Social Ultimate Social Thread: Under Construction. Be Back Soon!

[staindgrey]

dude could you do everyone a favor and just stop

Said the kettle to the pot.

Jk Goth you're cool.

 

[Z25]

And yeah I get the fan poll argument, but when it’s from a site that was run by a mod here who fact-checks the hell out of things, I think it’s a very fair thing to use

 

[Deleted member]

First I used one poll. Which here:

Secondly I stated that if your gonna say one way or another one of those two was changed for promotion reasons. It makes no sense for either. None of their games come out when they would.

Not to mention that it makes no sense to suggest joker to Sakurai from a recent game then bring up this man from years ago. Dlc more then likely is gonna be recent charcters or ones with big requests from the ballot and as we can see slime ranked higher. So why would they suggest and add elderick?

Yes a perfect time to tease dlc two of elderick but they didn’t

I once saw this poll get ripped to shreds, so ill paraphrase that argument. This magazine, while not insignificant, isn't super huge in the first place. It's smaller than 4gamer and Famitsu. The fact that only the first 5 are ordered, the rest are scattered about tells you that the sample size probably wasn't that big in the first place if they couldn't even get a proper top 10. It really doesn't mean anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Goth you're cool.

thank you staind

 

[Kingslime304]

Hey guys, get this:
Fire Emblem, mixed with Orgeon Trail gameplay, as well an improved free moving system similar to the dungeons from Echoes.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

PlayStation, yes. Sony, probably no.

Really? No Twisted Metal, God of War, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, LittleBigPlanet, MedEvil, Ape Escape, Legend of Dragoon, WipeOut, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, The Last of Us, inFamous, Uncharted, Resistance, Heavenly Sword? None of that tickles your fancy

Does Metal Gear count?

No. (Though I bet Sony wishes it did, imagine if they actually bought the franchise rights to it and games like Final Fantasy, Tekken, etc. How different would gaming be if they did that)

Sly Cooper was my childhood.

This guy gets it!

 

[Roberk]

Also take a look at this:
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/

Now where’s mr goku the second? Or any of his friends?

2000 people polled is a very low data sample for Smash, I usually disregard polls like these because it’s mainly using the hardcore smash community that’s in a bubble rather than the large amount of casuals that just play Smash and don’t vote on polls like these.

 

[staindgrey]

I'm curious. Do you guys like any PlayStation franchises? Like, first party Sony games.

No.

There is absolutely zero nostalgia as we never owned any Sony consoles growing up. My first Sony branded thing I owned was a walkman, then a PS3 explicitly to play Heavy Rain when I was 20.

EDIT: I forgot The Last of Us is Sony/Naughty Dog, I'll give them that one. Excellent game.

 

[Deleted member]

Also take a look at this:
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/

Now where’s mr goku the second? Or any of his friends?

my dude

my man

my bro

tehponycorn literally just shared an entire ****ing essay about why fanpolls are biased and **** and you're still citing them as evidence

 

[Z25]

dude could you do everyone a favor and just stop

That’s a bit harsh?

I wasn’t the one starting debates to begin with. I came in said my thoughts and people got on me about them.

So yeah I don’t sit down like a *****. I responded respectful and State my peace

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Also take a look at this:
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/

Now where’s mr goku the second? Or any of his friends?

Fan polls are incredibly biased. Read this excerpt from my own The Case for Minecraft Steve and the "Smash Bubble" Effect for elaboration as to why this is so:

Spoiler: What is the "Smash Bubble?"

One of the most prominent arguments against Steve is that he's not a popular choice among fans, with speculators citing fan poll after fan poll to prove this. One GameFAQs user even said of polls like this,

There doesn't need to be a dozen debates about who's popular and who isn't when we have tons of objective data. Popularity isn't an opinion.
Oh GameFAQs how you never cease to amuse me.

All of these polls fall into the same trap of being contained within the "Smash Bubble" as myself and others have coined it. What exactly is the "Smash Bubble" though? If I had to define it, I would as such:


While the contribution of these focused fans isn't to be ignored, as evidenced by K. Rool's immense Ballot presence in part due to the Kutthroat's Ballot Campaign and Sakurai's statements on Ridley and Geno, a flaw of the fanbase at large is a general insistence that those within the Smash Bubble are the only Smash Bros. fans and that by not catering to them specifically, Nintendo is making a mistake. This sentiment completely ignores other fanbases outside of the core fanbase which gave us picks such as Isabelle and Simon Belmont.

"But tehponycorn" you say, "Simon was a popular pick! Sakurai even said so himself!" Take a look at the many fan polls listed above and tell me how many Simon prominently appears on. The answer is 3. While 3/12 may seem like modest popularity, his votes total less than 1,000, and he's listed among many other, more popular third party characters. That hardly lines up with Sakurai's statement of Castlevania being "popular in player polls." So, there's a disconnect between what fan polls show and actual popularity? Why is this?

I propose an explanation in two parts:

First, all fan polls by nature fall prey to Voluntary Response Bias, defined as:


Every Smash fan poll cited majorly falls within the Smash Bubble because those within the Smash Bubble are most inclined to vote on polls like these. Granted, even the official Smash Ballot itself falls prey to this, and indeed those within the Smash Bubble would be much more inclined to vote in an official poll like this, but any bias within it is made up for by the Law of Large Numbers, defined as:

The official nature of the poll and the advertising conducted for it extended the reach of the poll to even casual fans, which is why it's so important to establish this disconnect. The largest, most recent Smash fan poll as of right now is the Reddit Smash Ultimate Tourney randomized poll, with over 50,000 votes. In comparison, the Smash Ballot collected 1.8 million votes (360 times more votes), making it much closer to the wants of the entire Smash Bros. fanbase, hence why picks like Simon Belmont can float by the core fanbase largely undetected.

Second, there exists a strong, silent majority of fans outside of the core fanbase that has sway in character picks. People tend to forget that Nintendo tries to market Smash Bros. for everyone, or at the very least, the largest amount of people possible. It doesn't matter if you're a child whose mom bought him a Switch for Christmas or someone who's been with them since the NES, so long as you're a fan of Nintendo you might as well be considered a part of the Smash Bros. fanbase. Naturally, the wider Nintendo fanbase is largely varied, and outside of the Smash Bubble exists many different demographics with different character desires. This is how we end up with picks like Isabelle, who caters to the larger, more casual fanbase who see Isabelle often.

Returning to the Reddit Smash Ultimate Tourney randomized poll, you'll notice that Sora and Phoenix Wright scored better than they typically do in other fan polls, taking 5th and 8th place respectively, and garnering a total 20,883 votes, equal to around 40% of votes in the final round. This is impressive for two characters usually overlooked within the Smash Bubble in favor of other, more popular speculation picks. The poll includes this interesting fact about them:

The characters with the most brigaders were Sora (more than half his voters came from non-reddit referrers) and Phoenix Wright (a third of his voters came from non-reddit referrers)

If a larger reddit fan poll was able to attract people outside of Reddit's r/SmashBros, then a poll as massive as the official Ballot would be able to attract people from all over, giving a skew towards the silent majority, as anyone could vote on it, even people outside of the regular Nintendo or Smash Bros. fanbase.

To make a long story short, there is a silent presence outside of the Smash Bubble. It is large and it is more powerful than many think. While our Smash Bubble is a prominent part of the fanbase, Nintendo has a much wider fanbase to appeal to as well, and the Smash Bubble isn't indicative of Smash Bros. fans in general.

Fan polls can't be trusted, and shouldn't be used as evidence for anything else other than popularity within the core fanbase.

You're making this far too easy.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm curious. Do you guys like any PlayStation franchises? Like, first party Sony games.

I love God of War. Huge fan of it.

Also love the underrated and long forgotten War of the Monsters.

Otherwise others I like are Gravity Rush, MediEvil, Uncharted, Until Dawn, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

That’s a bit harsh?

I wasn’t the one starting debates to begin with. I came in said my thoughts and people got on me about them.

So yeah I don’t sit down like a *****. I responded respectful and State my peace

yeah no you're just being annoying now
sorry if that's harsh but i think there's some other people who agree

 

[Deleted member]

Really? No Twisted Metal, God of War, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, LittleBigPlanet, MedEvil, Ape Escape, Legend of Dragoon, WipeOut, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, The Last of Us, inFamous, Uncharted, Resistance, Heavenly Sword? None of that tickles your fancy

No. (Though I bet Sony wishes it did, imagine if they actually bought the franchise rights to it and games like Final Fantasy, Tekken, etc. How different would gaming be if they did that)

This guy gets it!

Then no, not really.

 

[Deleted member]

Also take a look at this:
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/

Now where’s mr goku the second? Or any of his friends?

Given how there's less than like 4000 votes on this poll, it's a far cry from the hundreds of thousands who voted in the actual smash ballot or is an accurate measurement of how appreciated Dragon Quest will be. Pity too because 4000 votes are beat the **** out by games that sell in the millions.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm curious. Do you guys like any PlayStation franchises? Like, first party Sony games.

Nope, not really.

I’ve actually never had a PlayStation. We could only afford one console most times, and Nintendo had Pokémon and Mario so it was a no brainer.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And yeah I get the fan poll argument, but when it’s from a site that was run by a mod here who fact-checks the hell out of things, I think it’s a very fair thing to use

Ah right, PushDustIn, the guy who said "Lol Geno would just be a Mii Gunner echo because of this Sakurai interview" which even his own ****ing article about that contradicting his claim. Push often knows **** all and prefers deleting evidence of being wrong. Not to mention both times you showed a poll you forgot to show the numbers here, that's VERY important, a poll of 3000 people would be vastly different than one of 300 people

 

[Kingslime304]

Oh right, I remember playing Ape Escape Punped and Primed as my very first game on the Ps2. Played a lot of hours on that game.

 

[Deleted member]

So I wasn't here basically all weekend.

What'd I miss.

AERITH IS DEAD, BRO.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

And yeah I get the fan poll argument, but when it’s from a site that was run by a mod here who fact-checks the hell out of things, I think it’s a very fair thing to use

I don't remember seeing Joker on any of those polls so he's obviously not getting in.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

And yeah I get the fan poll argument, but when it’s from a site that was run by a mod here who fact-checks the hell out of things, I think it’s a very fair thing to use

Fan polls are incredibly biased. Read this excerpt from my own The Case for Minecraft Steve and the "Smash Bubble" Effect for elaboration as to why this is so:

Spoiler: What is the "Smash Bubble?"

One of the most prominent arguments against Steve is that he's not a popular choice among fans, with speculators citing fan poll after fan poll to prove this. One GameFAQs user even said of polls like this,

There doesn't need to be a dozen debates about who's popular and who isn't when we have tons of objective data. Popularity isn't an opinion.
Oh GameFAQs how you never cease to amuse me.

All of these polls fall into the same trap of being contained within the "Smash Bubble" as myself and others have coined it. What exactly is the "Smash Bubble" though? If I had to define it, I would as such:


While the contribution of these focused fans isn't to be ignored, as evidenced by K. Rool's immense Ballot presence in part due to the Kutthroat's Ballot Campaign and Sakurai's statements on Ridley and Geno, a flaw of the fanbase at large is a general insistence that those within the Smash Bubble are the only Smash Bros. fans and that by not catering to them specifically, Nintendo is making a mistake. This sentiment completely ignores other fanbases outside of the core fanbase which gave us picks such as Isabelle and Simon Belmont.

"But tehponycorn" you say, "Simon was a popular pick! Sakurai even said so himself!" Take a look at the many fan polls listed above and tell me how many Simon prominently appears on. The answer is 3. While 3/12 may seem like modest popularity, his votes total less than 1,000, and he's listed among many other, more popular third party characters. That hardly lines up with Sakurai's statement of Castlevania being "popular in player polls." So, there's a disconnect between what fan polls show and actual popularity? Why is this?

I propose an explanation in two parts:

First, all fan polls by nature fall prey to Voluntary Response Bias, defined as:


Every Smash fan poll cited majorly falls within the Smash Bubble because those within the Smash Bubble are most inclined to vote on polls like these. Granted, even the official Smash Ballot itself falls prey to this, and indeed those within the Smash Bubble would be much more inclined to vote in an official poll like this, but any bias within it is made up for by the Law of Large Numbers, defined as:

The official nature of the poll and the advertising conducted for it extended the reach of the poll to even casual fans, which is why it's so important to establish this disconnect. The largest, most recent Smash fan poll as of right now is the Reddit Smash Ultimate Tourney randomized poll, with over 50,000 votes. In comparison, the Smash Ballot collected 1.8 million votes (360 times more votes), making it much closer to the wants of the entire Smash Bros. fanbase, hence why picks like Simon Belmont can float by the core fanbase largely undetected.

Second, there exists a strong, silent majority of fans outside of the core fanbase that has sway in character picks. People tend to forget that Nintendo tries to market Smash Bros. for everyone, or at the very least, the largest amount of people possible. It doesn't matter if you're a child whose mom bought him a Switch for Christmas or someone who's been with them since the NES, so long as you're a fan of Nintendo you might as well be considered a part of the Smash Bros. fanbase. Naturally, the wider Nintendo fanbase is largely varied, and outside of the Smash Bubble exists many different demographics with different character desires. This is how we end up with picks like Isabelle, who caters to the larger, more casual fanbase who see Isabelle often.

Returning to the Reddit Smash Ultimate Tourney randomized poll, you'll notice that Sora and Phoenix Wright scored better than they typically do in other fan polls, taking 5th and 8th place respectively, and garnering a total 20,883 votes, equal to around 40% of votes in the final round. This is impressive for two characters usually overlooked within the Smash Bubble in favor of other, more popular speculation picks. The poll includes this interesting fact about them:

If a larger reddit fan poll was able to attract people outside of Reddit's r/SmashBros, then a poll as massive as the official Ballot would be able to attract people from all over, giving a skew towards the silent majority, as anyone could vote on it, even people outside of the regular Nintendo or Smash Bros. fanbase.

To make a long story short, there is a silent presence outside of the Smash Bubble. It is large and it is more powerful than many think. While our Smash Bubble is a prominent part of the fanbase, Nintendo has a much wider fanbase to appeal to as well, and the Smash Bubble isn't indicative of Smash Bros. fans in general.

Fan polls can't be trusted, and shouldn't be used as evidence for anything else other than popularity within the core fanbase.

While the SourceGaming poll can be trusted more than others, it is still a fan poll, and as such does not reflect the interests of all people who play Smash Bros.

I don't remember seeing Joker on any of those polls so he's obviously not getting in.

Never thought I'd see the day where I argue alongside @ShinyLegendary AND NonSpecificGuy .

What a world we live in.

 

[osby]

Really? No Twisted Metal, God of War, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, LittleBigPlanet, MedEvil, Ape Escape, Legend of Dragoon, WipeOut, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, The Last of Us, inFamous, Uncharted, Resistance, Heavenly Sword? None of that tickles your fancy

Uncharted and The Last of Us seems cool but that's it. I only ever used my Sony consoles to play third party games.

 

[Deleted member]

Fanpolls aren't really accurate at all. At best considering K Rool having both immense popualrity in the fan polls and the ballot, you should keep them at the back of your mind. Even then, K Rool had mountains of support, he routinely topped every poll he was in, so.

 

[Noipoi]

Fans have influenced many characters, and it could happen again (Banjo?) but fan polls aren’t everything.

Is that what we’re talking about? I haven’t been keeping up.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

One thing I love about Sony games is like Nintendo own various different kinds of franchises of all genres such as the ones I mentioned.

That's also not getting started with Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Twisted Metal, Folklore, Heavenly Sword, InFamous, Primal, Heavenly Sword, Heavy Rain, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us, etc. The list goes on.

Then compare that to XBox's Microsoft...

 

[Diem]

I'm curious. Do you guys like any PlayStation franchises? Like, first party Sony games.

The Resistance series is the only PlayStation franchise I've ever really cared about:

One of the most underrated first-person shooter series of all time. The world and lore it created was really unique and compelling, and had some really clever and fun weapon designs I'm surprised weren't ripped off by another game already. But it never took off like Halo did, as it was part of Sony's shotgun strategy to compete with Microsoft, which they abandoned once the market changed from 2013-onwards.

And it was clear in the third installment (as well as their following project, Sunset Overdrive) that Insomniac Games was pretty done with the series and the military shooter genre in general. The third game had less of a tone like Halo or Call of Duty and more of a Walking Dead/Half-Life 2 tone, with civilization being sparse and little communities fighting against the enemy, with all conventional militaries being wiped out.

It was still imaginative, but definitely not living up to the full potential that the series had, and really suspended disbelief when it ended with just one dude saving the world in a very convenient way, rather than working to build up a force or plan to intelligently and forcefully combat the problem. The game isn't unenjoyable, just very contrived and doesn't really follow the previous games in a believable way.

 

[Roberk]

I'm curious. Do you guys like any PlayStation franchises? Like, first party Sony games.

Nope, I’m a Nintendo/PC guy who has owned Xboxes to play Halo and some multiplat franchises. Some seem cool but I don’t want to venture out into another console ecosystem for a couple of games.

 

[Schnee117]

It's also still a largely western based poll so no **** DQ's gonna barely have a presence on it.

Ah right, PushDustIn, the guy who said "Lol Geno would just be a Mii Gunner echo because of this Sakurai interview" which even his own ****ing article about that contradicting his claim. Push often knows **** all and prefers deleting evidence of being wrong.

 

[staindgrey]

Really? No Twisted Metal, God of War, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, LittleBigPlanet, MedEvil, Ape Escape, Legend of Dragoon, WipeOut, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, The Last of Us, inFamous, Uncharted, Resistance, Heavenly Sword? None of that tickles your fancy

The only two on that list I've played to completion were Shadow of the Colossus and The Last of Us.

I also enjoyed Heavenly Sword but I believe that was a third party exclusive made by Ninja Theory, not an actual Sony first party title.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah right, PushDustIn, the guy who said "Lol Geno would just be a Mii Gunner echo because of this Sakurai interview" which even his own ****ing article about that contradicting his claim. Push often knows **** all and prefers deleting evidence of being wrong. Not to mention both times you showed a poll you forgot to show the numbers here, that's VERY important, a poll of 3000 people would be vastly different than one of 300 people

Come on lad, you can dislike PushDustIn, but he literally said he made a mistake and apologised.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

gow rocks

i like spiderman ps4 too

horizon zero dawn was great

and the uncharted games/the last of us obvs

that's basically it for me though

Spider-Man arguably dosn't count but it's still a great game! You have good tastes

I've been holding off on touching my PS3 for too damn long and I don't have enough games from various franchises to say anything on that. Most of my older Playstation experiences were movie tie-in games. From what I've seen I might have enjoyed MediEvil but not much else. I DO enjoy Yakuza though, and I'm not sure if it's even been on anything BUT the playstation until recently

Check out MediEvil when the remake comes out in 2019. It's great! Yakuza's a SEGA franchise though.

No.

There is absolutely zero nostalgia as we never owned any Sony consoles growing up. My first Sony branded thing I owned was a walkman, then a PS3 explicitly to play Heavy Rain when I was 20.

EDIT: I forgot The Last of Us is Sony/Naughty Dog, I'll give them that one. Excellent game.

Well, at least you like a good one. I suggest checking some of their franchises out.

I love God of War. Huge fan of it.

Also love the underrated and long forgotten War of the Monsters.

Otherwise others I like are Gravity Rush, MediEvil, Uncharted, Until Dawn, etc.

Those are all great picks! Never heard of War of the Monsters. I'll look into it.

Nope, not really.

I’ve actually never had a PlayStation. We could only afford one console most times, and Nintendo had Pokémon and Mario so it was a no brainer.

That's fair. I somehow managed to afford all the modern gaming consoles. And the same logic went into my PlayStation purchases. I just REALLY like they're franchises. It's one of the main reasons why I still play PSAll-Stars. Like, imagine if the only Smash was 64. It's not that great honestly, but you'd still play it because you love the franchises.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Fans have influenced many characters, and it could happen again (Banjo?) but fan polls aren’t everything.

Is that what we’re talking about? I haven’t been keeping up.

I'm pretty sure?

All I saw was a guy using fan polls for evidence of general popularity and I pressed the launch button so I don't really know.

 

[Deleted member]

Also take a look at this:
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/

Now where’s mr goku the second? Or any of his friends?

You literally missed tehponycorn's point though.

Smash polls do not even count for 0.1% of the millions of Smash fans.
Only a hundred users compared the millions of smash fans answer those fan polls. Most of them are not even casuals too.
Ballots can be biased, as tehponycorn said.
More casual fans favor popular gaming characters like Steve, meanwhile most hardcore fans would go with Banjo or Chrous Kids or some character that is less known. That is why they score high, and Steve scores less higher. It is mostly the hardcore fans.

These ballots are terrible at gathering the true wants of the people, stop using them as information.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah right, PushDustIn, the guy who said "Lol Geno would just be a Mii Gunner echo because of this Sakurai interview" which even his own ****ing article about that contradicting his claim. Push often knows **** all and prefers deleting evidence of being wrong. Not to mention both times you showed a poll you forgot to show the numbers here, that's VERY important, a poll of 3000 people would be vastly different than one of 300 people

gwenshiffer becalm yourself

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I will say that it is pretty telling to me that Banjo-Kazooie are almost always at the very tip top of polls now. Pre-Ultimate that's what happened with K. Rool and Ridley. If we're getting a fan choice of a character in the DLC then Banjo will probably be them.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Those are all great picks! Never heard of War of the Monsters. I'll look into it.

Really fun game where its a Vs. fighting free-roaming game. You get to play as 10 monsters (Two of those you must unlock) who are basically homages of 50s classics such as Togera (Based on Godzilla), Congar (Based on King Kong), Preytor (Based on The Giant Mantis) and such. What Atari's Godzilla games should had been.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Come on lad, you can dislike PushDustIn, but he literally said he made a mistake and apologised.

Let's just say I've seen how he handles other stuff and he doesn't exactly handle it well. This isn't the only time but the times I'm talking about are a hell of a lot more controversial

 

[Deleted member]

I'm curious. Do you guys like any PlayStation franchises? Like, first party Sony games.

I loved the Sly Cooper games and adored Little Big Planet 1 and 2, but that's about it.

Nowadays I don't really care about their first-party studios at all. I'm just not their market anymore, lol.

 

[Z25]

Regardless,

As I said I think all the insiders thoughts on DLC is bull, and I don’t think we are getting any DQ rep or even Square one at this point. There’s nothing to solid going in edericks favor.

I highly doubt reveal orders were switched. It’s one of the many smash theories that people try to use to justify something. Honestly gives me ridley in the clouds vibes. It uses basic conjecture to try and push for something.

I also doubt anyone has leaked the full list out there. No one called joker at all, so if brave was originally dlc one you would think insiders still would know dlc two. Considering the rumblings of a square rep, Steve, and even lyllod by some leakers.

So if people were out here claiming to know around 3 possible dlc choices, the fact that no one knew joker outside of 4 and 5chan posts of all things, just doesn’t add up to me.

I think dlc two will prove once again not to listen to insiders.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's just say I've seen how he handles other stuff and he doesn't exactly handle it well. This isn't the only time but the times I'm talking about are a hell of a lot more controversial

Would be helpful if you provided an example, I don't really follow this stuff too closely.