Twilight of Smash 5 - Ottawa, ON - Jul 5, 08 Results

[Divinokage]

Counter with Marth and Ike breaks the tornado, also Ike Fair.. but i guess you just need the correct mindgame.

 

[BigRick]

Sadly no, the spores that come out of toad aren't high enough priority to knock MK out of his nado. Trust me, kingace watched me relentlessly try every move I had but just couldn't cut through it. I just put down my controller haha.

Exactly.

There's definitely tons of moves that can beat the Tornado, but I'm also pretty sure that a few unlucky chars can only run away from it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Just use a high priority move anywhere and it hits him out of it. Aim for the top of the tornado with a medium priority move, and viola, he's out. It's really not THAT broken. Calling it cheap seems kind of scrubbish, no offense. I don't know every single move that will knock him out of it, but that's where individual practice comes in. Figure out what your character's options are, if any.

and for the characters who lack those?

also, you can all stop defending tornado now, it's a broken move. no good metaknight will say otherwise. it shuts down so many options of the opponent, and while it can be countered by ridiculously high priority aerials/tilts (with spacing; you need to space), for what it does it's still broken. nearly safe retreat/approach, great on recovery, spammable in a bunch of matchups, covers a lot of options during chases if they have the chance to air-dodge (which happens a lot), etc. just because some specific (situational) moves beat it does not infringe that much on its level of broken.

it's comparable to fox's shine or sheik's f-tilt. could they be beaten out with perfect spaced randomness? yeah, sure. but it was awkward, hard, and for what they did it was pretty **** good. even if random stuff did beat them out it was certainly not enough for people to stop using them. same principle applies to tornado.

 

[Niko_K]

^^^ Agreed. If anyone saw my matches with KingAce I think you would've cried a little. I know I did.

 

[KirbyKaze]

if i was watching brawl matches i think i'd be crying no matter what was happening

 

[TestRider]

if i was watching brawl matches i think i'd be crying no matter what was happening

There was barely anyone watching the matches, towards the end of the tournament the place was almost empty. Heck I had what was probably the most exciting Brawl match of my life against Chester, and there was maybe 5 or 6 people watching. Basically no one gave a ****.

 

[Niko_K]

Lets start playing competitive mario party

 

[Divinokage]

There was barely anyone watching the matches, towards the end of the tournament the place was almost empty. Heck I had what was probably the most exciting Brawl match of my life against Chester, and there was maybe 5 or 6 people watching. Basically no one gave a ****.

Hey hey, I watched your match, it was epic. =D

 

[infomon]

Lets start playing competitive mario party

...
I'd actually be up for this :D

 

[Niko_K]

Well when Im back in Ottawa this weekend we can get together for some Mario Kart and Mario Party...at IvanEva's apartment??

 

[Fogel]

GG insomnia, guess I'll post some shoutouts.

Cam, thanks for the tournament, very well run as usual. Stop blaming yourself for what happened, it had never happened in our Smash tournaments before so it's not like anyone could have predicted it anyway. By the way, calling it "cheating" seems unfair to me; nothing in the rules said anything about it, and besides such a rule could never be enforced. Maybe it's because I see this happen all the time in Magic tournaments, but frankly I didn't give a **** about it. If you still want to stop it from happening, hiding the brackets should be sufficient.

The fact that I didn't have anything against it in the rules is one of the reasons I couldn't really do anything to stop it, unfortunately. Part of the reason I made my post is so that other Tournament Organizers are made aware of the issue, and can explicitly stop it if they want to via rules.

So now we're cheaters?
What the hell, we dont deserve this.

Its a little much to call something like this cheating...

Your comment is fair, it wasn't against the rules so I can't really call you cheaters. However, most tournaments for most sports/games would not tolerate that kind of stuff. Also, in the future, I hope that other smash tournaments don't tolerate it either.

... especially seeing as the truth is the top 2 were going to be Toronto anyway...
If you think this is the only reason we won you must be blind.

Your argument counters itself; if you would have won anyway, why did you set up forfeits like you did? If you could beat anyone else in the tourney at will, you guys shouldn't have cared about who you were facing next. The only reason to do what you guys did would be if you thought you had a chance of losing.

I don't see why people are still trying to make it into something, personally I couldn't care less if 2 people who are in a bracket with me forfeight to one another, thats really none of my business.
I feel thats putting the blame outside yourself, and on other people. Stop the escape-ism please.
What should be important to you are your matches and winning them, not other peoples. (also you especially shouldn't be worrying about it if you're not in the bracket at all.)
I absolutely honestly believe in this.

Again, your argument counters itself. Someone who honestly believed in what you just said wouldn't get together with their crew and collude to set each other up so that they had the best 'chance' of advancing.

For instance, you were one of the first to take the 'fall'. This suggests that it was decided that you had one of the lowest chances of beating the non-Toronto/Niagara smashers compared to your other crew members. Doesn't that bother you? Wouldn't you like to beat those other crew members who think they are above you? This is why I didn't understand what you guys were doing, until I saw you splilt the money.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is the kind of person who is trying to be the best isn't afraid to fight against their own friends, even if the odds are against them.

So if you disagree do what you feel you have to do next time: make sure people don't conspire, hide the brackets from Toronto, etc.
Hell last time I checked Vwins forfeighted the match with JL and that didn't seem to be a problem...

The difference here is that Vwins forfeited for no gain, whereas you guys forfeited to maximize your chances of winning the money. Forfeits per se aren't wrong, as long as they aren't used to metagame the tournament.

 

[Percon]

I'd own you all at Mario Party.

 

[Mystic Viper]

I'd own you all at Mario Party.

Money Match?

 

[infomon]

Money Match?

ToS6 shall be replaced by ToMP :-)

 

[BigRick]

Community not mature enough to handle cash prizes?

 

[humBAM]

I'd own you all at Melee

 

[Niko_K]

^^ This man speaks the truth. I actually wanna get into melee again but no one around here really cares for it

When I'm down in Ottawa this weekend you guys should hand my *** in melee

 

[KirbyKaze]

There was barely anyone watching the matches, towards the end of the tournament the place was almost empty. Heck I had what was probably the most exciting Brawl match of my life against Chester, and there was maybe 5 or 6 people watching. Basically no one gave a ****.

this.

10mudkips.

 

[Wak]

^^ This man speaks the truth. I actually wanna get into melee again but no one around here really cares for it

When I'm down in Ottawa this weekend you guys should hand my *** in melee

We haven't played so maybe it's our chance.

 

[Deleted member]

peace and love

 

[IvanEva]

Well when Im back in Ottawa this weekend we can get together for some Mario Kart and Mario Party...at IvanEva's apartment??

I'll have to see what time I work on Saturday and Sunday but otherwise, yeah, anybody's welcome. Keep in mind, of course, that my apartment is tiny and my tv (which is also fairly small) really sucks. If you can put up with that, then yeah. **** Mario Kart/Party! Arcana Hearts is where it's at!

By the way, I found this interesting:
http://www.evo2k.com/playerGuide/rules.php

It's the rules guide from EVO (which I'd love to attend... if I was loaded ) Here's the relevant part:

"There will be no ties in any tournament. Anyone refusing to play any Match (including the finals) will be disqualified and forfeit all rights to any titles or prizes they might have otherwise earned for that tournament. "

"Collaboration of any kind with your competitors is considered cheating. If the Tournament Director determines that any competitor is collaborating or intentionally underperforming, the collaborating player (or players) may be immediately disqualified. How will they be able to *prove* that you threw a match or collaborated? Proving that you threw a match would require the judges to read your mind, wouldn't it? Yes it would, and since they can't read your mind, they can't prove that you threw the match. Fortunately for them (and the fans, and everyone else) this rule is included to state that they don't have to *prove* anything. If, after conference and possibly a review of the match, the Tournament Director determines that opponents are collaborating or that any competitor has thrown their match, those players may be disqualified from receiving any prizes and be ejected from the tournament. This determination is to be made at the sole discretion of the Tournament Director. No one who isn't planning on cheating has anything to worry about--this is a simply a safety rule included to prevent shameful displays. Anyone intentionally performing at less than their best disgraces not only themselves, but the competitive enterprise and the tournament as well. EVO2K doesn't want you."

'Can't argue with EVO, now can we?

Then again... http://www.evo2k.com/playerGuide/gamerules.php

Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Game version: Nintendo Wii
Game Settings: Singles VS Melee
First game of a match to be played on Smashville. Players can decide to play on any map, if both players agree.
Excessive stalling or abusing terrain to not engage the enemy is prohibited, and can be enforced by a tournament director only. This will result in a loss of the match.
Losing player can pick what method to be used after match:

Method A
1) First stage is Smashville
2) Winner keeps character
3) Loser can either pick stage or character
4) If loser picks stage then character is kept
5) If loser picks character then stage is kept

Method B
1) First stage is Smashville
2) Loser picks stage
3) Winner picks character
4) Loser picks character


3 Stock, 5 Min timer, 2/3 Games
Items on medium spawn
Sudden Death will not decide the outcome of the game
Allowed Items: Banana Peel, Unira, Spring, Mr. Saturn, Green Shell, Smoke Ball, Freezie, Super Scope, Sandbag, Food, Screw Attack, Warp Star, Metal Box, Bunny Hood, Beam Sword, Baseball Bat, Lip's Stick, Star Rod, Hothead, Smash Ball, Ray Gun, Pitfall, Cracker Launcher, Motion-Sensor Bomb, Hammer, Golden Hammer, Bumper, Franklin Badge.
Banned Stages: New Pork City, Hyrule Temple, Warioware, Spear Pillar, Flat Zone 2, Original Mario Brothers, Mushroomy Kingdom, 75m, Summit, Rumble Falls

...
...
...
...Yeah... ... ... GO ITEMS! (I'm actually very curious to see how it'll go - plus they'll have SFIV and Super Street Fighter something something... the HD one!)

 

[Fogel]

For those of you who are on Allisbrawl, the site has processed the tournament results. I've linked up a few people to their accounts, but most people who went haven't been linked. If you're on Allisbrawl and want your placings etc. on your profile, go take a look!

http://www.allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=1034


For those who aren't on AiB, but are interested in more detailed results (including exact pool match breakdowns), you can get them from the link above as well.

 

[4Serial]

if i was watching brawl matches i think i'd be crying no matter what was happening

rofl david, i love you

 

[PND]

http://www.allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=1034
.

Wow, that's really cool. Looking at the pools results is awesome.

 

[Runawayfire]

Cameron, I'm not going to reply to you in full as I feel that will just perpetuate a situation which is past now, but I will touch on one thing.

My forfeight to loser's bracket wasn't about what you're perceiving, in reality I turned to Julian and said " I want to face Kage" and that was that.

 

[Damax]

Cameron, I'm not going to reply to you in full as I feel that will just perpetuate a situation which is past now, but I will touch on one thing.

My forfeight to loser's bracket wasn't about what you're perceiving, in reality I turned to Julian and said " I want to face Kage" and that was that.

shut the **** up, I want to face Kage and forfeiting to do so IS BRACKET MANIPULATION which was the problem here and not you guys forfeiting to each others. if you couldn't see the bracket none of this would have been possible and you would have wondered who'd got Kage, poor kid that's how tournaments are usualy. If you wanna fight so bad against someone, ask for a money match or friendlies.

The point there is not did you do it, or why did you do it but did we want it, did you need it?

and finaly stop bringing this back at all. and don't reply to me. I don't care anymore anyway since we've got solutions to such acts, + it'll prevent random noobs from messing with the bracket, so it prevents worst acts than your little ''arrangement'' of the brackets. (because changing winners in to looser and all that stuff can bust some serious time up)

oh and stop the johns, this period is over too.

 

[WarranThad]

as test noted in magic people will drop games to each other all the time, especially to help someone into top 8. prize splits are also super common and peopl ewill forfeit to a teammate with a deck better suited against top 8/that can win vs the field better if they have a split

thing is pairings are random in the next round unless you're only 2 at your current score.

meh

 

[Wak]

Gave an infraction to Damax for he already knows why.

The lamest thing is in 8 pages I've seen what... 3 shoutouts? So it's official now, there's hate between T.O. and Montreal? I mean come on guys, wow. Can't believe at the tournament everyone was being ******* hypocritical liers when they shaked their opponent's hand, saying "GG".

 

[Damax]

Gave an infraction to Damax for he already knows why.

The lamest thing is in 8 pages I've seen what... 3 shoutouts? So it's official now, there's hate between T.O. and Montreal? I mean come on guys, wow. Can't believe at the tournament everyone was being ******* hypocritical liers when they shaked their opponent's hand, saying "GG".

forgive and forget? hell I don't remember their faces, I barely remember percon because I talked with him. the rest I can't tell they seemed to hate my french accent and weird laughs.

don't hit me. I have no visual memory. I'd recognise percon by his voice more easily though.

 

[WarranThad]

i have no hate, i just was too lazy to do shoutouts this one time (i've done them every single other time)

Fine then:

Thanks a lot fogel for organizing yet another super fun event near a 7/11. I enjoyed my super duper spicy hotdog and chilli cheese dog very much, as well as my ridiculously huge slush enough that it made the trip to ottawa worth it even if i scrubbed out in pools like the trash player i am.

oh and thanks for everyone coming down everyone i talked to was supercool and the smash community is great because it has very few ***** and people i dont like being around (****ing kage what a douche =D)

 

[BentoBox]

Its a shame, everybody seemed to be enjoying themselves and the only thing that got me down was my actual scrubbish performance. :[ Toronto is too good, that's all that matters at this point.

Ilu Toronto <3

<3 the random group of ppl cheering for me when fighting Wolf (ash ketchum irl)~

 

[Niko_K]

I was part of that random group! I saw the green peach and was like wooh go peach!

I guess its time for me to do shoutouts, I'm definitely going to forget lots of people, I was busy with lots of stuff.

Saus: Ike is mindgames, I love how you threw away the pools set like that xD. Epic Mindgames right there. GG's. Ill play you more when I come out to ottawa next.

Kami: Great IC dude, Just get some more CG in there and youll dominate people no problem, I had difficulty with you!

Mystic_Viper: No one can beat me at MK64! bwuahaha I couldve done 5 second laps but that wouldve been too dirty, don't think I played you in brawl. GG's...Mario Party?

Yoshi Dude: WTF you play yoshi?! **** I'm impressed you played that well with yoshi, really surprised me. Had fun playing friendlies with you!

Bento: Peach 4 life *****, loved the friendlies and gg.

WarranThad: God **** your rob! I had never played a campy rob like yours before and it showed, I got totally dominated.

Damax: I WAS going to give you a nice shoutout, but your being a ****. Have fun with melee

Vwins: Almost had you both matches, but you pulled through in the end taking me 2-0 in the set. Nice ZSS, hope you continue to play brawl despite losing to percon. Great doubles matches as well, I just wanted to fsmash Damax lmfao

Testrider: Great Zelda dude, I really had difficulty with you in doubles, you and Wak made a great team.

Wak: Thanks for offering your hosting, though I already had some other plans set up It was kind of idiodic but it worked. Great doubles matches and have fun playing melee, hope you consider playing brawl as well.

Percon: Jesus christ man, you live around the corner from me?! I need to come practice more haha

JL and Ambrose: Just ***** in doubles, *****, I guess it was my fault for not playing so conservatively but you guys played smart and took advantage of my sloppy playing. GG

Kage: Had a great time playing doubles friendlies with you at the start of the day, also laughed my *** off at the epic 4 way ganons, have fun with melee and hope you stick with brawl as well

Kirt: Same as kage, great doubles matches!

Im forgetting so many people, like the guy we went to pizza pizza with that played ITG. kudos to you! Everyone who I played with GG's. Can we please throw this **** behind us, it really isn't that big of a deal at all.

 

[Mystic Viper]

Niko, Me and Kirt are one and the same

And what Damax said is true in a sense, i barely remember the guys from T.O. Now, im not trying to add to the hate when i say it like this, but the Ottawa people did come up to me, create conversations and delved into other things other then "competitive" brawl playing due to the tournament, except for Percon who came and played Dr. Mario with me , but the other Toronto guys didn't even seem to converse outside of their own groups from what I saw, i might be wrong though but its just the impression i got.

Maybe that's why theres more fighting then there really should be?

Nonetheless, the Ottawa guys were pretty cool, especially those I got to know during brackets (IvanEva, Jazriel, Haze, Nodrak to name those that I remember most, sorry J.L. you didnt even talk to me while in pools, and most importantly Chesterr01 )

 

[Switchblade]

Lets start playing competitive mario party

a turn based game that relies on luck to win? where have i heard this before <_<

 

[J.L]

Nonetheless, the Ottawa guys were pretty cool, especially those I got to know during brackets (IvanEva, Jazriel, Haze, Nodrak to name those that I remember most, sorry J.L. you didnt even talk to me while in pools, and most importantly Chesterr01 )

sorry, i was really tired. im sure you saw me sleeping while other ppl were doing their pools. But i do rmb you, you were the guy in the purple shirt with cap on who messed up the pools result when u put chester beating me 2-0, lol jkjk. But yea i do apologize for not talking to you or other ottawa/montreal people. i was seriously out of it. the only thing i could think of was water... but didnt want to walk all the way to some store to get it :S

and thanks to those who cheered WARIO during teams. From a hopeless situation I turned it around, then got motivated from the cheer. LOL too bad it didnt work on the ness player... haha

 

[Damax]

sorry, i was really tired. im sure you saw me sleeping while other ppl were doing their pools. But i do rmb you, you were the guy in the purple shirt with cap on who messed up the pools result when u put chester beating me 2-0, lol jkjk. But yea i do apologize for not talking to you or other ottawa/montreal people. i was seriously out of it. the only thing i could think of was water... but didnt want to walk all the way to some store to get it :S

and thanks to those who cheered WARIO during teams. From a hopeless situation I turned it around, then got motivated from the cheer. LOL too bad it didnt work on the ness player... haha

oh yeah ToS needs water lol. I was going in the bathroom and drinking water from the sink with my hands LOL. if there's another ToS, and if I go I'll remember to bring some plastic cups lol.

 

[Divinokage]

I'm gonna have to agree that i also don't remember much from ToS other than basically playing melee lol.

 

[BigRick]

Thanks a lot fogel for organizing yet another super fun event near a 7/11. I enjoyed my super duper spicy hotdog and chilli cheese dog very much, as well as my ridiculously huge slush enough that it made the trip to ottawa worth it even if i scrubbed out in pools like the trash player i am.

**** yes 7/11 !!!

I bet every1 was jealous when they saw us walking around with our slushes and ****.

EDIT: The best part was definitely: ''You're WarrenThad??? I thought you were black''

 

[WarranThad]

i remember kicking *** at bomberman

man that was fun.

 

[BigRick]

lol thats just cause u stole black bomber from me