Twin Christmas Parties 3+4 Mafia {The Matryoshka Scandal.} ~ Over! Who had the merriest Christmas? Who got lumps of coal?

[BarDulL]

@BarDull: Actually, I remember what happened pretty well wrt July's claim.

After July claimed here role modifiers, she just said that "and I guess because of my role modifiers Swords got redirected." However, she never actually said why her role modifiers would redirect me. If you read over her role modifiers, there's nothing there to suggest that July would have actually redirected me.

Whether or not you like it, there's a compelling interest involved when there's a clear discrepancy in what someone is claiming, albeit I'll admit that claiming Ascetic after claiming to have been forced to target another player is counter-intuitive and you're more intelligent than that. Still, I have theory crafted some ideas for why you'd do it as scum, specifically that you want to mimic a safe-claim role PM to a tee. We both know it's a massive reach, but I'm still playing around with the idea of Sword scum even if the idea is minuscule.

 

[BarDulL]

Talking with OS is pretty much pointless. He trusts Sword, but says Kary is Indy, even though Sword claims to have a Mafia result on Kary.

wat.

 

[Overswarm]

OS, answer this: How can there be Kary indie + 3 mafia with JTB's results? You're ignoring this point to death.

I've already answered it, you just ignored it and said "herp derp, I got a mafia result so he must be mafia". July was an invulnerable doctor that got poisoned too, bet she didn't ****ing see that coming.

If kary is hammered, flips indie, and the game ends and you say "How could this have happened?!" know that it's because you didn't listen to Overswarm.

 

[Overswarm]

Whether or not you like it, there's a compelling interest involved when there's a clear discrepancy in what someone is claiming, albeit I'll admit that claiming Ascetic after claiming to have been forced to target another player is counter-intuitive and you're more intelligent than that. Still, I have theory crafted some ideas for why you'd do it as scum, specifically that you want to mimic a safe-claim role PM to a tee. We both know it's a massive reach, but I'm still playing around with the idea of Sword scum even if the idea is minuscule.

Smells to me more like you're setting up the possibility of a swords lynch from what was previously a "guaranteed townie" role. Regardless of how logical your actions are (I agree, leave no stone unturned kind of thing), that's what it smells like.


Sworddancer, I need you to trust my judgement on this one. You're going blindly down a trail and don't have a plan for what happens next if there even is a next. I DO have a plan and it'll keep town in the game under any and all circumstances. Mafia have to kill Kary, not us. That's their problem. You're attempting to give them the game right now on a silver platter.

 

[BarDulL]

I'll legitimately order you $20 worth of pizza if that actually happens.

 

[BarDulL]

If Sword is Town, then he has nothing to fear by my questioning him toMorrow assuming we're both still alive (we should be).

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

There's no reason not to talk with him. I especially need to convince SOMEONE to lay down that final vote.

BarDull what do you think about OS? His reasoning for no lynch is ridiculous, yet so many things indicate that he can't be scum. He was targeted by a kill Night 1, seemingly poisoned. His push to safe Kary seems weird from a mafia stand point, unless he's trying to be WIFOMie as ****, and JTB's numbers indicate that OS can't be indie with three mafia.

Also, do you agree with me that no ascetic should be cleared at all, even if they are proven to have the role?

 

[BarDulL]

There's no reason not to talk with him. I especially need to convince SOMEONE to lay down that final vote.

BarDull what do you think about OS? His reasoning for no lynch is ridiculous, yet so many things indicate that he can't be scum. He was targeted by a kill Night 1, seemingly poisoned. His push to safe Kary seems weird from a mafia stand point, unless he's trying to be WIFOMie as ****, and JTB's numbers indicate that OS can't be indie with three mafia.

Also, do you agree with me that no ascetic should be cleared at all, even if they are proven to have the role?

I don't know how to explain what has happened so far with OS. If you truly are Ascetic though, then the only way you could have been redirected is if OS is some type of redirector himself with a mechanic that works similarly to Kantrip's investigation mechanic, or if someone is able to disable role modifiers.

 

[BarDulL]

No, even though I'm Ascetic, I am not clear. That goes for PJB as well as yourself.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I've already answered it, you just ignored it and said "herp derp, I got a mafia result so he must be mafia". July was an invulnerable doctor that got poisoned too, bet she didn't ****ing see that coming.

If kary is hammered, flips indie, and the game ends and you say "How could this have happened?!" know that it's because you didn't listen to Overswarm.

Reanswer it then.

There was at most 5 scum Day 5. We know that Ran and J were two scum. If there were three mafia, then it has capped. No room for Kary indy.

Explain how this is wrong.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

BarDull that wasn't even what I was asking about. -.-

What's your read on him? Your overall take? There's so much conflicting data surrounding him, and I want your take on it.

 

[Overswarm]

There's no reason not to talk with him. I especially need to convince SOMEONE to lay down that final vote.

BarDull what do you think about OS? His reasoning for no lynch is ridiculous, yet so many things indicate that he can't be scum. He was targeted by a kill Night 1, seemingly poisoned. His push to safe Kary seems weird from a mafia stand point, unless he's trying to be WIFOMie as ****, and JTB's numbers indicate that OS can't be indie with three mafia.

Also, do you agree with me that no ascetic should be cleared at all, even if they are proven to have the role?

This really is pretty simple.

Instead of thinking "who is scum" think "who is likely to NOT be scum"

Then look at the votes. I figured this out pretty ****ing quick and I don't know why you haven't picked up on it.

Pretty simple proof. If MAFIA IS ON THE LYNCH, MAFIA WANT THE LYNCH. There is no alternative. I trust JTB's results to an extent, but I'm not going to assume that he's not mafia giving us slightly edited results. If JTB is scum and he says "look, it's impossible" and comes in to hammer, we lose. Period. If someone was recruited or is a commuter or something and just didn't appear on his results and he's town and we lynch Kary, we lose, period.

We know Kary is independent despite your results because of the people voting for him or gunning for his lynch which is everyone but me. Mafia want the lynch, ergo town does not. The only difference is town doesn't know it and thinks its a sweet deal.

Simple decision.

If I'm right, and we lynch Kary, we lose.

No lynch can't result in a loss. Unvote, go for the no lynch, and we will get a whooooole mess of stuff cleared up for tomorrow.

 

[BarDulL]

Wait a minute.

This is confusing.

 

[Overswarm]

Reanswer it then.

There was at most 5 scum Day 5. We know that Ran and J were two scum. If there were three mafia, then it has capped. No room for Kary indy.

Explain how this is wrong.

JTB is town.

JTB is scum.

In reality A, we know that there is and has been a recruitment possibility.

In reality B, we know that he can mess with the results and be giving us false info.

/done

Both scenarios are possible given toDay's actions and given that everyone is in support of this lynch except for me I think it's a pretty clear indicator that mafia aren't on my side and thus must be on the side of the lynch.

 

[BarDulL]

OS has literally been spending most of this Day phase selling JTB's "there must be 4 scum" idea, and now he brings up the possibility that JTB may be scum.

mfw.

Also, I'd like to thank Kantrip for his time line post of this game.

 

[Overswarm]

Wait a minute.

This is confusing.

No it isn't. Look at who has voted and who has expressed interest in voting, and you'll see that everyone save for me wants the lynch. Because of this it is easy to determine that Kary is not aligned with mafia. Unless Kary is really, really, really bad town the only option available is indy. Given that JTB has said repeatedly "there's a recruiter", this supports that idea. Regardless of JTB's alignment, his results combined with today's voting actions have shown that a No Lynch is best for town.

If you look ahead, you'll know that town is forced to have a No Lynch by the end to get to a 3 man lylo considering perfect play. This simply moves the No Lynch forward to a more suitable, and safer, time.

If I'm right, mafia have to kill Kantrip. If this is the case it is in town's best interest to keep them alive.

 

[BarDulL]

OS, can you explain to me Kary's intent behind not just sticking to his Indy claim? Why would he switch to a traitor claim? Not that you being able to answer either of these things would turn my head away from Kary at this point, but I figured I'd humor myself to your theory for a minute.

 

[Overswarm]

OS has literally been spending most of this Day phase selling JTB's "there must be 4 scum" idea, and now he brings up the possibility that JTB may be scum.

mfw.

Also, I'd like to thank Kantrip for his time line post of this game.

There's a reason I didn't bring it up. Doesn't help much if you know scum must be lying if you can't lynch them, and I didn't want JTB as an option today anyway.

Pieces starting to come together?

 

[Overswarm]

Alright, I'm out for a little bit doing some Christmas stuff. Don't hammer while I'm gone.

Preferrably, unvote so someone else can't.

 

[BarDulL]

The pieces aren't coming together, sorry mang.

 

[BarDulL]

There's no reason not to talk with him. I especially need to convince SOMEONE to lay down that final vote.

BarDull what do you think about OS? His reasoning for no lynch is ridiculous, yet so many things indicate that he can't be scum. He was targeted by a kill Night 1, seemingly poisoned. His push to safe Kary seems weird from a mafia stand point, unless he's trying to be WIFOMie as ****, and JTB's numbers indicate that OS can't be indie with three mafia.

Also, do you agree with me that no ascetic should be cleared at all, even if they are proven to have the role?

Bus Driver. I think the answer to this is a Bus Driver.

I don't know. I'll get back to you on this later once I sort it out in my head.

 

[BarDulL]

If OS is mafia, he's trying to set himself up as being too damn obvious and is pulling some serious WIFOM bull ****. Fact is, is that it doesn't really make sense for him not to want to hardbody Kary at this point. We both know this. His M.O. involves trying to prevent the Kary lynch when Kary is confirmed scum. Wat. He trusts you, but doesn't trust your result. Wat. He trusts JTB's numbers, but then he refutes JTB's numbers when it doesn't work in his favor. Wat.

His hard tunneling is unrealistic in the face of the facts as well as hard claims. Even I have to turn my head when three people have guilties on Kary. OS hasn't.

I'm working on my Bus Driver theory right now.

 

[BarDulL]

The only other thing it could be is that OS is being extremely stubborn about this almost arbitrarily. @_@

Bleagh.

 

[Circus]

I apologize for my absence toDay. Between work, getting sick, and last minute Christmas shenanigans, I've just been off-my-*** busy this last week. To be honest, I wasn't even planning on logging in today; I was just going to try to catch up as much as I could before work. But then I noticed that it's deadline day, so I figured I didn't really have time for that.

Someone catch me up. What I've gathered is that Kary is still the play (obviously) but we have no one to hammer him because OS is a crazy fool or genius scum or something and neither JTB nor PJB are around. Do we have a plan for Night Actions? If they've been expressed somewhere, then I'll read them eventually since I'll catch up on this Day properly over the Night phase, but if not, then we should really decide on something firm now.

I personally think that both Swords and I being on Kantrip is the most effective use of all of the investigative abilities. What really needs determining is who Kantrip is going to investigate.

 

[BarDulL]

2 hours and 15 minutes until deadline. Just catch up later Circus, Kary is either do or die at this point anyway.

 

[BarDulL]

Actually, your mini-analysis is pretty spot on.

Someone needs to hammer Kary foreal.

 

[Circus]

Well, this is stupid-dumb. I didn't think we'd actually be in danger of defaulting to a No Lynch after catching scum immediately at the start of the Day. The scumteam must be laughing their ***** off at this.

There's someone viewing invisibly. JTB, PJB, if that's either one of you, you know what time it is.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Seriously guys, two hours left. Less'a go!

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Invisible lurker, I see you you.

By the power of a grayskull, you have the power!

Spoiler

to hammer

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

And he left.

The power! You have it? Go?

 

[Circus]

Welp. I have to work in 20 minutes, so I really can't stay any longer. Hopefully someone decides to be the hero in the next hour or so.

I want to see a body when I get back tonight.

 

[BarDulL]

-_____________________________________________________________________-

 

[BarDulL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY

 

[Kantrip]

Overswarm: "Hey guys look at everyone supporting this lynch Kary can't be mafia obvs lolol"

**** you Overscum

 

[Kantrip]

If Overswarm is, by some illogical miracle, town...

He has thrown the game, and has been doing so since Day 1.

If he is scum, I want it to be known that he's still not doing a good job. No one believes his **** and if he gets his way toDay it's because of inactives and not because of anything he has done.

This "Kary has to be indy" idiocy is simply the stupidest thing I have ever heard, coming from someone I once thought to be a logical thinker. I've heard stupider things, but they've never been reinforced with this much stubbornness. Plain and simple, if Overswarm is NOT scum I'm probably going to be avoiding playing in games with him in the future if I can help it. That or ignoring him and encouraging others to do the same.

 

[Kantrip]

I've already answered it, you just ignored it and said "herp derp, I got a mafia result so he must be mafia". July was an invulnerable doctor that got poisoned too, bet she didn't ****ing see that coming.

If kary is hammered, flips indie, and the game ends and you say "How could this have happened?!" know that it's because you didn't listen to Overswarm.

Yeah but we know why July ****ing died.

Her action didn't go through (meaning she wasn't invulnerable) due to her targeting an Ascetic (Sworddancer.). If you had actually read July's role claim you might know that that's how her Switch-Doctor worked. She's only invulnerable if she succesfully targets someone.

Meanwhile, you have absolutely nothing that supports your wild theory, nor anything to even explain why you think it's an option.

 

[Kantrip]

When you have a 100% scum player on your hands that you could be lynching, that is NOT when you "No lynch because you need to eventually."

God ****ing ****.

**** you OS. I'm out. I really hope someone hammers, but if not I'm dead anyways so cool. I'm going to be on one of OS or JTB toNight, target me if you want, good luck town.

 

[BarDulL]

There is absolutely no reason why this lynch shouldn't go through unless we're dealing with 4 scum. Whoever is the last town member needs to seriously get on and hardbody this dude.

 

[Kantrip]

If it's OS that won't happen.
If it's someone who isn't going to be here that won't happen.

What if the original team was OS/JTB/Joker with Kary traitor, and OS became indy N1? Then we've been ****ed all along.

 

[BarDulL]

It's possible considering Town went through three lynches and an alignment switch. :/