Try Shooting the Bad Guys - Fox GD/Q&A

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Lightning93

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Happy birthday, fellow bro who I've still yet to meet in person.

Here's to hoping we'll both get in some games with Anthony in the foreseeable future.
WHOOOOOA. Hey duuuude! Great to "see" you again. Still gonna rep Mario in this game?
Happy Birthday Lightning :3 We've got to play again at some point. I haven't seen you in years <3
Oh my goodness of course man. I'm in SoCal right now, are you up in NorCal? How's the scene going?
 
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A2ZOMG

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WHOOOOOA. Hey duuuude! Great to "see" you again. Still gonna rep Mario in this game?
Oh my goodness of course man. I'm in SoCal right now, are you up in NorCal? How's the scene going?
Wait...you're in SoCal now?

While I'm kiiinda busy right now (teaching programs and stuff)...I still would like to know where. You never know, I might have downtime on a weekend. I live basically just south of Torrance, if you know where that is.

And personally, I'm much more interested in playing Ganondorf this game. With some Mario on the side...to keep some status as the guy who knows most things about Mario. I probably don't have time for in-person tournaments though.
 
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Lightning93

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Yeah! I'm going to college in Los Angeles now! Please don't find out where ;)

Awesome dude, I didn't know you were into teaching. From what I remember you're a very patient guy so it sounds like an amazing fit. I'll look up Torrance sometime :)

Yeah tournaments not only require dedication and prep but you also have to set aside the time to actually attend and be present. Not easy. Hope to still see you around though!
 

RPK

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Yeah, I'm still up in Norcal. I wouldnt know at the moment since I havent attended any of the tournaments, but the scene is starting back up again and its exciting
 

Kanzaki

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Yeah! I'm going to college in Los Angeles now! Please don't find out where ;)

Awesome dude, I didn't know you were into teaching. From what I remember you're a very patient guy so it sounds like an amazing fit. I'll look up Torrance sometime :)

Yeah tournaments not only require dedication and prep but you also have to set aside the time to actually attend and be present. Not easy. Hope to still see you around though!
Cal poly Pomona has weekly tourney on Thursday if you're not too far. I barely found out so I plan to be a regular.. I graduated from there :p
 

Kanzaki

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Looks like a 40 min drive not barring traffic... and on Thursdays too?? What a good fit! Do you have a link to the details for time and location. Congrats on the graduation ;)
Every Thursday at 5.30 in the game room. Its a free tourney on a circuit system per quarter.. PriZes given out then apparently.

I'm not running the tournament, just heard about it on the socal Facebook group. I plan to go weekly,let me know if you do and I'll give you more info.
 

RPK

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My dad hears me and calls me a disgusting furry. He's just jealous of my devotion to Fox. I called him a dirty casual. He slaps me and sends me to go to sleep. I'm crying now, and my face hurts.
 
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C4-

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hey guys, i dont play fox but i just encountered a fox who was doing all these crazy jab cancels that i could not seem to get out of . He would jab cancel at least three times (which would mean 6 hits) then either grab or at high percents even upsmash, and it seemed as if i really could not do anything to escape. I tried holding away in all directions, shielding(typically the jab seemed to bring me to far into the air to shield), and jumping. I would only sometimes get out of the combo by jumping but that was rare and typically only worked if he was going to upsmash or grab. Is there anything i should/ should not be doing while being jab canceled? is there anyway for me to escape or do i need to just eat it?
 

DavemanCozy

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My dad hears me and calls me a disgusting furry. He's just jealous of my devotion to Fox. I called him a dirty casual. He slaps me and sends me to go to sleep. I'm crying now, and my face hurts.
Do you go to bed crying, when you hear Fox come in? Does he whisper on your ear "You're getting Up-smashed kid" and does he yell "Fiiiiiire!!" when he expresses his happiness?
 

ILOVESMASH

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I've been playing with fox for a while and i'm having some trouble KOing opponents. I find the main kill moves I use, Uair and USmash, extremely difficult to land. Any other good kill moves/ off-stage moves fox has in his arsenal?
 

DavemanCozy

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I've been playing with fox for a while and i'm having some trouble KOing opponents. I find the main kill moves I use, Uair and USmash, extremely difficult to land. Any other good kill moves/ off-stage moves fox has in his arsenal?
Only move you should go offstage with is N-air, if your opponent is trying to grab the ledge from a reasonable distance offstage.

Use more B-air. You can use U-tilt or Dash attack to follow up into it before 60% on most of the cast.

D-smash is good too. You can land both U-smash and D-smash by doing jab -> jab 2 -> (crouch) U-smash/D-smash. You have to crouch so that you don't do the rapid kicks, also gives you time to shield after jab 2 if your opponent has a fast N-air or something else that is fast.

Speaking of shielding, you can do U-smash out of shield.

U-air is tricky, you have to bait the opponent into air-dodging or something before you try it. Empty jumps help with this. Just moving around with Fox in general helps bait the opponent, he's so fast some people get fidgety playing against him.
 
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Lightning93

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Well said, though on characters with more predictable recoveries you shouldn't be too afraid of using Bair offstage. Just give yourself plenty of vertical space to do so and make sure you get used to the considerable commitment you'd be making before being able to recover.
 

luke_atyeo

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So I'm sure you guys have seen that perfect pivoting video, I haven't really had a chance to sit down and practice tech yet, but what does everyone thing of perfect pivoting in regards to fox?
Is it worth learning? is it over-rated? what are some uses/setups for fox? etc etc.
ideas?
 

HFlash

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Hello everyone! I main Captain Falcon and am looking at possibly having a secondary to cover up his bad MUs i.e short characters with disjointed hitboxes i.e Pikachu, Ness, Jiggly etc. and characters who can put up a wall of projectiles. How does do against both of these kinds of MUs? Any input appreciated
 

luke_atyeo

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Alright team, these boards seem a little dead and devoid of hype, lets get that meta rolling yo!

I came up with a list of a few things to test, I'ma try testing them out but it'd be cool if some other people gave these a shot too.



1.airdodge

As I understand it in this game, near the end of an airdodge there are some frames where you can cancel your airdodge into an aerial, and certain aerials (on certain characters) can autocancel during the first 5? (some small number around that amount) frames or so, so if cancel your airdodge into one of these aerials right before you hit the ground you dont get the usual landing lag.
In brawl, thanks to foxes speed airdodge into the ground was a good approach option, obviously in this game it isnt due to the landing lag but if the above tech works we might be able to get airdodging into the ground back which would be awesome.
It only works with certain aerials, and at specific heights since you cant cancel the airdodge at any point, only near the end.
So some testing is required to find out if fox can do this, if so with what aerials, and at what height.

2.Does fox have any setups/traps/combos with bananas (or metalblade, or turnips, etc)?
3.What are the applications for perfect pivoting with fox?
4.How do our blasers (1,2 and 3) intereact with each projectile in this game.


Also, who are the mods for the fox boards?
M@v?
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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Alright team, these boards seem a little dead and devoid of hype, lets get that meta rolling yo!

I came up with a list of a few things to test, I'ma try testing them out but it'd be cool if some other people gave these a shot too.



1.airdodge

As I understand it in this game, near the end of an airdodge there are some frames where you can cancel your airdodge into an aerial, and certain aerials (on certain characters) can autocancel during the first 5? (some small number around that amount) frames or so, so if cancel your airdodge into one of these aerials right before you hit the ground you dont get the usual landing lag.
In brawl, thanks to foxes speed airdodge into the ground was a good approach option, obviously in this game it isnt due to the landing lag but if the above tech works we might be able to get airdodging into the ground back which would be awesome.
It only works with certain aerials, and at specific heights since you cant cancel the airdodge at any point, only near the end.
So some testing is required to find out if fox can do this, if so with what aerials, and at what height.

2.Does fox have any setups/traps/combos with bananas (or metalblade, or turnips, etc)?
3.What are the applications for perfect pivoting with fox?
4.How do our blasers (1,2 and 3) intereact with each projectile in this game.


Also, who are the mods for the fox boards?
M@v?
Hey Luke. I had a quick look into your questions for ya. I've numbered them accordingly.

1. I'm hoping that Fox will having something similar to Falco. The whole airdodge cancelling thing was severely nerffed as the window in which you can input the aerial became much smaller (apparently). It's still a very viable thing for Falco. Pick him and try to do a SH instant airdodge and then do any action once you land. Then do the same and input like a Nair just before you land then try any input. There's a huge difference.
Ok so there's not enough time in Fox's SH as expected.
If you wanted to you can still do it out of a FH. The timing requires you to input the airdodge just before the peak of your jump then input Nair just before you land (if you're a little bit too early with the inputs you still get to land with a lagless Nair hitbox coming out, only you'd be sacrificing some critical invulnerability frames). This allows you to be invulnerable during pretty much the entire falling period and then go instantly into a shield or a Jab or a Grab etc.


2. Banana combos into pretty much everything, especially if you JC throw it (the JC throw has IASA frames and basically allows you to act after throwing an item much quicker). Fox actually gets a nice slide out of a JC throw. To illustrate the difference though, if you do either a standing throw or a dash throw on a Diddy standing near the edge, causing the Diddy to fall off, you won't be able to get any follow up; but if you do a JC throw, you can easily combo into a D-smash.

Metal Blade also combos into pretty much everything except F-smash.

Link's and Toon's Bombs as well as Bowser Jr's mecha koopa's won't actually hurt you at all if: you are the one who throws them, they hit the opponent, and you are so close at the time that you are within the blast radius. What this means is that you can combo anything out of them (depending only on percent, so with the Bombs F-smash won't work at 0% for example).

Turnips, same as above only you'll need higher percents for the weaker ones.

The Gyro is like the Bombs but a bit stronger. You can combo anything at lower percents but when you get to just below mid percents you have to start dashing forward out of the JC throw to combo.

With Pac Man's neutral special, it's all pretty much the same, except for one amazing thing. You can combo anything out of it, sure, but what's interesting are the options some of the fruits give you if Pac Man shield's it when you JC throw it at him. With the green one for example, if Pac Man tries to instantly Grab out of shield, you can either Grab or Jab him first. If Pac Man tries to instantly drop shield and Jab, our Jab and Grab will get him first. If Pac man tries to spotdodge immediately after getting his shield hit, he will avoid Grab and initially avoid Jab, but the Jab will catch him out of spotdodge if you hold it. Obvious if Pac Man holds shield Grab will get him and Jab will get shielded (I'm not sure how good his other options are OoS, but his grab is balls). If Pac Man tries to immediately roll, he will escape a Jab or a Grab, but you can follow the roll and get a Grab/Dash Attack/U-smash. If Pac Man tries to immediately Jump, Jab will work but Grab won't.
And that's just from testing his Green fruit.


3. Shield pressure immediately comes mind. So you throw out e.g. a Jab, the opponent shields it, then you do a quick perfect pivot backwards and wait to see if they try to punish the Jab, then go in and punish them on reaction.
The same could be done when you're edgeguarding someone only they are on the edge instead of in their shield.

It's just about micro spacing really it's quicker and shorter than a roll or a foxtrot. So it depends on the circumstances such as what moves you are trying to out-space and how much time you'll have to punish them.

In this regard it can just be used in the neutral situation to slightly adjust your spacing.


4. All I have is the normal blaster and I'd only be checking normal projectiles (not enough customs unlocked), but here we go.

Mario's fireballs- nothing; they pass right through each other. (Actually, just assume from now on that this is the answer for everything unless I specify otherwise. The projectile would need like a hurtbox in order for the normal blasters to each touch it as they have transcendent priority.)

Bowser Jr's mecha koopa- you'll blow it up with one shot if he throws it, but it will take four shots if it's walking, only note that you can't shoot it if you're standing on the same flat platform that it is walking on and you can't shoot it immediately if he throws it while standing on the same flat platform. The blast will not hurt Bowser Jr even if you shoot it just as he throws it.

Link's and Toon's bomb will get hit but will absorb a few blasts whether they are thrown or sitting on the ground idly.

Sheik's side-special will get hit but as a result of this it will get a boost towards you and then blow up with potentially greater force than normal. Do not shoot this unless you are a very long way away.

DHD- Fox's blaster will hit the can. If DHD was the last to make it move, the laser will make it hop slightly back the other way, otherwise the can will simply absorb the laser. If DHD is near the can when you make it hop, it will blow up on him. If you hit the can with the blaster at the right time i.e. the same instant that DHD kicked it initially or the same instant that he made it hop by a zapper shot, your blaster shot won't turn the can around on that shot or any other shots thereafter until it is moved again by DHD somehow.
It seems that the blaster can temporarily stun the can. Upon being shot, DHD won't be able to activate the zapper shots on it for a very small period of time. It's not much, but there's enough time to safely run past the can immediately following a (grounded) laser that has made the can hop if you're not too far away.
With the side-special, it will get hit and depending on the distance between you, it will either absorb two shots then on the third shot it will break or if you're relatively close it will only absorb one shot then on the second shot it will break. If DHD tries to activate the zapper shots, this will be cancelled the moment you break the disk with your blaster.
The gunmen either absorb two or four shots depending on the distance.

Lol, Kirby's voice get's interrupted by the blaster shots while doing his final cutter. Otherwise, the move is unaffected as expected. I'm not sure if this is just a 'game-pad being used as the screen and sound' thing.

Oh wow. Slightly off topic, but apparently blaster shots will stun a Dedede (and not a Kirby) if you shoot him while he is inhaling with neutral special. He will act like he just swallowed something which gives you plenty of time to punish with whatever you want.

Dedede's Gordo will never get hit back by a normal blaster. It will just absorb your shots.

Rob's Gyro will absorb all you're shots regardless of whether it's shot or thrown.

Not that it will ever really affect anything, but Ness' PK Fire absorbs our blaster shots. On a flat platform for example this won't happen because of the angle Ness shoots them while standing.

Villager's side-special and tree will absorb our shots, but as soon as the tree is cut and is falling the shots will pass through it.

Olimar's side-special will absorb the shots but the shots will also stop the pikmin in mid-air rendering them harmless.

WiiFit's soccer ball will absorb the shots.

Pacman's hydrant will absorb the shots and will never get launched. You can shoot the yellow ball when he does his side-special which will stop Pac man from travelling the full distance and if timed right will stop him from moving at all. The yellow ball can then be picked up as a healing item for 2%. All of Pac Man's neutral special items will absorb the shots.
 

ILOVESMASH

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When should I use his shine, besides reflecting projectiles and shine-stalling?
I'm not an experienced player, but I would say you shouldn't use it in any other circumstances besides the ones you mentioned. As an attack, Fox's shine just sucks because it has poor range, doesn't deal too much damage, and has some lag after it's use.
 

Seth B.

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When should I use his shine, besides reflecting projectiles and shine-stalling?
I'm not an experienced player, but I would say you shouldn't use it in any other circumstances besides the ones you mentioned. As an attack, Fox's shine just sucks because it has poor range, doesn't deal too much damage, and has some lag after it's use.
I wouldn't say it's completely useless. I sometimes throw it in when I'm close enough to hit with it just to mix things up and keep things unpredictable.
 

EndlessRain

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If you hit Mac with it, it makes him lose his KO Punch. For reference, it takes two uairs to do this. Also, it stops the punch from killing you, I think. Either that or my WiiU was glitching hard.
 

Element_Demon

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Has anyone on here tried a few up tilt juggles into an fair that sends you straight down ? At that point you can free to hit your opponent with jab locks, or even a smash attack. Comes in handy vs heavy characters.
 

EndlessRain

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I dunno about leading into it from a utilt chain, but the fair->jab lock thing is something I use a lot. I find it better near the ground, as there is less time to react to it and tech. So I'm a bit sceptical about sending them upwards first. Worth looking into I guess, but probably only if they DI forward out of the utilt string.
 

DavemanCozy

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So I noticed that Fox's U-air can be auto-cancelled in a short-hop. Timing is really tough, the U-air needs to be inputted as soon as you leave the ground with the short-hop. I'll try to get a gif up.

A good application I've found is to bait opponents into air-dodging when coming down. Does anyone here know if there are other things this could be useful for? Would it be better than sh B-air? I'm sure most of you can get more creative with this than me ;)
 
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luke_atyeo

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yeah I use sh uair a lot, it can help you transition combos into the air, like if I do a dthrow and then run after the opponent, they'll usually airdodge (expecting the fair) and that lets you get the sh uair and take them into the air, also sometimes you can get sh uairs off of dash attacks and the like, and as you said its great for pressuring enemy's to the ground.


doing sh autocancelled uairs repeatedly as quick as you can is good tech practice I find, and once you've got that down start moving them back and forth along the stage.
 

CELTiiC

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Hey guys, I've been playing Fox a decent amount today and have been having fun playing as him. I'm wondering a couple things.

1.) Can his illusion (side b) still be shortened? I couldn't seem to find the timing but I never really went into training mode to really practice it.

2.) Is his shine usable in this game? I know in brawl it was butt, but it doesn't seem as bad in this game.

3.) Does he have any guranteed combos or strings, especially out of throws? I've been having trouble getting some confirms off throws and was wondering if he has any.

Thanks in advance.
 

DavemanCozy

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1.) Can his illusion (side b) still be shortened? I couldn't seem to find the timing but I never really went into training mode to really practice it.
No, it can't anymore. That's the one downside it has. On the other hand, he can act out of it into a double jump or another attack, and also has very little landing lag if he uses it in the air.

2.) Is his shine usable in this game? I know in brawl it was butt, but it doesn't seem as bad in this game.
eh... it's pretty bad. Worse than Brawl I'd say since it just doesn't have that semi-spike gimp knockback anymore.

It's limited as a reflector now. Basically the only time you can cancel the end lag now is if you reflect something. It can still be used to shine-stall and avoid any juggle attempts, which combined with side-b having little landing lag, this let's him escape pressure when he's above someone. However, you can only shine-stall once now since it doesn't halt your momentum like it did in Brawl.

It's definitely still useful, just not as versatile as it used to be.

3.) Does he have any guranteed combos or strings, especially out of throws? I've been having trouble getting some confirms off throws and was wondering if he has any.
If the opponent is at low damage, the bread-and-butter with Fox is D-throw -> (jump) F-air -> U-air for 32%. It's not a true combo, I know that you are able to air-dodge or double jump out of the F-air follow up, though Fox can cover both of those options quite well anyways thanks to his fast falling speed and horizontal movement along the ground. F-throw is his other good throw, since it smacks the opponent in front of him a good distance a bit above the ground, letting him run at them with the threat of a dash-attack or SH N-air.
 
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CELTiiC

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No, it can't anymore. That's the one downside it has. On the other hand, he can act out of it into a double jump or another attack, and also has very little landing lag if he uses it in the air.


eh... it's pretty bad. Worse than Brawl I'd say since it just doesn't have that semi-spike gimp knockback anymore.

It's limited as a reflector now. Basically the only time you can cancel the end lag now is if you reflect something. It can still be used to shine-stall and avoid any juggle attempts, which combined with side-b having little landing lag, this let's him escape pressure when he's above someone. However, you can only shine-stall once now since it doesn't halt your momentum like it did in Brawl.

It's definitely still useful, just not as versatile as it used to be.


If the opponent is at low damage, the bread-and-butter with Fox is D-throw -> (jump) F-air -> U-air for 32%. It's not a true combo, I know that you are able to air-dodge or double jump out of the F-air follow up, though Fox can cover both of those options quite well anyways thanks to his fast falling speed and horizontal movement along the ground. F-throw is his other good throw, since it smacks the opponent in front of him a good distance a bit above the ground, letting him run at them with the threat of a dash-attack or SH N-air.
Thanks man for the post. Very informative and answered my questions well. Shame you can't shorten side b and shine is still butt hahah.
 
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