Data Tracking the Ninja - Greninja Video Thread

[elusiveTranscendent]

I got destroyed by a really good Bowser Jr.

 

[Makani]

I got destroyed by a really good Bowser Jr.

Are you fastfalling those NAirs? I see you got grabbed alot out of them.

 

[Funkermonster]

A tournament match I had yesterday, playing a decent D3 player. I switched to Pac-Man afterwards, I think were pretty good sets.

Sm4sh Wii U tournament matches: http://youtu.be/1N9Yx3cMYZs

Any feedback helps! Also got more videos of me getting trashed by A great Villager and 2 awesome Ness players, when they upload it from th stream.

 

[Makani]

Figured i'd share this for the hell of it. Just a funny clip, nothing amazing.

Here, have a bonus video too.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Are you fastfalling those NAirs? I see you got grabbed alot out of them.

I've probably been doing the input incorrectly the entire time. .-. That or I didn't jab after I landed.

 

[Kite0692]

Here's a vid of me doing a little string and then killing with a mid air shadow sneak. They're pretty hard to land but awesome when you get it off

Wait, where's the shadow on the floor? didn't see it lol. It was a nice kill.

I got destroyed by a really good Bowser Jr.

I think you had the same flaw over and over.
I will be honest, I have never played against that character, but I can tell some things in general.

-Try to play more patient.
-Stop playing so careless. You seem to play like you just wanna hit him, throwin' unsafe moves over and over (like the Usmash over and over, and at 1.34 its a perfect example too when you tried to hit him with Nair instead of reaching the ledge)
-When using Nair its safer to land it behind him so he cant shield grab you.
-Use more Shuriken (without charging it)
-Go for the reads! Let's say, you hit Nair-Usmash at the start of the match like 2 or 3 times, then, later on the match everytime you hit him with Nair, he retreats or dodges (like around minute 4:00), those are the kind of things you need to look for and punish.

Just tryin' to help a little, not trying to do anything that isn't help btw.

I will try to upload some videos soon

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I think you had the same flaw over and over.
I will be honest, I have never played against that character, but I can tell some things in general.

-Try to play more patient.
-Stop playing so careless. You seem to play like you just wanna hit him, throwin' unsafe moves over and over (like the Usmash over and over, and at 1.34 its a perfect example too when you tried to hit him with Nair instead of reaching the ledge)
-When using Nair its safer to land it behind him so he cant shield grab you.
-Use more Shuriken (without charging it)
-Go for the reads! Let's say, you hit Nair-Usmash at the start of the match like 2 or 3 times, then, later on the match everytime you hit him with Nair, he retreats or dodges (like around minute 4:00), those are the kind of things you need to look for and punish.

Just tryin' to help a little, not trying to do anything that isn't help btw.

Oh nonono. Don't even have an inkling you're being a bother.

Yeah. I think me playing over-aggressive is probably my Achilles-heel. (Is that what it's called?) I am not patient, at all. .-.

I didn't bother to use shurikens as much during this because of Bowser Jr.'s ranged options. Not really ideal when his little koopa-bomb-things eat up uncharged shurikens.

Also, reading. That's a thing I need to work on.

Thanks for pointing all of that out. Always useful when somebody points me in the right direction!

 

[Funkermonster]

Oh nonono. Don't even have an inkling you're being a bother.

Yeah. I think me playing over-aggressive is probably my Achilles-heel. (Is that what it's called?) I am not patient, at all. .-.

I didn't bother to use shurikens as much during this because of Bowser Jr.'s ranged options. Not really ideal when his little koopa-bomb-things eat up uncharged shurikens.

Also, reading. That's a thing I need to work on.

Thanks for pointing all of that out. Always useful when somebody points me in the right direction!

You know you can just pick up the mechakoopas and use them against him, right? His ranged options are actually not that good once you know this, and his other projectile is terrible since its slow and telegraphed. He also doesn't have any safe approach options, which I think is kind of a shame and hurts him as a character quite a bit.

 

[Kite0692]

Oh nonono. Don't even have an inkling you're being a bother.

Yeah. I think me playing over-aggressive is probably my Achilles-heel. (Is that what it's called?) I am not patient, at all. .-.

I didn't bother to use shurikens as much during this because of Bowser Jr.'s ranged options. Not really ideal when his little koopa-bomb-things eat up uncharged shurikens.

Also, reading. That's a thing I need to work on.

Thanks for pointing all of that out. Always useful when somebody points me in the right direction!

Oh okay. If you don't know how to start working in your reads, start doing this: try using more Uthrow and inmediatly double jump Uair or SH uair (depending on the height), people will start using dodge or use double jump. Once they start using dodge, then use Uair and just sit there and wait for the dodge (at low %, and if its higher then jump and just wait for it), if its near the floor you can regrab Uair, if its not, then use Usmash if you can, or Uair.

The double jump option is viable depending the character you are playing against. Lets say: against Bowser its a bad option for them to waste their double jump because you can reach them using double jump, but against characters like Yoshi, or those who has ridiculous aerial movility, its bad in general using Up throw because they can get out really easy.

So, once you start getting it, you will feel when your opponent will dodge, or will double jump or do any option. It works the same for rolls and stepdodges. Just be patient.

 

[David Galanos]

Oh nonono. Don't even have an inkling you're being a bother.

Yeah. I think me playing over-aggressive is probably my Achilles-heel. (Is that what it's called?) I am not patient, at all. .-.

I didn't bother to use shurikens as much during this because of Bowser Jr.'s ranged options. Not really ideal when his little koopa-bomb-things eat up uncharged shurikens.

Also, reading. That's a thing I need to work on.

Thanks for pointing all of that out. Always useful when somebody points me in the right direction!

I have the same issue, I can be over aggressive and not read as much

 

[Conda]

Pit v Greninja I commentated (and played in)

 

[Shack]

Are you fastfalling those NAirs? I see you got grabbed alot out of them.

SHFF NAir isn't safe on block and can be shield grabbed by some characters.

 

[Funkermonster]

In addition to that video I uploaded earlier against a , I also played on a twitch stream right here: http://www.twitch.tv/gamingzoneaz/b/598881612

As Greninja, I lost every match I played on Stream (although I did fine on the non-streamed matches beforehand, but I couldn't record one ) and I need advice, to make sure I don't lose like that again next time, and am looking for more critique for improvements. Its on stream, so it's in better quality than my own videos:

vs. Joel skip to 4:16.04. I switched to afterwards and made a HUGE comeback.

vs. a really good around 5:06.16, this is where my tournament wins came to an end

vs. another good Ness 5:57.00 where I ultimately lost the tourney and tasted the bitterness of defeat

I'm need of serious help now, anything works so I can prepare for next time. Looks like I was right, I'm not improving much with . One of the commentators said he didn't find my Greninja that good, though the other said I look like I'm pretty decent and what separated me from most other ninjas was my use of Nair. The news after rewatching that is slightly depressing to me honestly

 

[Dendros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upaRfziKh5c
against, This is how to space with shurikens!

 

[FullMoon]

Jesus, I simply cannot control Greninja that well. That's absolutely crazy.

 

[David Galanos]

Yeah he's doing b reversals. I've been trying to do them more but not consistently

 

[MartinAW4]

Here`s a video of a very good Greninja player. He took 2 games off ZeRo`s DK. I really like his spotdodge -> Utilt setups. The Greninja games start at 13:13.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1TAg7e_8dM

 

[Oblivion129]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upaRfziKh5c
against, This is how to space with shurikens!

Oh man. I've been doing B-reversals but those are wavebounces! He presses the opposite direction before the B and right after the B he presses forward. I'll try to be consistent with that.

 

[BlinkIV]

Hey guys, I had a pretty good match vs Bwett's Captain Falcon on Friday. The video has not been uploaded, but when it does I would like a bit of critique on the match. To know what I'm doing wrong and if there is anything I could improve on with my Greninja. This is my day 3 Greninja btw

 

[Funkermonster]

Here's a video of a tournament Greninja match with a player named Riko. I'm not sure whether he's good or not, but he sure made great use of RAR Bairs if you ask me (how do you land those so consistently?)

Also to bump my earlier post back on that twitch stream, I'm still looking for advice on where to improve next.

In addition to that video I uploaded earlier against a , I also played on a twitch stream right here: http://www.twitch.tv/gamingzoneaz/b/598881612

As Greninja, I lost every match I played on Stream (although I did fine on the non-streamed matches beforehand, but I couldn't record one ) and I need advice, to make sure I don't lose like that again next time, and am looking for more critique for improvements. Its on stream, so it's in better quality than my own videos:

vs. Joel skip the video to 4:16.04. I switched to afterwards and made a HUGE comeback.

vs. a really good around 5:06.16, this is where my tournament wins came to an end

vs. another good Ness 5:57.00 where I ultimately lost the tourney and tasted the bitterness of defeat

I'm need of serious help now, anything works so I can prepare for next time. Looks like I was right, I'm not improving much with . One of the commentators said he didn't find my Greninja that good, though the other said I look like I'm pretty decent and what separated me from most other ninjas was my use of Nair. The news after rewatching that is slightly depressing to me honestly

I know, its annoying how I'm bringing back my posts and I kind of feel bad for doing this, but I still feel like I've reached a roadblock that won't let me improve my progress without any advice and I'm kind of desperate for it now. I hate it when my posts get overlooked like this.... And I have two bonus videos (against and players) from the tournament I can use for criticism as well, although I'd say these opponents weren't NEARLY as tough as the ones I played on stream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N9Yx3cMYZs&index=15&list=UU0RMA482bkRmw4pukDNhPgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv5x5pLXIjo&index=14&list=UU0RMA482bkRmw4pukDNhPgQ

Also a little funny note: According to the commentators, it looks like I was the only one (or one of the very few) in the tournament who played Greninja! The tournamnt I went to was rather diverse with plenty of mid tier characters being used, instead of just tens of people playing the current Top Tiers like Diddy, Sheik, and Rosalina. Still, any critique on what I should improve on next would be awesome, and then I'll shut up!

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Here's a video of a tournament Greninja match with a player named Riko. I'm not sure whether he's good or not, but he sure made great use of RAR Bairs if you ask me (how do you land those so consistently?)

Also to bump my earlier post back on that twitch stream, I'm still looking for advice on where to improve next.


I know, its annoying how I'm bringing back my posts and I kind of feel bad for doing this, but I still feel like I've reached a roadblock that won't let me improve my progress without any advice and I'm kind of desperate for it now. I hate it when my posts get overlooked like this.... And I have two bonus videos (against and players) from the tournament I can use for criticism as well, although I'd say these opponents weren't NEARLY as tough as the ones I played on stream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N9Yx3cMYZs&index=15&list=UU0RMA482bkRmw4pukDNhPgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv5x5pLXIjo&index=14&list=UU0RMA482bkRmw4pukDNhPgQ

Also a little funny note: According to the commentators, it looks like I was the only one (or one of the very few) in the tournament who played Greninja! The tournamnt I went to was rather diverse with plenty of mid tier characters being used, instead of just tens of people playing the current .

Top Tiers like Diddy, Sheik, and Rosalina. Still, any critique on what I should improve on next would be awesome, and then I'll shut up!

I'll give them a look when I get home.

...Provided that I remember to do so. .—.

Also, not really the best at analyzing gameplay, so...

Edit: crap I forgot about this

 

[BlinkIV]

So here's a match from our last weekly I was in. This was with a day 3 Greninja so I was still getting a "feel" for everything. I can see I made some obvious mistakes from re-watching but I'd love some feedback from you guys. =)

 

[Funkermonster]

I'll give them a look when I get home.

...Provided that I remember to do so. .—.

Also, not really the best at analyzing gameplay, so...

Edit: crap I forgot about this

That's alright, I can wait! Any analysis works since I'm basically desperate for just about any advice! Looking forward to it!

 

[MartinAW4]

So here's a match from our last weekly I was in. This was with a day 3 Greninja so I was still getting a "feel" for everything. I can see I made some obvious mistakes from re-watching but I'd love some feedback from you guys. =)

Wow, you`re really good. I can`t believe you`ve managed to learn Greninja this well in only 3 days.

Some things I`ve noticed that you could improve are:
- at 0:18 you started off with a Nair -> Grab -> Uthrow -> short hop fast fall Uair -> Uair combo for 32% damage which you could have extended even more with a Dtilt after the Nair. And after the SHFF Uair, the opponent was in range of a sweetspot Usmash which could then be possibly followed up by an Uair with little time for the opponent to airdodge. So the whole combo would be:
Nair -> Dtilt -> dash grab -> Uthrow -> SHFF Uair -> sweetspot Usmash -> Uair which would deal 58% damage.

- at 1:58 you, at 129% grabbed the opponent who was at 137% after 2 pummels and you used Fthrow to send him off stage and deal 5% damage. However with that much rage, Uthrow kills Captain Falcon at 142% on FD, so on Smashville which I assume has lower ceilings, Uthrow might have killed even at 137% or 139% if you added one more pummel. This is where the extra Dtilt in your first combo could have been game changing since it would have added 7% more damage to guarantee the Uthrow kill.

- at 4:53 you used Dair and missed the Fair follow up because you used the Fair too late. At 88% Dair -> Fair is a guaranteed combo if you use the Fair immediately after Dair, so next time anticipate the possibility of a Fair follow up as soon as you land the Dair which will make it easier for you to land the Fair in time.
Also the knockback angle on Dair depends on where you hit the opponent with it. It can either send the opponent in front of you like in the video or behind you. If they are sent behind you, you cannot follow up with Fair, but you can use Bair instead which is also a true combo.

You`re already one of the best american Greninja players I`ve seen so far, so I`m looking forward to your future matches once you practice with Greninja even more.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Here's a video of a tournament Greninja match with a player named Riko. I'm not sure whether he's good or not, but he sure made great use of RAR Bairs if you ask me (how do you land those so consistently?)

Also to bump my earlier post back on that twitch stream, I'm still looking for advice on where to improve next.


I know, its annoying how I'm bringing back my posts and I kind of feel bad for doing this, but I still feel like I've reached a roadblock that won't let me improve my progress without any advice and I'm kind of desperate for it now. I hate it when my posts get overlooked like this.... And I have two bonus videos (against and players) from the tournament I can use for criticism as well, although I'd say these opponents weren't NEARLY as tough as the ones I played on stream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N9Yx3cMYZs&index=15&list=UU0RMA482bkRmw4pukDNhPgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv5x5pLXIjo&index=14&list=UU0RMA482bkRmw4pukDNhPgQ

Also a little funny note: According to the commentators, it looks like I was the only one (or one of the very few) in the tournament who played Greninja! The tournamnt I went to was rather diverse with plenty of mid tier characters being used, instead of just tens of people playing the current Top Tiers like Diddy, Sheik, and Rosalina. Still, any critique on what I should improve on next would be awesome, and then I'll shut up!

From the twitch fights I watched, you seem to get punished a lot when trying to land. You seemed to use nair a bit when landing, which is pretty good, but you should also switch it up. If they're expecting the nair, dair and bounce off of their shield and you'll land safely back. Something like that.

I'm not good at this. Bleh. Sorry. .-.

 

[KingHerpOfDerp]

I would hate to toot my own horn but every Greninja I have seen in videos are incomparable to mine. I see most throw shurikens needlessly and without any followup, half not even doing their BnB, and not to mention doing the awful forward/back throws at low percentages. It makes me cringe every time an opportunity opens for a greninja to grab some booty and take it as far as he can go but doesn't do so.

 

[Spirst]

I would hate to toot my own horn but every Greninja I have seen in videos are incomparable to mine. I see most throw shurikens needlessly and without any followup, half not even doing their BnB, and not to mention doing the awful forward/back throws at low percentages. It makes me cringe every time an opportunity opens for a greninja to grab some booty and take it as far as he can go but doesn't do so.

If you have nothing to contribute other than an ego stroke (without any videos for justification), I'd advise against making a post. Constructive feedback and video posts are welcome. Saying you would hate to toot your own horn then having a whole post doing just that isn't.

 

[MartinAW4]

From the twitch fights I watched, you seem to get punished a lot when trying to land. You seemed to use nair a bit when landing, which is pretty good, but you should also switch it up. If they're expecting the nair, dair and bounce off of their shield and you'll land safely back. Something like that.

I'm not good at this. Bleh. Sorry. .-.

For landing safely, Greninja has a very good trick. When you reach about full hop height use Hydro Pump straight downwards and away from the opponent. The first pump will push you quickly to the ground and the second one will push you away from the opponent and push the opponent away from you. You have to practice it a bit to know the exact height when to use HP, but once you learn it, your landings will be practically unpunishable.

 

[KingHerpOfDerp]

If you have nothing to contribute other than an ego stroke (without any videos for justification), I'd advise against making a post. Constructive feedback and video posts are welcome. Saying you would hate to toot your own horn then having a whole post doing just that isn't.

Man, I wish people would read more than just the first sentence of my post.

I'm going to upload some videos of me and my brother duking it out later tonight or tomorrow(If I can get Sony Vegas to download).

 

[KingHerpOfDerp]

Anon is delivering his due. A video, and how-do-you-do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SeH3hTSXKw

I hope this is helpful for anyone who watches.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Anon is delivering his due. A video, and how-do-you-do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SeH3hTSXKw

I hope this is helpful for anyone who watches.

You can use shadow sneak's hitstun canceling properties to escape Sheik's ftilt lock.

Very nice use of utilt into bairs.

Also... the second fight gets cut off.

 

[KingHerpOfDerp]

You can use shadow sneak's hitstun canceling properties to escape Sheik's ftilt lock.

Very nice use of utilt into bairs.

Also... the second fight gets cut off.

I know, I realized it after I uploaded it to youtube.

 

[Oblivion129]

Anon is delivering his due. A video, and how-do-you-do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SeH3hTSXKw

I hope this is helpful for anyone who watches.

You should Fast Fall Nair, and fast fall more in general to be a lot faster.

 

[Spirst]

I agree. There were a number of full hop nairs I found strange that should've been punished more by the Sheik what with the end lag frames and small hitbox. SHFF is almost always better. Another thing I noticed was the dair usage being kinda overdone. It should be used in scenarios where you're certain you'll get since the end lag generally doesn't justify the risk (32 frames of landing lag). I also think there was a little too much fishing for smashes which vs Sheik. Is not really a good idea since she already has enough frame advantages as is.

For recovering, something you can do is save the shadow sneak until you get around stage level, DJ, then use it. A lot of Greninja's recover using shadow sneak for the initial horizontal distance and THEN jump. If you save the SS, you can reappear on the stage as opposed to the ledge. For the hydro pump, you got punished a few times for recovering high. I find the best use of it is to keep them guessing. Sweet spot the ledge sometimes and if they're guarding it, then you can try going over but try to avoid ever aiming the second pump in the air. Ideally, try something like: / \. The second pump thrusts you safely into the ground.

 

[KingHerpOfDerp]

I uploaded another video but this one is me fighting my brother's Villager. It's a half hour video .3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpeEQSxGxus

 

[Makani]

 

[Kite0692]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aZHUTuhn5A

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

So, I found the match that I was in for that tourney that was streamed. The one in which I got brutally massacred in front of people by a Sheik. You'll see my fifteen year old visage. Agh. ._.

I realized that I have barely any experience fighting good Sheiks after this.

But agh. Being on streams is terrifying. Plus, it being my first tourney experience made it even worse. Haha. xD

Also, guess who had the pleasure of fighting Dabuz and being horribly murdered? This guy!

 

[joaoTforce]

So, I found the match that I was in for that tourney that was streamed. The one in which I got brutally massacred in front of people by a Sheik. You'll see my fifteen year old visage. Agh. ._.

I realized that I have barely any experience fighting good Sheiks after this.

But agh. Being on streams is terrifying. Plus, it being my first tourney experience made it even worse. Haha. xD

Also, guess who had the pleasure of fighting Dabuz and being horribly murdered? This guy!

Oh dude I'm getting deja vu watching these matches. The SAME exact thing happened to me on smash ladder,but it was on 3ds.I also used some of your strategies too. the only difference is that I don't use nair or the shuriken that much. Also is it just me or do platforms not benefit greninja... like... at all?

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Oh dude I'm getting deja vu watching these matches. The SAME exact thing happened to me on smash ladder,but it was on 3ds.I also used some of your strategies too. the only difference is that I don't use nair or the shuriken that much. Also is it just me or do platforms not benefit greninja... like... at all?

You can kinda corkscrew up air into your opponent if an opponent is above you on a platform.