Official Toon Link Match-Up Discussion Thread (Informative Posts/Guides in the OP)

[FOR SCIENCE]

Should I get a secondary for Rosa and or Sheik and if so who would be best?

 

[Dɛαd]

Should I get a secondary for Rosa and or Sheik and if so who would be best?

I don't think you need a secondary for Sheik imo.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

I am a Megaman main and a Kirby secondary, do you think toon link could deal againat Yoshi and Mario?

 

[CURRY]

I am a Megaman main and a Kirby secondary, do you think toon link could deal againat Yoshi and Mario?

Heh, I don't personally know the matchup since I don't go to tournaments actually, but in general, I don't think it's a good idea to have a tertiary. It's common enough to have a secondary, but maining three characters could lead to worse play compared to if you just use one or two. I suggest you to just re-evaluate character choices, or to stick with two of the three characters you mentioned.

Here's a great thing by Kirbykaze about secondaries, but it could also apply to just alternate characters in general:
http://smashboards.com/threads/secondary-characters-for-a-falco-main.317135/#post-14067591

"When they encounter something their playstyle can't beat, rather than modify it or learn more, they switch characters so they can use a different rigid playstyle with their new character. I feel this kind of thing stunts growth and leads to low player depth."

This is exactly the thing we all want to avoid when considering alternate characters.

 

[Halfy]

I am a Megaman main and a Kirby secondary, do you think toon link could deal againat Yoshi and Mario?

IMO we beat Yoshi but lose to mario

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Heh, I don't personally know the matchup since I don't go to tournaments actually, but in general, I don't think it's a good idea to have a tertiary. It's common enough to have a secondary, but maining three characters could lead to worse play compared to if you just use one or two. I suggest you to just re-evaluate character choices, or to stick with two of the three characters you mentioned.

Here's a great thing by Kirbykaze about secondaries, but it could also apply to just alternate characters in general:
http://smashboards.com/threads/secondary-characters-for-a-falco-main.317135/#post-14067591

"When they encounter something their playstyle can't beat, rather than modify it or learn more, they switch characters so they can use a different rigid playstyle with their new character. I feel this kind of thing stunts growth and leads to low player depth."

This is exactly the thing we all want to avoid when considering alternate characters.

But in this ge thsre is a huge roster so one shouldn't limit oneself to 1 main unless you use a Top Tier

 

[FOR SCIENCE]

But in this ge thsre is a huge roster so one shouldn't limit oneself to 1 main unless you use a Top Tier

Why? Just because the roster is big doesnt mean having more characters will make you better.

 

[Froggy]

Any advice on how to fight little Mac? His high speed and armor on his moves completely counteracts my interruptive play style, his damage output makes a game of attrition a bad idea as well. I'm thinking of trying to go super agro next time but I'm not expecting very positive results from that. Anything to the matchup I should be aware of?

 

[Vapo]

This is purely from experience and I kinda suck so take this with a grain of salt but:

I like to abuse Little Mac's horrible recovery by back-throwing him off of stage if possible once he hits around 60+% and being able to zone him out of side-b range with projectiles. It's Little Mac's biggest weakness and can be easily abused due to Tink's air game and back-throw having the knockback it does due to kill throw power. Tink's air game and zoning makes it somewhat easy to avoid Little Mac's attacks. During super armour if you're able to I think Tink's grounded Up-B can get him out of super armour, but I have no way of testing so forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

[FOR SCIENCE]

So ive heard we beat yoshi. How? He has great sheild pressure frame data mobility combos kill power and camping and tinks style lets his crappy grab off scot free.

Any advice on how to fight little Mac? His high speed and armor on his moves completely counteracts my interruptive play style, his damage output makes a game of attrition a bad idea as well. I'm thinking of trying to go super agro next time but I'm not expecting very positive results from that. Anything to the matchup I should be aware of?

Agro is a bad idea. Just play patient and always have a bomb ready

 

[Froggy]

Agro is a bad idea. Just play patient and always have a bomb ready

His roll is so quick that it's hard to pin him down, that in addition to the can side b punish over my projectiles just seems like a loosing battle.

 

[FOR SCIENCE]

His roll is so quick that it's hard to pin him down, that in addition to the can side b punish over my projectiles just seems like a loosing battle.

Side b should be reactable and bombs should help against the roll. I dont have a ton of experience with the mu but jab also seems like it would be good here

 

[Froggy]

Side b should be reactable and bombs should help against the roll. I dont have a ton of experience with the mu but jab also seems like it would be good here

jabs aren't good if he does a smash because his armor eats the attacks. The point of the side b is to react to your lag when you throw a projectile. Bombs are somewhat effective against the roll but it's not an effective answer to keep him out.

Vapo I definitely need to learn to edge guard Mac better with TL but I don't think jumping is going to be very helpful, Mac doesn't rely on jumping to get around projectiles like slower characters do.

 

[Halfy]

So ive heard we beat yoshi. How? He has great sheild pressure frame data mobility combos kill power and camping and tinks style lets his crappy grab off scot free.

We out camp Yoshi and he is easy to edgeguard

 

[FOR SCIENCE]

he is easy to edgeguard

Even when he still has his double jump? Because he usually would and the armor on that invalidates a lot of options.

 

[Halfy]

Even when he still has his double jump? Because he usually would and the armor on that invalidates a lot of options.

I'm pretty sure that fair hits him out of the second jump. Bombs might too.

 

[FOR SCIENCE]

I'm pretty sure that fair hits him out of the second jump. Bombs might too.

Cool. You learn new stuff erry day

At what range should we try to fight sheik at? Also, do we actually beat luigi now with his nerfs?

 

[Toon612Link]

Rob is the only character I have trouble with in the entire roster, does any other TL mains come across a good rob they couldn't do anything about? Especially after patch 1.1.1 I don't think I can beat him anymore.

 

[Moffe]

Rob is the only character I have trouble with in the entire roster, does any other TL mains come across a good rob they couldn't do anything about? Especially after patch 1.1.1 I don't think I can beat him anymore.

Rob isnt that bad. You just cant spam projectiles like normal or you will get owned.
He can react to your projectiles and outcamp you. Sometimes i wait for his down b and either catch or shield it and then get closer with a bomb. Just watch out for his grab. Dont use projectiles unless you are completely sure itll hit.

 

[Dasmilitus]

Rob is the only character I have trouble with in the entire roster, does any other TL mains come across a good rob they couldn't do anything about? Especially after patch 1.1.1 I don't think I can beat him anymore.

I start out doing absolutely nothing. I run with the arrow while holding a bomb so the arrow takes the top while I jc or bfo the bomv into a nair. That's my favorite opening but I usually just stick with zair to eat the top because robs hitbox is so huge. Upb can net you easy kills offstage. You can spam projectiles if you actually use zair to space or start combos. A good habit is to utilize zair more against characters that can reflect.

 

[CrazieCuban]

Question I was wondering if I could get some advice on the Toon Link vs Rosa match up as well as the Peach match up? We have a few of each of them at our weekly's and have ran into all of them at the past two and just not a huge fan of said match up's more so the Rosa match up.

 

[FOR SCIENCE]

What do we do against mega man? It says the mu is even but has no explination.

Question I was wondering if I could get some advice on the Toon Link vs Rosa match up as well as the Peach match up? We have a few of each of them at our weekly's and have ran into all of them at the past two and just not a huge fan of said match up's more so the Rosa match up.

Against peach rising zair is solid against float

 

[Enjeru Karasu]

Hello Toon Link mains! I'm a Yoshi main who's thinking about making Toon Link his main. I love Yoshi, but due to certain... Conditions, I'm having trouble learning a tech that is essentially to being a really good Yoshi. Toon Link fits me really well too and doesn't rely on a tech that I have trouble doing. Anyhow, I might as well give you advice on Yoshi, since he does seem to have a slight advantage over a Toon Link. He is my main right now, and I know some of the best Yoshi players out there, so I do kno whwt ai'm talking about. Haley As for answering your question about whether bomb or fair hits Yoshi out of his double jump... Well it depends. Yoshi's armor isn't super armor: it's knockback based Heavy armor. Heavy armor has a point where it doesn't work anymore. In Yoshi's case, if a move does enough knockback, then it'll bypass the armor and hit him normally. And as everyone in smash knows, the more damage someone has, the more knockback moves have on them. I cannot tell you the exact percents for those two moves, but you'll find out if you test it.

If you want to know anything about the Yoshi match up, don't hesitate to ask me.

Oh! One more thing while I'm here.

Should I get a secondary for Rosa and or Sheik and if so who would be best?

. Whether or not you feel like you need a secondary is up to you. I will say that it can be a dangerous mindset to have: don't let your first reaction be switching to another character if you have trouble against a match up. Focusing too much on the character and placing them ahead of improving your skills will not get you far.

Rosalina is just annoying for most characters. Even Zero has expressed his dislike of the character, despite running of of the two characters that I know for sure has an edge on Rose. There are two others that the Rose community say they have a disadvantage against: everyone else is neutral or in their favor. Rose's ice climber like mechanic is just annoying to deal with no matter what. Just get all the practice you can on them and find out what gives them trouble.

Shiek is defeinately not unbeatable for a toon link. Let me introduce you to Hyuga. Never heard of him? Well that's because he's a Toon Link who resides in Mexico and hasn't really come to the states. Things got interesting when Mr.R went down there and attended a tournament there. And Mr.R is probably the second best Shiek player after Zero (although he wasn't maining Shiek before Zero). Hyuga and Mr.R fought in the losers finals. It's a rather interesting match if I do say so myself.

 

[Kenny McDonnell]

I keep seeing falco's on anther's and it's a really hard MU and usually I lose. It's not as much of the projectiles being reflected but more being combo'd and ranged.

 

[Rucent]

The Sonic Match Up Thread is currently discussing Sonic vs Toon Link! We would love it if you gave us your input on the match up!

http://smashboards.com/threads/soni...5-pit-s-toon-link.390575/page-9#post-20389755

Thank you! :D

 

[Vapo]

Any tips for the Mario matchup? Cape absolutely destroys me no matter whether I go aggressive or campy. He also has an easy spike, easy bake uptilt/uair combos that destroy me and can literally fight fire with fire when it comes to projectiles.

 

[Halfy]

Any tips for the Mario matchup? Cape absolutely destroys me no matter whether I go aggressive or campy. He also has an easy spike, easy bake uptilt/uair combos that destroy me and can literally fight fire with fire when it comes to projectiles.

Bombs. Try to bait out Mario's cape, then go in during its cooldown. Bombs should also cut through fireballs.

For getting juggled, if you have a bomb remember you can z drop it while in the falling animation, this is probably our fastest option. If you don't have a bomb, ff nair can stop up air combos if you time it just right.

 

[JeremyTheBlack]

I recently started at my local scene with tourneys and such, and there is a pretty darn good there, and I'm having a bit of trouble. I generally hear the best thing to do is to try and get rid of Luma ASAP, and then she's a lot easier to deal with, and that has held to be true. My actual issue is getting rid of the Luma in the first place. I'm pretty new to the more competitive side of things, so any tips would be much appreciated!

 

[Moobussir]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I haven't seen much on Ryu yet, and I'd like to discuss the matchup to get something out there if possible.

I'm sorta a beginner on the boards so I'm not sure what popular opinion is, but I feel that Toon Link has a disadvantage on heavyweights like Donkey Kong, and Ryu is no different. Ryu can live to incredibly high percents thanks to his heavy weight, so killing with Up-Smash and Up-Air is rather hard, and his horizontal recovery is hard to gimp since Tatsu can occasionally eat arrows and boomerangs, and bombing him restores Tatsu, while Shoryuken is intimidating to challenge. Though it can still set up for a gimping combo at times.

On stage, his aerials have great range, and the pressure from them is hard to keep back. His ground game and ground combo's aren't too bad to deal with thanks to Toon Link's light weight making them less effective in general. But getting projectile combos is rather hard since you need to build up his percent before they start to connect thanks to his weight, and his air speed can potentially make them not the easiest to connect. The projectile keep-away doesn't seem to work well against him since he can eat attacks for a while and not be scared, he can shield his way in since his speed isn't too bad, and he has Focus Attack to deflect some as well. He can even camp if he wants with his manipulable Hadoken, though it's not that hard to deal with.

I have a few matches against a Ryu player. The first game was pools, and I think my very first tourney match (Game 1 was Toon Link), so I was still getting used to the whole thing (Forgive the explosive taunt, misinput XD), while the 2nd was where I tried very hard since it was Losers Finals (Games 1 and 4 are Toon Link)

https://youtu.be/TajmwMnzU-M (Pools)
https://youtu.be/i54JHyYm8n0 (Losers Finals) (11:22 is Toon Link)

These matches are old, and honestly I really sucked back here so I'm not exactly looking for a critique cause I've improved a lot since. The links are mostly to get into the mindset of playing Toon Link, as well to see what might have worked in some scenarios in general.. Hope to hear some discussion!

 

[G. Stache]

Hello Tink mains, the Luigi boards need your help for the MU of Luigi v Tink. Any info you want to give would be great. Just click on the link below.

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-match-up-discussion-thread.382918/page-13#post-20589452

 

[Moobussir]

I recently started at my local scene with tourneys and such, and there is a pretty darn good there, and I'm having a bit of trouble. I generally hear the best thing to do is to try and get rid of Luma ASAP, and then she's a lot easier to deal with, and that has held to be true. My actual issue is getting rid of the Luma in the first place. I'm pretty new to the more competitive side of things, so any tips would be much appreciated!

Do you have any matches vs your Rosalina? I haven't fought any in a long time so I can't provide the best knowledge, though I can say that even without Luma, Rosalina's hard to take out since her hitboxes are so large, and her Gravitational Pull makes her doubly hard to get in with. You'll need to mix-up and mindgame a lot, while staying as safe as you can. What stages do you often battle on? Check the stage thread to see what might be favourable to you.

Hello Tink mains, the Luigi boards need your help for the MU of Luigi v Tink. Any info you want to give would be great. Just click on the link below.

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-match-up-discussion-thread.382918/page-13#post-20589452

Just posted a message to the board. I'm rather new but I'll do my best to discuss with you guys.

 

[mdoepker]

Anybody else disliking Cloud right now

 

[Halfy]

Anybody else disliking Cloud right now

Cloud doesn't seem too hard a matchup. Just keep doing Tink things and u can ez mode him.

 

[mdoepker]

Cloud doesn't seem too hard a matchup. Just keep doing Tink things and u can ez mode him.

I'm actually having a lot of issues with him, although I am really new to Smash in general, let along Sm4sh. From what I've seen on Event Hubs it's one of his worst match-ups, but is this considered a reliable source? I mean, I get that Cloud is still new, but it's been about 2 days with him and he's already in unfavourable.

 

[Halfy]

I'm actually having a lot of issues with him, although I am really new to Smash in general, let along Sm4sh. From what I've seen on Event Hubs it's one of his worst match-ups, but is this considered a reliable source? I mean, I get that Cloud is still new, but it's been about 2 days with him and he's already in unfavourable.

I'm not sure if event hubs takes it seriously, but it isn't taken seriously by anyone else. Sonic 4th? Olimar below Lucina? Pit below dark pit? Link high tier?

Nah... eventhubs tier list is all kinds of screwed up.

Cloud really shouldn't be a problem at all for us considering how bad his projectile is, how easy he is to edgeguard, and how easy he is to combo. We also don't get combed by Cloud as hard as some other characters do due to our floatyness.

 

[mdoepker]

I'm not sure if event hubs takes it seriously, but it isn't taken seriously by anyone else. Sonic 4th? Olimar below Lucina? Pit below dark pit? Link high tier?

Nah... eventhubs tier list is all kinds of screwed up.

Cloud really shouldn't be a problem at all for us considering how bad his projectile is, how easy he is to edgeguard, and how easy he is to combo. We also don't get combed by Cloud as hard as some other characters do due to our floatyness.

Okay, that makes sense! I'm really just not used to our character yet haha.. But it appears that once I do I should be able to handle the match-up better! I have also noticed that if I play the same Cloud I get used to how they work (unless they seriously outclass me) and I can do better in later matches.

Also, how do you deal with the juggling with Cloud's uair? I find it really difficult to get back to the stage.

 

[Halfy]

Okay, that makes sense! I'm really just not used to our character yet haha.. But it appears that once I do I should be able to handle the match-up better! I have also noticed that if I play the same Cloud I get used to how they work (unless they seriously outclass me) and I can do better in later matches.

Also, how do you deal with the juggling with Cloud's uair? I find it really difficult to get back to the stage.

Pull bombs and go for ledge. If they get close to you for an up air, throw a bomb on their head. Airdodging can also be useful if you time it well, otherwise Cloud can read the airdodge and hit you afterwords.

 

[mdoepker]

Hmm, okay! I'll definitely try that out in one of the numerous times that I'll be playing a match with him on For Glory! somewhat soon haha

 

[Dre89]

If Toon Link is camping a Cloud, they'll just run away and charge limit, then downb kill you at 60% when you're in the air or something because Toon Link has heavyweight frame data with no range.

The burden is on Toon Link to be aggressive in this MU because Cloud gets much more reward from running away than Toon does.

 

[Halfy]

If Toon Link is camping a Cloud, they'll just run away and charge limit, then downb kill you at 60% when you're in the air or something because Toon Link has heavyweight frame data with no range.

The burden is on Toon Link to be aggressive in this MU because Cloud gets much more reward from running away than Toon does.

Lol if Cloud runs away, that does our zoning for us. He cant approach to use hit limit breaks, and neutral B is nowhere near useful for Cloud, even with limit break. Where on the stage would he be able to charge limit break freely? If he does this, throw a boomerang at him or something. We don't need to approach except when killing, which doesn't matter because we get guaranteed kills off of bomb.