Twilight of Smash 5 - Ottawa, ON - Jul 5, 08 Results

[Divinokage]

Ben melee ftw, Wak... prochain tournoi, je te promets, word of the warrior, qu'on fera des ganons dittos =P

Pi aussi, ton Olimar y'est bon, c'est juste que je t'ai eu avec tes combos laids de Ike lol. C'etait tres serrer nos matches. gg

JOEL COMBO!!!

Saus, GG in marth and Ike ditto, next time, the REAL warrior will get you. lol.
Fogel, thanks for hosting the tourney as always, was great fun and competition. <3

 

[ThatGuy]

From what I see and know, it was not a ****...

Are you kidding? Vwins was our biggest hope and he couldn't even touch Percon. I'd say it was a clean ****, broomstick and all.

Sorry, shoutouts in like 2 days.

 

[†¹Ãgøn¥¹†]

I was really satisfied of my team matches, I tought we would of gotten *****, but after all me and zaf we're not that bad at all in team =D

I was so much kidding around in pools, I won with cap falcon and bowser. I even played a pool game with random with a guy, he did it too, it was so funny.


I was more then disapointed about how the singles finals went, but except of that it was awesome. Good games everybody !

 

[Percon]

For the first time ever I'm waiting to do shouts >_>

tomorrow morning I'll get around to it hopefully

 

[PND]

I'd love to give a shout-out to Wolfblade and ThatGuy from my pool. Even though I lost to you guys, I came away with a lot from those matches. Those matches alone made it worth the $15.

Wolfblade, I can't wait to rematch your Lucario. Jiggs is the ultimate Pokemon!

ThatGuy, that was the tightest Mario I have ever faced. You owned me, but I still held my own. Next time, as much as it may kill me, I may have to abandon the 'puff for our matches

And of course, huge shout out to Cam for hosting it. Too bad about the Montreal / GTA&N feud though. . .

EDIT: And of course, everyone there who I met but forget to mention. I'll see you all around!

 

[Percon]

The feud is unfortunate and should never have happened. Expect some apologies/explanations/whatever tomorrow along with my shouts.

 

[eternalgamer]

My friend Ryad wants me to play Snake from now on. I'll think about it.

Don't give into the Snake & MetaKnight wave. We have enough of them. Stay true to yourself, stay true to the Wolf clan! Wolf represent.

 

[Damax]

Vwins could have beaten percon's snake. I'm not trash talking at all by the way. vwins has an amazing olimar and fox who could have dealt better with snake than G and watch or Zamus. he knew nothing of the matchups of course we all lacked experience and not mind.. I'm not patient enough to play a good snake, nor patient enough to play to win in this campy game and vwins only plays with me once a month for 2 hours or less.

we have little interest in the game, because there is so many broken mecanics, I had more hope before but the more it goes and the worst brawl get to me, slot priority wtv stupid sakurai.

I'll do shout outs progressivly has my name comes out, I don't really care if I get none.

Apologies to Percon and that metaknight right after for not willing to fight anymore, camping matches with wolfblade made me wants to suicide myself.

thanks for hosting cam, I enjoyed rolling for a while till I got bored to hell. the melee set up made me survive the day lol LE GARAGE! haha

 

[IvanEva]

I'm a nooby little scrub so... what's so bad about Brawl competitively? Yes, everytime a character trips somebody in the real world gets cancer, and yes, slot priority is like aparthied all over again, and yes, Snake and Metaknight are the reincarnation of Cable/Storm/Magneto/etc... but apart from that it went very well in my eyes.

Niko: You're my hero. You camp out and you use Peach! When I grow up, I want to be like Niko!

Benjamin: Err, sorry for up-smashing you so often in doubles. I think we actually worked pretty well together, up-smashes and multiple suicides aside (PK Thunder! *goes flying off the side of the stage* ****!).

Fogel: If the Ottawa community were made up of Pikmin, you'd be the Olimar, keeping things together. On an irrelevant note, there's random tripping in Pikmin 1 and 2 as well but I've yet to see any competitive Pikmin players complain about it.

To that Lucas player who showed me that combo thingy: Thanks. I'll be working hard on my Lucas for next time.

All in all great tournament (although the ending was a bit odd). It was a good learning experience. I learned that I suck balls and need to get better. When's ToS6?

 

[Percon]

^Let's not turn this topic into Melee vs Brawl >_>

Ok, here come the shouts:

Damax: Nice meeting you man, you're a cool guy with a cool name It's okay (regarding the bracket matches with me), I was just kinda weirded out by all your laughing. But yeah, sorry you don't like Brawl, I hope you show up some more though because you seem pretty sociable.

Warranthad: Nice meeting you and nice friendlies. Your Rob's pretty good. You're pretty relaxed and stuff. See you again soon hopefully ^_^

Ben (I know there are two of them, I'm referring to the one I faced in doubles first round): You've got a great rob too! Maybe I just don't have any Rob experience (lol), but yeah, see you 'round.

Infzy: Nice of you to make it out! Keep working on those ICs maybe if you come down you can meed Miller haha. Get those matches up at your leisure, no rush.

Kage: I wanted to friendly you in an Ike mirror. Ah well, next time (hopefully there is one)

Thatguy: It's THAT GUY. Seriously, you're just as good a sport and as fun a guy as last time I saw you. Only played you in doubles... ah well. Next time, my friend. CF vs Mario.

Chester: Didn't play you but all those chats later made me come to the conclusion that... you're a pretty chill guy. Next time I wanna play that beastly (or so I hear) Fox.

Vwins: MAN!! It was so good to finally meed this guy I've heard so much about! You look so familiar, too, it's weird. I feel really really bad about the forfeiting thing but I'm addressing that below.

Big Rick: Keep practicing

PND Mike: You're a trooper for playing Jiggs. I'd like to get in some puffball vs puffball games next time.

Yoshi player: I heard you did well in your pool. I wanted to see you play. Next time, next time.

Everyone in my pool: Good games, to those who main Kirby, keep it up, Kirby kicks all kinds of ***.

Zylem (I forget exactly >_>): Good games, keep practicing that GAW, k? You counterpicked intelligently.

GTA guys: We all did great! I already talked to all of you about our victory, though.

Niko and Wolfblade: You both did pwnsomely. Niagara represent.

Fogel: FOGEL! What a wonderful host and great tournament organizer! Seriously man, props, everything went smoothly and your living room is very comfortable. You're a really down to earth guy. I hope we meet again sometime in the near future!

There were so many people that I probably forgot a few... sorry if I did :x


Thoughts on the incident: I feel really really bad now. As soon as I saw everyone's disappointed faces I immediately regretted going through with not playing my matches. I'd like to offer what little apology I can to those who thought my actions were un-sportsmanlike, and I totally see where everyone is coming from (both sides). Uh... I promise to never do something like that again. I really dislike any kind of quarrel and hope our communities can still get together for some more good times.

Aux Québecois: Je suis vraiment, vraiment désolé. Je vous jure, ce n'était pas mon idée. >_< J'espère que vous allez tous me pardonner car je vous aime tous. Vous êtes de bons jouers. Je ne peux pas parler pour les autres de ma région, mais je ne vais jamais faire quelquechose comme celle la encore. <3?

And uh, good games everyone. You guys just need more experience, especially against Snake and Meta. Remember that success is possible for every character (that has a move that beats tornado ).

 

[Divinokage]

Percon, I know we didn't get to play but personally I don't really like Ike mirrors, it's really not the same as Ganon dittos.. well maybe a little.. but what it comes down to just like in brawl it's whoever gots the best camping skills. It's too hard to approach in this game. Not like in melee where I could go through the guy's shield and punish him real hard for trying to camp me.

Next time, maybe...

 

[Percon]

Okay, next time it will be CF vs Ike. Then you can 4 stock me in Melee to feel better.

By the way, if anyone would like to add me on MSN my email is:

tuggyz@hotmail.com

 

[Retlaf]

That was quite an enjoyable experience! The community for this game is very friendly and I had a great time playing with everyone.

I think I performed... rather poorly, but given it was my first smash tourney, I couldn't really expect that I didn't have lots to learn. My biggest regret is picking up GaW due to my lack of confidence in my "low-tier" mains (Yoshi, Jiggs, Sheik). I would play Yoshi in pools and counterpick GaW when I lost, and more often than not, my Yoshi would have performed much better (his losses were always very close). Next time, I'll be sticking to my guns! Regardless, great matches. (insert if only I polished up my yoshi instead of playing GaW all morning + last week johns)

I made a lot of anti-Snake-Metaknight comments, which I regret. It was all meant to be in good fun, but I can see taking offense to it. Sorry about that.

Mike: We never got our Jiggly duel! I would LOVE to ditto with another jiggly main, so next time you're in town, hit me up. neowneow at gmail dot com

Niko: I was wanting to pick up Peach at one point, and you've inspired me to do so... but I also don't want to steal your main. =P Yoshi it is, and more battles we'll have in August!

I really wish I had more friendlies with more of the top-ranking players just to see how my Yoshi compares. Oh well, more time to practice before then. See you all ToS6!

PS... lol @ teams round2 GaW bucket key (the match should be on youtube somewhere )

 

[PND]

Yeah, I can't wait until the Jiggs dittos.

 

[Divinokage]

Okay, next time it will be CF vs Ike. Then you can 4 stock me in Melee to feel better.

By the way, if anyone would like to add me on MSN my email is:

tuggyz@hotmail.com

Are you implying that im gonna lose against your CF? =P

 

[infomon]

PS... lol @ teams round2 GaW bucket key (the match should be on youtube somewhere )

You'll have to give me a few days to get a capture card so I can get the vids off vhs tapes >.>

 

[Retlaf]

You'll have to give me a few days to get a capture card so I can get the vids off vhs tapes >.>

Oh, no rush, I just wanted to reminisce over that amazingly awesome moment.

 

[J.L]

haha i was actually able to understand Percon's french paragraph from what little i remember from gr 9 french classes =]

but anyway, tournament went extremely well despite the drama near the end of singles bracket. GTA did not mean any harm what so ever but i wont even bother explaining or justifying our actions as I am not looking for a fight/debate. However, i do want to apologize for the strong emotions that occurred that night. I really hope this can be put behind us.

i do look forward to playing Ottawa and montrealers again. When Vwins walked up and forfeited to me, I was very upset as Vwins was one of the main people i was looking forward to fighting. I know Montrealers dont take brawl very seriously, but I know there are many who are willing to step up their game. I hope to see everyone again at another big tournament where everyone in the East Coast can once again play.


GGs and special shout out to Fogel for housing GTA. I had fun playing everyone in pools/doubles/singles/melee and look forward to next time.




oh and wario ftw... =)

 

[Fogel]

I'm sure everyone will hate me for beating a dead horse, but I want to put in my two cents on the whole forfeiting issue. I have been thinking about it since Saturday night and wasn't really sure what to say, but after reading over the other threads in this section and thinking about it I've sorted my thoughts out.

Firstly, for those who are reading this thread (and other threads...) and don't know what happened: In the top 16 singles brackets, some Toronto/Niagara players were looking over the bracket and forfeiting to each other in such a way that the player who was 'most likely' to make it through the brackets would go ahead. Before I go on, I'm going to emphasize that I didn't say ALL Toronto/Niagara players here.

Some people are chalking this up as a 'Toronto vs. Montreal thing' but I think it's more serious than that and it needs to be addressed. Some suggestions are at the end of my post, but first I want to explain the situation.

As the tournament organizer, I must apologize for not stopping this. For one, the other players in the bracket who had to play against them were put at an unfair disadvantage (especially Vwins who was their main target). Also, to the spectators, as they didn't get to see a lot of good matches that could have happened.

Here are events from my perspective:

I did notice them all around the computer a lot more than normal, and I could hear them talking about the bracket, but I didn't pay it any mind. Later on, there was one point where two Toronto/Niagara players (I'm not going to name names out of respect) in Losers' bracket were 2 or 3 rounds behind, and they were waiting for the other match against Vwins to finish so they could decide 'who to send out'. At this point, I told them, "I think you guys should play out the match." They just walked away. I just let them be, assuming they would play out the match. I still don't know if they actually did or not, but now I'm assuming that they didn't. Anyways, at this point, I left to play some Melee and wasn't paying attention, and after a while the whole thing with Vwins vs. JL happened that everyone already knows about.

In my defense, I have to say that I did not think they were actually forfeiting like this. I assumed that even though they were from the same city/crew/whatever, that they still had enough of a rivalry with each other that they would actually play out their matches. However, after the fact it turns out that they just split the money 5 ways, so I think that confirms that they were just sending out whoever had the best chance of winning, and didn't care about any rivalries between each other. Maybe it wasn't just about the money, but I personally believe that it was.

Match forfeits haven't really happened in this way at any other tournament that I've been to, so I didn't expect to see it here. However, it did, and I'm sorry for it. Vwins did tell me about the JL and Percon thing before his match, but at that point it was too late. You can't force two players who are in cahoots to play seriously...one of them can just go and, say, suicide 3 times. He indirectly suggested I disqualify them, but that doesn't seem right either as then Vwins would have just gotten 1st place by default.

Anyways, in the future I believe tournaments need to have some anti-cheating rules in place. I was talking with Zaf and Vwins a bit about it and they had some good ideas. Here's what I think we should do in the future:

- Brackets for tournaments should be PRIVATE. This means that players would NOT be allowed to see the bracket; their matches would be announced by tourney staff. This prevents the 'bracket planning' that happened at ToS5.
- Pools should also be private, but that's much harder to do as you need a lot more staff. However, ensuring crews are split up into different pools would go a long way to prevent pool rigging.
- Some kind of penalty against those who try to rig the brackets/pools; probably disqualification from the tournament.

Thank you everyone for coming to ToS5; I hope if there are future ToSes that you will all consider coming. I don't like that my tournament was 'cheapened' by this cheating and any future tournaments that I have any say in WILL have these rules in place.

- Fogel

 

[IvanEva]

None of this will matter anymore anyways since I'M GOING TO WIN THE NEXT TOURNAMENT! PK ****ING FIRE!

 

[IvanEva]

None of this will matter anymore anyways since I'M GOING TO WIN THE NEXT TOURNAMENT! PK ****ING FIRE!

 

[infomon]

Fogel, I absolutely respect your opinion on this matter. I don't think anyone's criticizing the way you handled the events of the tournament; it was all very well organized, and what happened at the end could not have been foreseen.

While I think forfeiting matches is silly and even kinda dishonest, I'm not sure it's fair to the TO/N crew to say that it was cheating. My impression is that they believed it was a perfectly valid tactic according to the rules. Since a player could just SD immediately against their friend, as you pointed out :S Obviously this type of bracket-rigging should be against the rules somehow (as tricky as that is.... keeping brackets secret sounds like a good idea for next time).... but afaik the TO ppl didn't think it was against the rules in this case, and furthermore didn't know it would be taken with such hostility.

Just my thoughts.... ergh I hope I'm not dragging this out more :S

 

[Percon]

Fogel did the right thing as tournament host and addressed the situation.

Though yeah, I'm hoping that everyone stops dragging it out (myself included >_>). The amount of shame the whole thing brought upon my head is enough for me to never engage in such affairs ever again even if the rules weren't being enforced.

 

[Runawayfire]

So now we're cheaters?
What the hell, we dont deserve this.

Its a little much to call something like this cheating, especially seeing as the truth is the top 2 were going to be Toronto anyway... If you think this is the only reason we won you must be blind.

I don't see why people are still trying to make it into something, personally I couldn't care less if 2 people who are in a bracket with me forfeight to one another, thats really none of my business.
I feel thats putting the blame outside yourself, and on other people. Stop the escape-ism please.
What should be important to you are your matches and winning them, not other peoples. (also you especially shouldn't be worrying about it if you're not in the bracket at all.)
I absolutely honestly believe in this.

So if you disagree do what you feel you have to do next time: make sure people don't conspire, hide the brackets from Toronto, etc.
Hell last time I checked Vwins forfeighted the match with JL and that didn't seem to be a problem...

Edit: Damax how do you think people were supposed to take your SF2 comment? You provided no explanation at all.
I wasn't there when the winners finals finished so I didn't see how people reacted untill I arrived so and I dont have any problem with Vwins, its mostly the people who are trying to make this more than what it is. We obviously misjudged how you guys might react to this.

 

[Damax]

Since vwins can't post: he didn't see this as cheating really, just a lame act. He did compete in other **** sports but mainly badminton and never saw that kind of acts. his values where touched there and it got him to hate brawl even more. He forfeited because he was pissed of playing, pissed of the fact you guys plotted against him because you thought he was such a big shot while it was all our very first brawl tournament and had little chance of making it this far considering how much we play. he also had money problem and hoped to make it through to help him. Finally: ten matches seemed like a pain to him, in all honesty I understand him, its like 1 hour.

I suggested to cam to hide the bracket, thx for the credit there but wtv.

The act wasn't much worst than when T.O. got all seeded together at a previous melee tournament. we mustn't not forget it or go over it, but go along with it and modifiy things according to this.

I see alot of similarity with the time T.O. all had to face each others at a TOS (I think it was a tos not sure) NO harm was meant but you guys did take it as if it was. also I'm sad you guys said: we didn't want to face each others.... after pool seeding made us fight each other at the second matches... its kind of normal when its a 16 man bracket, montreal had to fight each others too. maybe Test should have forfeited to send chet to beat X has he had more chance. To me this is really silly, just like splitting the money at the end but that's prolly just me.

Camron: I hope you are not blaming yourself, the tournament was great. The saddest part is that people don't stay to watch matches like they used to with melee, so after pools and sometimes during pools, people escaped. haha, that was the sadest part.

The guy who claims himself my fan for using sonic: lol, it made me laugh for 2 hours during my pools

Percon: oh yeah the weird laughs... haha, well, I changed from competition Damax to fun eater. Link and pit are fun to play when I'm tired of rollin. It was kind of a forfeit, but I had a run for my money, and I hope you did since you got to play your kirby which I presume is a character you like to play for fun. Think of it as tournament friendlies. same goes with the metaknight after, we tested something in game if I remember and someone asked: is this friendly? and I responded, no its tournament LOL. Epic.

Zaf: thanks for switching some smashers with me so I could drive less. don't hate me brick and testy <3

FInally: I really enjoyed hearing in teams: hey that sonic looks good. LOL LOL LOL

oh wait. RUnnawayfire: you big headed ontarian, my SF2 reference is quite good you just don't get it. SF2 sucked, SF2 Turbo owned, don't get me wrong. oh and your last post is ****ing dumb just cut it out NOW. you still don't understand really... again. Stop being arrogant, and read my post to maybe understand?

 

[Blea Gelo]

nothing like melee wak, love that pic XD

 

[Niko_K]

All I can say to the argument is less QQ more pew pew. Would it have made a difference, barely. We clearly demonstrated a higher overall skill and knowledge of the game.

Percon, your nikita kill against Vwins for your 3 stock was EPIC.

GG's guys. Im gunna be back in Ottawa this weekend for my friends BDAY.

Who wants to sleep in my tent?

 

[Niko_K]

Calling out Metagay and his gayness is the quite opposite to Johns, lol!

And I found out that Chester plays the same char as I do... I'm going to have to steal Chester's abilities.

Metaknight should be killed, KingAce literally used tornado 9+ times in a row against me, what could I do. *Puts controller on the ground*

 

[PND]

Obviously you should have pulled a bob-bomb. C'mon, it's just common sense

 

[Runawayfire]

Niko only pulls bomb-ombs in crew battles when its on a stock that he has to suicide on.

True story.

 

[TestRider]

GG insomnia, guess I'll post some shoutouts.

Cam, thanks for the tournament, very well run as usual. Stop blaming yourself for what happened, it had never happened in our Smash tournaments before so it's not like anyone could have predicted it anyway. By the way, calling it "cheating" seems unfair to me; nothing in the rules said anything about it, and besides such a rule could never be enforced. Maybe it's because I see this happen all the time in Magic tournaments, but frankly I didn't give a **** about it. If you still want to stop it from happening, hiding the brackets should be sufficient.

Chet....

Phil, désolé pour mon attitude en équipes, Brawl a tendance à me mettre de mauvaise humeur. GG, je comprends pas que ton Olimar ait pas passé les pools.

Andrew, apparently my controller wasn't broken; the c-stick-not-working thing is a well-known Brawl glitch/bug/whatever. GG Sakurai. Nice Yoshi BTW.

JL, good games, at least I didn't lose to some ****ing Metascrub. Oh, and the Delfino Plaza bug was awesome. God I love Brawl.

Zaf, thanks for the ride, good games in teams. If you wanna keep playing Brawl competitively, the next step is learning to spam Shuttle Loop.

Max pis Vincent, paix et amour. Max j'tai pas donné d'argent pour ton gaz, on arrangera ça la prochaine fois qu'on se voit. Vincent prends-le pas trop mal ce qu'ils ont fait, moi je vois ça comme un signe de respect, ils te craignent tellement qu'ils abandonnent leurs matchs pour te faire perdre. LAWL.

Runawayfire, nice job beating us twice in teams, fun stroll to 7/11

Toronto in general, I guess you guys can finally brag about something.

From what I've seen/heard, the opinion most of the Quebec Melee veterans have about Brawl is that the game is not very fun to play on a competitive level, as it seems to be lacking depth; getting Tornado-spammed and Shuttle Looped to death is not very enjoyable. I wouldn't expect any of us to travel to Toronto for a Brawl tournament, unless the rules ban Snake and Metascrub

 

[Retlaf]

Meant to say, you had a sick Zelda, TestRider. Thanks for the matches (save for the c-stickage) and congrats of 5th!

Brawl is actually a lot of fun when you're not fighting B-Button.

 

[Ambrose]

From what I've seen/heard, the opinion most of the Quebec Melee veterans have about Brawl is that the game is not very fun to play on a competitive level, as it seems to be lacking depth; getting Tornado-spammed and Shuttle Looped to death is not very enjoyable. I wouldn't expect any of us to travel to Toronto for a Brawl tournament, unless the rules ban Snake and Metascrub

There are a number of ways to counter tornado and shuttle loop. It is not completely broken. Some of the toronto metaknight users spammed it because we expected that you guys did not know how to deal with it.

 

[J.L]

^^ It is true... how do you think my wario is #1 on the Gta PR. There are ways to deal with it. It took us a while to figure it out.

Vwins, along the way found some ways around it. Even Chester was able to beat KingAce who probably spammed the entire match. There are ways...

 

[Percon]

Whoops! I totally forgot to give Mystic_Viper a shout :x

Mystic_Viper: I suck at Dr. Mario... but good games!

Expect more people I forgot later >_>

 

[eternalgamer]

^^ It is true... how do you think my wario is #1 on the Gta PR. There are ways to deal with it. It took us a while to figure it out.

Vwins, along the way found some ways around it. Even Chester was able to beat KingAce who probably spammed the entire match. There are ways...

Ya, you take the controller and beat them over the head with it!

 

[Niko_K]

....Or if you're peach you can just put you're controller on the ground, saves you the headache xD

 

[PND]

How to beat Gaynado:

Snake: Grenade
DK: Forward Tilt
etc.

Just use a high priority move anywhere and it hits him out of it. Aim for the top of the tornado with a medium priority move, and viola, he's out. It's really not THAT broken. Calling it cheap seems kind of scrubbish, no offense. I don't know every single move that will knock him out of it, but that's where individual practice comes in. Figure out what your character's options are, if any.

For shuttlelooping, if he's that close to you expect it an react accordingly. Like Marth, his upB can be an amazing kill move, but if you predict and counter it he's a sitting duck.

 

[IvanEva]

SF2 sucked, SF2 Turbo owned

Third Strike is were it's at! On another note, who else here is happy that it's Snake and Metaknight that are top tier? I mean, let's face it, they're tons cooler than characters like Kirby, Pikachu, Fox or Falco.

If Snake and Metaknight are tearing up the battlefield a bit too much (which I don't believe that they are - they're the best but I don't think that they're totally game breaking at all) what are the chances of them getting 'soft-banned' a la Akuma and Old Sagat?

Niko: I've yet to try it because I hate Peach but wouldn't her 'pulling toad out of her va...' move be the answer to the tornado?

 

[Niko_K]

Sadly no, the spores that come out of toad aren't high enough priority to knock MK out of his nado. Trust me, kingace watched me relentlessly try every move I had but just couldn't cut through it. I just put down my controller haha.