Even before he started his site) - PushDustin is a good guy. Just like all of us he can be wrong, but yeah there's definitely no reason to talk crap about him and act like he was a huge jerk or something.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t think we are getting any DQ rep

are you serio-

or even Square one at this point

 

[Deleted member]

Off-Topic, but the whole "Steve expressionless" argument is dumb.
Minecraft spin-offs have shown that Minecraft characters can have animated faces. YouTubers have done this too.

Look at Mr. Game and Watch. Mr. Game and Watch is supposed to be a two dimensional character without eyes, but hey, they made him work. ( He is actually 3D in Smash Bros, we just see it as 2D. ) I am sure they can make Steve work too.

Steve also has a ton of potential with his moveset. Have you all played Minecraft?
Steve has more creative possibilities than Banjo does.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I think this look suits them, tbh.

It would look good, buuuuuut, the thing is, she would look too much like Morrigan from Darkstalkers, or you average succubus in general.

Spoiler

And the thing is, while I want some similiarites between two, I still want some big difference between my character & Morrigan to show the contrast between a pure succubus, and a alien who look and act like a succubus.

 

[Deleted member]

are you serio-

View attachment 205878

I swear to ****ing god if I went through all this square rep bull**** just for there to not be a square character at all

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Behold more of this underrated gem.

Adore its glory!

This game should had gotten a sequel. Why it didn't I will never know...

 

[Deleted member]

I swear to ****ing god if I went through all this square rep bull**** just for there to not be a square character at all

Qbby and Spongebob are in.

 

[Mythra]

I came here for the degeneracy hour and instead got speculation.


Why you must hurt me like dis.

 

[mbvswb]

As far as im concerned Erdrick is the new Kencineroar, as in, we've known for so long that we're doubting it because its dissapointing.


Doesn't mean its not happening. It is. For sure.

 

[Deleted member]

I swear to ****ing god if I went through all this square rep bull**** just for there to not be a square character at all

y'all really sleep

 

[staindgrey]

AERITH IS DEAD, BRO.

View attachment 205875

OH GOD
OH NO
HOW COULD WE LET THIS HAPPEN

Who's Aerith.

 

[Deleted member]

I came here for the degeneracy hour and instead got speculation.
View attachment 205880

Why you must hurt me like dis.

Fine. Boobs.
Anyways yeah I'd be really surprised if Erdrick wasn't in at this point.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not doubting ya, I just can't take your word for it alone then.

I guess I know an example that won't cause drama, he'd often send warnings for posts that break the rules. Not "Dear poster, you have received a warning" like how it's supposed to be done but he'd DM you and go "Hey maybe don't do that." It becomes a problem if another mod sees the post and sees there's been no warning given, thinking "Hey, nobody has noticed this, I'm going to send them a warning". It's double work for mods and considering my already negative stance on how moderation is handled on the site, wouldn't you agree it's better to have less double work and instead have the mods check new things which may have actually been missed instead of 'handled but not really'? Besides, his last 2 posts were in January in the news section about him stepping down and in October so how the hell is he still a mod if he's so inactive? He stepped down because IRL stuff was making it harder to combine SG and his actual life so what are the chances he'd even go here for mod duties between all that then? You respectfully remove his mod privileges until he can come back regularly so that someone else who CAN mod now can do his job

 

[Deleted member]

I came here for the degeneracy hour and instead got speculation.
View attachment 205880

Why you must hurt me like dis.

female breasts and male genitals

there are you satisfied

 

[Michael the Spikester]

At this point the only ones I'm confident on their inclusions are Erdrick and Banjo (Used to be Steve but more evidence is now leaning more towards the bear and bird duo).

Otherwise rather unsure of the last two though one of them I could see being maybe an Resident Evil rep or Lloyd/Yuri.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I came here for the degeneracy hour and instead got speculation.
View attachment 205880

Why you must hurt me like dis.

Here is my OC boobs to compensate.

Yeah, I already post it, and no, I don't care.

 

[osby]

Also I’ll be honest, I never really saw dq support till the rumors, but that doesn’t mean much

I agree with you, it doesn't mean much, considering I hardly saw any Joker support before Ultimate's release.

 

[Deleted member]

female breasts and male genitals

there are you satisfied

I am a butt person too.
Yes, I am satisfied with both of those options.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Off-Topic, but the whole "Steve expressionless" argument is dumb.
Minecraft spin-offs have shown that Minecraft characters can have animated faces. YouTubers have done this too.

Look at Mr. Game and Watch. Mr. Game and Watch is supposed to be a two dimensional character without eyes, but hey, they made him work. ( He is actually 3D in Smash Bros, we just see it as 2D. ) I am sure they can make Steve work too.

Steve also has a ton of potential with his moveset. Have you all played Minecraft?
Steve has more creative possibilities than Banjo does.

Agreed, though Banjo-Kazooie's arsenal of moves is pretty creative itself, and I think Sakurai could make a nice moveset out of them.

I think they could give Steve expressions either by using Minecraft: Dungeons's way of doing it, or by changing the pixels on his face; they could even make his pupils move across his eyes when he's looking around, or even "roll" around if he takes a huge hit and his eyes get a bit bigger or something.

tbh I'd like it if they kept his stiff limbs though I wouldn't really mind Dungeons limbs.