Toon Link Q&A and FAQ Thread <- VISIT THIS THREAD BEFORE CREATING A NEW TOPIC

[Sosuke]

The best time to use Zair is while falling. That way, it doesn't have lag.

The move is mostly used for spacing, so not hitting them is fine.

 

[TheJerm]

try mastering tl without zair, then you'll see when you should use it.

 

[UncleSam]

Does anyone have frame data on Toon Link throwing bombs/projectiles in general? I looked in the frame data thread, and saw nothing of it. Wouldn't mind knowing that kind of information, as well as a jump-canceled throw(if there is any difference).

EDIT: I found frame data on Peach throwing turnips, but I'm gonna guess their animations differ from each character.

SauceKay isn't done with it yet.

Does anyone know why sometimes the hookshot doesnt grab the ledge even though you're clearly close enough for it to grab on?

It usually happens when youre fast falling, air dodge and press A and the hookshot comes out into the ledge yet it doesnt grab on. It looks a lot like the animation of the hookshot after you grabbed the ledge 3 times.


This has happened to me twice in tournament and it cost me two sets so I figured I should learn exactly why it does that.

Yeah I've had that happen to me too.
either you're too far or you're just moving away from the ledge too fast.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Does anyone know why sometimes the hookshot doesnt grab the ledge even though you're clearly close enough for it to grab on?

It usually happens when youre fast falling, air dodge and press A and the hookshot comes out into the ledge yet it doesnt grab on. It looks a lot like the animation of the hookshot after you grabbed the ledge 3 times.


This has happened to me twice in tournament and it cost me two sets so I figured I should learn exactly why it does that.

Going off memory, this happens when you hold down kinda like when you hold down and Up-B to the ledge, Toon won't grab on. I know for sure that it happens when you hit down right after using Zair, but as for just holding down, I can't remember and I can't test it. Maybe someone else can confirm, but at least for now you know what to avoid.

 

[Sosuke]

I never did frame data. Other people worked on it. =/

 

[2nLio]

Yeah I've had that happen to me too.
either you're too far or you're just moving away from the ledge too fast.

Nah im talking about when you're clearly in range. Also, moving too fast away from the edge isnt a factor because a lot of the time i get hit at high %s I DI downward (kinda like a crouch cancel) and I hookshot and it saves me a stock.

Going off memory, this happens when you hold down kinda like when you hold down and Up-B to the ledge, Toon won't grab on. I know for sure that it happens when you hit down right after using Zair, but as for just holding down, I can't remember and I can't test it. Maybe someone else can confirm, but at least for now you know what to avoid.

hmm, someone else suggested that but I tried to replicate it by holding/pressing down everytime I zair the ledge and it always grabbed on :\

And btw Im not talking about when the hookshot does grab on and immediately lets go. It simply just doesnt grab and looks exactly like when youve used youre 3 hookshot grabs.

 

[sman5093]

How can I practice spiking with TL? Sometimes when I'm about to do it I panic and then I just mash the c-stick downward without thinking. Then I die Anyone got any advise for me? anything would be helpful.

 

[Sosuke]

By that do you mean how can you calm yourself while playing?

Or do you mean you are looking for safe ways to spike with TL?

 

[Kaffei]

How can I practice spiking with TL? Sometimes when I'm about to do it I panic and then I just mash the c-stick downward without thinking. Then I die Anyone got any advise for me? anything would be helpful.

This is a really situational thing to do, so just keep playing and look for the right moments..

 

[sman5093]

By that do you mean how can you calm yourself while playing?

Or do you mean you are looking for safe ways to spike with TL?

I'm looking for a safe way to spike with TL. got any advice? anything would be helpful

 

[Mota]

Personally I don't recommend off-stage spiking with Toon Link at all, unless it's like a desperate last resort.

If you check out Fox Is Openly Deceptive AT Thread and CTL+F, type in 'safe spike', there'll be a couple methods you can spike with carefullnessless. Enjoy.

 

[2nLio]

Alright, this is what I was asking about earlier. Why does the hookshot sometimes not grab and how do you prevent it. This cost me 2 tourney sets already >.<

go to 3:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPIqfbc_Twc&feature=related

 

[Sosuke]

That's never happened to me. >_>
Maybe it's just on the Japanese version of the game.

 

[2nLio]

I wish that were the case but its happened to me wayy too many times now >.>

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

That's happened to me before as well. I have a few ideas as to what might cause it, but I've never actually looked into it personally. I'd do it right now, but I can't.
"A fox without his wii, is barely a fox at all."
So if no one knows what's going on there, I'll find out when I can and tell you, even if I have to PM you.

 

[2nLio]

That's happened to me before as well. I have a few ideas as to what might cause it, but I've never actually looked into it personally. I'd do it right now, but I can't.
"A fox without his wii, is barely a fox at all."
So if no one knows what's going on there, I'll find out when I can and tell you, even if I have to PM you.

Oh man thanks a lot! I'll definitely try to do some research on this as well.

 

[Thebest1pj]

prob cuz the mk and the ledge were both in the same spot so the hookshot didnt know which to grab and died lol

 

[WindMajor]

Is it possible that it happened because he was holding back while he tried to tether?

I mean, if you hold down, the tether cancels. Could holding back be something? (I'm not next to my Wii, so I can't test it.)

 

[Kaffei]

prob cuz the mk and the ledge were both in the same spot so the hookshot didnt know which to grab and died lol

No, that's not true. The zair auto registers to grab the edge when TL is in that specific range.
TWiNK's idea sounds more plausible, could anyone test that?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I'd be testing all this myself, but seeing as people want to throw ideas out there, My first thoughts on this the first time I read it were, it has something to do with holding or hitting the joystick or, hitting Zair twice way too quickly. I know it sounds strange, but that was my first instinct. Maybe I had tested this before, if I have, then I don't remember, but make sure you check if it happens if you hit Zair twice too quickly.

As I have said, it has happened to me before, so it's likely that I've tried to figure this out before. I just can't remember. Maybe the Zair twice thing was just a failed idea still floating around up there, but I felt I needed to say it.

 

[2nLio]

If it helps, most of the time this happened, i was fast falling (although its happened a couple of times when im not fast falling as well) so I figured it has something to do with holding down but i still cant replicate it at will :\

 

[MJG]

Alright, this is what I was asking about earlier. Why does the hookshot sometimes not grab and how do you prevent it. This cost me 2 tourney sets already >.<

go to 3:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPIqfbc_Twc&feature=related

Wtf? That has never happened to me.

 

[TheJerm]

I think its because he had a bomb in hand. Or because he was too close, like in melee.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Good news everyone! I was able to do some testing today at my mate's house and with the help of Tedeth and e_alert, I found out what was causing that Tether fail thing. It's actually quite simple.

Now listen up people because this is what you shouldn't be doing. This is a warning so you can avoid this in the future (if you do it at all).

You go to Tether, and you hit Down on the joystick and Tether at the exact same time. This will also happen if you lightly tilt down on the joystick and tether at the exact same time. What happens is, the tether acts as if you have already tethered 3 times and simply refuses to grab the edge, then it takes forever to retract and by the time you can move again, you are forced to recover from down low and can easily lose a stock/the game.
Avoid this at all costs.

You have been warned XD.

 

[Mota]

Ahhh so it's only when you tether and down at the same time!

I'd always fast fall tether and the majority of times it would be fine, but on rare occasions it wouldn't. Good stuff Fox.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

At the exact same time, yep. I know for sure because I slowed it down and re-created it succesfully many many times in a row. I also tested in slowmo slightly earlier and later. But no, it's the exact same time that gives the undesireable and down right lame effect.

 

[EverAlert]

Guys. GUYS.

Trolling Foxy IRL while/after he's working stuff out is just.. the funniest ****. Ever.

XD

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

XD, you guys are *****.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Bump.

So, as it turns out, we were kind of wrong. It's not just hitting down that does it.
After a lot more testing and studying that vid, I've come to a sort of conclusion. I think that it's caused by any sudden shift in direction as your using tether. As you can see, in the vid, he was drifting right and as soon as he used tether, he drifted left. This is confirmed to be a possible way to make the tether fail.
The thing is, it's not just limited to that either. I was also able to make it fail by shifting in the opposite direction (in this case, drifting left then tethering and hitting right).

So I think that the tether is a very specific thing and everything has to be just right. It calculates how it should adjust to any movement, for example, if you are drifting away from the edge, it will have to go further then if you were drifting towards the edge even though it was used at the exact same spot. This is because the tether is not instantaneous. It takes a few frames (I'm not sure how many) to get to the the edge from the moment that you shot it. Combine this with my theory that it has to be just right (it has to hit the edge at the exact right spot) and there is a minute amount of room for error.

After I realised how to give it the best possible chance of failing, I was able to make it fail much more frequently. That's right. Even though I think I know what causes it, I can't get it to work (or not work) every time. This means that I can't say for certain that my theory is correct. It would need to be tested frame by frame to make sure.

So in the mean time, I spose all that you can do is try to continue to drift in the same direction while you tether and not move the opposite way or fast fall or in any way affect the direction Toon goes in while he is tethering and the tether fail should never happen.

 

[Sosuke]

Hmm, weird. Any idea if the failed tethers affect the whole "you can only grab the ledge 3 times" thing, Fox?

 

[Thebest1pj]

Hmm, weird. Any idea if the failed tethers affect the whole "you can only grab the ledge 3 times" thing, Fox?

naw it doesnt

 

[TLMSheikant]

Omg sasuke mains sheik? D:

 

[Sosuke]

SBSheikbeetle lolz.

Anyway, picture restoration to this( and my other threads) should be happening starting tomorrow. >_<

 

[WindMajor]

Toon Link mains Sheikant.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Toon Link mains Sheikant.

Metaknight owns Twinkat.

 

[demonictoonlink]

If S@nt and I ever teamed, we'd be DTLMSheikant. Also, we'd both go MK. <3

 

[TLMSheikant]

I'd totally do that. XD Are u going to mlg? I MIGHT go. Already got the money like always now I just gotta buy the plane ticket (very cheap 164$) without my father noticing and suddenly a week before the tourney, voila I show him the ticket. Say Im going and he cant stop me, because I already bought it. I'll probably do bad though, I got first national johns.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I MIGHT be going...depends on if I even make it out of pools at No Koast
DTLMSheikant would be way too ****.
But good luck on that ticket thing...I'd be hella scurred...

 

[WindMajor]

Just put up your Mirror Shield when you face your dad.

 

[MJG]

Ill shun you if you don't make it out of pools at NKv3. Probably the easiest thing to do.

Ill be going to Columbus for sure.