Tournament Language

[Rain(ame)]

Okay...something really irked me just now...mainly because people LOVE to jump to conclusions.

Language at tournaments should be taken into consideration...at least when it comes to commentary. The average age range in Melee/Brawl is roughly 16-24. HOWEVER there are situations where there are younger people that attend tournaments. Sometimes we don't see these younger people come back, despite their skill level, because of the language that goes on.

I know you can't ALWAYS control your emotions and words slip, but when it comes to matches that get commentary...I think that things should be kept on a rather PG to PG-13 level. Think about it...everyone wants Smash to be put back into MLG or even Evo. With the commentary laden with profanity, it shows unprofessionalism. Everyone wants Smash to become bigger, etc. Yes, commentary can be funny, and amazing sometimes, but is it really necessary for excessive profanity? Especially if we want sponsors?

Which brings me to my point:
I tried to make a more...outsider friendly...or even child friendly version of a video, and I got flamed hard for it. There is no reason to flame someone that tried to make a version he could show to his younger friends or even their parents to show what one is doing. There is a lot of potential players out there...most of them are young. They need parents to give them rides...or give them permission to go to these tournaments. If you show them videos, or their children are watching videos, and there is a bunch of needless profanity, you think they're gonna let their children go? I got a friend that's 14 or 15....he'd go to a tournament...but if I got him to watch a video like that...and his mother saw it....that'd be on me...it'd make me look bad, and there'd be another potential player unable to go.


Don't flame people for making remakes of vids that have music over commentary that might be a bit too graphic for some younger smashers or even their parents. Accept the fact that not everyone in the world uses profanity with their sentences. Also, accept the fact that some parents will only accept profanity up to a certain point. It's nice every once in a while to spice things up with music, and to have an alternative to the same old noise that goes on in the game. Just because YOU might feel the commentary with the excessive profanity NEEDS to be there...doesn't mean you should go after someone who might put music over it. I've seen it before, and if you don't like it, then go watch the other version. They aren't taking away from the match, and they aren't trying to gain attention by it. They're just offering an alternate. Also...sometimes they just feel that music might go really well with a match that is really epic.

 

[pockyD]

If you show them videos, or their children are watching videos, and there is a bunch of needless profanity, you think they're gonna let their children go? I got a friend that's 14 or 15....he'd go to a tournament...but if I got him to watch a video like that...and his mother saw it....that'd be on me...it'd make me look bad, and there'd be another potential player unable to go.

if the parent doesn't approve of profanity, that's their own business

the fact of the matter is, the language used at tournaments IS the same as the language on the videos; if they don't approve of the videos, then they definitely should NOT be allowing their children to go to the tournament... you are basically asking the community to lie to parents

sometimes swearing does get excessive, but overall, give me the realistic speak over watered down lollipop talk any day

 

[Rain(ame)]

I'm not saying to lie in general, but I've also noticed that when things get recorded...the language escalates for no reason at all. It's like, "Yo, there's a camera, let's get as crazy as we can." I've noticed that when there aren't as many matches being recorded or whatever, the profanity level is MUCH lower. It's like once there's commentary or a cam corder....everyone wants to make some kind of statement about themselves.


I mean...it's not just for the commentary...it is in general. Which is why I kind of went into the major schtick about language before I got to my point. I think it could be toned down in general. You can get hyped without saying "eff this" or "eff that" every 5 seconds. I did say a PG to PG-13 level. It's not hard to do...as I'm sure most people are concious of that around their own mothers.


I do get what you're saying, though, Pocky.

 

[RyanPF]

I agree, I wish that swearing weren't so prevalent. There's a lot of **** going on at tournaments... both Smash **** and ear ****.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Lol, I'm glad you posted, too, xD. I forgot something. The other point is that...some people just don't want to hear it...especially if they're just watching the match. The crew battles....that was just funny...and it wasn't nearly as bad as some of the matches in regular tournament. I mean....that last match of Shiz vs. M2K at ROM, was retardedly laden with profantiy in such a short period of time. O.o Some of it didn't even make any sense. At any rate...yeah, I said it'll probably happen. Some people might get upset and spew out one in emotial rage. I just think it should have a cap on it. A cap would be nice...just making sure that we don't offend parents who DO come with excessive profanity.

I'm not saying "Dont' curse at all guys". I mean...honestly...even though there are those that would LOVE that, one can't realistically ask that. A realistic request would be to lighten up on it.

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

I'm one of the "younger" smashers (15) and I still cuss my *** off at tourneys. Not cause I want to be bad, but just cause **** is one of my casual words I use in every day discussions. I have a 500 word vocab lol and when there's something I don't know how to describe I say ****. Its a normal word I don't use JUST to be loud. Although I will admit I like trash talking, but I'm just bad at it LOLZ

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

For every "curse word" you don't say, I'm going to say eight.

 

[.Marik]

For every "curse word" you don't say, I'm going to say eight.

Wow.

You just completely annihilated this thread, lololol.

When I saw the thread title, I was expecting something to do with Smash technical language, such as "DI", "ChainGrab", "OoS", and the like.

You can't stop people swearing. Tournaments are competitive. Tempers fly. People get angry and frustrated.

You'll only make the situation worse by nagging the person to stop swearing.

 

[da K.I.D.]

and once again, people fail to see the point of the OP...

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

and once again, people fail to see the point of the OP...

I didn't miss the point, I just think it's pointless.
I've been to tournaments where kids brought a parent along to show them how it was safe or was a good community or whatever. And the players generally took notice of this and avoided using words that, for whatever reason, cause distress to parents. However, the instant the parent vacated the premises, **** started to fly again.

More often than not, smashers will help you out in convincing your parents that you're attending a wholesome event, but if YOU PERSONALLY have a problem with swearing you either need to get over it, buy some good headphones, or find a different community.

 

[Metà]

I agree with most of the things that have been said in this topic, but another thing that's bugged me for a while is the constant usage of the word '****'. Yeah, I say it a lot too, but when I'm in public and my friends are talking about Smash, and they say **** at least once every sentence, I kind of want to pretend I don't know them. We all understand what the word has come to mean in the smash community (and in gaming in general), but I think that using the word habitually rather than sparingly can only lead to some horrible misunderstandings with those unfamiliar with the community.

This is tangentially related to what you were saying Ame, but I just wanted to point out this issue as well, since I've only seen like, one or two other people ever bring it up. Not that it's wrong to joke about **** or anything, but again it ties in with what Ame said about incessant profanity.

It's kind of like calling someone 'gay' or a ****** jokingly because of their playstyle. It's common usage, and people don't really mean what they say, but others who don't use it in that context might not approve. This is important to keep in mind when trying to bring in younger audiences, because in the end, they're the future of the community.

Also, I love your sig Ame, lol

 

[.Marik]

Never mind post.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I didn't miss the point, I just think it's pointless.

but if you dont think that it has a point when it obviously does, than that means you missed it...

 

[pockyD]

... what?

 

[RyanPF]

find a different community.

So you have to swear to play Smash? >.> I though the Smash community was about playing Super Smash Bros, not spouting obscenities every 4.5 seconds...

 

[pockyD]

you don't have to swear, but if you have a hard time dealing with other people doing it, you're better off finding something else to do than trying to change everybody's vernacular

 

[Frames]

yea seriously the game is rated T for teen so deal with it if you dont like the swearing dont watch the videos nobody is forcing you to watch videos or go to tournaments its all choice

 

[Rain(ame)]

Lol, I didn't say stop swearing all together. I already said that it's unreasonable for anyone to ask someone to do that. I asked to LESSEN the usage. I don't think that's hard. I try to lessen the usage of the word "****" when I play. I got into the habit of it because of how I started out in competitive smash. Then it occurred to me at a friend's house...who was younger than myself...I can't use that word so sparingly. Nor can I just be like, "That's Gay" because people don't get the reason we use it.

It's not hard to ease up. Stopping...I don't ask, because that'd be anal of me. (I'm sure that I'd offend someone in general if I asked them to stop all together.)

@Meta, thanks, xD. I like your avatar ^_^

 

[Frames]

get raaaaped and stop being gay mutha****a lmao there i addressed all your concerns in one statement

 

[Rain(ame)]

LOL, funny, xD.

It's really a suggestion. I gave many reasons for it, though. I mean...if we want Smash to get back to "Pro gaming" status, our commentary and stuff has got to be BUTTLOADS cleaner than what it is. That is one reason amongst MANY other. *shrugs* I mean...I'm not really getting bent out of shape abotu some of the replies because people are going to have their opinions on the fact.

I realize I can't force it on anyone...but maybe I can put a buzz in people's ears?

 

[Anth0ny]

It's not that bad at my tournaments. I mean, everyone swears, but it's never really been an issue to anyone.

But it's definitely not neccesary in commentary. I mean, even the wombo combo had only a couple "what the ****s".

 

[Ninjaneos]

um....it's just a game.....

besides melee/brawl are rated T for teens, not for little children and im sure teens don't mind that much of gaming language

 

[rehab]

It's a Ninty mascot fighter/party game, whose violence is barely more objectionable than Tom and Jerry. The ESRB ratings are ********.

that aside, /cosign to the "wait until some level of mental maturity before entering the comp scene" idea.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The generic swear words that don't actually mean anything are nowhere near as bad as the rampant homophobia in the community. I don't think I've gone 15 minutes among smashers without hearing the word "gay" used in a negative way; it's pretty extreme, what I'd expect out of a certain n-word I'm sure smashboards censors wouldn't approve of in the South circa 1820. Of course, there's really nothing ethical you can do about free speech, no matter how dumb or needlessly offensive it is...

In general, I always try to refrain from using words that would offend the sweetest, most innocent grandmother out there, but some people can't live without profanity. It's definitely good advice to not use it, but it would be even worse to try to force censorship so if people aren't willing to grow up, there's not much to be done.

 

[RyanPF]

um....it's just a game.....

besides melee/brawl are rated T for teens, not for little children and im sure teens don't mind that much of gaming language

*sigh*

Why do competitive gaming and competitive swearing (who can swear the most/loudest) have to be linked together? It's a cruel world we live in.

EDIT: My post count is a power of 2. <3

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

****, gay and **** are my most used words, ANYTIME. Like I was playing smash with one of my brothers (who isn't part of the community) and he got angry cause I said **** so much lol...but he has friends who have been ***** soooo.....iono

Gamepad actually enforces language control though, like I yelled "GOOD ****!" in a tourney match and one of the guys who worked there (I think it was MattyP, i didn't look, I just heard the voice) told me to watch my language. But Gamepad is LAN Center, in a mall....so yeah...

 

[raincatchfire]

yeah i agree, cut the profanity down please... the commentary lately has been so awful.

 

[Vyse]

I tell people to tone down the constant flaming of each other in regional disc threads so as to not deter people from the scene. (Unless it's smack talk, which is A-ok by me).

That's about it.

 

[:mad:]

It's only natural to be upset when you lose, I mean, you are playing for money. There's other means of relieving your stress, but this just seems like the most effective.

But I never did understand commentators screaming when something happens... we'll just have to adapt to the new language.

 

[bobson]

The generic swear words that don't actually mean anything are nowhere near as bad as the rampant homophobia in the community. I don't think I've gone 15 minutes among smashers without hearing the word "gay" used in a negative way; it's pretty extreme, what I'd expect out of a certain n-word I'm sure smashboards censors wouldn't approve of in the South circa 1820.

Homophobia: Those gays are trying to corrupt our boys and stop this nation from progressing! Ban gay marriage!

Not Homophobia: Dude, you play like a ******. Get off the ledge.

The word has multiple meanings. If I say something sucks, I likely do not mean that it literally draws in through a vacuum; similarly, if someone says you camp like a ******, he likely does not mean to decry you for being homosexual. It's an accepted and understood definition. In fact, none of the people I've ever seen who had a problem with it actually were gay or offended by it, but were trying to stop other people from being offended.



I only have a problem with it when the commentators respond to literally everything with "OOOHHH ****" and variants.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Lol, some people aren't even reading posts...or at least aren't even thinking with a mind to compromise. Again, not asking to stop all together, just to ease up some. Even Wrestling's commentary has a cap on words that they do and do not use.

Also...maturity is having the will to NOT use profanity as much. Even if the game is rated T for Teen, it's because the game is nothing but fighting. No matter how you slice it...it's a fighting game. So it gets a T rating for the amount of violence...no matter how comical it is. There are teens who do mind profanities, there are also adults who mind it as well. I've seen people put a cap on their own language before...it's not hard.

Also...again, it's gonna happen, and that's already understood. Don't think we don't know people slip when thet get emotional. Wombo Combo wasn't too bad...at least the part during the actual match, xD. Prety much to where Pakman's vids are. Can't force the issue, though, xD.

 

[abit_rusty]

Swearing is therapeutic.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I only have a problem with it when the commentators respond to literally everything with "OOOHHH ****" and variants.

If the commentary is unoriginal and boring to that extent, the match isnt even fun to watch.

I once heard that swearing is the product of an ignorant mind trying to express itself

 

[fkacyan]

If the commentary is unoriginal and boring to that extent, the match isnt even fun to watch.

I once heard that swearing is the product of an ignorant mind trying to express itself

I once heard that only ignorant people spout quotes to make themselves look better. Ohwai-

Sweeping generalizations are bad. For many people growing up now the words don't have nearly the same connotation that they do to adults. We've been desensitized, if you will.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ive been in the army, I play GTA and i watch horror movies all the time.

im desensitised.

does that make it ok for me to brutally ****, torture and kill another person? no.

I also refrained from quoting others and used my own wording just for you.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Wow....

I actually agree like 100% with the OP.

the fact of the matter is, the language used at tournaments IS the same as the language on the videos; if they don't approve of the videos, then they definitely should NOT be allowing their children to go to the tournament... you are basically asking the community to lie to parents

Everyone knows people cuss. The difference is a video is an OUTWARD projection of the community to a judging public. When I was getting permission from my parents to go out of state for the first time a while back (2005) for a tournament I showed them Bach's video montages. It helped. Videos CAN spread the community and attract new players.

Finally, if I was fighting in a finals, I wouldn't want my videos tarnished by two people who never learned self control and think that everything that is funny is also likewise good.

Commentary, especially of high profile matches, should really be more professional. Melee is unfortunately gonna have to live with what happened.

Think of it as having two options. You can have a video with 10,000 views in which 1,000 people get a poor image of the community, or you could have a video with 10,000 views and not turn anyone off toward the community. Essentially, why would you spout in a video anything that could potentially turn people away from Smash. I would definitely say cussing turns more people away and is more divisive than not cussing in videos.

 

[fkacyan]

ive been in the army, I play GTA and i watch horror movies all the time.

im desensitised.

does that make it ok for me to brutally ****, torture and kill another person? no.

I also refrained from quoting others and used my own wording just for you.

That is such a terrible analogy. Why the hell you would ever think to compare word connotations and brutal murder is beyond me.

 

[Rain(ame)]

No trust me...they do have the same meaning, because people don't WANT their kids using the language. The fact is...they ALLOW their kids to do it. My ex-boss knows not to drop the F-bomb around his mother because last time he did, she chased him around with a broom. (He's not that much older than me, btw) Kids need to know the value of the weight behind those words. If adults...that includes us.... (some of us are mature enough if they aren't LEGALLY adults) dont' teach them that, then we just created a generation where things have gotten worse.

When you work in a store...you don't curse around the customers do you? No. Why is that? Because it could be offensive. If you're at a resturant, and you KNOW a child is sitting there....are you gonna continue to curse? No...and if you did, you'd probably hear something about it from their parents.

Being Desensitized means jack squat, because people have the right to CHOOSE whether to be offended. I was around profanity all my life because there were kids who used to do it behind their parents back. Either that or I was around a lot of unedited music. I still find profanity to be offensive even though I've been exposed to a CRAP load of it. I don't gasp in horror like I did when I was younger and be like "ooooooh, you said a bad word!!" Why is that? I've been Desensitized to profanity. HOWEVER, I still find it offensive, and I know that I can pick and choose my battles.

Take not of this please:
People are only desensitized in their reaction to things. How they FEEL about it is purely up to them. If they at some point changed their thinking, then that's on them, not the media.

I don't curse around my associates and those around me. People notice that...some ask while others just ease up on the language. I also tend to find people using my alternative, which in general sounds stupid, but they use it. "What the Phat!?(Fat...either way) I wound up picking this up from a friend of mine and it kind of just stuck with me. It also ended up sticking with a lot of other people, too, xD. Other times I just go "WOOOOOOOOOOW" I've noticed that that tends to be a regular reaction as opposed to cursing. People do it...out of respect for those they tend to be around...even if they don't even realize it themselves.

A lot of times...you don't need to correct someone, "Watch you mouth" unless there's a reason. An old lady or a child is around, etc. Other than that...you can't really speak up and push the issue. It, in general it can also look bad for the TO. They are supposed to be in charge of the situation. If...by chance it happens to be held in a store or some public place, and the language gets out of hand...that tarnishes the TO. That also tarnishes the person in charge of the store. What if you actually had a good Venue? Could the reason you can't come back be the language? Sometimes the store owner won't even say it...to the TO. Perhaps even the TO doesn't want to say it to tournament goers as well?

 

[xXRoYXx]

I agree with Rain on the OP, however, I do understand that people will get offeneded by asking them to stop (OR EVEN ASKING THEM TO LIGHTEN IT UP) swearing today is like a posession. Try to take it or ask them to put it away would make certain people bitter and angry.

Best solution I believe is to have it written on tournaments and enforce it to a certain degree

 

[Espy Rose]

I agree fully with the OP.

I get tired of hearing the same words been spoken over and over in commentary.
At most, I only let out a "****" when frustrated.

And no, that's NOT the f-word.