Try Shooting the Bad Guys - Fox GD/Q&A

[EndlessRain]

As far as BnB's go, dash attack->nair/dair is a nice one. The dair can pop them up behind you to set up utilt strings at low percents, too.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I've been trying to pick up Fox as a secondary, and I'm curious as to the application of pivot F-Tilts. Considering it sends Fox sliding pretty far, it's almost like Dash Attack in a way. I've tried using it in the same way with pretty decent results. Is this a common thing?

 

[Lightning93]

I haven't personally much regarding pivot Ftilts, but there was one interesting clip I saw where after the perfect pivot you do get a potential follow up with up-tilt should you hit with the back of ftilts hitbox.

It's kind of difficult to explain in text, but I could say pivot Ftilts getting more utility than dash attack in some scenarios as I believe there are less recovery frames.

 

[EndlessRain]

Up-angled ftilt sets up for aerial followups at low percents, and down-angled forces them to tech, allowing for followups should you read the direction. And then, of course, there is the back of the hitbox setting up utilts.

 

[N7_Berzerker]

I know this is gonna sound very noobish, but how do you with the characters with disjointed hitboxes? They screw with my approaches.

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Fox board needs dedicated frame data thread that is user friendly. Accompanied by pictures of moves and examples of use and stuff.

Also, does anyone know how to buffer stuffs in this game consistently? I am not able to pull that off in this game and it's kind of irritating as I try to go do some killing after the setup. Like, soft nair to running upsmash for example, I just upsmash at the same place, leaving me vulnerable to punishes.

 

[luke_atyeo]

^
you are doing it too fast, you dont need to input the upsmash until after you start actually running

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Heh, that's something new... me inputting things fast. Anywho, I will try that, thanks.

EDIT: Dang it, I feel like I will never get the basics done right. May be I should just put myself in training mode daily just to move around and do RAR and pivot boost grab timing perfected and stuff. I feel that I am missing a huge bit.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I try to spend at least 15 minutes a day in practice mode doing stuff, it helps a lot with learning to play really fluidly

 

[Foster J.]

Is it just me, or do you sometimes do an Ftilt even when pressing Z during a pivot?

 

[EndlessRain]

Not just you. It's dependant on timing, as far as I can tell. Pressing grab right away will still ftilt, but allowing it a brief moment after turning gets a grab every time.

 

[Foster J.]

Not just you. It's dependant on timing, as far as I can tell. Pressing grab right away will still ftilt, but allowing it a brief moment after turning gets a grab every time.

Press Grab do a Kick. This sounds like a coding derp.

 

[EndlessRain]

Grab inputs an "A". Or at least it did, in Brawl, when A+B was grab on the Wiimote.

 

[luke_atyeo]

Z is a macro that tells the controller to input shield and attack at the same time (Which of course produces a grab)
So it is providing at attack input that can be read as a pivot ftilt, I have no idea why it works like this now since I'm pretty sure it didn't work like that in brawl, but its there and its annoying to get used to

 

[EndlessRain]

In Brawl it just inputted A+B at the same time, or A+Shield, depending on your controller.

 

[luke_atyeo]

^ exactly that, Z is just a macro for the grab combination.


Are there any foxes going to apex apart from DEHF?
I didnt see megafox on the pools listing :<

 

[EndlessRain]

Hmmmm... I think NAKAT said he was going to switch to him for certain MUs? That was a while ago though.
EDIT: Said Nairo instead of NAKAT -.-

 

[Foster J.]

Hmmmm... I think NAKAT said he was going to switch to him for certain MUs? That was a while ago though.
EDIT: Said Nairo instead of NAKAT -.-

Well Nakat's go to Diddy MU is Fox, and isn't LarryLurr at Apex too? ZeRo uses Fox too, but he probably won't show it unless he knows it's a definite counter against a certain MU, but he promised Falcon though

Edit: Wow Nairo Fox? That must be a specific MU then considering he's got both The Pits, ZSS, and Zelda up his sleeve.

Edit2: Yep Larry Lurr is signed up for Apex for Melee 1v1, 2v2 and Wii u 1v1, 2v2's so there's one heck of a fox player in the brackets!

 

[luke_atyeo]

Are there any foxes going to apex apart from DEHF?

isn't LarryLurr at Apex too?

same person

 

[Foster J.]

same person

WELL, at least Larry pretty much showed that Illusion to Uair is a nasty string. Sadly it doesn't seem likely a true combo unless at high percentages.

Can't wait for the upload to youtube!

 

[WispBae]

I have a question but this isn't necessarily gameplay related. What is Fox's Up-B? All these years of playing Smash and I've never once questioned why Fox lights himself on fire and then suddenly flies.

Sorry if it's a silly question, I've only played Starfox: Assault. Is the move based on something or were we "sakurai'd"?

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I have a question but this isn't necessarily gameplay related. What is Fox's Up-B? All these years of playing Smash and I've never once questioned why Fox lights himself on fire and then suddenly flies.

Sorry if it's a silly question, I've only played Starfox: Assault. Is the move based on something or were we "sakurai'd"?

Its called Fire fox. If I'm not mistaken, its powered by G-Diffusers or something similar.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I did a little research on it and turned up nothing.
My assumption is that when they were first making the original smash bro's, since they had nothing to really base foxes hand to hand fighting on, they just took ideas from Japanese mythology (taking ideas from mythology is super common after all)
In Japanese myth, foxes were often attributed with fire and the ability to generate it and use it as a weapon.
There is actually a Japanese word -kitsunebi- for a special type of fire which is sometimes translated as "foxfire" due to its association with fire (and is fire associated with foxes). The other common translation for this word is Will-o-the-wisp (you probably recognize it as ninetales iconic move from pokemon) Will-o-the-wisp is a real life natural phenoma often described as ghost lights which are pale balls of light that sometimes appear over marshes, and in Japanese mythlore were often speculated to be created by foxes, which has led to the more fictional idea of a special kind of fire that can only be generated by foxes and fox spirits.


My guess is that all that stuff is where they drew inspiration to create foxes upB

 

[Timbers]

I did a little research on it and turned up nothing.
My assumption is that when they were first making the original smash bro's, since they had nothing to really base foxes hand to hand fighting on, they just took ideas from Japanese mythology (taking ideas from mythology is super common after all)
In Japanese myth, foxes were often attributed with fire and the ability to generate it and use it as a weapon.
There is actually a Japanese word -kitsunebi- for a special type of fire which is sometimes translated as "foxfire" due to its association with fire (and is fire associated with foxes). The other common translation for this word is Will-o-the-wisp (you probably recognize it as ninetales iconic move from pokemon) Will-o-the-wisp is a real life natural phenoma often described as ghost lights which are pale balls of light that sometimes appear over marshes, and in Japanese mythlore were often speculated to be created by foxes, which has led to the more fictional idea of a special kind of fire that can only be generated by foxes and fox spirits.


My guess is that all that stuff is where they drew inspiration to create foxes upB

holy information

 

[Foster J.]

BEHOLD, OUR ONLY AT AS FOX, MASHING A

List it works on according to the video

:
- He can up-B to escape anytime.
- Can shield under ~105%, cannot shield after.

:
- He can n-air to escape anytime.

:
- She can float away after about 2 sets of jabs.

:
- He receives no knockback from jab 1 before 110%, so he can shield right away.
- After 110%, he's trapped.

:
- Can double jump out at anytime with no consequences.

:
- She gets trapped under ~80%. Can jump out after ~80%.
- If Luma is free, it can save Rosalina.

:
- Gets trapped at any percent.
- Over ~100%, Fox's u-smash is guaranteed. Must be fast though.

:
- After ~20% percent wario is trapped.
- Over ~100%, Fox's u-smash is guaranteed. Must be fast though.

:
- DK can up-B to escape anytime.

:
- Diddy gets trapped after ~40%. Can shield before that.

:
- He can up-B out before ~20%.
- He can get out after about 3 sets of jabs by DI-ing away and up-B.

:
- Can n-air out, or up-B out.

:
- Gets trapped after ~40%.

:
- She can escape with n-special at any percent.

:
- Sheik can shield before ~110%. After that, she's trapped.

:
- He gets trapped at any percent.

:
- He can escape quicker by DI-ing up, and away, and jumping. But risky cause 2nd jump might get caught.

:
- She can up B out at any percent.

:
- She can shield before ~80%. After that, she's trapped.

:
- He can escape by DI-ing up and away, and jumping.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed over ~100%. Must be fast though.

:
- She can shield before ~70%. After that, she's trapped.

:
- He can up-B to escape at any percent.

:
- He gets trapped at any percent.
- Fox can u-smash if Ike is trapped at the tip of the jab.

:
- He gets trapped at any percent.

:
- He can summon the can to stop the combo at any percent.

:
- He can crouch then shield/d-tilt below ~40%. Above ~40%, can jump away.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed over ~80%. Must be fast though.

:
- He can escape by DI-ing up and away, and jumping.
- Over ~100%, Fox's u-smash will connect. Must be fast though.

:
- He can shield before ~80%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- He can jab back before ~70%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- Below ~100%, he can jab back or shield.Above ~100%, he cant escape.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed. Must be fast though.

:
- Below ~70% can shield. After ~70%, Pikachu is trapped.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~120%.

:
- Charizard is trapped at any percent.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~150%.

:
- Lucario is trapped at any percent.

:
- Jigglypuff can jump away at any percent. She can also rest Fox after first 2 jabs.

:
- He can jab to escape before ~65%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- He can shield before ~20%. After that, he's trapped.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~150%. Must be fast though.

:
- He cannot escape at any percent.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~120%. Must be fast though.

:
- Can jab to escape before ~70%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- He can n-air to escape before ~85%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- Di away/towards Fox and jump to get out faster. But risks 2nd jump getting caught by Fox's jabs.

:
- She cannot escape at any percent.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~100%.

:
- He cannot escape at any percent.

:
- He can up-B to escape before ~90%. After that, he's trapped.


- He can DI up and away, and jump to escape.
- fox can link up smash at over ~100% if Dark Pit is right beside him.

:
- She can up-B to escape at any percent.

:
- He can up-B to escape before ~60%. After that, he's trapped.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed if Pacman is at the top of his jab, over ~100%.

:
- He can shield before ~80%. After that, he's trapped.
- He can up-B to escape before ~30%.

:
- He can up-B to escape at any percent.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I'm still working on my own DJC list and I can tell you that not all of that above is correct, also theres no specification of follow ups, the percentages are different depending on if you are going for multiple djc's, or if you want to cancel into a grab or a dsmash

 

[Foster J.]

I'm still working on my own DJC list and I can tell you that not all of that above is correct, also theres no specification of follow ups, the percentages are different depending on if you are going for multiple djc's, or if you want to cancel into a grab or a dsmash

I am aware, I'm doing Dsmash, or even Ftilt depending on what character it is, however it's very important to note unless you're almost frame perfect then it just doesn't work even on the "can't escape" characters, but you are generally able to jabjab grab/utilt against everyone with maybe the exception of Jigglypuff.

 

[AirshBornely]

BEHOLD, OUR ONLY AT AS FOX, MASHING A

List it works on according to the video

:
- He can up-B to escape anytime.
- Can shield under ~105%, cannot shield after.

:
- He can n-air to escape anytime.

:
- She can float away after about 2 sets of jabs.

:
- He receives no knockback from jab 1 before 110%, so he can shield right away.
- After 110%, he's trapped.

:
- Can double jump out at anytime with no consequences.

:
- She gets trapped under ~80%. Can jump out after ~80%.
- If Luma is free, it can save Rosalina.

:
- Gets trapped at any percent.
- Over ~100%, Fox's u-smash is guaranteed. Must be fast though.

:
- After ~20% percent wario is trapped.
- Over ~100%, Fox's u-smash is guaranteed. Must be fast though.

:
- DK can up-B to escape anytime.

:
- Diddy gets trapped after ~40%. Can shield before that.

:
- He can up-B out before ~20%.
- He can get out after about 3 sets of jabs by DI-ing away and up-B.

:
- Can n-air out, or up-B out.

:
- Gets trapped after ~40%.

:
- She can escape with n-special at any percent.

:
- Sheik can shield before ~110%. After that, she's trapped.

:
- He gets trapped at any percent.

:
- He can escape quicker by DI-ing up, and away, and jumping. But risky cause 2nd jump might get caught.

:
- She can up B out at any percent.

:
- She can shield before ~80%. After that, she's trapped.

:
- He can escape by DI-ing up and away, and jumping.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed over ~100%. Must be fast though.

:
- She can shield before ~70%. After that, she's trapped.

:
- He can up-B to escape at any percent.

:
- He gets trapped at any percent.
- Fox can u-smash if Ike is trapped at the tip of the jab.

:
- He gets trapped at any percent.

:
- He can summon the can to stop the combo at any percent.

:
- He can crouch then shield/d-tilt below ~40%. Above ~40%, can jump away.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed over ~80%. Must be fast though.

:
- He can escape by DI-ing up and away, and jumping.
- Over ~100%, Fox's u-smash will connect. Must be fast though.

:
- He can shield before ~80%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- He can jab back before ~70%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- Below ~100%, he can jab back or shield.Above ~100%, he cant escape.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed. Must be fast though.

:
- Below ~70% can shield. After ~70%, Pikachu is trapped.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~120%.

:
- Charizard is trapped at any percent.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~150%.

:
- Lucario is trapped at any percent.

:
- Jigglypuff can jump away at any percent. She can also rest Fox after first 2 jabs.

:
- He can jab to escape before ~65%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- He can shield before ~20%. After that, he's trapped.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~150%. Must be fast though.

:
- He cannot escape at any percent.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~120%. Must be fast though.

:
- Can jab to escape before ~70%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- He can n-air to escape before ~85%. After that, he's trapped.

:
- Di away/towards Fox and jump to get out faster. But risks 2nd jump getting caught by Fox's jabs.

:
- She cannot escape at any percent.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed after ~100%.

:
- He cannot escape at any percent.

:
- He can up-B to escape before ~90%. After that, he's trapped.


- He can DI up and away, and jump to escape.
- fox can link up smash at over ~100% if Dark Pit is right beside him.

:
- She can up-B to escape at any percent.

:
- He can up-B to escape before ~60%. After that, he's trapped.
- Fox's u-smash is guaranteed if Pacman is at the top of his jab, over ~100%.

:
- He can shield before ~80%. After that, he's trapped.
- He can up-B to escape before ~30%.

:
- He can up-B to escape at any percent.

I needed this. Thanks!

 

[AirshBornely]

I'm sure it's been said to death by now, but I really do miss Fox's previous VA. (Jim Walker I think) I thought he voiced Fox very well in Assault as well.
Nonetheless, it doesn't take away my enjoyment of playing as my favorite character.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Fox's double jab cancel is a god send! Now to master it

 

[fox67890]

I noticed his jab cancels got buffed, but this seems almost ridiculous...

I think I might try to be more active on the Fox boards. It's been awhile~

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Yes, it has been a while since the disintegration of the Skype group. And djc is quite nice.

 

[Timbers]

I think I'm having a bit of confusion on how to approach early parts of matches against fastfallers with fast jabs. Falcon, Sheik, Falco, Greninja, etc. Let's load up a scenario. A match starts. You're both at 0%. How do you approach this? Against fastfallers, the only moves you can use at these very low percents (safely on hit) is bair, grab, dair. Everything else puts you in a negative frame advantage and can be punished for successfully hitting them, but still being in endlag and they're on the ground and ready to punish.

In these low percent scenarios against such characters, I'm just finding I have to play this very awkwardly (bair, dair, grab spam until they're at 30%~) and I just get boxed out against these characters having much better jabs than Fox's.

Is this the wrong way to go about it? Matches tend to go alright once my moves apply enough knockback to not be punished for landing hits, but it feels really sloppy to approach it this way.

 

[Foster J.]

I think I'm having a bit of confusion on how to approach early parts of matches against fastfallers with fast jabs. Falcon, Sheik, Falco, Greninja, etc. Let's load up a scenario. A match starts. You're both at 0%. How do you approach this? Against fastfallers, the only moves you can use at these very low percents (safely on hit) is bair, grab, dair. Everything else puts you in a negative frame advantage and can be punished for successfully hitting them, but still being in endlag and they're on the ground and ready to punish.

In these low percent scenarios against such characters, I'm just finding I have to play this very awkwardly (bair, dair, grab spam until they're at 30%~) and I just get boxed out against these characters having much better jabs than Fox's.

Is this the wrong way to go about it? Matches tend to go alright once my moves apply enough knockback to not be punished for landing hits, but it feels really sloppy to approach it this way.

Generally it's all about knowing the MU. Let's say it's a He'll be able to do a Nair out of your DA->Utilt after the 1st one generally, we see Larry do this where he KNOWS this and expects it thus shielding it, infact powershield it pretty often, and then resumes to deliver a new Utilt.


How does he DI after being hit? If he DI's in front of you then after the 2-3rd hit you should have knocked him to a position where he lands then following up with a Dsmash / Jab-jab grab.

You're right about the jabs, Fox's jab is solid, but not the best in terms of range, so if you can expect good jabbers to throw it out, and generally try to grab them after the first 2 jabs, or try to tomahawk them. I think it's important to note that your Jab Jab Grab provides a lot safer and better options than letting it finish, at low percent's it's likely best to Jab jab shield, and then grab.

This is my take on Fox where he thrives on controlling the field, such as threatening them by trumping which can potentially lead into a Bair, or more commonly Nair / Dair. And you really want to throw out those Zoning Nair's.

But you're right about the hitstun of low percentages, Counter characters can get a counter ready, or they'll dodge, in general when approaching targets like this I like to empty short jump close to them to see their reactions.

I'll say though that Is easier to build percentage off due to his tall hurtbox, and is slightly predictable if he runs towards you he'll either DA or Grab 80 % of the time, so a quick dodge can lead into a punish, Is a bit tricky due to him having that jab moving him forward and with his better aerials, but you should focus on running him down, and bait more to avoid getting punished. As for and I don't have much MU experience.

 

[Timbers]

Thanks for the advice. Quick note:

You're right about the jabs, Fox's jab is solid, but not the best in terms of range, so if you can expect good jabbers to throw it out, and generally try to grab them after the first 2 jabs, or try to tomahawk them. I think it's important to note that your Jab Jab Grab provides a lot safer and better options than letting it finish, at low percent's it's likely best to Jab jab shield, and then grab.

You can't jab cancel fastfallers at low percents. They have frame priority over you and can act before your jab 2 lag ends. So you can't actually throw up even a shield before they jab you back.

 

[luke_atyeo]

if you jab a fast faller at low percent the best option actually seems to go all the way and do the jab kick finisher.
Yep, thats how bad your options are>
Every time I jab a fastfaller they punish me on hit :<

 

[Foster J.]

You can't jab cancel fastfallers at low percents. They have frame priority over you and can act before your jab 2 lag ends. So you can't actually throw up even a shield before they jab you back.

This is also why we see jabjab -> Shield -> grab at low percentages, or even just jab roll, or jab shield. But yeah low percentages suck a lot.

 

[luke_atyeo]

some characters can jab you back before your shield comes out

 

[Fangblade]

Q. Most opportune times to punish fox?
I'm having trouble keeping up with him. He seems very capable in the air, FF Nair> Jabs seems nonpunishable, and his OoS grab is super quick. I'm having trouble not being juggled by a good fox (I usually play TL), any advice on beating fox in general would be appreciated.

 

[luke_atyeo]

so, this happened... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMxmMVO9gA

enjoy your free doubles wins




on another note to partially answer your question fangblade, foxes biggest weakness is his linear recovery.
He actually has quite a few recovery tools, but if you can force fox into a position off stage where he is below the level and doesn't have his double jump, then he is forced to UpB to the stage and you can intercept that and kill him.
How can you put him in that position in the first place? Your projectiles, put them in the path that he would take to side B and you can force him to have to UpB.
Learn how to force and punish that and you'll be off to a great start.