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What are you most excited about for E3?

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Diem

Diem

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「Hinata」 said:
Anyway, that's not entirely my point. My point is that LGBT reps in media can't be flawed. They can't be human. They have to be some perfect little doll that only serves to make the community look good, and it has the opposite effect. While there are a sizeable number of creators out there putting LGBT reps in their shows or whatever as a genuine show of good faith, there are even more out there who add them because they feel forced to by the current state of the world, and it shows in how those representatives are presented.

I'm just saying, the LGBT community has to get better about accepting representatives who are flawed, or else people are going to stop taking us even remotely seriously.
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That's the problem with creating a character founded on a principle rather than a personality or story. You focus so much on holding to that principle that you make the character fit that ideal rather than be a human, like you say, because they're not a character, they're propaganda. They're not coming from someone's soul and inspiration, they're coming from an artificial, black and white sense of "I'm going to push this message."

In real life, no one says "I'm going to be a symbol of [blank]" and forges their whole persona and life around that. People are just people, living their lives for their own reasons, each with their own virtues and vices. What they believe in, what their goals are, etc. don't magically wash away flaws and make them paragons of some idea.

So what I myself do instead in writing is I come up with the character, personality, and story first, and then as I explore and contemplate that story, I let the principles emerge naturally. I don't go "This character is going to be a representation of [X principle]" and then write them around that, but rather I just follow the character and the story, and as I do so, I discover what the principles and themes are, instead of artificially injecting them. From there I can explore the possibilities and weave things in here and there.

Some authors can pull it off by figuring out the principle first and character second, but that's not very common in my experience. All too often I see characters that are varyingly transparent in whatever agenda they're trying to promote, and not as something someone came up with because they were inspired or wanted to tell a good story.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Screenshot_2019-04-03-22-47-05~3.png

aaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAHHH
Dnzd9MSXsAAG_IB.jpg

what in the ****ing goddamn hell is happening rn

my brain

hurts
 
DarkAuraful

DarkAuraful

Torpid Dragon
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praline said:
I’m curious what some of you based your username off of.
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Tenebris because I really just wanted a name that had darkness associated in its meaning. Dark is my favorite element. I added Tyrant because... well it just sounded cool lol

I might end up changing that too even then. My previous username "DarkAuraful" didn't sound as original or unique as I thought it did years ago so that's kinda why I decided to drop it.
 
SnakeFighter64

SnakeFighter64

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Diem said:
That's the problem with creating a character founded on a principle rather than a personality or story. You focus so much on holding to that principle that you make the character fit that ideal rather than be a human, like you say, because they're not a character, they're propaganda. They're not coming from someone's soul and inspiration, they're coming from an artificial, black and white sense of "I'm going to push this message."

In real life, no one says "I'm going to be a symbol of [blank]" and forges their whole persona and life around that. People are just people, living their lives for their own reasons, each with their own virtues and vices. What they believe in, what their goals are, etc. don't magically wash away flaws and make them paragons of some idea.

So what I myself do instead in writing is I come up with the character, personality, and story first, and then as I explore and contemplate that story, I let the principles emerge naturally. I don't go "This character is going to be a representation of [X principle]" and then write them around that, but rather I just follow the character and the story, and as I do so, I discover what the principles and themes are, instead of artificially injecting them. From there I can explore the possibilities and weave things in here and there.

Some authors can pull it off by figuring out the principle first and character second, but that's not very common in my experience. All too often I see characters that are varyingly transparent in whatever agenda they're trying to promote, and not as something someone came up with because they were inspired or wanted to tell a good story.
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The problem is then, with the people who are currently writing the stories we consume, we will probably never get more than the barest amount of representation.

It's a very hard issue for me, because I want more trans characters, but there's no way to do that without wither forcing creators to do it or forcing them out of jobs.
 
KMDP

KMDP

Smash Legend
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12,199
Mythra said:
Gonna miss Hinata being an

「ＥＮＥＭＹ　ＳＴＡＮＤ」
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Ｍｕｓｔ　ｂｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｗｏｒｋ　ｏｆ　ａｎ　「ＥＮＥＭＹ　ＳＴＡＮＤ」！

Heh, Full-Width Alphanumeric is fun.
「Hinata」 said:
Anyway, that's not entirely my point. My point is that LGBT reps in media can't be flawed. They can't be human. They have to be some perfect little doll that only serves to make the community look good, and it has the opposite effect. While there are a sizeable number of creators out there putting LGBT reps in their shows or whatever as a genuine show of good faith, there are even more out there who add them because they feel forced to by the current state of the world, and it shows in how those representatives are presented.

I'm just saying, the LGBT community has to get better about accepting representatives who are flawed, or else people are going to stop taking us even remotely seriously.
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And lo, descending from on high, the 「Ｍａｒｙ　Ｓｕｅ」 (help me I can't stop): the scourge of all writers everywhere, and the false Messiah of the disenfranchised and oppressed!

Jokes aside, there's a strange push and pull with LGBT representation. I'll try to explain as best I can. Apologies in advance if anything I say sounds offensive.

The LGBT community wishes for more representation of people like them, which is fair enough. However, as you say, oftentimes they want them a certain way, which limits the options for writers to do anything with them.

If the LGBT community wants the representatives to be "perfect little dolls", as you say, the only option would be for a writer to make them a side-character so the character doesn't have to do much that damages their image. However, this is an obvious problem.
Bringing the character into the forefront requires additional depth (which is most easily implemented with flaws), however, this also causes problems for a variety of reasons (having flaws makes the character imperfect and many writers aren't of the LGBT community).

The fact of the matter is that, if you can't introduce unique, personal flaws to an LGBT character and have to make them "perfect", the "obvious" choice for the 'depth' of said character is their fight against oppression, which many writers are either ill-equipped for or otherwise uninterested in writing about.
 
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staindgrey

staindgrey

I have a YouTube channel.
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So when are we breaking out the "find ToasterBrains" jokes again?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
「Hinata」 said:
Anyway, that's not entirely my point. My point is that LGBT reps in media can't be flawed. They can't be human. They have to be some perfect little doll that only serves to make the community look good, and it has the opposite effect. While there are a sizeable number of creators out there putting LGBT reps in their shows or whatever as a genuine show of good faith, there are even more out there who add them because they feel forced to by the current state of the world, and it shows in how those representatives are presented.

I'm just saying, the LGBT community has to get better about accepting representatives who are flawed, or else people are going to stop taking us even remotely seriously.
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This'll probably be the one of the few serious times I break the Scott shtick I got, but eh, why the **** not.

I've kinda had this feeling for the longest time whenever my LGBT friends ask me about it, and for the most part, they agree with this sentiment. I guess the problem is truly how to go about it. IMO, Nintendo and how they view LGBT ideals -- and this also goes for female representation in games, too -- is the best way you can go about it, and that's "how can we implement that ideal/person into the gameplay and entirety of the game that can make sense?" If you ask me, just needing a gay or trans person just to need them kinda feels a bit disingenuous to the cause, and I think that with the mindset of weaving said ideals into the actual gameplay or method that makes sense within the game, while also treating them as actual people, at least how I feel is the most respectful and best way to go about it.

I think a very good example of LGBT representation would be Villa (and even Gerudo Town) from Breath of the Wild, because it felt natural and a part of the ethos of that part of the game, which I think, is a much bigger impact than just trying to fill a quota. I think Miyamoto's comments about it serving as a "natrual gameplay structure" definitely shouldn't be understated.

If we end up creating a gameplay structure where it makes sense for, whether it's a female to go rescue a male, or a gay man to rescue a lesbian woman, or a lesbian woman to rescue a gay man, we might take that approach.
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Hopefully I worded it good enough, I just got back from work and tried to be as respectful as I can on this topic while breaking my Scott shtick. :drsad:
 
SnakeFighter64

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SnakeFighter64 said:
Sailor Scouts Assemble!

Fighting evil by moonlight
Winning love by daylight
Never running from a real fight!
She is the one named Sailor Hinata Hinata !
She will never turn her back on a friend
She is always there to defend
She is the one on whom we depend
She is the one named Sailor...
Sailor @Cutie Gwen !
Sailor @Shishœ !
Sailor SnakeFighter64 SnakeFighter64 !
Sailor @Sabrina LeCutie
With secret powers
All so new to her
She is the one named Sailor Hinata Hinata
Fighting evil by moonlight
Winning love by daylight
With her Sailor Scouts to help fight
She is the one named Sailor Hinata Hinata
She is the one named Sailor Hinata Hinata
She is the one . . . Sailor Hinata Hinata !

Note: I don't know the show so I don't know if the personalities quite match.
Also, @praline and @Professor Pumpkaboo are Artemis and Luna
Someone draw this super-team!
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Hey, Raxxel Raxxel you up to the task?
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
ok so ya wanna write good lgbt rep huh

step one
don't write them as representation blocks

a lotta straight people do this but it's stupid

look at homestuck for example. preeeetty sure there's not a single straight person in that entire goddamn webcomic but it doesn't seem like pandering bc it's not. basically if you're gonna write gay people make them normal characters yeah

just like in real life just because they like chicks or ***** doesn't mean that they're any different then others

step two


sorry i need to come clean that was the only step in the process i misled you guys
 
Hinata

Hinata

Never forget, a believing heart is your magic.
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MY FINAL FORM HAS BEEN ACHIEVED

WITNESS MY TRUE POWER
 
Mythra

Mythra

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D

Deleted member

Guest
anyways now that he's gone lmao what a ****ing nerd toasterbrains was tbh

good riddance you know how close i was to kicking that dumb weeb in the ribs

who in the hell even plays xenoblade 2 that game sucks
 
Hinata

Hinata

Never forget, a believing heart is your magic.
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Seriously, though, big thanks to all the admins who helped me out with this admittedly unimportant issue. It was just something I asked about on a whim, I didn't expect anything to actually come of it.

Y'all are the best, for real.
 
Professor Pumpkaboo

Professor Pumpkaboo

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And please, out of respect for a characters canon, dont say they are trans/gay/ect in canon unless it is stated in canon. That included delibratly misreading something thatis canon or making up stuff
 
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