Tripping (ink dropping)

[Libomasus]

You have to wonder though, if it was opponent based which opponent would it be based on in a FFA? Its just reliant on all four characters, the closest one?

 

[Hitaku]

do you randomly trip during the SSE also?
or is it just with training/vs mode?


umm srry for the ignorance, it's just that i've only seen it done in vs mode, and I havent been watching much SSE play

To be honest I don't remember, but I could only assume they are the same.

i just got an idea.
mabye when you trip, it isn't something you did (ie punishment) but mabye its something your oppenent did.
idk mabye when they r active and moving the % chance goes up, and when they r idle its at 1%

or mabye when its when they do the same move as you and you happened to press it a little to late( this would make going out of idle equivalent to an in idle position and is highly unlikely)

Im just shooting for any posibility at this point and im wishing to the stars that its not random and that the data is magicly wrong.

Sadly I highly doubt thats the case. I would say from all of my matches (1v1, teams, ffa) that the 1% seems correct. It would be nice if it wasn't random, but thats how its looking.

 

[gnosis]

Naw guys this is just realistic. I mean if you get in a real fight there's always the chance that you could mess up and trip so I applaud this decision.

 

[StellaNova]

Hitaku, have you tried dashing with the control stick in the diagonal direction, opposed to the straight, 180 degrees horizontal direction to see if this alters the percentage? I mean to say, have you been very careful with how you're holding the control stick, and if so, then do you think running the tests at the diagonal position would change anything?

 

[ComradeSAL]

I can't believe you guys are complaining so much about something that will only affect the outcome of maybe a tenth of a percent of all matches. Compare this to poker; if someone calls you all-in preflop with 72o vs. your AA you are only about 90% to win. Yet, professionals make millions at the game by playing better than their opponents.

Is tripping stupid? Yes. Is it funny? Yes. Do I wish it hadn't been put in? Yes. Is it worth crying over? No.

 

[Vijin]

I can't believe you guys are complaining so much about something that will only affect the outcome of maybe a tenth of a percent of all matches. Compare this to poker; if someone calls you all-in preflop with 72o vs. your AA you are only about 90% to win. Yet, professionals make millions at the game by playing better than their opponents.

Is tripping stupid? Yes. Is it funny? Yes. Do I wish it hadn't been put in? Yes. Is it worth crying over? No.

You obviously don't get it.

 

[G-X]

Two questions:

1. Does it give you any invincibility frames?

2. How soon can you roll out of it?

3. Does it have any lag when you come out of it?

 

[ComradeSAL]

You obviously don't get it.

Ok, explain it to me, then.

* I understand that it adds randomness to the game.
* I understand that this randomness may influence the outcome of a match, causing the worse player to win.
* I understand that the probability of this actually happening is astronomically low.

From the videos I've watched someone trips maybe one out of every 10 matches. In these matches the times that the opponent can actually take advantage of this trip are maybe 1 in 10. For the times the opponent can actually take advantage of trip, the times that this goes on to be the influencing factor in the game is maybe 1 in 50.

.1 * .1 * .02 = who cares?

This is, of course, assuming that tripping is in fact completely random and that there is no way to control it.

 

[Nicktendo]

Random tripping is so dumb...

 

[Vijin]

Ok, explain it to me, then.

* I understand that it adds randomness to the game.
* I understand that this randomness may influence the outcome of a match, causing the worse player to win.
* I understand that the probability of this actually happening is astronomically low.

Those are pretty much the main reasons right there.
Even though the chance of that happening is pretty low (by the looks of it) it has the ability to change the out come of the match, which is why a lot of people don't like it. At a high stakes match where it's down to the last few hits, you could trip and get punished for it... or you could trip and thus not be able to get the killing blow on your opponent. A missed opportunity.

That, and just the thought of it is just plain annoying.

 

[BossNasty73]

Well, It has changed many an outcome in my matches with my friends. I dont like it merely for the fact that as people get better, more and more people will be punished when they trip. Its not too big of a problem now but eventually...

 

[Tatsujinken]

Honestly, who's the genius who thought of this idea?

"Hey let's have the players randomly fall on their faces during matches! It'll be funny HURRR!"

I am so worried...

 

[Rang Flash]

It was probably one of Sakurai's ideas to encourage aerial battles.

 

[Hitaku]

Hitaku, have you tried dashing with the control stick in the diagonal direction, opposed to the straight, 180 degrees horizontal direction to see if this alters the percentage? I mean to say, have you been very careful with how you're holding the control stick, and if so, then do you think running the tests at the diagonal position would change anything?

I have been very careful when preforming the tests yes. I honestly doubt that changing the control sticks direction would have any impact. Either way you press it you are signaling the command to go forward or backwards. Its not the stick itself thats causing this trip, its the input to move forwards or backwards.

Good to see people trying to come up with ways around this though. If someone posts something that I think could have an impact I would be happy to test it out.

 

[David the Great]

Have you tried testing with the character at a different damage percentage? Say, do character trip just as likely at 300 % as they are at the beginning of the match?

Personally I don't think this whole random tripping thing is that bad (you still need skill to win a game of Mah-Jong and poker) but it would certainly leave a bad taste if I ended up losing an important game over this.

 

[Hitaku]

So, new news for all of you regarding the invincibility frames on the trip. Now before I go into detail, I apologize for how vague this is going to be...but I'm really not sure how I can get better results on something so dang random.

The trip does indeed provide the character with some invincibility frames. I can't tell you the number because sadly I don't know how to get that kind of information. If I had to guess, I would say that it lasts the entire fall, right until you land on your butt. What this means as far as I can tell is that assuming you could react fast enough and you rolled out of it right away, you could stop yourself from being punished for the most part.

This test was done on Final Destination using Fox and Ike. I had fox stand in the corner and spam lasers at Ike, while Ike run around the stage dash dancing. When he tripped he temporarily stopped taking laser damage.

Have you tried testing with the character at a different damage percentage? Say, do character trip just as likely at 300 % as they are at the beginning of the match?

I have tried doing the test at 300% like you asked, I only ran it until 4 trips because it seems to be around the same percent.

Test Results (done with Ike 300%):
Trip/Dash
1/94
1/121
1/134
1/76

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Can Fox' lasers hit people while they're on the ground? Because if that isn't the case, the cause might not have been invincibility frames, but just lying on the ground.

 

[WastingPenguins]

From the videos I've watched someone trips maybe one out of every 10 matches.

Are we watching the same videos? I've been watching a lot of Brawl vids and it's rare for a match to go without a few trips from what I've seen.

 

[juddapudda]

can it be teched?

 

[Angrylobster]

Stupidest addition ever? I'd have to say yes

WHO thought this was a good idea? And how did it manage to actually get implemented into the game?

 

[Hitaku]

Can Fox' lasers hit people while they're on the ground? Because if that isn't the case, the cause might not have been invincibility frames, but just lying on the ground.

Yes they can, they continue hitting him once he is sitting, they only stop for a second (during the falling animation).

can it be teched?

No, but I believe if you are fast enough you can roll right out of it.

 

[flyingmule]

Considering that you can pretty much instantly roll out of it, this isn't that big of a deal. If you are paying attention and cancel it, tripping will do absolutely nothing.

 

[otter]

its from trying to dash dance you just fall down if you try

Although I admit I HAVE NOT played the game, this seems logical to me. I think it's sort of like damage reduction, Sakurai's way of bashing "cheaters"

 

[I.T.P]

Considering that you can pretty much instantly roll out of it, this isn't that big of a deal. If you are paying attention and cancel it, tripping will do absolutely nothing.

the point is most of the time you don't see it coming, and instead of attacking a coming enemy, you'll trip and he'll land his attack full force on. that's the problem with it.

 

[ComradeSAL]

From the sound of it, reacting to the trips may be a test of skill in and of themselves.

Are we watching the same videos? I've been watching a lot of Brawl vids and it's rare for a match to go without a few trips from what I've seen.

It's quite possible I just haven't been noticing them. For those that have played the game, how often does one person generally trip in a 1v1 3 stock match?

 

[Zauron]

I'd say on average I trip about once a stock, maybe a little less.

 

[Zek]

I think it's unlikely that tripping is going to get you killed directly, but it's more a problem on the offense. You could very easily screw up a golden opportunity for a combo or a free smash because the game decided to make you trip instead. It seems like it'll mostly just be a minor nuisance but it's obnoxious that there's no way to turn it off.

 

[mooseproduce]

Worst game design choice ever?

 

[extremejon]

You haven't played many games, have you Moose?

 

[Zig-Zag!]

If a pikachu trips in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?

 

[skullkidd]

If a pikachu trips in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?

HA.

Anyway, if tripping does show to be random, and you just trip in the middle of a pwnage combo, I will be thoroughly disappointed.

 

[Hitaku]

Worst game design choice ever?

As far as the smash bros series goes, I would agree.

If a pikachu trips in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?

Win =D

HA.

Anyway, if tripping does show to be random, and you just trip in the middle of a pwnage combo, I will be thoroughly disappointed.

It is random, and that can happen.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Well, we'll just have to make sure to stay on the ground as little as possible.

way to go Sakurai [/sarcasm]

 

[WastingPenguins]

I think it's unlikely that tripping is going to get you killed directly, but it's more a problem on the offense. You could very easily screw up a golden opportunity for a combo or a free smash because the game decided to make you trip instead. It seems like it'll mostly just be a minor nuisance but it's obnoxious that there's no way to turn it off.

So THAT'S why Sakurai removed combos from Brawl. So he could incorporate his revolutionary new Random Tripping system without anyone getting mad that it interrupted their attack.

 

[Gum]

ok ok ok, time to shed some light.

NO, tripping is NOT random. It happens as a result of either 1) Changing direction to abruptly, but also at the wrong time so that you dont do a correct dash dance or 2) You mash a direction to abruptly without an actual move command, i.e. if you screw up as the player, and mash forward without B or A at the perfect time. Its basically "do this right, or prepare for shenanigans."

Can you cancel it? YES PEOPLE. How you ask? As a character trips, you will notice a frame at which point the character sort of spins or flips onto their ***. This is the point where a well timed grab or up B can be done. This whole tripping thing was more than likely added as a way to make dash dancing more difficult, as well as to punish the player for not being precise. This game is supposed to bridge the gap between casual and competitive players. Sakurai wants it so that if you are going to be competitive, you have to really earn it.

Anyways, yes it can be canceled. Its just a matter of being freakishly good enough to do it.

Heres the most important point though: Canceling it is very difficult, and was more than likely not intentionally implemented by the developers. HOWEVER! tripping is, regardless of canceling, controllable and if mastered adds a whole different dynamic to a player's mind game skills. ITS A FEINT PEOPLE! think about it guys. every competitive fighter includes universal characteristics that enhance competitive play. Anyone recall feinting or stalling unblockables in soul caliber 2 on up? Highly advanced players use it all the time. If mastered, tripping could be used as a fake-out to force your opponents move, allowing you to read them and possibly go in for the win. When a character trips, they dont stay down but for a split second. it leaves great opportunity for you opponent to flinch just long enough for you to grab them which sets up for a finisher. In retrospect, I dont think canceling it is what the developers meant for us to do with tripping. learn how to do it, then use it as a mind game. dash at your opponent, make them go for the shield grab, then trip before you get to them and attack when they let it down to punish you, or grab if they leave the shield up.

 

[Zek]

ok ok ok, time to shed some light.

NO, tripping is NOT random. It happens as a result of either 1) Changing direction to abruptly, but also at the wrong time so that you dont do a correct dash dance or 2) You mash a direction to abruptly without an actual move command, i.e. if you screw up as the player, and mash forward without B or A at the perfect time. Its basically "do this right, or prepare for shenanigans."

Can you cancel it? YES PEOPLE. How you ask? As a character trips, you will notice a frame at which point the character sort of spins or flips onto their ***. This is the point where a well timed grab or up B can be done. This whole tripping thing was more than likely added as a way to make dash dancing more difficult, as well as to punish the player for not being precise. This game is supposed to bridge the gap between casual and competitive players. Sakurai wants it so that if you are going to be competitive, you have to really earn it.

Anyways, yes it can be canceled. Its just a matter of being good enough to do it.

ok ok ok, how do you know all that?

 

[leafgreen386]

ok ok ok, time to shed some light.

NO, tripping is NOT random. It happens as a result of either 1) Changing direction to abruptly, but also at the wrong time so that you dont do a correct dash dance or 2) You mash a direction to abruptly without an actual move command, i.e. if you screw up as the player, and mash forward without B or A at the perfect time. Its basically "do this right, or prepare for shenanigans."

Can you cancel it? YES PEOPLE. How you ask? As a character trips, you will notice a frame at which point the character sort of spins or flips onto their ***. This is the point where a well timed grab or up B can be done. This whole tripping thing was more than likely added as a way to make dash dancing more difficult, as well as to punish the player for not being precise. This game is supposed to bridge the gap between casual and competitive players. Sakurai wants it so that if you are going to be competitive, you have to really earn it.

Anyways, yes it can be canceled. Its just a matter of being good enough to do it.

The first cause... ok. We knew that. The second... um, what? How is the game to know you're not just dashing? There's more reason to press forward than to attack. When someone does a test and goes from a standstill to dashing, and a small percent of those ended up as trips, I don't see how you can attribute that to incorrect timing. It was the same action every time, and it was just a dash, with no other buttons involved. It's still random. The cancel news is good, however. Now we just need more people to confirm it.

 

[Gum]

check the edit to my original post. forgot to mention something very important before you guys responded.

And to answer that question, the game recognizes when you intend to dash and when you dont. as we know DD'ing is still in, but what some dont know is that it is different. To avoid tripping so much, one needs to gradually go into a dd, not just mash the stick in a direction. you get a good dd when you start your movement steadily, THEN mash back and forth. There is a difference in the amount of pressure you use when you start it.

 

[Zek]

check the edit to my original post. forgot to mention something very important before you guys responded.

And to answer that question, the game recognizes when you intend to dash and when you dont. as we know DD'ing is still in, but what some dont know is that it is different. To avoid tripping so much, one needs to gradually go into a dd, not just mash the stick in a direction. you get a good dd when you start your movement steadily, THEN mash back and forth. There is a difference in the amount of pressure you use when you start it.

Like I said, what have you done to verify this?

 

[ShortFuse]

Tripping doesn't have anything to with dashdancing. I happens at "random" intervals. I'm not sure but it's probably somethin like every 50th initial dash animation or dash

My character has tripped straight out of a dash, from standing still. There was no turning involved. Standing, dashed, tripped.

The best I've every done with consistency (one out of every 20 turns) is by dashing back and forth about 15 feet but when I'm turning, I sit the analog stick in neutral for a few ms and slowly push the other side. That's the best I've been able to reproduce but the more I try to make my character to trip, the more I realize it's really random.