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What are you most excited about for E3?

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Idon

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Shishœ said:
It's really not hard to make a Persona game that centers around a group of oppressed people in a coming-of-age story that also relates to them discovering themselves but I guess people just don't want gays in their games
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Yes, that's precisely what we've been talking about for the past hour with hour paragraphs long explanations.
Thank you for summing it up so succinctly.
 
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KarneraMythos

KarneraMythos

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Idon said:
And that's beside the most pertinent issue...

Persona 6 aint coming for a long *** while.
We are at the beginning of the Persona 5 cycle, and judging from P4's cycle... it's going to be quite a while until anything resembling Persona 6 even gets considered.

Persona 5 R, Persona 5 S, Persona 5 M, and Persona 5 B are already in the oven.
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Don't forget about Persona 5 2, Persona 5 Guys, Persona 5 Nights at Freddy's, and Persona 5 Arena
kappa.png
 
Double K

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Idon said:
I can't see an entire JRPG's stories and characters focused on that.
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The core themes of Fate/Extra CCC are about love, sexuality and acceptance and a lot of the interactions on the true route are more poignant if you play as a female protagonist.


tehponycorn said:
I do find it ironic that you're saying LGBTQ people aren't defined by their identity (which is true), but then you want a game focused on LGBTQ people's identity. Seems like it could be a bit counterintuitive in practice.
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ahhh yabai
 
D

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SnakeFighter64 said:
What if the next guy to wright for Persona makes P6 entirely about LGBTQ issues in order to make up for the past sins of the franchise?
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Idon said:
It wouldn't work for a game like Persona.

If we're going the P3 route of "themes," it'd be something vague, but broad and understandable to everyone:
"death"
"truth"
"rebellion"
and the like.

Something like LGBT issues are more linear by comparison. At most it'd heavily play into a character's backstory and/or growth, but an entire game centered around that is unlikely.
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tehponycorn said:
You didn't. It's that just your post came off as incredibly entitled.

Yeah, an LGBTQ theme for Persona could work well, but I don't see how they could center a game around it.

Persona 3 is about acceptance of death, both your own and those of your friends

Persona 4 is about finding and accepting your true self

Persona 5 is about overturning a complacent society and creating change

Persona 6 is about...LGBTQ people?

Mind you, I'm all for proper representation of LGBTQ within media, but making it the central focus of a large game series, especially in response to a minor controversy, comes off as incredibly forced and hamfisted.
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Well put it this way, even most LGBT media isn't entirely about LGBT people, it's usually one of the many themes. Nightmare on Elm Street 2 for instance isn't explicitly stated to be about gay guys, yet there's so much obvious subtext of a gay man's struggles to the point it's often seen as a gay movie despite that at face value it's about a spooky guy who kills people in there sleep.

To suggest that a big game isn't capable of being LGBT heavy in theory, even when the rest of the series isn't, is pretty laughable. Unless you're suggesting that the big wigs and/or video game community wouldn't be happy with it, in that case I agree.
 
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SnakeFighter64

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tehponycorn said:
Okay? I don't see what you're going for here, other than pushing an idea for what could be a very good indie RPG game.

It's natural that a broad label like LGBTQ is gonna include a lot of different people. I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that the game doesn't have to be centered around LGBTQ, and shouldn't because that's too narrow of a scope for the major theme of a Persona game.

I do find it ironic that you're saying LGBTQ people aren't defined by their identity (which is true), but then you want a game focused on LGBTQ people's identity. Seems like it could be a bit counterintuitive in practice.
Click to expand...
While I see where you are coming from, I would argue that this actually generates the potential for a better and deeper story. Just because the issues we face can't be reduced to a single word that can only apply to us dosn't mean that what we go through can't produce a deep and compelling Persona narrative.
 
staindgrey

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Scoliosis Jones

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I have basically no input on the current conversation. But what I will say is, there are ways to include representation of LGBTQ, People of Color, and other oppressed peoples through the plot itself. Certainly.

I think the unfortunate part of the conversation is that social ideologies in some of our native countries may not respect the values of other countries, regardless of our agreement with it. I can’t say for sure that it’ll happen, but then again, i’m also not the best person to say.

As a straight guy, i’m all for making games more inclusive. But if they’re going to be inclusive, they should absolutely, unequivocally, make the plots the least generic as possible. If every plot of an oppressed person is, “Look at me, i’m X and i’m oppressed” it makes that character seem like one part of a larger group.

Just because people are LGBTQ it doesn’t mean every single person is the same. I mean, even my gay brother has been somewhat negative about bi-sexual people (which I find weird but also fascinating. Several of my students partake in colorist against each other based on their skin color.

No pun intended, but these sorts of things are never black and white. Everything is in the grey area, but that makes things way more interesting.
 
D

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Cutie Gwen said:
Before I go to bed, anyone wanna give me feedback, positive or negative on the Shanoa moveset from the last pages?
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It's pretty solid. I should remake my moveset for Alucard too. Alu, Soma, or Shanoa would all be pretty solid as a potential second CV rep.
 
Professor Pumpkaboo

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tehponycorn said:
Okay? I don't see what you're going for here, other than pushing an idea for what could be a very good indie RPG game.

It's natural that a broad label like LGBTQ is gonna include a lot of different people. I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that the game doesn't have to be centered around LGBTQ, and shouldn't because that's too narrow of a scope for the major theme of a Persona game.

I do find it ironic that you're saying LGBTQ people aren't defined by their identity (which is true), but then you want a game focused on LGBTQ people's identity. Seems like it could be a bit counterintuitive in practice.
Click to expand...
look, Im as Bi as anything in the world.... but I personaly dont want a game centered around just one group of thing.
 
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D

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if Geno gets in Smash I will literally sell my soul on Ebay

save this for later
 
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KarneraMythos

KarneraMythos

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SnakeFighter64 said:
While I see where you are coming from, I would argue that this actually generates the potential for a better and deeper story. Just because the issues we face can't be reduced to a single word that can only apply to us dosn't mean that what we go through can't produce a deep and compelling Persona narrative.
Click to expand...
My stance in this topic is that we shouldn't just stop at LGBTQ on its own. It's much better to integrate any character within that threshold into the setting in a manner that accepts them enough to be deemed respectable. Some of these boil down to accurately portraying the politics behind the oppression of LGBTQ versus wanting to portray the characters like they're no different from the straight/cis groups. As they say, you can't have your cake and eat it.

I just think it's way more engaging to put LGBTQ characters in situations that are universal to pretty much everyone's will to survive. You'd be doing the whole group justice if you write them as normal everyday teenagers who are just trying to overcome primal fears with the aid of family and friends (and in this case, I mean the whole spectrum). There are games that already nod at LGBTQ themes, but they never over-blow the tropes to an extent that it's all you know about the characters. Undertale does a pretty neat job at this, since each character has their own quirks that make them stand out beyond just "Sexually-confused Skeleton" and "Lesbian Fish!Pearl" to name a few.
 
D

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Uhhh, why is my hour count in Ultimate so high? Am I doing something wrong?
 
TMNTSSB4

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I have no idea what is happening and I am too lazy to go through all these past whatever amount of pages
 
DaybreakHorizon

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Shishœ said:
It's really not hard to make a Persona game that centers around a group of oppressed people in a coming-of-age story that also relates to them discovering themselves but I guess people just don't want gays in their games
Click to expand...
That's not the point I'm making. Please don't misunderstand a point and then make passive aggressive jabs as it.

It's a bit of a semantical argument, but I'm arguing that game centered around LGBTQ representation wouldn't work. A game that naturally explores themes that involve LGBTQ representation could work. I think Persona 4 does this well enough, with Kanji at the very least addressing toxic masculinity, if not homosexuality, and Naoto addressing the struggles of a dual gender identity (being one but wishing you were the other).
Prince Alucard said:
Well put it this way, even most LGBT media isn't entirely about LGBT people, it's usually one of the many themes. Nightmare on Elm Street 2 for instance isn't explicitly stated to be about gay guys, yet there's so much obvious subtext of a gay man's struggles to the point it's often seen as a gay movie despite that at face value it's about a spooky guy who kills people in there sleep.

To suggest that a big game isn't capable of being LGBT heavy in theory, even when the rest of the series isn't, is pretty laughable. Unless you're suggesting that the big wigs and/or video game community wouldn't be happy with it, in that case I agree.
Click to expand...
That's almost what I'm saying.

If done naturally, and in relation to another theme, I think Persona 6, or any game for that matter, could tell a compelling LGBTQ narrative. I have no doubt about that. But to focus an entire game solely on it and make that the most important thing about it, in a series that's dealt with compelling, philosophical topics like "death," "truth," and "rebellion" seems incongruent with the rest of the series. Double K Double K gave a good list of themes that could tie into LGBTQ representation and still make it feel like a Persona game, and there are plenty of ways it could happen.

I'm arguing against it being the sole, obvious focus. Not it happening at all.
 
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SneakyLink

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Do I smell the start of another Banjo vs Steve debate?

If so...

uh....

Professor Pestor for Smash anyone?
 
Mythra

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If Mythra gets into Smash I'll post a drawing of her naked to go out in a blaze of banned glory.
 
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D

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ShinyLegendary said:
No really @faygoshill , do not die.
You are my kin.
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its too late for me man

if elma gets in i will pass on into valhalla

greeted by the horns of elma gang

already i can hear them calling, but they get louder and louder as if they're telling me "oh god oh **** xcx music will be added in the 3.0 update therefore ruining one of the biggest things going for her oh god he can't hear us he thinks we're just blowing horns oh man he's hyping himself up too much" but im pretty sure it's just horns
 
Ramen Tengoku

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If a Rhythm Heaven character gets in, I'l write a 10 paragraph essay on why it makes me so happy...
 
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SneakyLink

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If a character gets into Smash, I'm gonna finish Viva Piñata Trouble in Paradise and get all the Rare Replay stamps from it.
 
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