Twin Christmas Parties 3+4 Mafia {The Matryoshka Scandal.} ~ Over! Who had the merriest Christmas? Who got lumps of coal?

[BarDulL]

Pretty much yeah.

 

[BarDulL]

In all seriousness, he's going to get knocked next phase assuming Circus is defo scum (like I can't see Ran AND J being both scum, that's just impossible to me at this point...otherwise well played.) JTB is a fat null and Circus' investigation serves to relieve pressure off JTB. Circus also tried to swing away from a JTB lynch on D3, calling it "reckless" to swing at a null and instead aim for RR.

 

[Overswarm]

Bardull you are scummy as hell.

For one, if you're wanting me to shoot JTB and risk the game on it you should be pushing for his lynch. You should also be making a case.

You can't see Ran and J both being scum because... it'd take good play? I can understand saying that they're not good plays because of XYZ and other people are better plays, but when someone comes out and says "night actions says I got a guilty on them" don't you think you should at least look into it? Just a little bit?

I get that you want Circus to be scum, I understand that. He's been a careful player all game, it's a slot worth looking into. Understandable, but it isn't understandable to discount Circus' claim because of that anymore than it is to clear J/Ran on their claims.

But you've gotta figure that scum don't need a long-term plan right now. J and Ran can be scum together and claiming town masons that happen to die if they mason someone who isn't town. We wouldn't be given the opportunity to find out. Circus could be straight up lying about his result on J.

The lynch today is going to be J or Circus, there should be no qualms about that.

Luckily for us, J and Ran are linked closely so we can pretty easily determine that if one is scum, it is easier to find them in a lie. Scum masoning Town is not unheard of (see: FF6), nor is scum lying that he'd die if he hit someone non-town.

So here's what we need:

J: How did you mason Ranmaru? What language was used for you specifically? Why did you revive Kantrip today and not at the END of a Day phase? Why did you wait until Lylo to revive someone?

Ranmaru How did you mason J? What language was used for you specifically? What have all your Night Actions been, why did you use them on who, and what were all your results?

Circus What have your Night Actions been, why did you use them on who, and what were all your results?


To the people referenced in Ranmaru's and Circus' next posts about their results in a clear format so people don't have to hunt through 1600 posts, do these add up? Anything fishy about it?


Kantrip What language was used when you were revived? Can you confirm that this was not done during the Night phase and Nabe's mysterious extension?


and then Kantrip should do whatever it is he was going to do earlier. This isn't rocket science.

 

[BarDulL]

I'm pretty sure OS is scum with Circus. If he isn't, then I don't know wtf that dude is smoking.

 

[BarDulL]

Or maybe he really is Indy. O.o

 

[BarDulL]

OS I am seriously tired of you trying to lead the game when you're not in a position to do it. Your slot is sketchy as hell and all you've done is point the finger when you haven't given out any of your personal opinions or substantiated yourself at all. You essentially have no credibility to your name with several wrong mislynches and it comes off as pure ignorance for you to keep up the "I'm gonna lead town" act.

Also, you haven't given your opinions on any players so far outside of Rajam/Chuckie/RR, all three of which were Town when you said they were scum, all the while not giving reads on any other player. You're playing it safe and attacking players when they mess up while trying to set yourself up for not getting lynched. GROSS. Why don't you give opinions on every player thus far with some legitimate substantiation?

 

[BarDulL]

Actually you did say I was scummy because I want you to vig JTB, but how the hell is that scummy? JTB is flat null and is intentionally lurking up a storm like he does in every game that he is scum.

 

[BarDulL]

OS I am seriously tired of you trying to lead the game when you're not in a position to do it. Your slot is sketchy as hell and all you've done is point the finger when you haven't given out any of your personal opinions or substantiated yourself at all. You essentially have no credibility to your name with several wrong mislynches and it comes off as pure ignorance for you to keep up the "I'm gonna lead town" act.

Also, you haven't given your opinions on any players so far outside of Rajam/Chuckie/RR, all three of which were Town when you said they were scum, all the while not giving reads on any other player. You're playing it safe and attacking players when they mess up while trying to set yourself up for not getting lynched. GROSS. Why don't you give opinions on every player thus far with some legitimate substantiation?

I just woke up so this was terrible post. Here's my rewrite:

What I meant to say was, is that you shouldn't be trying to lead Town after 3 WRONG mislynches. WTF are you doing? You're trying to put yourself in a power position so as to not be a potential play, but that in itself is scummy, especially since you've been trying to discredit J/myself all day and now you're trying to discredit Ran by saying that scum masons is a likely possibility. It's like you haven't even read Ran's posts or acknowledged Ran's ability use whatsoever. He friggin' told you what your modifiers were! He's also been Town all game! w-t-f is wrong with you?

Secondly, you haven't posted a full read list when asked, and it took you a decade to post your flavor for whatever reason. Feels like scum scrambling to find the right flavor claim when Akihiko is literally the only character that fits a back-up vigilante role. Why didn't you just out it right when you claimed back-up vig or when we were asking you?

You've given your opinions on various players but they have ALL BEEN WRONG. You've used bad reasoning for just about each and every one of them; Chuckie seemed like the obvious Inquisitor but you didn't ask yourself why Chuckie would actually play the way he did if he was the Inquisitor. I don't remember the Rajam case, I'd have to look at it. And then you pretty much policy RR on the grounds that his claim doesn't fit, but why would RR do what he did as scum? It makes no sense at all.

You're calling me scum for wanting to vig a slot that is dead weight which subsequently means he will ultimately kill us if he's Town OR Scum. We have nothing to go off of regarding him other than his bleagh claim and we can't leave that stone unturned. Asking you to prove your ability will actually cause me to turn my head into another direction, which is why I asked you to do it in the first place.

 

[Overswarm]

OS I am seriously tired of you trying to lead the game when you're not in a position to do it. Your slot is sketchy as hell and all you've done is point the finger when you haven't given out any of your personal opinions or substantiated yourself at all. You essentially have no credibility to your name with several wrong mislynches and it comes off as pure ignorance for you to keep up the "I'm gonna lead town" act.

what

WHAT

Your slot has been non-existent all game and suddenly in lylo Bardull comes in says "Circus is scummy" and asks for a claim, Circus claims a guilty on J, and Bardull says "let's lynch Circus" and "OS should vig JTB" despite the fact that if either were wrong this would be disaster for town.

I've made my stances clear on everyone I have a clear stance on and no one here can claim I haven't. What kind of idiot tries to simultaneously say that I'm not making stances AND say that I'm the sole cause of every mislynch?

You're confusing "not making stances" with "not making stances I like". Just because I'm not giving J a free pass or going after Circus doesn't mean I'm not playing the game. I think I've been pretty clear on both you and Sworddancer, both of whom I'm more concerned with. Circus will be dealt with toDay, either via J flipping town and me viging Circus or by Circus flipping scum. Our "opinions" on the slots amount to jack and only cause to muddy the waters. We're dealing with night actions, plain and simple. Circus claimed guilty on J via J lying about his role. I already asked the questions above to them that will give us most if not all the information we need to make a call.

Also, you haven't given your opinions on any players so far outside of Rajam/Chuckie/RR, all three of which were Town when you said they were scum, all the while not giving reads on any other player. You're playing it safe and attacking players when they mess up while trying to set yourself up for not getting lynched. GROSS. Why don't you give opinions on every player thus far with some legitimate substantiation?

How about you read the thread?

I'm also pretty sick of people thinking that I somehow muscled lynches through.

Red Ryu []: July, Kary, Overswarm, Ranmaru, Circus, Red Ryu
-----------------

Chuckie []: Overswarm, Jdietz43, Raziek, PrivateJoker-Brown, Kary, Red Ryu, Circus, BRB
Raziek []: soup, Sworddancer.
PrivateJoker-Brown []: Chuckie
BRB, Not Posting. []: Ranmaru
soup []: J

---------------------------

Rajam [10]: Overswarm, Raziek, Red Ryu, PrivateJoker-Brown, Ranmaru, Jdietz43, Chuckie, Kary, Circus, Le Bateleur
Potassium [1]: Rajam
July [1]: J
Raziek [1]: Le Bateleur
No Lynch [1]: JTB

------------------------
Your own slot was on 2/3rds of the lynches and on the one day that you replaced in, no one voted for anyone other than Red Ryu and he HAMMERED HIMSELF. July, who flipped town, is on the beginning of that wagon. No one else even started another wagon. No one else was being voted for that day at all. I didn't even START the Red Ryu wagon, I just joined it for the same reason everyone else did. Red Ryu's claim was ****ing bogus. Rajam messed up his guessing claim in a way that openly showed a guess was missing. The only "case" I actually made was on Chuckie and it was a good one.

Don't lay every one of those lynches on me like I somehow magically prevented everyone else from bringing up cases. No one else HAD a case, they'd just not vote or let it sit someplace random. On D1, the only people voting for someone other than Rajam are all voting on someone that has flipped town. If you even considered the single, solitary votes on those players as potential wagons we have a 100% failure rater, so don't even pull that crap.

You have a problem with lynches that go bad, you bring up the case and you tell me what was wrong with it as it is happening. Hindsight is 20/20.

Actually you did say I was scummy because I want you to vig JTB, but how the hell is that scummy? JTB is flat null and is intentionally lurking up a storm like he does in every game that he is scum.

Because you can't do math and you don't seem to realize that shooting Kary for the same reasons makes just as much sense.

The only person I'd shoot right now is Circus or J. This is pretty straightforward, really. We lynch one, shoot the other if need be. Worst case scenario we're back where we started toMorrow with one less scum and one less town who already used the revive.

 

[#HBC | J]

Quick-hit in between classes before final MT rehearsal.

J: How did you mason Ranmaru? What language was used for you specifically? Why did you revive Kantrip today and not at the END of a Day phase? Why did you wait until Lylo to revive someone?

Ranmaru masoned me. The title was "You have been contacted by Rise!" I opened the PM and it gave me a pm listing that I had been masoned by Ranmaru, I got the revive ability, and I maintained everything else about my role. I chose to revive Kanty today rather at the end because I felt that having someone here at the beginning of the phase would have been better and yeah. I just got the revive as a result of Ranmaru masoning me. I didn't have this ability until then. Plus LyLo would be the best time to use the revive ability even if I didn't have it till now because of the fact that it provides a good buffer.

This is also a side-note but the night phase extension was given because me and Ranmaru requested we have a couple more hours since he is busy with school and we just got the QT/info a bit late from Nabe.

Anyways, gotta run so hopefully I will have time to do something tonight but it is looking sketchy.

 

[#HBC | J]

Also @OS: Circus never claimed a direct guilty on me. He claims that I am lying about my character due to flavour that I have no clue on. He says my character's name does not go to this "school" we are at but that's about it. It's nothing conclusive to my alignment. It's more like a flavour cop deal.

 

[BarDulL]

what

WHAT

Your slot has been non-existent all game.

OS, you have 104 posts in this game. I have 173 posts in this game.

You need to reread dude. I have been here all of D3 and D4.

 

[BarDulL]

OS's big post

Man, JD infuriates me that he voted for those players, all of those lynches were awful and I would never have been on Chuckie/Rajam. All I remember about Rajam is that Sneakytako was being noobtown by claiming to know the flavor and expecting that gambit to yield results. Lynching Rajam/Sneaky for that was just unparalleled whackness.

Secondly, RR had no scum intent man, IDK why people were saying he did. Even if his claim was like wat*****, he wasn't making a LyLo play which is what I'm pretty sure is going on right now.

Anyway I'm ASSUMING Circus is going to flip scum because I don't see a J/Ran scum team, and if they are scum together, then kudos, but there's no reason to shoot J after Circus hypothetically flips scum unless this is all some kind of J/Circus/Ran set up bus attempt which I'm pretty sure it isn't just based on my reads of those slots.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

ok so i was just writing a post about how i was sure J/Ran were aligned, and what that meant by PoE and some assumptions etc., but J, you got the revive ability because Ran masoned you?

I need to re-read again so will back with something more later

 

[Overswarm]

I just woke up so this was terrible post. Here's my rewrite:

What I meant to say was, is that you shouldn't be trying to lead Town after 3 WRONG mislynches. WTF are you doing? You're trying to put yourself in a power position so as to not be a potential play, but that in itself is scummy, especially since you've been trying to discredit J/myself all day and now you're trying to discredit Ran by saying that scum masons is a likely possibility. It's like you haven't even read Ran's posts or acknowledged Ran's ability use whatsoever. He friggin' told you what your modifiers were! He's also been Town all game! w-t-f is wrong with you?

I've only had one wrong mislynch, and that was Chuckie. Everyone agreed with the case, it made sense. There weren't even alternatives.

Rajam made a scumslip as town due to his own mistake and got lynched as a result. Red Ryu's claim was bogus and didn't line up (and STILL doesn't line up, mind you), nor did his actions make sense, AND it was quirky given both mine and Raziek's role.


You know why I'm trying to discredit J/yourself/Ran?

Because suddenly in lylo three slots that have been sitting in the background all day really REALLY want a lynch and have claims at the wazoo that somehow are supposed to clear them all?

From a mod perspective I find it hard to believe that Nabe would bring in three, count'em, THREE confirmed townies all at once in any sense. That's pretty broken from a mafia perspective. J revives someone who had flipped town before != town. Ranmaru simply having an ability taht can see other's roles != town.

I don't know why you're giving Ranmaru a clear simply based on the fact that we know his ability works. Did you not consider that Ranmaru and I could be scum together at all? Why not? What are Ranmaru's other claims?

Secondly, you haven't posted a full read list when asked, and it took you a decade to post your flavor for whatever reason. Feels like scum scrambling to find the right flavor claim when Akihiko is literally the only character that fits a back-up vigilante role. Why didn't you just out it right when you claimed back-up vig or when we were asking you?

For the same reason J shouldn't have. Why do you think we're in this situation between J and Circus right now? Because J went out of order trying to earn himself town cred and pleasing loud voices.

I don't claim simply because you ask me to Bardull. I'll claim when it is appropriate, when it is useful, and someone I've seen acting this scummy doesn't even come close to convincing me. I find it funny as hell that you can't contribute anything to the game other than your knowledge of flavor and you're mad because my character fits the flavor of my claim.

Seriously. My claim solved Sworddancer's suspicions on how I knew there was a vigilante before soup's flip, Ran called out my role characteristics, now my character name matches up with the flavor, and despite all three of those things being good for you because you've given SD and Ran both strong town reads you still say "OS is fishy"?

This is why I have so much trouble trusting your read on Circus. You've been tunneling Circus for as long as you've been playing the game and you act like it's a new case, but it isn't. You're just piling **** on top of it and no matter what evidence comes up you don't change course in the slightest. He flat out claimed a GUILTY ON A PLAYER VIA HIS CLAIM and you haven't even attempted to verify it. You haven't done anything but try to continue your original case from a full phase ago.

You know the only reason I haven't voted J right now? Because Circus was a potential play for toDay and this smells like it could be a hail mary. Claim a guilty on someone, get them lynched, get a poison kill, you get lynched the next day. The only thing we need to determine is if Circus' ability is even legitimate. That's it. The moment we know if Circus' ability is legitimate or not it either damns Circus or it makes it an even playing field.

You've given your opinions on various players but they have ALL BEEN WRONG. You've used bad reasoning for just about each and every one of them; Chuckie seemed like the obvious Inquisitor but you didn't ask yourself why Chuckie would actually play the way he did if he was the Inquisitor. I don't remember the Rajam case, I'd have to look at it. And then you pretty much policy RR on the grounds that his claim doesn't fit, but why would RR do what he did as scum? It makes no sense at all.

Did you even read the game? Why are you acting like I'm the kingmaker?

You're calling me scum for wanting to vig a slot that is dead weight which subsequently means he will ultimately kill us if he's Town OR Scum. We have nothing to go off of regarding him other than his bleagh claim and we can't leave that stone unturned. Asking you to prove your ability will actually cause me to turn my head into another direction, which is why I asked you to do it in the first place.

What do we have to go off of you rather than your "bleagh" claim?

Seriously, what have you done?

JDietz was on both the lynches that you think were awful. You come in and you just sit there and do this during the Red Ryu lynch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmyJ1RVfnPE

Then you claim to be Ascetic too?

Let's see... mafia poisons, so you're immune to poison?

Sworddancer claimed ascetic. You claimed Ascetic. Pjb claimed ascetic.

J revived Kantrip and claims to be in a town confirmed mason with ran.

Well **** that's 6/10 that the mafia can't kill right there, 3 via lynch and 3 via NKill.

Translation: Something is up and I don't clear any of the ascetics, or J, or Ran, or even Kantrip (although to be fair I give him a large benefit of the doubt until J's flip) because there's no way in hell a mod would let 3 townies be cleared and 3 completely different townies be completely immune to being killed by scum. No way no how.

So what reason is there to not shoot YOU bardull? I'm not scared of JTB pushing a mislynch in the slightest, but you seem to be doing your best to push a lynch and ask for a vig kill when it'd only be bad for town.

You want me to use my ability to save my own skin? I already DIDN'T do that because I can do math at a 3rd grade level.

If J is town and Kantrip was revived as town? That means we have a leg up. Why on God's green earth would I say "Hey, we're ahead! We get an extra phase!" and use that as an opportunity to kill someone?

I'm a strongman. My kill goes through, period. If we mislynch today, I can kill the other. Done, we're back where we were. If I survive later? I can kill in a scenario where we'd normally have lost.

I'm not going to use my ability to attempt to clear myself when it could hurt town if I miss. If we get down to the wire, yeah, I'll shoot, but it'll be a town decision. The only way I'll snapshot is if I know for sure.

 

[Overswarm]

Quick-hit in between classes before final MT rehearsal.



Ranmaru masoned me. The title was "You have been contacted by Rise!" I opened the PM and it gave me a pm listing that I had been masoned by Ranmaru, I got the revive ability, and I maintained everything else about my role. I chose to revive Kanty today rather at the end because I felt that having someone here at the beginning of the phase would have been better and yeah. I just got the revive as a result of Ranmaru masoning me. I didn't have this ability until then. Plus LyLo would be the best time to use the revive ability even if I didn't have it till now because of the fact that it provides a good buffer.

This is also a side-note but the night phase extension was given because me and Ranmaru requested we have a couple more hours since he is busy with school and we just got the QT/info a bit late from Nabe.

Anyways, gotta run so hopefully I will have time to do something tonight but it is looking sketchy.

See, this is useful information. Why can't Bardull be more like you? Now to wait on Circus and Ran.

Also @OS: Circus never claimed a direct guilty on me. He claims that I am lying about my character due to flavour that I have no clue on. He says my character's name does not go to this "school" we are at but that's about it. It's nothing conclusive to my alignment. It's more like a flavour cop deal.

I don't now **** about Persona flavor either and, honestly, I don't care if flavor matches to a T or not. What I do care about is you claiming one thing and Circus claiming another. If you said one thing and it contradicts what Circus said, this is indicative of you being caught in a lie.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

and when I say 'because'... i mean there was nothing to do with your role that meant you got that ability... it wasn't a 'potential' or anything like that, Ran just gave you a revive...?

bbl

 

[#HBC | J]

and when I say 'because'... i mean there was nothing to do with your role that meant you got that ability... it wasn't a 'potential' or anything like that, Ran just gave you a revive...?

bbl

I had potential in my original PM so I believe had something to do with it in the beginning and it made sense with how things worked out. It was just "Ran gives you Revive". It was "You have gained a new ability!" Hope that makes sense.

 

[#HBC | J]

Woops, made an error in my haste to type that up.

It should read like this:

"It wasn't just "Ran gives you Revive." It was "You have gained a new ability!"

 

[#HBC | J]

there's no way in hell a mod would let 3 townies be cleared and 3 completely different townies be completely immune to being killed by scum

OS, what makes you so sure that the mafia's only option of NK'ing is poison? We have had multiple deaths every night but the night July died. However, didn't we have a night where no one died?

 

[Overswarm]

OS, you have 104 posts in this game. I have 173 posts in this game.

You need to reread dude. I have been here all of D3 and D4.

I don't post two line posts, use the multi-quote feature, and I sure as hell haven't been posting on only one subject. I know exactly how many posts you have. Your slot has still been non-existent. You have one defining thing for you and one thing only: Circus. That's it. It is so ridiculously one-sided that if we lynched Circus and he flipped town, I'd put it as equally good to shoot you or J even accounting for Circus' guilty.

Man, JD infuriates me that he voted for those players, all of those lynches were awful and I would never have been on Chuckie/Rajam. All I remember about Rajam is that Sneakytako was being noobtown by claiming to know the flavor and expecting that gambit to yield results. Lynching Rajam/Sneaky for that was just unparalleled whackness.

You didn't even read the first day. -_-;;

Secondly, RR had no scum intent man, IDK why people were saying he did. Even if his claim was like wat*****, he wasn't making a LyLo play which is what I'm pretty sure is going on right now.

What do you mean no scum intent?

Anyway I'm ASSUMING Circus is going to flip scum because I don't see a J/Ran scum team, and if they are scum together, then kudos, but there's no reason to shoot J after Circus hypothetically flips scum unless this is all some kind of J/Circus/Ran set up bus attempt which I'm pretty sure it isn't just based on my reads of those slots.

What about your read makes that the case?

I've been toying with a J/Bardull/Ran scum team. After JTB said that someone's alignment could change I thought to myself "ya know, if mafia could only poison, there was an independent recruiter, multiple doctors, multiple anti-poison roles, and it was a large game, 3 mafia with the ability to revive and recruit someone to their faction wouldn't be unhear of". It fits more balance wise than "oh, that's just how the game is". No evidence for it, but if J flips scum Ran goes, then you go.

 

[Overswarm]

OS, what makes you so sure that the mafia's only option of NK'ing is poison? We have had multiple deaths every night but the night July died. However, didn't we have a night where no one died?

Because the game revolves around poison and this explains absolutely everything in terms of night results save for sworddancer's claimed attempt on my own life. Given that Sworddancer is in a grey area to me, I'm gonna go with "that's why there hasn't been an additional kill every Night".

 

[Overswarm]

wait a minute


Ranmaru

Why did you ask Red Ryu if he had the Strongman characteristic?


I just caught this while re-reading whatever phase Red Ryu died on. You pressured him on that, and then moved to me. It didn't stand out at the time because I do have a strong man ability, but if you actually targeted me with an investigation to get that information, why did you ask Red Ryu if he had it?

 

[#HBC | J]

That doesn't sound right mathematical wise but that's for speculation when I have time. It seems to revolve more around the NKs with the about of normal doctors to posu-doctors there have been. However the aestic role thing is odd.

I believe Ranmaru has aestic (or whatever it is too). Don't quote me on it though, I'll get him in here to confirm whether or not he does. If Ranmaru does in fact have it, then that makes all of our investigatives claiming to have Aestic, but Circus which makes me even doubt him more. (not saying aestic = town, but it something I am toying with as an anomoly)

 

[BarDulL]

If Circus flips Town then it's probably GG, but I'm pretty damn sure Ran is Town or I'll eat my hat.

I'm not interesting in throwing walls at you unless it involves arguing about which of Circus/J is scum at this point. However, I'm going to make it clear that I'm not ok with you leading toDay and I'm also here to remind you that you're still a viable play *cross arms.*

Ninja: That is a really good question btw.

 

[BarDulL]

That doesn't sound right mathematical wise but that's for speculation when I have time. It seems to revolve more around the NKs with the about of normal doctors to posu-doctors there have been. However the aestic role thing is odd.

I believe Ranmaru has aestic (or whatever it is too). Don't quote me on it though, I'll get him in here to confirm whether or not he does. If Ranmaru does in fact have it, then that makes all of our investigatives claiming to have Aestic, but Circus which makes me even doubt him more. (not saying aestic = town, but it something I am toying with as an anomoly)

J, Circus claims that your character does not attend Yasogami High. KANJI attends Yasogami High, however because Circus says you don't he is either lying or you are lying about your flavor. At least one of you must be scum as a result of this since neither of you are retracting.

 

[Overswarm]

That doesn't sound right mathematical wise but that's for speculation when I have time. It seems to revolve more around the NKs with the about of normal doctors to posu-doctors there have been. However the aestic role thing is odd.

I believe Ranmaru has aestic (or whatever it is too). Don't quote me on it though, I'll get him in here to confirm whether or not he does. If Ranmaru does in fact have it, then that makes all of our investigatives claiming to have Aestic, but Circus which makes me even doubt him more. (not saying aestic = town, but it something I am toying with as an anomoly)

If Ranmaru claims Ascetic I'd lynch you in a heartbeat.

 

[BarDulL]

Ninja: That is a really good question btw.

I figured out the answer to this already. :|

 

[Kantrip]

I do not have the modifier J is saying all our investigatives have.

 

[Overswarm]

Thank you, Kantrip. To be fair to J, he merely suggested it as a possibility and as an oddity if Circus was the only one without it.

 

[Kantrip]

Did you elaborate on your other modifiers yet?

Also when did you receive your full role? N1? At that point did you already know you were a back-up vig, or did you only find out after soup's death?

 

[Kantrip]

Did Circus make any mention of his role (crumbs, anything) or his investigation results prior to this Day phase?

If he did not, I've thought about it and agree that he is scum.

With Overswarm who is refusing to elaborate on what 'Persistent' does. I already know 'Potential' means your role can change if a certain condition is met, so it's just the third modifier he is withholding from us. I hate his 3 mislynches, I hate his walls of nothing, I hate his role claim, I hate his withholding information, I hate his discrediting every ****ing thing someone says without actually having his own stance on the matter. Ran's strongman result forced OS to commit to the strongman backup vig claim and I doubt they are scum together. So scratch my J/OS team because J is regrettably town due to Ranmaru's confirmation.

Which makes the team Circus and Overswarm with some more buds.

Circus claiming that he had investigative results on Bardull and J (the two people Swords picked for last on the claim order) was a way to get Circus last on the claim order to formulate whatever safe claim he wanted to. Then he claimed he was actually roleblocked for Bardull but "still wanted him to have to be honest about his role". I think he was just claiming that and then would jump onto either Bardull or J as needed. He was already being opportunistic against J with the whole reviving me thing, so having a flavour discrepancy on top of that would just make it all the easier to get that mislynch.

tl;dr: My current thoughts lie with Circus and OS scum.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I'm withholding my decision on who to lynch until I reread Day 3 and Day 4, however I can already tell everyone that I'm deffo leaning towards lynching Circus, I just don't want to be rash. DON'T lynch anyone until then.

Anyways, catching up on modern stuff now.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

ok, thanks J

i was working under the assumption that J was a reviver before he was masoned, which essentially cleared him twice. if being a reviver and a mason were products of the same thing (being contacted by Ranmaru) then it was much more plausible that it could be fake/misleading.

to be honest i'm not 100% sold on Ran and J town but it's the explanation that makes the most sense, and it has the added bonus of kicking out a solid looking scumteam in OS > Circus > PJB/JTB so i'm prepared to sack up and roll with that. There's a part of me that's paranoid and saying that Circus/OS are playing off against their partners Ran/J to sell a mislynch down the line, but i'm too comfy with J being town and am confident enough he's aligned with Ran.

I'm not too fussed on the order toDay. Someone lay down the law and I think we can roll out from here. Ran/J claiming whatever they haven't would probably settle my mind, but I feel like this is more or less falling into place.

peace and

 

[#HBC | Kary]

wait that was supposed to be ika:
nvm
:D

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

When? It needs to happen soon and I don't see the hold up.

Are you kidding me? I tell you your choice to revive Kantrip was one of the worst possible options and you respond with "well, actually, it wasn't the worst option?" You're supposed to justify why it was the best, because it should have been. Telling me you could have brought back BRB instead is not comforting. Bringing back BRB would have had no potential to earn you surface level town points. Bringing back Kantrip did. And that's all it did. That's why it's so bothersome.

You're being a moron.

Circus, if J brought back someone like BRB back he wouldn't have claimed. That's the whole point. You can say that "J's just doing it for the town points," but that's to ignore the fact that if J was scum then it would have been much more efficient for J to bring back the indy and have town have to worry about that while mafia still stays strong (more or less).

You could agree that the indy would complicate matters for the mafia if they were limited to poison, but eh, you could also argue that Le would have been a good choice for mafia to bring back without the risk. You might also argue that scum might be limited to bringing back a town player, but that's making an extra assumption, and the more assumptions you make, the more unlikely it is according to Occum's Razor.

It is not my opinion. It is observably true, without even giving it too much thought, that you picked one of the least useful town roles to bring back. Chuckie could have made a poison protect and bought us an extra Day. Rajam could have jailed someone and stopped a kill from happening. What's the best case scenario from having Kantrip back? He managed to successfully get one result on a player on N1 who is hopefully still alive? Even if Kantrip does have a N1 result he could give us, it could be totally useless to us now.

This is not complicated. It is very easy to see why any of July, Chuckie or Rajam would have been a better choice than Kantrip to bring back. They had roles that could have helped us TONIGHT to block town deaths. That's useful each individual Night we have it. Investigative roles rely on gathering information, and Kantrip has been robbed of at least three if not four whole Nights to be able to do that.

Yes, I'm getting hyper about this, because you're sitting here trying to act like this wasn't a total waste of your ability from a town stand point, when it becomes clear that it was with a basic level of examination. You didn't even bother consulting the town on who we might want to bring back. You just picked Kantrip, claimed the revival and put your feet up.

Your claim, please.

Now then, I agree with your observation that Kantrip was not the best choice to bring back, but I'm not too sure if that I can call it scummy. It is however worrisome that J didn't consult that rest of the town first, so I will give you that.

And I call that dragging my name through the mud because you are clearly framing what happened with Red Ryu in a way that is misleading. It's not like I lynched him by himself. He had claimed a role that confused and concerned a lot of people, including but not limited to me. He then proceeded to sit on that claim and try to get another player lynched with on fault logic. He voted for himself multiple times. He jumped on July's wagon very opportunistically. There were loads of reasons to dislike Red Ryu's slot, and I was not the only one to think so. The way you keep wording this makes it sound like we had scum in front of us but I twisted everyone's arms into lynching Red Ryu instead, with nothing substantial to back up the play. That is not what happened, and I've explained why that is so multiple times now. You just can't accept it because you're stuck on one read.

I am not saying this to be mean to you. I don't like insulting people. I like you, Bardull, as a person. But you legitimately don't seem to be comprehending fundamental, practical mafia play here. That's what is making this so aggravating for me. You want me to stop "antagonizing" you? You want me to work with you? Then work with me. Stop distorting what happened yesterDay. Attempt to understand what actually happened and develop an informed read on my slot, rather than just locking yourself in your own echo chamber of reads. You are being shockingly inflexible right now.

Pretty much another reason for me to read through Day 4 again. I need to fact check what's being said now and see who I like more. Anyways Circus, if you're town, then I think that you and bardull are just not interpeting things the same way. You're state that RR's actions, his claiming, his jump on July, his vote of himself, were all scummy. Bardull's seeing the same thing as you but just interpreting them differently. Consider that.

Well, the first problem with this claim is that you're the pink elephant in the room; Chie literally has nothing to do with detectives and cop roles. Every town role has had some level of correlation with the character in question, i.e. I'm a Nurse and a "Doctor Enabler." Naoto (Kantrip) is a "Consulting Detective" and is a detective in the game. Dojima (Rajam) is actually the head of the murder cases in the game, hence Town Jailer.

The reason why you're the pink elephant is because Chie is a high school student that has nothing to do with being a detective. Absolutely nothing. She watches Kung Fu movies and hangs out with Yukiko, but that's the long and short of it.

Secondly, you're not using the right color from the town role PM when you highlighted "Town Cop Enabler." Rookie mistake.

Vote: PJB

Wth BarDull? This is . . . bad. Out of all the legit reasons to not like PJB, you choose to not like him over his flavor? Over him not using the right color? o_0 Don't try to outguess the mod. Nabe most likely took into consideration several factors when giving scum their safe claims. He might have given some bad safe claims flavor-wise, some good safe claims flavor-wise, all good safe claims, all bad ones, etc. Who knows? You certainly don't.

Btw I see how everyone ignores my request to talk about PJB. I see how it is.

Oh, I am also not claiming till everyone else has. I will be stubborn on this, Circus. You are the last one to claim and then I can do as such.

Why didn't you want to claim before him?

Circus claims his role and character and states he has a result on two players that requires those two players to full-claim before he will out their result.

This is when those players comply. Holy **** J.

@PJB: You didn't tell me what you think of Bardull.

I lol'd.

I believe Circus leaving and coming back is indicative of checking Private Messages, but I didn't think to look at his profile to confirm that.

@Joker: Is Bardull bussing you? Just curious bby

Also lol'd, and I see where you're coming from. The thing is is that my read on Bardull right now is too townie for me to consider this possibility highly.

Tomorrow. I am going to sleep but I am more than annoyed at the current time. Will be all cleared up though.

Normally wouldn't like stalling after Circus's incriminating claim but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were tired and had finals.

Need to put this down here because seeing j refuse to full claim after Circus's result initially gave me a bad feeling, so I need to put this down so that I don't forget my finals position on this in case of a reread.

 

[BarDulL]

Man, if J/Ran/Sword/Myself/Kary are Town, this is so godly because we're all on the same page and it's amazing. If I'm actually getting wrecked though, man, seriously, good stuff to you all, and I'm going to drink myself to sleep.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Circus: Do you think that Ran and J are scum together?

On N3, it was actually a toss up between J and Ran. They had both peaked my interest on the first two Days of the game, though I would honestly have to go back and read to remember exactly why. Although I'm always a little wary of J in every game, which is why I ultimately went with him.

Last Night, I picked JTB because he was still one of the biggest unknowns in the game. It was between him and Kary. Kary ultimately seemed just a little more forthcoming with reads than JTB.

Why did J and Ran "peak" your interest? Go into that specifically.

..... I really don't think I should dignify this with a response, but I checked and it says SeaGreen. I typed Lime, because I honestly didn't think I was gonna get calked out on something as absurd as "omfg that's the wrong color! scumslip!".

and when people stop reaching against me, I'll stop saying that people are reaching.

Swords is the only who has tried to make an actual case on me, and the whole thing is centered around him not liking my conservative choice of wording. While I'm thinking about that
@swords. I wasn't calling you out for being scum, I was calling you out for being useless. You're everyone's strongest townread, yet all you have to push with is "I don't like his choice of wording". I'm not even being non commital, I have stances. My suspicion of J has not come out of nowhere, go reread. I started getting suspicious of J almost immediately after I gave him that townread, when he started calling me scum for knowing what a strongman was. I simply changed my mind, without putting it in a neat little list.

@Bolded: What is up with this mentality that because I'm basically cleared I need to lead? OS said nearly the same thing earlier. Yes, I guess it would be a good idea to let someone who reasonably intelligent and pretty much cleared (me) to have the final word, but I'm not "useless" just because I'm not. I'm simply playing the way I always do and I apologize if I don't adapt the optimal playstyle if it doesn't dawn upon me to.

Anyways, don't underestimate the power of word choice. A tip for your town play (if you're town now or for the future): Pay attention to subtleties. If you're scum you're obviously not going to TRY to look scummy, and having stances is "How to not look scummy 101." In other words, if you're scum then you're OBVIOUSLY going to try to have stances, thus you having stances by itself doesn't mean anything. Rather or not those stances are genuine (which I seriously question in your case) is what's important.

In your case, it's the "subtlety" of your word choice that rings alarm bells for me.

I will however, concede that I didn't communicate my concern with you as effectively as possible. Kantrip probably said it best that you're reads look forced, and thus not genuine. I still hold that you're reads come off as somewhat cautious and generic, but those problems are probably just the byproducts of the main problem, which is that you're struggling to come up with material.

Btw, BarDull's point still stands. You only seem to come into thread when you're being attacked. Yes some of those attacks are reachy, and yes it's natural for people to be most concerned with defending themselves, but you really should be taking more of an incentive to scumhunt on your own accord.

I didn't know that your read on J was changing overtime, so I'll concede that point to you.

Oh no I have no one to talk to. Everyone's storming out and slamming doors.

How many times did Bardull say he disliked the Red Ryu lynch in proportion to how many times he tried to do something about it?

Do we have any more indication hinting at poison kills than the presence of protectives alluding to poison? Have we figured out which kills came from which sources based on anything?

Someone tell me what's clearing OS through mechanics please.

We're going off the presumption of a 4-man scum team with Inquisitor + Inquisitor's Aspect to account for the 6 scum presents, right?

Wrt OS: Night one I voyeured OS and saw that a killing role visited him. Day 2 Soup strongly implied that the vig shot Le, plus the vig had all the reasoning in the world to shoot Le, while the mafia didn't and the inquisitor couldn't have, since that would mean that the Le was protected. Thus it's most likely that the mafia targeted OS Night 1.

Extra indication of a poisoner besides from Chuckie's role would be JTB's role plus that fact that July died at the end of Night 4 but I saw no one visit her that Night, thus implying a poisoner.

The present thing is just popular flavor speculation, but it seems to make sense from a balance PoV plus it lines up with JTB's role, so yeah, most people are going with that

For the record, I still think OS is scum.

Potential explains why no kill occurred Night 4. His role changed sometime between when he was investigated and Night 4. Maybe he turned into poisoner, or he just lost his Strongman modifier? I don't ****ing care. What matters is that NA results heavily incriminate him, his play is gross, and people are CLEARING him because he posted some walls "explaining" why he's clear.

People saying "he was targeted by a kill from the inquisitor and a protect N1 so he should have been converted", my answer to that is can Persistence not be an immunity to changing alignments?

His play is gross, the mislynches he has led are gross, and his interactions with J heavily favour both of them in a scumteam together. Both OS and J have Night Actions incriminating them at this point, too.

inb4 OS is the mason partner. He is, isn't he J? That would line up my N1 result like you can't even believe

The "potential" thing is the one thing that bothers me about OS, but he's not a priority of mine now (obviously).

Agree with you about his play but yeah already went over that.

So OS is discrediting Swords AND Swords' result on him after calling him clear. Rather than call Swords scum he attacks him full-on but says "you're still town because of Night Actions".

In his analysis he goes on about 4 kills (poison, kill that was apparently on him, me dying, Le B dying).

Soup shot Le B.
Inquisitor shot Overswarm.
Overswarm shot me.
Poisoner isn't a thing yet.

This is what I believe actually happened. The suggestion that there is 3 anti-town kills and a pro-town kill (with recruitment possibilities mixed in) is absurd. But OS committed so hard to a Swords townread (and Swords is town).

Why do you believe this actually happened? What evidence do you have?

The evidence for a poisoner since the beginning just lines up with things really well. Explains kills Night 1, and why OS didn't die at all if he was targeted by Raz, a jailkeeper. Kills Night 2 line up. No kill Night 3 is kinda a question mark, but eh, could be an ascetic. No one visiting July Night 4 but her still dying lines up. So yeah, it just generally lines up with a bunch of stuff which makes it easy to accept.

The only thing that doesn't line up with poisoner since the beginning is Sword's claim I was hit by a night kill which is exactly why my eyebrow is stuck in ^ that position.

I said that you were hit by a kill. Remember, I'm a "weak" voyeur cop, I can only see generic actions. I'll see poison as a "kill," not as "poison," Nabe confirmed.

@swords; I don't really want to lynch PJB today, i'd rather lynch say Circus, i'm not really feeling the case against him right now.

I was townreading him from his early game play, and thought that his response to RR's claimed shot was definitely in line with how town PJB would play. With that said, there are a couple things from your argument that stick out to me as fishy. In my opinion, PJB is generally over-defensive and more or less useless (stating the obvious, etc.), so it's the things he does aside from that which catch my eye. For instance, the amount of detail he goes into when making his reads seems kinda forced. looks like he's trying too hard to justify his reads.

Right now i'm giving him a provisional town-read, as he's one of a few slots that has to have scum in it somewhere, i'm just not entirely sure where yet. On that subject can you tell me what your current read on Ranmaru is (or direct me towards it if it hasn't changed recently)

not really feeling this today so that's all for now

Meh. No matter what you're alignment, I imagine that you're giving you're honest opinion on PJBm so I'll trust you on that. Thanks for putting the scuminess of PJB into perspective though.

What did you mean by the bolded btw?

Wrt, notice how he pushes Bardull AND J to claim before him. Then, he states that he has a result on only one of them, and was roleblocked on the other. This, is bull****. This seems like he was trying to push a lynch on whoever he could, and just say he was roleblocked with the other. He really didn't have a reason to be pushing Bardull. He says he wanted to see if we were dealing with a roleblocker, but I don't see how that would actually determine if there was or not.

Agree that it's weird how Circus wanted BarDull's claim despite claiming to have been roleblocked on him. Evidence that Circus is scum looking for the final mislynch.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Town:

Kary
Me
BarDull
OS
Kantrip

Question marks:

J, Ran, Circus (leaning towards it being Circus cus of more damning evidence and occum's razor).

Other scum: Everyone else due to PoE

The thing is is that even if Ran and J ARE scum my town reads aren't really effected. I might consider OS a bit more if Circus is scum but eh.

Anyways, need to study, so I'm leaving this catch up incomplete for now. Still feel comfortable with the above reads despite this.

Later.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@BarDull: What did you think of J's willingness to still go through with a RR lynch in the face of my NAs?