QUIVO
Smash Master
I think that Marth vs TL is 6-4 Toon link's favor.
Just space with projectiles and approach with nairs/bairs.
Just space with projectiles and approach with nairs/bairs.
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Dude, feel free to post whatever you want, we're the community and it's up to us to help each other out. However, if I disagree with something you say I'll probably ask you about it to clarify...But yeah, feel free to help as much as possible.i'm thinking marth is 5/5 even, despite toon link's difficulty in landing the KO, i still don't lose more than i win vs marth (building damage with projectiles is fine, but it's tough to get inside to f or u smash)
Are these matchup analyses open for anyone to write, or do you only want to post your own? I'd love to contribute, pending your approval of what I have to say.
harvest flavored blue cookies for me, good quote3) There's two suns and no women; what the hell am I supposed to do??? (cookies for anyone who gets the reference)
Good shit.harvest flavored blue cookies for me, good quote
i agree 100%harvest flavored blue cookies for me, good quote
wolf has the advantage on tl, reflector spam acts like a mini counter, and wolf is too fast to camp against.
Wolf has more advantages that can be dealt with at a minimal price.
I say 6:4 wolf although I wouldnt be surprised if tournaments show 7:3 wolf
IMO Wolf is the ideal TL counter
1) Most Diddy Kongs don't touch the peanut popper except for edge guarding, its doesn't give Diddy an advantage, but it also doesn't mean Toon Link can counter the peanut gun, because every character can get around peanuts, so few Diddy's even bother using it.Diddy Kong- Diddy is no slouch, and this matchup should be approached with a bit more caution than the previous two. Diddy has his peanut gun as a projectile, but this should pose no threat to you. If he fires his gun uncharged, it has no range, and bounces so you can either jump over and arrow him, or let it bounce over you while you arrow him. If he charges his gun up, the peanut will move in a straight line, and deal more damage. There are so many ways to deal with this, but I'll just name a few. You can use platforms and throw projectiles from there, you can let the peanut hit Toon Link's shield, you can powershield it...It's really not a threat. The real danger begins when Diddy gets up close. Diddy is a combo machine, and if you're not careful you may end up finding yourself in a string of attacks that could lead up to around 40% damage. A lot of Diddy's combos begin with his dash attack, and will lead into Utilts or Uairs. If you get caught in these combos, you can airdodge out of them if you time it correctly. Regardless, you'll still be in a bad position since your opponent can predict your airdodge, so you want to avoid this situation altogether. The best way to stop any approach of Diddy's is by a retreating Nair or Fair. You outrange almost all of his attacks, so feel free to aerial him all day. Beware of his Ftilt, which does have a ton of range, and also his Dsmash. His Dsmash hits both in front and in back of him, so you'll most likely be seeing this move after they roll or spotdodge. Although you can outcamp Diddy, he's definitely not without tricks of his own. Bananas are highly considered by many to be the most annoying projectiles in the game. Diddy can set up stage control with them, lead into combos...The possibilites are endless really. Luckily for Toon Link, he can just stay far away and spam projectiles. Or, if that's not your style, you can even pick up the bananas and throw them back at Diddy Kong. Edgeguarding Diddy is a cinch. Most of the time, I would recommend using nairs or fairs, but if you feel you have a grasp on his recovery and you're feeling confident...Heh, Dair the snott out of them. As always, you can always harass Diddy's recovery with projectiles, but most of the time I would go for the kill, since it's so easy. Be careful of his Up B spike, should you somehow find yourself underneath the barrels. This matchup can be very tricky when Diddy gets up close, but if you follow this general gameplan you should end up alright: Force Diddy to approach with projectiles, use retreating aerials on his shield, and make sure you keep your distance. If he gets up close, Dsmash and jab series work well to create space. 6/10 Toon Link
1. Ok, Peanut gun is irrelevant if you say so....It's more bananas that you should be worried about I guess. I don't feel like Bananas are as much of a problem with Toon Link as there are for other characters though, although I will completely admit, I do not have as much experience in this matchup as I would like to have. However, I know a popular banana strategy is to keep them grouped together, and if you keep them grouped together vs Toon Link and he's behind them...He's not in a very bad position like most characters. He now has a wall in which to use his projectiles from, and if you do approach with a dash attack, he can just hookshot grab you, which will grab you from VERY far away....He has other options too, but grabbing seems to be the best.1) Most Diddy Kongs don't touch the peanut popper except for edge guarding, its doesn't give Diddy an advantage, but it also doesn't mean Toon Link can counter the peanut gun, because every character can get around peanuts, so few Diddy's even bother using it.
2) Young Link can't just spam projectiles. This sorta goes back to the early camping theories of Brawl. Diddy can rush down ANY camper, glide tossing out of a shield is awesome. Aside from just banana rush downs you can also Diddy hump rush down. Check around the 2:40 mark in the video I posted to see what I'm talking about.
3) Diddy's recovery is hard as hell to gimp with any character. Over B gets refreshed if they are hit, Peanut gun/if a banana is in hand you can annoy the edge guarder, peanut gun can be fired backward for horizontal distance (Diddy can make the loop underneath stages like Smashville/Battlefield because of this technique). UpB is hard to edge guard if the Diddy knows how to position away from projectiles (this is very easy, its the same as Marth's recovery from Melee).
4) Diddy will rarely upB spike, there is much more to worry about from his Dair spike, which will **** any Toon Link who doesn't get the sweet spot on his upB (this would be rare against a good TL). The alternative is that Diddy can also get to the side of YL during the recovery and Diddy hump him.
5) Air dodging is dangerous against any character/player who knows you intend to airdodge, in the match below, watch at the 2 minute match where YL air dodges and I simply wait and then smack him with an Fair. Air dodging is not the combo ender that early Brawl theorists claimed.
6) Ftilt owns boomarang, view combo video.
AlphaZealot (Diddy Kong) vs Zoo (Toon Link)
You can also watch YL get some combo action on him in the combo video I have posted in my profile.
Note: not saying that YL I played there is awesome, but I've played a bunch of YL's and its one of the easier match ups because YL dies at much lower percentages that most of Diddy's match ups, and that happens to be pretty much the biggest thing holding Diddy back. For comparison, watch the Diddy-Bowser match up, Game 2, between me and KishSquared, I dish out an average of 179% damage for each of Bowser's stocks. Diddy wll combo you. He will get in on you. You have to be offensive and out damage him/get kills on him before he gets them on you.
Most of the theories about repelling Diddy (like being able to gain control of nanas, which while possible, won't occur often or enough to offset the amount of control Diddy will usually have) are routed more in theory than in practice, and this is partly because Diddy players are a rarity.
Right. I didn't say that, did I?True too. Not that great of a TL, though not using Bair doesn't define how good you are with Toon Link. =/
Understood. I myself find bair to get a little more credit than it deserves.Granted. I just have an issue when other users (not necessarily yourself) start to define the quality of their characters by one move. It somewhat perpetuates a cycle of neglecting alot of your other moves.