Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Whoo thanks there Sherlock.
Real quick:
Who said I dislike him? I mean I do dislike his play but he's a town read of mine.
That's something I was thinking about but I was willing to pass it over because I feel Ran is Town and I'm 99% on Circus scum. Unless there was some bullshiz alignment change (gorf I hope not) then I'm comfortable with just assuming J is legit.
I wanted J and Bardull to claim before me because they were the only two players in the game who I had investigated who are not dead (BRB) and hadn't already claimed (JTB). I was not trying to push a lynch on whoever I could. It's just that my role is only even capable of being useful if I can catch someone in a lie. If I had claimed my results before my targets claimed, then they could have adapted their claims to what I had already said about them. I would have been a fool not to fight for the claim order I wanted.
I've already answered this. All of it. Recently.
He does that as town too. The point is that if we shoot JTB and we're wrong, THAT'S ****ING GAME, MAN. You want to bet the game on a player who you literally just called "flat null." A flat null that you are apparently content to just kill instead of pressure or question. I mean, are you kidding me? This is why no one should be listening to you.
That's one way to frame it. A less misleading way to frame it would be to say that Swords is the only investigative role that has claimed that role modifier. Bardull and PJB have both claimed it, but neither of them are investigative roles. It is telling, however, that you are resorting to speculation like this to try to cast doubt on my slot. You have nothing else now.
No, I never crumbed my role. How would I? I'm not just a Cop who gets guilties and innos; I'm a Cop who gets specific flavor information, and my role title is the exact opposite of self-explanatory. Not to mention the fact that I had no results to crumb on D2 since my N1 action failed, and there was no D3, so my first opportunity to crumb would have been yesterDay. What would you have expected me to say? "J sure is manly, but he doesn't seem all that academic. Sure would be weird if his claim differed from that...." Then hope that you guys could figure out what a "Yaso-Cop" does on your own if I ever flipped? That would all have been a huge waste of time. My role is only useful if I'm alive to explain it, so there's no reason to crumb.
The first half of this paragraph just isn't true. I selected Bardull and J because their claims were the only ones that mattered to mine. I didn't care if I went before other players, and even offered my name and role title early in compromise. Also, Swords' claim proves my ability and my target. At least for one Night. He saw a second investigation on J on N3. I AM THAT INVESTIGATION. If I were not that investigation, I would not be able to get away with claiming to be so, because whoever actually investigated J would be countering me. But they're not, because I'm it!
Publicly or privately? Because if it's the latter this turns into a "do I trust you or not".Sworddancer said:
I hate how illogical everything you say is. It's like every post of yours is "here's what I believe, so here's how things would have be to support it, so that's how it is".Bardull said:
I don't understand why people say stuff like this. Just answer the question. Not hard.circus said:
Ok this is a first. I don't have reasons for my reads, thus I'm scum? You are the first person to make this claim, because everyone else has been saying "He's giving us too much reasoning for his reads. It reads like he's trying too hard."
You're right. I could say that reviving the indy would have complicated matters for the mafia and I do. Because it would have! Reviving a useless townie and then claiming the revival is a much safer choice for scum to make because it psuedo-clears one mafioso (which is all they need to win) as long as no one thinks about it too hard. Bringing back the indy is just asking for one more way things could go wrong.
God, ****ing thank you. I'm glad someone is listening to me about this. I mean, really, what is the first thing you would think to do, with town motivation, if you were suddenly handed the ability to revive a dead player? Even if you were dumb enough to think that Kantrip was the best choice (July, Chuckie and Rajam ALL would have been better, and it hardly even takes a moment of thought to understand why), wouldn't you still think to yourself "hey, let me run this by the town first and see what they think? Multiple heads are better than one after all."
I understand that Bardul is interpreting things differently (or is at least claiming to). But he's wrong, and it's causing him to be wrong about my slot at a time when such a thing is extremely hazardous to our chances of pulling a comeback in this game, and I don't know how else to prove to him or anyone else why his interpretation is wrong.
Difficult to say. At first, I was expecting J to simply refuse to name his "mason" buddy so as not to incriminate a fellow mafiosi. However, doing that would also pretty much be equivalent to accepting my accusations against him, so Ran actually revealing himself is one way that a J/Ran scumteam could be trying to double down and get me lynched for the win. Having Ran claim to have masoned J is kind of a clever third option, as it leaves room for the option that Ran could be a town masoner who just happened to pick scum to mason. However, it is common practice for such roles to indeed die if they target scum, so if I'm leaning one way on Ran here, it is scum, yes. Just not concrete enough on that to lynch him toMorrow without a good deal of reexamination beforehand.
J always piques my interest, if I'm honest. If he and I both live long enough and I have a way of investigating him, I'll get around to taking it eventually, and that's essentially what happened here. A few things stuck out to me as awkward, such as his kind of confusingly stubborn position against Soup (I was pretty stubborn on him as well, but that's actually my normal play. J tends to dip his fingers into multiple pies and him-and-haw on all of it for a while). It also just seemed like he was holding a lot of people at arm's length all game to make sure they would be able to be pushed later if he wanted to. I'm specifically thinking of the way he basically held the exact same position I did on BRB when he hammered Chuckie, but threw FUD on me for suggesting BRB was probably scum. I ultimately decided to investigate BRB on N2, but then when N3 came immediately afterward and hardly any real new information had been gathered, I just decided to look at J next.
No. I asked for Bardull's claim because I felt it could help some actual, substantive setup speculation. When I targetted Jdeitz, I wasn't sure what happened to cause my action to fail. The odds of me just happening to be the one targeted by a roleblock seemed low, but I didn't know what else would explain the failure. In addition, Red Ryu's kill on PJB failed for reasons we still don't know, even though his Doc protect on OS (at least one of them) apparently succeeded. I felt that if Bardull didn't volunteer a reason for why my target failed, then that would be clear evidence suggesting a roleblocker. Since we still have no mafia flips to go off of, we need to get creative about how we go about narrowing down what kind of scumteam we're dealing with.
What the ****, SERIOUSLY?
There. It was like a page back.
Why do people keep doing this. All game.PJB said:
Speak for yourself home slice, didn't you throw your hands up in the air with RR? Talk about double standards bro.
I've questioned it, honestly. The degree to which you've ignored my rebuttals to your accusations very much fits your scum meta. As scum, you're much more stubborn, much more likely to do essentially exactly what you're doing right now. "Yeah, I guess there's other options, but I'm like SO SURE about this thing you guys." It's what you did in G3S #2 or whatever it was when you were scum with Nabe. It's pretty much the opposite of what you did in Mass Effect when you were town. I think a lot of your play, particularly toDay, contributes to the idea of you being scum.
I don't think you're town. You're like tunnel McGee and I still don't exactly know when the Circus hate started or what your actual case is. The more you post the less you say and it is taking you forever to say nothing.
Seriously, is anyone actually reading what I'm saying?
I did not question Swords' alignment (he's one of my strongest town reads). I just said, as you quoted, that if Swords' results are correct, then we know Red Ryu is telling the truth about at least having a protective ability on N1. I say this because we still have plenty of unclaimed roles, and Swords' N2 action has apparently already been tampered with. There's a lot we don't know about this game; acting like all Night actions are gospel right now is dumb. To be clear, I believe that Swords' results from D1 are most likely accurate.
"What should be questioning is whether or not RR is the doctor that protected OS?" No ****, that's exactly what I am questioning and why Red Ryu is the best lynch. I laid this out in my big post a few days ago and mentioned it again in my last one.
Bardull, at this point I'm just getting annoyed. I have not been vague about this. My read on July is based around the fact that she is one of the few people in the game who I feel I have been able to not only understand intent but feel it myself because it seems to match mine. It's the same reason Gheb was such a strong town read for me in Mass Effect even when other people were getting at him about stupid ****. His reads matched mine and the reasons he gave for those reads also matched mine. And he expressed them without wagon hopping or buddying me. The same is true of July in this game. Of all the players in this game, she was one of the only ones who reacted to Ryu's play toDay in a way that mirrored my own. Because I know my intent, I now also feel like I know July's intent. And that's one of the strongest ways you can form a read. I find her claim believable and none of the arguments I've seen posed against her make me question my read with any kind of seriousness.
I hope that's finally clear.
Because we were only about a day out from deadline when people started doing it, which is not enough time to form a strong direction in which to go? Because people decided to mainly jump on a player that they couldn't find any real concrete reasoning to jump to? Literally, it seems like everyone just woke up when Swords claimed his Night actions and screamed "Uh oh! Red Ryu might be town!" and then started clambering for someone else. The reason that's dumb is that anyone we try to lynch without a Cop guilty might be town, but for some reason people aren't willing to see that. They're not considering that July might be town, and is, in fact, more likely to be town than Ryu is.
I typically don't like being outright mean, but I'm pulling my hair out watching you guys being so stupid about this. We're not letting Ryu wiggle out of this lynch. I feel like Marshy here....
You are...I can't even...you're twisting my words so much!
I never said that Red Ryu might be too stupid to be scum—not once. I actually specifically attacked Overswarm for making that very assertion earlier in the Day.
I do not think Red Ryu is town. I genuinely think he is scum. The only difference now is that when I initially made my case on Red Ryu, I thought he was an absolute slam dunk. Now it's not as sure of a thing. That doesn't mean he's more likely to be town now. I think my Mafia Doctor theory is now the most likely theory due to Swords' claim, and lynching Red Ryu now is great, because a scum flip will basically condemn OS, who might otherwise get away clean without his flip. It also practically clears July with the way he jumped on her wagon the second he saw the opportunity; unlikely that he would do that to a scummate.
If he does flip town, which is going to be a possibility no matter who we lynch dammit, then that puts me at ease about OS and at least means we don't need to worry about the bitter WIFOM that we would have to deal with if we actually kept him in endgame.
Scum Doctor Ryu protects his scumbuddy OS. Scum Doctor Ryu attempts a gambit on PJB because he thinks it'll be an easy lynch. Scum Doctor Ryu is the one able to do this because, with our Vigilante now dead, scum has no reason to keep his role alive. Why does he do this on D4 if it's not, as far as anyone can figure, mylo/lylo? I don't know exactly, but I've been thinking he most likely thought it was mylo or lylo. You, as I recall, seemed to think it was lylo earlier in the Day; it's not such a farfetched idea. In fact, that would do a good job in explaining why he later just dropped his attack on PJB altogether, rather than simply dropping the "you survived my kill whyyyy" point and continuing to pressure PJB about his play. He ran in, guns blazing, without thinking things through, and suddenly found himself in a precarious situation, so he just pulled out cold.
This move from Red Ryu is objectively dumb. It's dumb if he's scum and thought it was lylo; it's dumb if he's town and thought PJB surviving a kill was legitimately anything to go off of. It does not somehow negate his scumminess out of sheer stupidity.
Red Ryu then proceeds to do nothing but sit on his claim for the rest of the Day and OMGUS the people who rightly attack him for what he tried to pull at the start of the Day. Sit on his claim and pout—that's what he did with this Day. Oh, and jump onto July's wagon in the most opportunistic way I've ever seen after voting for himself and going on and on about how town needs his flip.
I think Red Ryu is scum and would like to lynch him. If we had more time, I might be willing to look in other areas for a better alternative, but it was too late in the Day to try that a long time ago and mods don't grant deadline extensions just because we ask nicely (it'll be interesting to see if any scum asked for a deadline extension toDay in order to put on appearances). We're at the end of the Day, we need to make a lynch happen, and we could be wrong, but if we're going to be wrong on someone, I'd rather it be on someone like Ryu than July, no contest. Even if he does flip town, we at least have somewhere to go toMorrow. If we lynch July and we're wrong, that gives us nothing but a dead doctor. I don't get why you're bending over backwards to keep Red Ryu around. I want him dead.
Vote: Red Ryu
If Red Ryu flips scum, I don't want to hear another word out of anyone about me or July. If he flips town, I suspect I will become Undesirable No. 1, which would be terribly annoying in lylo, but I guess I'll have to find a way to deal.
Someone hammer.
What.
No, shoot J. Bardull's making me go gorillas but he isn't a safe shot. J is. If I'm the lynch and we don't automatically lose, then you absolutely have to shoot J toNight. No argumentation on this.
Believe me, I hate being in it.
Can you at least not sound scummy when you say things
I'm not even joking, it would help
because it reads so freaking transparent
Man OS, I have absolutely no clue what you think my scum intent is by me saying J has an otherwise bad role.
I'm going to have some hot cocoa and mull over things.
and crap like this. Let me guess, you're hoping he doesn't have his role PM open or his safe claim written down. -_-;;
