Tripping (ink dropping)

[Magus420]

Did your test and I tripped =/
Random falling ftl

Test Results (done with pit):
Trip/Dash
1/16
1/130
1/120
1/79
1/25

>_______________________>


Wow that's dumb.

 

[tutata]

lol intresting, ink dropping.

 

[G-X]

Tripping and falling for no reason = epic fail (for Sakurai)

 

[gnosis]

This gives me a sinking feeling in my stomach.

The feeling of disappointment.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

i dd all the time and i trip like once during a whole match because i change directions too slow

 

[PanzerOceania]

I'm sure Ink is proud of his "adv tech" now, goes to show you better be careful when you hastily name a move after yourself

 

[Yuna]

Maybe Sakurai was reaaaaally inspired by Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon fighting games (Super and SuperS) for the SNES.

Sometimes when you performed a Special Attack (any of them) in that game, it would randomly fail and you'd be stuck in a certain "Drats! It failed!" animation. For no good reason than comedy.

 

[SenorPresidente]

Is there nothing about tripping in Japanese strategy guides. It seems something they would cover.

 

[JayceMJ]

Maybe Sakurai was reaaaaally inspired by Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon fighting games (Super and SuperS) for the SNES.

Sometimes when you performed a Special Attack (any of them) in that game, it would randomly fail and you'd be stuck in a certain "Drats! It failed!" animation. For no good reason than comedy.

More likely inspired by Treasure's random trips. Seen with Nicole in Guardian Heroes, Ukitake in Bleach DS (coughs rather than trips) and Yachiru in Bleach DS 2nd. Although Treasure's aren't entirely random, the chance it happens increases each time you do a certain action (dashing, specials, ect) and decreases the longer you don't do said action and you could only be hit by it if you were doing said action.

 

[PanzerOceania]

all you people out there who have "inside connections" mind asking the development team what the hell tripping is for?

 

[Hitaku]

This is really going to change how people view fox trotting in Brawl imo, using it sparingly. On a brighter note, if it makes anyone feel better, I have had the game for around 4 days now and have been playing it non stop. I have yet to even come close to losing a match due to a trip. They happen, but because its random I'm usually not punished for it (I have time to roll out). The entire concept of tripping is irritating, but not game breaking by any means.

Edit: Imo there is no tripping in Brawl, its all Diddy's mad mind games with his crazy invisible bananas.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Did your test and I tripped =/
Random falling ftl

Test Results (done with pit):
Trip/Dash
1/16
1/130
1/120
1/79
1/25

So you did 5 tests, and these were the results, or what? I dun get it.

 

[LaughterIsDeadly]

lol do some chars trip more than others?

 

[Xanderous]

If you aren't interested in the competitive aspect then you shouldn't even CARE if the tripping is in. Stop instigating.

 

[Magus420]

Yeah, I can really see this limiting the new dashdance, since you need to do 2 dashes for every one movement in a direction in order to do the turn around. If used as a character's primary means of movement and spacing, it could happen several times to a lot on average per match depending on how defensively and/or ground-based one plays if it's something like 1 in every 60-90 dashes you do. I'd think it hurts those that need to rely more on a good ground game a fair amount due to poor/unsafe aerial approaches.

=/

 

[TempestFunk]

Hey guys, here's something no one has mentioned yet.

What if some characters tripped more than others? This could be a means to balance out some of the fighters. Maybe characters like Marth or Fox trip a lot while another less impressive fighter... say ROB or Mr. Game and Watch, would trip less

This is just a thought... could someone with the game test it if they have the time?

Also, please don't discount brawl from competitive play just because of something as silly as tripping. Competitive games often have random elements in them (Poker, Magic: the gathering)

 

[darkNES386]

In all those video's gimpy posted... tripping rarely occured... I doubt it is entirely random. It has to be based off something you choose to do (whether or not it's specifically one thing). Noobs/newbies will trip more than veterans.

 

[Dark Sonic]

@I saw somebody get grabbed out of a trip twice in the final match of Gimpy's tournament. Now imagine if that was MLG finals and they were both at really high percents. Would you really like to lose thousands of dollars because you randomly tripped? It's a little less devestating than random explosive containers falling into your attack, but this happens much more frequently than that situation.

I really, really hope this isn't indeed random.

 

[5150]

if it really is random this could break smash bros

the PERFECT first post. gj.

 

[Magus420]

@I saw somebody get grabbed out of a trip twice in the final match of Gimpy's tournament. Now imagine if that was MLG finals and they were both at really high percents. Would you really like to lose thousands of dollars because you randomly tripped? It's a little less devestating than random explosive containers falling into your attack, but this happens much more frequently than that situation.

I really, really hope this isn't indeed random.

Unfortunately, I don't even see how it could be anything but random at this point.

I can now confirm it's random. I dashed at the *very* beginning of the fight without doing ANY action before. Literally in the first second, I tripped.

After playing it for a full day...I can only safely assume that it happens RANDOMLY. I've done it at the start of matches...while turning around from a dash...from trying to forward smash..whatever.

Along with...

Someone should try this:

1) Stand still with nothing pressed.
2) Pause the game.
3) With the game paused, push and hold fully in a direction to dash.
4) Un-pause and continue to hold the direction without doing anything else to begin a dash.

If able to sometimes trip this way I'd say it's most definitely random, since it's a controlled input and eliminates any chance of the timing of the input from neutral to dash position affecting it.

Did your test and I tripped =/
Random falling ftl

Test Results (done with pit):
Trip/Dash
1/16
1/130
1/120
1/79
1/25

 

[5150]

Point is random=/=no skill. In fact, one game magazine (EGM or Computer Gaming magazine) said crits help TF2 because it will end stalemates. Keep in mind that the game has a large competitive community.

Thing is, there are other competitive games that involve skill but still have random stuff. It doesn't hurt them in any way, so why is it a big deal for Smash Brothers?

ya cuz magazines are the ultimate authority on competitive games..... :/

if you don't know why random = bad for comp play then you shouldn't post.

I'm not a competitive player to the point that I would whine about something obviously put into the game for comedic effect, like tripping. I don't spend hours a day scrutinizing every aspect of the game to control everything and boast my skill over others, nor do I play any game for money.

Call me a casual, call me a scrub, call me whatever derogatory insult you wish - I believe somewhere along the line you've lost sight of just what Smash is... a game. Something made for entertainment.

"You claim people have more fun when they control less about the game."
You honestly have fun when you're focused on controlling everything about the game?
If all of your focus is centered on control, how do you enjoy it?

"Competitive games are supposed to be based off of skill. If two players have similar skill, then luck factors can easily turn the match upside down, and cause for someone to win when they would have otherwise lost. There is nothing skillful about luck."
Then why did they add tripping? Why did they add items, explosive capsules, and all the stages that have random effects? Smash is and always has been a game that embraced unpredictability.

"If, as everything we've seen up to now suggests, that tripping is completely random, then matches will be won and lost over it, ones with high stakes, and it would detract from the value of the game for competitive gaming."
Maybe you shouldn't use Smash for such uber-competitive gaming?

"Smash has always been more than just a party game, and we want it to continue that trend."
Smash has always been a game for entertainment, a game with many options that allow people to play how they want. I don't really have a right to criticize you, I guess, but that doesn't mean I can't put forward my opinion.

"If you don't understand that, don't post here."
I'll stop posting if I'm deemed to have broken the rules on this site - which would undoubtedly lead to me being banned.

Please, people. Please, let me point out that you are all getting bent out of shape over a comedic effect. Please don't take it so seriously. I honestly believe Smash was not meant to be taken so seriously.

this is a ****** fanboy post. ignore it.

 

[M.K]

LAWL, can't you see Pokemon Trainer *facepalming* at the sight of Charizard tripping/

 

[Heavyarms2050]

im going to take a guess why you trip, you tilt (walk) in one direction, they smash (run) the other direction

 

[Phyvo]

That was ruled out already, I'm afraid. You can trip by putting the stick at neutral, pausing, moving it to the forward position, and unpausing. No walking involved.

 

[SLH]

hmm... if the trip cancel is still in, perhaps you could react fast enough to tripping and cancel it with a move? annoying, but if you can it would give an edge to people who know how to. i've only tripped once while playing so far and it was in my very first match. how quickly/suddenly does it happen, and does it vary between characters?

 

[Hitaku]

Again this tripping is stupid, but like I said its fast to roll out of. In "some" cases you are going to be owned by it, nothing can be done there. But I think that this is just going to bring forward less fox trotting and more aerial game.

As far as some characters tripping more then others, I highly doubt that it's character based. The only way that would be true is if you counted the characters with more aerial game vs the characters with better ground game.

I really think that players are just going to look for ways around it. For all of those worried about this breaking the game, I would like to say that I am playing Brawl as "pro" as anyone else at the moment. As they are found I implement advanced techs into my play and I play purely for the competitive scene. Like I stated before, I have YET to come close to losing a match due to a trip. Yeah, it could happen...but when stocks get close and its really down to the wire, I try and throw in some more air game and make my ground game really count. Keep in mind I'm not saying at high percents I can't attack from the ground, I just understand the rough 1/60 chance for a trip so I make it count. I would say with all the aerial game combined with the ground game I trip about once per match, thats something I can deal with.

A tip for all players is to remember to smash with the C - Stick. This trip is caused by hitting the direction stick forward and nothing else (as far as we know atm), doing smashes with the C stick will lower your chances of tripping in a match by the number of smashes you do.

hmm... if the trip cancel is still in, perhaps you could react fast enough to tripping and cancel it with a move? annoying, but if you can it would give an edge to people who know how to. i've only tripped once while playing so far and it was in my very first match. how quickly/suddenly does it happen, and does it vary between characters?

I have tried to cancel it with all sorts of combinations, so far I have found nothing. It could...be due to timing, can't say for sure there. I will probably do some more test runs for canceling soon. At the moment however, chances for canceling look bad =/

 

[Dark Sonic]

Just an idea, but is it possible to tech out of tripping? Has anyone really tested it? The only way I could see to feasibly test it is to simply dash and try to tech every time. Eventually you'll have to trip right? Just make sure you wait a second or so to make sure that you can tech again.

Speaking of which, has anybody tested that? Can you tech multiple times within 40 frames (2/3 of a second) or do you have to wait 40 frames before you can press L to successfully tech again?

 

[Hitaku]

Just an idea, but is it possible to tech out of tripping? Has anyone really tested it? The only way I could see to feasibly test it is to simply dash and try to tech every time. Eventually you'll have to trip right? Just make sure you wait a second or so to make sure that you can tech again.

Nope, can't tech out of it.

Sadly if there was a way to cancel this drop it would need to be in the falling animation. That animation is so dang fast (because its random) that I doubt people would have the reaction time for it. =/ I will keep looking though.

Update: It seems that you won't need to worry about hitting C-Stick while rolling. Tested 500 rolls and it seems that when rolling you can't trip.

 

[Hitzel]

I'm sure Ink is proud of his "adv tech" now, goes to show you better be careful when you hastily name a move after yourself

He didn't name it after himself...

 

[the656]

I think its the replacement of melee of when you did it in melee you would run really slow in the direction you turned

 

[cultofrubik]

It'll be interesting if this is a gamechanger. But by the looks of things up till now, it doesn't appear to be. So lets hope it stays that way. Tripping just seems so silly to be here without the ability to turn it off.

I guess we're just going to have to wait and see for our own eyes and our own American copies of Brawl before we judge its effect on gameplay. Hmm....?

 

[SLH]

it definitely won't be game breaking, just a minor annoyance. compare it to a phantom hit

 

[Hitaku]

Ok, so I did some more tests and I still can't find any way to cancel it, however...I now have a rough percentage that this trip occurs on.

Test Results (done with pit):
Trip/Dash
1/16
1/130
1/120
1/79
1/25
1/215

Test Results (done with Ike):
Trip/Dash
1/71
1/214
1/143
1/147
1/91
1/90

Test Results (done with Toon Link):
Trip/Dash
1/51
1/74
1/12
1/212
1/51
1/174

Test Results (done with Lucario):
Trip/Dash
1/211
1/75
1/15
1/129
1/124
1/196

Test Results (done with Sonic):
Trip/Dash
1/23
1/110
1/362
1/56
1/112
1/15

Through this data I pressed forward 3343 times and tripped 30 times. Unless my math is wrong that means we have around a .9% chance to trip when pressing forward. Seeing as this was just a small collection of data I would be willing to say that the real percent Sakurai implemented was 1%.

Also, as you can see the numbers really range depending on what character you are. Because of this I highly doubt anything about this trip is character based.

 

[Twisted]

Thanks for the tests Hitaku. I think since we have established tripping is entirely random we should put our effort into finding out what to do when we do trip. Whether it's "teching" it as we saw on the first page, or "canceling" it somehow as we've heard from multiple people.

 

[Project Occasus]

Perhaps the only solution is having more matches, or longer matches to decide winners in tounaments?

For instance, if we got the horrible scenario of tripping before w inning blow and then losing, perhaps we could do best 2 out of 3s or something? I'd imagine the person with more skill would become a little more apparent.

This is wishful thinking though, because there's bound to be people who are EXTREMELY evenly matched. But it seems to be the only feasible solution.

 

[Hitzel]

If there's a set value for the % chance of tripping, it'd be very easy to patch that value to 0% if there's enough public opposition to tripping.

 

[Hitaku]

Ok, I may have some new/positive information. There are two parts to this trip...we have the first part which is where you tumble and then the second where you are found on your butt. I never really noticed it before but it looks like when you are in the tumble you MAY have invincibility frames. Now I know thats not for a very long period of time...but when you are on your butt you can roll out. So...assuming that we have some very good reaction speed...we could theoretically be safe from harm's way when we fall. I know that the trip itself is still lame, but in my opinion its MUCH less lame if you can be safe while it happens.

When the character trips I can see some form of flashing on him but I can't test whether they are invincibility frames or not until I have my friend come over tonight. Either way, I will be letting you all know.

 

[SqueakyMetal]

i just got an idea.
mabye when you trip, it isn't something you did (ie punishment) but mabye its something your oppenent did.
idk mabye when they r active and moving the % chance goes up, and when they r idle its at 1%

or mabye when its when they do the same move as you and you happened to press it a little to late( this would make going out of idle equivalent to an in idle position and is highly unlikely)

Im just shooting for any posibility at this point and im wishing to the stars that its not random and that the data is magicly wrong.

 

[No Limitz]

i just got an idea.
mabye when you trip, it isn't something you did (ie punishment) but mabye its something your oppenent did.
idk mabye when they r active and moving the % chance goes up, and when they r idle its at 1%

or mabye when its when they do the same move as you and you happened to press it a little to late( this would make going out of idle equivalent to an in idle position and is highly unlikely)

Im just shooting for any posibility at this point and im wishing to the stars that its not random and that the data is magicly wrong.

That wouldn't work because you can trip in training

 

[SqueakyMetal]

do you randomly trip during the SSE also?
or is it just with training/vs mode?


umm srry for the ignorance, it's just that i've only seen it done in vs mode, and I havent been watching much SSE play