Tournament Ethics: Unmerited Win?

[#HBC | Mac]

Picture this scenario:
You are in grand finals of pound11. It has come down to the last match, last stock you are both at high percent. You get hit by an upsmash by you opponents fox. andddddddddd.... you start to die off the top. An eruption of clapping and yelling emits from the almost silent crowd behind you. You bury your face in your hands and your opponent jumps up and pumps his fist in the air. While doing that however, he accidentally drops his controller due to his excitement. And while your character is still going into a star in the distance his controller hits the ground awkwardly and cause his fox to illusion off the stage and drop to it's death before your death animation finishes. The match ends, and the game declares you the winner. Your opponent glances at you with the most depressed look on his face.

What do you do? Do you take the win that you did not deserve or do you give it to your opponent. Do you do something completely different like replaying the game or what?

Does the context matter in this situation? Would it be different if you were playing a good friend? A rival? What if you were playing in the first round of winners as opposed to grand finals? Or if it was simply a money match?

Gimme your thoughts.

 

[nevershootme]

similar case http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMHc32ygldk

at 2:13

 

[adumbrodeus]

It ain't over till it's over.

You suicide last minute, your fault, that's why I never go for those "my opponent is already dead, but I feel like being flashy" spikes.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Personally, I would like to think that I would still give him the win, but when you're in a situation like that, your mind is in a different place. Sitting here now, I'll say that I'll give him the win. But when you're that close in such an important match, who knows.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Personally, I would like to think that I would still give him the win, but when you're in a situation like that, your mind is in a different place. Sitting here now, I'll say that I'll give him the win. But when you're that close in such an important match, who knows.

Why? Except for the cases specifically in our ruleset, it's the guy the game displays as the winner is the winner. If I did that, I wouldn't accept the win without him officially forfeiting.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Why? Except for the cases specifically in our ruleset, it's the guy the game displays as the winner is the winner. If I did that, I wouldn't accept the win without him officially forfeiting.

Because I didn't earn the victory, nor do I believe I deserve it. I know by official rules I have won, but I wouldn't feel right taking that win.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Because I didn't earn the victory, nor do I believe I deserve it. I know by official rules I have won, but I wouldn't feel right taking that win.

Philosophically, the winner is who the game recognizes as the winner, unless tournament rules dictate otherwise, as such I wouldn't feel right about you giving me the win in that circumstance. If I side-b'ed off the edge at the last instant, I made a stupid mistake like any other and deserve to be punished.

 

[Rockin]

Simple, I would've let my opponent have the win.

I didn't deserve the win at all. I lost, plain and simple. Sure, my opponent decided to be a bit careless at the moment, but still...good sportsman ship.

If I were to take that win, I wouldn't be recognized as a good player. Sure, the money would be nice, but it's not that deserving. I wouldn't feel right for a good while.

It's just the way I am. I like to be a good sportsman.

if there's some dispute, I would be happy to re-play that match with each of us having one stock.

 

[Pink Reaper]

my opponent would have already won cus i would have l+r+a+start the second i got hit with the Usmash lol.

this is similar to the rage quit thread in MD, if you lost, you lost, accept it and move on. The match ended the second you got hit.

 

[john!]

Reminds me of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtTFaThqzo

Technically you won, in your case. Personally I think I'd give it to the opponent, but of course you can never know until it actually happens.

 

[GHNeko]

It all depends on how much you care about my status within the community.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

I would take the win.

You don't stop playing until someone resets or "GAME!"

 

[GHNeko]

I would take the win.

You don't stop playing until someone resets or "GAME!"

Pretty much because **** like Darkrain vs Jman can happen to you. If it happens once, it can happen again.

Don't end **** prematurely even if you're 110% sure it was legit.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i thought jman lost on purpose or something like that?

 

[Pink Reaper]

iirc, Darkrain ended up giving the win to Jman anyways, cus, you know, Jman won.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Reminds me of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtTFaThqzo

Technically you won, in your case. Personally I think I'd give it to the opponent, but of course you can never know until it actually happens.

That's different for a simple reason. Darkrain paused the game intentionally after being hit so he implicitly forfeited the match. If Jman had been the one to pause or if there were no pause, Darkrain would have had full right to claim the win there. The match ends at the word "game", not at the moment the last hit is landed.

A situation that actually comes up is very late in matches, sometimes a star KO will be happening and time will run out in the middle of it. If the guy who landed the final blow was losing when this happened, he loses even though he would have won if there were even just a second or two more on the timer. There's no shame in winning this way.

The case of suiciding during an opponent's star KO just makes you dumb. I would claim the win there just on the principle that someone so dumb as to do that deserves to lose. Note that sometimes, death after landing a killing blow is unavoidable which makes the person who lost not dumb but also means they don't deserve to win. Jigglypuff can land an off-stage Rest, get a star KO, and then die off the bottom before the star KO finishes. Jigglypuff loses there, and I don't think a reasonable person would say she shouldn't. Similarly, that usmash could have been from Lucas who has a super slow one and could have committed him to standing in a really bad place during Castle Siege's transition which dooms him to die; he obviously deserves to lose. Sometimes both people die off the top, and the second guy to go off the top gets a screen slam instead of a star KO and dies first anyway. That really sucks because it's random, but what should happen is clear.

So yeah, stuff happens, and there's never any reason you have to give up your wins just because it did.

 

[MT_]

What if it was a stage hazard that caused you to die at the end before your opponent's star KO finished? Like Arwings on Corneria, cars in Mute City, or bombs in Green Greens.

 

[Jonas]

If I one this way, I would accept the victory, just like I would accept the defeat if it happened to me. It would be my own fault after all, seeing as I let go of the controller before the match ended.

Reminds me of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtTFaThqzo

Technically you won, in your case. Personally I think I'd give it to the opponent, but of course you can never know until it actually happens.

Darkrain lost, since he was the one who paused. Notice it ways P4. If it was just Jman pausing, unpausing and dying, I would say Jman had lost.

 

[fLoAtiN]

i think the game ends the moment the guy hits the final blow which will send you over the top because you're allowed to reset the game during that time.

 

[GHNeko]

What if it was a stage hazard that caused you to die at the end before your opponent's star KO finished? Like Arwings on Corneria, cars in Mute City, or bombs in Green Greens.

Best keep your shield up just in case. :V

 

[Solid Jake]

Personally as a TO I would leave the decision to the player who is shown as the winner on the screen. If they choose to not decide themselves, I would declare them the winner.

 

[Mota]

Whoever the game declares is the winner is the winner. Just make sure not to celebrate to early or do some stupid stuff that could get you killed before the animation ends.

 

[john!]

I know that the situations are different, which is why I said "in your case". Darkrain lost because he paused and pausing is illegal. It just reminded me of that because the winner's screen didn't display the actual winner. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Whoever the game declares is the winner is the winner. Just make sure not to celebrate to early or do some stupid stuff that could get you killed before the animation ends.

Unless tournament rules say otherwise.


Otherwise yes.

 

[Mahone]

I would accept the win and then burn the money in front of him lololol

 

[tsilver33]

As another member said, my mindset would probably be different in that situation. But sitting here with a clear head, depending on how much of a jerk the guy was being, if at all, I'd either take it all or offer to split.

 

[P.C. Jona]

Reminds me of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtTFaThqzo

Technically you won, in your case. Personally I think I'd give it to the opponent, but of course you can never know until it actually happens.

wow i cant believe people are still bringing this up. ok so..

darkrain paused after jman upaired him.

if he wouldnt have paused it, jman would have just double jumped back on the stage, because the up air was slightly off the stage.

thats why when darkrain unpaused jman just fell down.

i dont think it matters that darkrain paused it, the thing is that he un paused it when jman wasnt looking, or else jman would have atleast up-b'd which would have given him enough time for darkrain to die.

 

[CT Chia]

Reminds me of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtTFaThqzo

Technically you won, in your case. Personally I think I'd give it to the opponent, but of course you can never know until it actually happens.

Darkrain was the one who paused

Then Jman unplugged his controller and plugged it into Darkrain's slot so he could unpause it, but doing that meant his controller was unplugged and couldn't recover. 100% Dark's fault.

Either way, in the OP situation, it's his fault for illusioning like that. He loses.

 

[john!]

Jona is almost right. Chibo is right. I know what happened guys, I watched the match personally at the tourney itself, and made the very first comment on the video explaining the entire situation. Geez, I didn't want the entire topic to be about that post... Anyway back to the topic, now that that's cleared up.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Here's a better question, what would you do if you were on the other end of this hypothetical?

 

[GHNeko]

Kick myself for doing something that cost me the match/set/finals

 

[Rappster]

what if you just landed a rest on say, corneria, and an arwing hits you?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I like that example even better.

 

[Solid Jake]

what if you just landed a rest on say, corneria, and an arwing hits you?

It's a legal stage, and a legal situation. You lost the match.

 

[adumbrodeus]

what if you just landed a rest on say, corneria, and an arwing hits you?

Don't rest when airwings are around...


You die before your opponent, you lose.

 

[Dark Hart]

In today's scene people quit out of matches when they end, so your scenario would never happen.

 

[Roneblaster]

Personally, I would like to think that I would still give him the win, but when you're in a situation like that, your mind is in a different place. Sitting here now, I'll say that I'll give him the win. But when you're that close in such an important match, who knows.

this

Darkrain was the one who paused

Then Jman unplugged his controller and plugged it into Darkrain's slot so he could unpause it, but doing that meant his controller was unplugged and couldn't recover. 100% Dark's fault.

and this.

 

[Diakonos]

what if you just landed a rest on say, corneria, and an arwing hits you?

I would cry of laughter.

Or what if you land a rest and you land on the arwing and it carries you off to die?

Best match ending ever.

 

[1048576]

I had a match where I hit rest offstage and I only won because my opponent died off the front, which takes less time than star KO.

I stayed on the TV. If its part of the game and not explicitly against the rules, you should abuse the hell out of it. That's the only way to come up with a fair ruleset down the road.

 

[fLoAtiN]

what if while you just usmashed your opponent, and they are in the process of dying into a star, and you illusion off stage, but then you reset the match before you or the person dying dies?