Tournament Rules

[The Cape]

As we all know the backroom makes tier lists, keeps up with tourney rules, and in our case keeps the game relatively balanced. I have here a list of standardized tourney rules that I think we should use and encourage others to use.


4 Stock
8 Mins
TA on

Stage Strike/ Stage Ban Rules:
Each player takes turns slashing a stage until a neutral is reached.

Dave's Stupid Rule:
You may not choose a stage that you have already won on previously in the set, unless opponent agrees.

Singles Neutrals:
Battlefield
Smashville
WW
PS2
YI
FD
Waiting Room

Singles CP:
PS1
Lylat
Halberd
big Blue
Pictochat (slower)
Frigate
Pirate ship (frozen)
Brinstar
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion (Slower)
Delphino
Mario Circuit
Castle Siege
Rainbow Cruise
Corneria (Bigger overall)
Green Greens (slower overall)
Big Blue (Slower overall)


Teams:
Switch WW and LM on random

We just need to fix the spawn points on Luigi's Mansion for teams and we are good to go.

 

[leafgreen386]

FD is on CP, yet YI is on random? Why?

I'm also uncertain about a few things on this list (or that aren't on this list) and think we should be looking into using the hitbox mod to fix up some stage hazards.

Like, I haven't played on big blue half speed yet, but I hear it has the same problem as corneria did when it was frozen - you normally have some kind of force acting on you to counteract the movement of the stage, but since the movement was slowed down (in cornera's case, removed completely), it begins feeling very awkward when you try to move around the stage, as if you're not landing where you should be landing.

Pirate ship could probably be fixed just by editing the catapult and bombs.

And whatever happened to spear pillar?

 

[goodoldganon]

How will we have our Fox vs Fox, no items, FINAL DESTINATION matches if it isn't a neutral?

EDIT: Should probably be serious...

Stages will always be argued on what is CP or Neutral but I think this is a pretty solid list, cept the whole Final D in the counterpick section.

 

[Almas]

I think that a strikethrough system should definitely be used.

Even the neutral maps greatly favour some characters, and as Brawl+ is somewhat a game of counterpicks (in both maps and characters), with increased balance, the first game has even more swing on how a set goes than before. The strikethrough system reduces the chance of, say, Marth getting to play on Battlefield in game 1.

Also I don't like the idea of Warioware being neutral, considering the boundaries on it. But ionno.

 

[The Cape]

If we can make that hole in spear pillar always there the stage would be great.

FD is on counterpick because we have so many other good options for neutrals and FD is not a neutral in the least. It leads to characters like Falco excelling due to the fact that they can run away and spam projectiles and never begin a fight. Without platforms it is too hard to approach on such stages.

The platform stages are more fair and regular which is why I put them on the random and not FD.


Almas, we increased the boundaries of WW, you dont die stupid low anymore.

 

[goodoldganon]

FD is on counterpick because we have so many other good options for neutrals and FD is not a neutral in the least. It leads to characters like Falco excelling due to the fact that they can run away and spam projectiles and never begin a fight. Without platforms it is too hard to approach on such stages.

The platform stages are more fair and regular which is why I put them on the random and not FD.

There is NO stage that doesn't benefit some characters more then others. Ike and the other sword users do great on platform stages. So do Snake and Ganondorf. DK does pretty well on platform stages too. All of these characters can set up platform traps very well, especially Snake. There are just as many characters that benefit from platforms as their are characters that benefit from a flat surface.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I'm gonna side with GoG here. FD is no better for Fox and Falco than Warioware is for Snake or ZSS. Really the only truely neutral stages imo are PS2 and Smashville. Not only that, but Cape...you need an odd number of neutrals in order to do the stage strike rule.

 

[leafgreen386]

I'm gonna side with GoG here. FD is no better for Fox and Falco than Warioware is for Snake or ZSS. Really the only truely neutral stages imo are PS2 and Smashville. Not only that, but Cape...you need an odd number of neutrals in order to do the stage strike rule.

No, he's talking about regular stage banning, not the stage strike system used in vb tournies.

 

[Dark Sonic]

No, he's talking about regular stage banning, not the stage strike system used in vb tournies.

Oh...well anyway I still think FD should still be on neutral. You say that you moved it to counterpick because projectile characters gain an advantage on it, but that logic can be applied to pretty much every stage in the game, including the other stages that YOU put on neutral (Warioware and Yoshi's island are no more neutral than FD)

 

[Deleted member]

ok people this seems to be the thread for it.

I just slapped a small code together that makes online waiting an avalible stage, and without our great sandbag.

-replaces *banned stage* with online waiting
-replaces sandbag with dollarbill (safe item that doesn't get picked up on pressing A, just walk over it)

gotta get the NTSC break from wiird forum but tell me what you think

EDIT

4A000000 8098D528
D2000000 00000003
2C060031 40820008
38C00005 60000000
90DD08C0 00000000
C26DCEE0 00000003
A37A0022 2C1B0020
40820008 3B600037
60000000 00000000

this is the NTSC code, replaces newpork in this case.
ofcourse goes untested. please report any issues so I can fix it.

 

[Almas]

So a frozen pictochat without using up pictochat? Sounds good. I mean I'd rather just have a frozen pictochat, but you know ;p.

We'd have to use spunit's custom SSS code. But that could already be useful for splitting maps up into Neutral/Counterpick (we could texture hack the Melee Stages/Brawl Stages to say Neutral Maps/Counterpick Maps, and arrange accordingly).

 

[Revven]

So a frozen pictochat without using up pictochat? Sounds good. I mean I'd rather just have a frozen pictochat, but you know ;p.

We'd have to use spunit's custom SSS code. But that could already be useful for splitting maps up into Neutral/Counterpick (we could texture hack the Melee Stages/Brawl Stages to say Neutral Maps/Counterpick Maps, and arrange accordingly).

That would be sick, we gotta do that.

Edit: I wasn't actually in favor of FD being CP, I thought about the curved edges more than anything as making it SORT OF a CP but, the curved edges aren't that big of a deal to make it a CP. Take it off CP, put it onto Neutral, take YI off of neutral and put that in CP. YI, IMO, has WAY more merits for it to be a CP. Let's break it down:

-Slanted edges that helps certain recoveries (Falcon RB and DK Up B come to mind)
-Sloped stage as a whole which distorts spacing and the way some moves work (Wolf side B, tilts)
-Tilting platform
-Ronnie randomly appears on both sides at any given time, be it to save someone from dying, to mess up edgeguarding, or to just BE there. This, IMO, is the worse part of this stage because it is a random element.

I cannot fathom why YI isn't a CP in vB other than it's "flat" and has no "hazardous" elements to it. To be quite frank, a lot of the things above feel more like CP material to me than neutral, especially when considering Ronnie (whatever you want to call him) appears randomly on either side to **** either the edgeguarder or the KO up (i.e a meteor smash let's say). It's the most random neutral and it needs to be a CP over FD.

Conclusion: YI becomes CP, FD becomes neutral.

 

[goodoldganon]

I'll look into that code Pap, roomamates are watching X2 atm though.

I agree with Falco about YI. It really is RIGHT there on the edge of neutral and CP. I say make it a Neutral/CP and it is up to the tournament director to choose.

 

[Almas]

Erm.

C298D528 00000003
2C060031 40820008
38C00005 60000000
90DD08C0 00000000
C26DCEE0 00000003
A37A0022 2C1B0020
40820008 3B600037
60000000 00000000

Previous code changed the PO without resetting it.

 

[kupo15]

So a frozen pictochat without using up pictochat? Sounds good. I mean I'd rather just have a frozen pictochat, but you know ;p.

We'd have to use spunit's custom SSS code. But that could already be useful for splitting maps up into Neutral/Counterpick (we could texture hack the Melee Stages/Brawl Stages to say Neutral Maps/Counterpick Maps, and arrange accordingly).

Sounds sweet. I would also like to see picto frozen as well

 

[CT Chia]

I disagree with a lot of what's said in the first post rules wise. Here is what I have settled on so far for BtL. Any comments?

4 stock
8 min

stage strike system for 1st match
each person bans one stage after 1st match

neutrals:
* Final Destination
* Battlefield
* Smashville
* Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
* Lylat Cruise
* Pokemon Stadium 2
* Wario Ware
cps:
* Delfino Plaza
* Frigate Orpheon
* Battleship Halberd
* Castle Siege
* Yoshi's Island (Melee)
* Jungle Japes
* Onett
* Corneria
* Rainbow Cruise
* Green Greens
* Brinstar
* Pokemon Stadium

The only one I'm really not sure about is Onett
Unlike most lists I'm not allowing Luigi's. It's stupid in teams until we get a spawn point code, and for singles it's just way too big. I used to like it, but not until I played a tourney set there ROB v DDD last tourney I was at (brawl+) and the timer ran out with both of us over 200%. Even when we hit each other with kill-like moves, proper DI could make it so you wouldn't die.

If we could make the spawm points change and make the blast zones smaller, Luigi's would perfect.
Additionally, can we make the blast zones a tad wider on WW?

 

[kupo15]

Blast zones on WW should already be wider. We also have a spawn point mod already

 

[Deleted member]

ofcourse, thanks for the fix almas.
the PAL version of the true item mod actually came in C2 format, but I just copy-pasted the NTSC version to be sure it worked.

 

[CT Chia]

Blast zones on WW should already be wider. We also have a spawn point mod already

ah, awesome. il have to try the latest codeset then later today

any word on making blast zones on luigis smaller? its just waaaaay too big.

 

[shanus]

I like Cape's updated OP now that is uses stage striking and diff levels.

 

[kupo15]

ah, awesome. il have to try the latest codeset then later today

any word on making blast zones on luigis smaller? its just waaaaay too big.

I actually never found them to be too big. I actually modded those blast zones to be further out then default because I am waiting for the stage code for that one

As for the different spawn points on luigi. Will this actually fix the frozen glitch at the beginning? I don't think it will. I think the only way to fix it might be to change the locations of the platforms

 

[Almas]

Oh, you used the True Item Mod? Might want to throw in a comparison to the current stage level to make sure that it only does that if you're playing on the waiting stage. I mean not that anyone would care.

 

[Deleted member]

why would that matter? the home run contest sandbag is a different ID anyway.

 

[Almas]

Oh, I didn't know that. What happens if you go into the Stadium? ;p.

 

[Deleted member]

will try that later

 

[CT Chia]

I actually never found them to be too big. I actually modded those blast zones to be further out then default because I am waiting for the stage code for that one

As for the different spawn points on luigi. Will this actually fix the frozen glitch at the beginning? I don't think it will. I think the only way to fix it might be to change the locations of the platforms

what? you made the boundries on luigi's BIGGER!?
luigis needs to be smaller on all 4 boundries, up down left and right
well, i guess down isnt too much of a problem, but up is the biggest problem

 

[kupo15]

what? you made the boundries on luigi's BIGGER!?
luigis needs to be smaller on all 4 boundries, up down left and right
well, i guess down isnt too much of a problem, but up is the biggest problem

Only left and right. We need a brawl version of dreamland anyway

 

[Deleted member]

no we don't

 

[kupo15]

why do we not?

 

[Deleted member]

becuase such far boundaries are ********. somple as that. and if it had to be a stage, why the mansion seriously >_>

10 >_>'s

 

[Revven]

Luigi's already makes my matches go to 2 minutes, extending the boundaries isn't... fun. Making them smaller and more normal like would be brilliant.

 

[CT Chia]

Only left and right. We need a brawl version of dreamland anyway

Besides the point that in comparison Luigi's is way bigger than Dreamland was to their respective games, making it even bigger than that is absurd. As Falco said his matches normally go to 2 minutes, my matches always run long there and I've ran the timer in tournament before.

It's choices like this that really discredit your own build of a Brawl+ codeset to me imo.

 

[kupo15]

It's choices like this that really discredit your own build of a Brawl+ codeset to me imo.

Umm yea, I have higher gravity so its not as much of a problem as you think horizontally I also did it with the expectation to get the stage size code to make the actual stage bigger which doesn't affect the blastzones, chibo. I haven't decided what to do about the top zones

>_>

 

[Foxy]

The only problem I have is that Warioware shouldn't be a neutral.

The extremely close sides makes it a great character-specific counterpick, and I've utilized it a number of times, but certain strategies and combos are just TOO effective there and kill to early.

To be concise, it has "gay" sides and should be a counterpick. It benefits certain characters far too much.

 

[kupo15]

have you tried it with the expanded death zones? I think its much more neutral now

 

[Yeroc]

Gosh Foxy, keep up, will you?

 

[Foxy]

Ahhh, sorry.

I should have known you guys would be on top of things like that. =D

I would be more up-to-date on the changes if I wasn't more busy with Melee.

 

[kupo15]

Which waiting room code do we use? Paprika's or the thing that Almas posted after?

 

[Deleted member]

almas code, I just blindly copied it from the txt file with old NTSC code i had

 

[leafgreen386]

You know, you guys talk about having another dreamland like it would be a bad thing. Bar the wind, it was probably the most neutral stage in melee. This was of course because of a combination of the stage size and its platform arrangement, so unless luigi's mansion could match dreamland's level of balance, you could not consider it "another dreamland."