Touhou Hisoutensoku Thread

[Dango]

I disagree. One, blockstrings and resets do exist, especially in melee. Two, DPs do exist, especially in Brawl. Three, juggling is kinda extremely important in smash.

Arc inputs have nothing to do with a game being a fighting game.

Shield break and guard crush are the same end.

The strategies are actually much closer than you are giving it credit. You bait the opponent into doing something punishable and you punish it to the maximum extent.

I categorize it as a fighting game and things I learn from Smash transfer over to BB, MvC, SF, and Soku and vice versa.

I also happen to enjoy the topic.

Mmmm, just a forewarning, dont take this personally its a debate xD (Cuz i've had this turn into flame wars many times).

1) Blocking exists, but blockstrings do not. What categorizes a blockstring is that it keeps the opponent in the defensive position for while, setting up available "force damage" options such as airunblockables/Guardcrush/crossups. What you see in smash is really nothing more than a neutral game block, not an offensive blockstring that brings the opponent to a severe disadvantage in terms of priority.

2) DPs in brawl? Enlighten me please. I'm not aware of any DPs in brawl that specifically, via frame data, has invul frames on startup.

3) Herp derp, forgot about marth juggles in melee. My bad on that.

4) I don't get how guard crushing is similar to fighters than smash. In full fledged fighters, a guardcrush is committed by either forcing a low meter wrongblock, or in some games, wrongblocking = full damage and guardcrush regardless of meter. In smash, it's just something that reduces its durability, and is one of those that is just meant to block a hit or two, then roll out. Also, in high level fighter game play, forcing damage mostly occurs from guardcrushes. In smash, it's more of just pokes everywhere and no GC to force damage. Then again, considering that smash doesnt have wrongblock, i dont think it's really considered similar.



Bleh, i dunno. You played a lot of the slower paced fighter games and not enough faster paced ones IMO. You should try out Melty Blood Actress Cadenza and you'll understand why i began disregarding smash as a fighter.

No, im not denying that it doesnt have source of mindgames/is competitive/pretty involved, but when you compare it to a fighter game in and of itself, it's kinda on the opposite side of what you would consider a "fighter game." Rather, it'd just be a fighting action platform game, than a fighter game.

It's really surprising how much of the soku community plays smash. Or played as the case seems to be. ZomB being a prime example.

DerpDerp, I started with MBAC first fyi.



On a side note,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUWWdMA3c-I
Shameless Self Promotion

 

[Ussi]

DPs: Marth's dolphin slash are Mario's Up B are the big ones. There are more moves with invincibility but they aren't uppercuts so to speak.. (bowser's Up B, Ivysaur's bullet seed, and some more)

 

[Dango]

DPs: Marth's dolphin slash are Mario's Up B are the big ones. There are more moves with invincibility but they aren't uppercuts so to speak.. (bowser's Up B, Ivysaur's bullet seed, and some more)

Oh, don't refer to DPs as the LOLSHORYUKENUPPERCUT types. Anything with invul on startup is considered a DP.

Ah, i see. Those few have invul on startup. Makes sense. Disregard that part then

 

[Crusayer]

I don't understand why you think "blockstrings" are setup for only for wrongblock, cross ups and etc. Blockstrings are what it literally means: A string of attacks on your opponent's shield.

If you want to get technical, I can force my opponent to shield INCORRECTLY in melee due to shield deterioration and then land a low hit. There are frame traps and staggers as well.

From what I understand, Ryker means guard crush in the sense you run out of orbs in soku, run out of guard meter in melty, or run out of primers in BB.

Also: MBAC sucks compared to MBAA (CC) :D.

 

[Dango]

Also: MBAC sucks compared to MBAA (CC) :D.

Pssh, Screw MBAACC ;____; They took out my beloved Satsuki 4-way. They take out my main source of combos in MBAC, im not moving to MBAA. ;______;

Yes, akiha got buffed too, but idc LOL


Anyways, anyone up for a game later?

 

[Ussi]

Oh, don't refer to DPs as the LOLSHORYUKENUPPERCUT types. Anything with invul on startup is considered a DP.

Ah, i see. Those few have invul on startup. Makes sense. Disregard that part then

Well >_>; I started as a competitive smash player, don't even know other fighters..

That also makes Jigg's rest a DP looooooooooool


Also i might want to play, just to see if I can set up a port right >_>;; tried to set one up on my router but the guy i wanted to play went offline -_-.. and also see what I need to learn to get better at the game.

 

[Crusayer]

wut.

Satsuki still has a 4 way. She's still top tier in CC Lol.

 

[Dango]

wut.

Satsuki still has a 4 way. She's still top tier in CC Lol.

She has a 4way, but its not the same 4-way in AC ;____;
I dont get her 4way anymore because literally, 99% of my gimmicks came from 4-way hitconfirms. Now, the change in 4-way really deterred my reaction to a lot of the stuff. Like, i'd hit a 2C, and like in MBAC, i'd do 214B 2[A] 2, but when i do that, it just whiffs and whatnot. So yeah :/

 

[asianaussie]

im mad that people think calling luigi's up-b a shoryuken is acceptable

i intended to try and get better at this but i realised ill have to get used to 5+ frame delay again...so now im sad

 

[Ussi]

i never understood why it was called shoryuken :s

 

[Lythium]

What the heck happened to this thread? :I

 

[Ussi]

So i got my port forward to work.. so i can host Soku matches, but I'm terrible so the only point in playing me is to teach me how to get better :s

for now i'm gonna be in practice mode trying to perfect bnb combos + being able to rekka + that DP Youmu has for now :s

also, typhoon is dumb

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Mmmm, just a forewarning, dont take this personally its a debate xD (Cuz i've had this turn into flame wars many times).

But of course. I'm not trying to start fights, I just enjoy talking.

1) Blocking exists, but blockstrings do not. What categorizes a blockstring is that it keeps the opponent in the defensive position for while, setting up available "force damage" options such as airunblockables/Guardcrush/crossups. What you see in smash is really nothing more than a neutral game block, not an offensive blockstring that brings the opponent to a severe disadvantage in terms of priority.

Try a Dair/Nair/Bair ->Shine->Wavedash->Grab with a spacie on shield in melee. ****'s ****ing hilarious. Plug in 64 and try any number of 100% shield stun blockstrings that lead to shield break.

2) DPs in brawl? Enlighten me please. I'm not aware of any DPs in brawl that specifically, via frame data, has invul frames on startup.

There's a bunch. The best one is probably Marth's Dolphin Slash, but Mario's uppercut, Rest, and (I believe it has frame one invincibility) MK's shuttle loop. Watch good Marth players. The UpB gets used almost exactly like a traditional Dragon Punch.

3) Herp derp, forgot about marth juggles in melee. My bad on that.

Not just Melee Marth. Juggling is a big part of racking up damage in Smash in general. Smash 64 is all about those juggle combos until you can tag a kill move. Melee characters juggle like it's nothing because the lack of a Brawl physics air dodge makes landing SUPER unsafe. In Brawl, try playing against a good MK or G&W. They're probably the best jugglers in the game and they will keep your *** in the air.

4) I don't get how guard crushing is similar to fighters than smash. In full fledged fighters, a guardcrush is committed by either forcing a low meter wrongblock, or in some games, wrongblocking = full damage and guardcrush regardless of meter. In smash, it's just something that reduces its durability, and is one of those that is just meant to block a hit or two, then roll out. Also, in high level fighter game play, forcing damage mostly occurs from guardcrushes. In smash, it's more of just pokes everywhere and no GC to force damage. Then again, considering that smash doesnt have wrongblock, i dont think it's really considered similar.

Some characters have viable set-ups to guard crush and the viability of guard crushing as an option is different from game to game. In Melee, it's probably the least prevalent, but Fox can still shine you until your shield pops. In 64, EVERYONE can shield break you and it's not hard as the shield stun is insane. In Brawl, shield breakers are more limited to characters. Marth can break your shield on one good read and DK aims to break your shield or force you to a point where you have to play with the fear of eating a strong attack on shield.

In Soku, most damage may occur from forcing guard crushes, but not in SF or Marvel or Blazblue or any number of other games. Soku is actually a rarity in that regard.

Smash's system is based around the fact that your guard is not perfect. The high low game comes from forcing your opponent to angle his shield so he isn't shield poked into a combo or tech chase from a high or a low.

Bleh, i dunno. You played a lot of the slower paced fighter games and not enough faster paced ones IMO. You should try out Melty Blood Actress Cadenza and you'll understand why i began disregarding smash as a fighter.

No thanks, I'm playing enough that it hurts me across the board, but I've played enough of them in general to understand. Smash's speed comes from the amount of variables you have to watch at once.

No, im not denying that it doesnt have source of mindgames/is competitive/pretty involved, but when you compare it to a fighter game in and of itself, it's kinda on the opposite side of what you would consider a "fighter game." Rather, it'd just be a fighting action platform game, than a fighter game.

Good to know. I feel it's a fighter by definition. I mean, define fighter real quick and see if your definition both makes sense and excludes smash. Keep in mind that Smash is not the first game to center around time and ring-out.

 

[asianaussie]

64 doesn't have as many shieldbreaks as everyone seems to think it does (and not as many zero-deaths either)

in fact there are maybe 4 or 5 shieldbreaks all up (im being generous here) that can be done through reaction in an actual match, not including on people who seem to think shielding is a good move in 64 and stand there weakening their shield for you

while every character has a few of them, many are precise to 1 or 2 frames and require you to specifically angle attacks, and some are just downright unviable

and smash is a fighter, just not a traditional fighter...fighting games should not be segregated due to traditional components like DPs being involved, games with those components fall under the label of traditional fighter and don't get to take away the label of 'fighter' from games like smash and many doujin fighters

 

[Blue Rogue]

Juggles and shield "pressure" are a big part of my Wario game, just sayin

Needs more people getting on lobby to actually play than lurk. I haven't had a good match in sooo long..

 

[Ussi]

Anyone want to play a game? Or what is this lobby you can go to? I'll add that I direct host as well.

I played my friend for the 2nd time, this time i managed to actually win around 35% of the games.. I have only 1 combo I do :\ but its all I need for now as a ground combo.. I need to work on my air combos..

I'm also a bit weak on my pressure game, but its somewhat existent though.

 

[Crusayer]

Lobby is the IRC channel.

#Hisouten @ rizon or something.

You can find the link at the soku wiki.

 

[Dango]

If anyone's there in US right now
EDIT: Deleted IP.
Probably gonna be hosting for a while.

 

[asianaussie]

playing this game lots more recently

in love with patchy's j6a and her bubbles

picked up yuyuko, playing campy characters in pseudo-rushdown style is my thing, apparently

 

[John2k4]

Okay, I can not find a download link for the full game anywhere...all I see are patches and whatnot.
Yes I translated the page to English Engrish, didn't get anything from that.

 

[Crusayer]

Doujinstyle.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hey John, message me on Skype and I'll get you squared away.

I'd be playing, but my laptop is busted.

cpt_ryker

 

[John2k4]

Hey John, message me on Skype and I'll get you squared away.

I'd be playing, but my laptop is busted.

cpt_ryker

Added you.

I played it on a friends computer, and have no clue how the controls are...at least I passed the level.

I think I played Touhou 8 Night-something...

 

[asianaussie]

Imperishable Night...?

That's one of the main series bullet hell games, Hisoutensoku isn't much like it.

 

[John2k4]

Imperishable Night...?

Yes that's it.

That's one of the main series bullet hell games,

This describes the experience perfectly.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Message me sometime, lol.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Dango's so cruel. He seemed to be toying with me before just completely obliterating me with random characters. :<

 

[asianaussie]

haha i know the feeling

i pick my 'main' (usually patch, yuyu or sanae) and go all out, but i get 2-0'd by basically every character some of my regular opponents pick

 

[Sky Pirate]

WELP. I'm pretty much 3-200 since using the Lobby.
I've learned that being an Aya with bad habits is like swinging a stick at a tank to get it to stop. You will fail and you will get steamrolled EVERY TIME. :<

But that's fine! China may have been tempting me to the dark side, but this burning passion ensures that I will forever remain an Aya main!
No matter how badly I lose, no matter how hard my life may be, that one fact will remain true!
Hailed by the heavens, earth and people, the one and only BANG SHISHIGAMI IS NOW HERE! GUOOOOOOH!
...sorry, my head hurts. ^^;

 

[Ussi]

I have to make time to visit this lobby.. and get my butt kicked. See what I have to aspire too.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I'm unsure if I still play but we can hang out sometime or talk on skype or something. Ryker doesn't have his computer so he's out. Moth probably still up for stuff.

 

[John2k4]

I beat the easy campaign on Touhou 8 Imperishable Night...
Was quite fun, actually.

 

[asianaussie]

This is Touhou 12.3. Unrelated to the integer series titles, because there is no bullet hell (except in single player sorta, but single player is silly).

 

[Ussi]

Patch gives me bullet hell ._.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll be able to play later today. So ready to have internet again.

 

[Sky Pirate]

I've been on the Lobby and IRC as "SkyPirateCoud", BTW.
Getting leveled by everything I come across.

EDIT: Wait... I think I took one game off of one guy at one point, but I played for 8 hours today and my brain might be melting so IDK.

EDIT 2: But apparently my BEs are good for someone of my level. ^^;

 

[xZ1!C3x]

I love this game, I use suika (aka the mk of the game.)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I love this game, I use suika (aka the mk of the game.)

Please tell me that's sarcasm or you're referring to a different Touhou fighter or something.

 

[Sky Pirate]

She's little like Metaknight.

...most of the time.

 

[xZ1!C3x]

Please tell me that's sarcasm or you're referring to a different Touhou fighter or something.

Lol no im a legit suika main. I could use sakuya if u dont want to face the godlike power of a drunken oni.