Official Toon Link Match-Up Discussion Thread (Informative Posts/Guides in the OP)

[ephOE]

I wouldn't say Megaman's projectiles beat Toon Link's. Arrows and Boomerangs will neutralize/be neutralized by Crash Bomb and Metal Blade. ALL of Megaman's non-custom projectiles travel horizontally only, while Boomerangs can be angled and Arrows have an arc. Bombs will travel through lemons, and Hylian shield blocks lemons while walking. If anything, each characters projectiles can be used offensively against the other's, although I believe Toon Link comes out on top here because of his bombs, which are also extremely potent combo starters and KO setups. Megaman's F smash is an exception but obviously it's not something he can constantly throw out in the neutral.

I think Megaman's strengths in the MU are his horizontal aerial speed (which is great while Toon Link's is dismal) and his weight. Still, while his weight makes him harder to KO, it does make him more suceptible to a lot of Toon Link's favored combos. Since Utilt strings and different mixups seem to be the topic of discussion of late, this would be a good MU to do some testing in.

Zair will outrange Flame Sword and will cancel every one of Megaman's projectiles aside from Leaf Sheild. Megaman really has no reason to be using LS against Toon Link in the neutral though, however it can possibly be used to gimp Toon Link since Toon Link's recovery is generall very predictable (LS to footstool is a thing).

Megaman also has a lot of KO power but it's not necessarily the most reliable. His best KO option on Toon Link is almost certainly his Bair - a good move but also kind of obvious.

I think Final Destination is a good stage to choose in this MU, and as much as I hate Duck Hunt I think it's also an okay pick. I'd avoid Town and City because of the smaller side blast lines, where Megaman will have an easier time KOing. Halberd might also be good because the low ceiling favors Toon Link over Megaman, IMO, and also because Megaman can't recover too low on the ship without the risk of being caught underneath (same goes for Toon Link, but he has a tether as well).

Just remember to not let lemon spam get you frustrated and Toon Link should do fine.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't say Megaman's projectiles beat Toon Link's. Arrows and Boomerangs will neutralize/be neutralized by Crash Bomb and Metal Blade. ALL of Megaman's non-custom projectiles travel horizontally only, while Boomerangs can be angled and Arrows have an arc. Bombs will travel through lemons, and Hylian shield blocks lemons while walking. If anything, each characters projectiles can be used offensively against the other's, although I believe Toon Link comes out on top here because of his bombs, which are also extremely potent combo starters and KO setups. Megaman's F smash is an exception but obviously it's not something he can constantly throw out in the neutral.

I think Megaman's strengths in the MU are his horizontal aerial speed (which is great while Toon Link's is dismal) and his weight. Still, while his weight makes him harder to KO, it does make him more suceptible to a lot of Toon Link's favored combos. Since Utilt strings and different mixups seem to be the topic of discussion of late, this would be a good MU to do some testing in.

Zair will outrange Flame Sword and will cancel every one of Megaman's projectiles aside from Leaf Sheild. Megaman really has no reason to be using LS against Toon Link in the neutral though, however it can possibly be used to gimp Toon Link since Toon Link's recovery is generall very predictable (LS to footstool is a thing).

Megaman also has a lot of KO power but it's not necessarily the most reliable. His best KO option on Toon Link is almost certainly his Bair - a good move but also kind of obvious.

I think Final Destination is a good stage to choose in this MU, and as much as I hate Duck Hunt I think it's also an okay pick. I'd avoid Town and City because of the smaller side blast lines, where Megaman will have an easier time KOing. Halberd might also be good because the low ceiling favors Toon Link over Megaman, IMO, and also because Megaman can't recover too low on the ship without the risk of being caught underneath (same goes for Toon Link, but he has a tether as well).

Just remember to not let lemon spam get you frustrated and Toon Link should do fine.

I agree with most of this, except stages with lower ceilings are bad against Megaman because of his uair and usmash, and also that he's too heavy for us to easily kill off the top.
As for the match-up ratio with customs, imo it's probably Megaman's favour because of the bubble bomb thing, but only slightly his favour. His other customs can be annoying for us, too. And while piercing arrows generally are our best arrows against him, they won't help you that much if the Megaman isn't mindlessly spamming projectiles.

 

[Theis]

from my experience playing against ninjalink's megaman, Mid-range megaman wins the neutral because his lemons will come out faster than any projectile we throw at him. the obvious option is to go long ranged until we get our bombs in but even then the lemons can control us from even throwing it at an optimal range if a megaman spaces himself properly. its not hopeless but i definitely feel the MU is in his favor because his normals [lemons mostly]. its for this reason i feel the MU is closer to 45:55

 

[TriTails]

35:65

Eeeehhhhhh... I'm not too sure on this one. Luigi boards consider TL as one of Luigi's harder MUs.

Though, I disagree with THIS.

Luigi we just have to camp and avoid grabs

This mindset will completely get you bopped due to SH aerials that Luigi can pull out of nowhere. Simply avoiding grabs is not the way to beat Luigi. His aerials are all fast yet high damaging, and his various ACs helps. Did I mention Cyclone?

And the 'just camp him' irks me. Unless you are playing bad Luigis (Including me), or on Wi-Fi, Luigi can pretty much play it patient with Fireballs and shield your projectiles. When he DOES gets in, he'll make you eat percents for lunch.

Anyone have any experience with this MU? My experience reeks of laggy FGs.

 

[Yoh1]

What would you say is Toon's worst matchup and why?

Also whats the best way to deal with the sheik matchup?

 

[ephOE]

Eeeehhhhhh... I'm not too sure on this one. Luigi boards consider TL as one of Luigi's harder MUs.

Though, I disagree with THIS.

This mindset will completely get you bopped due to SH aerials that Luigi can pull out of nowhere. Simply avoiding grabs is not the way to beat Luigi. His aerials are all fast yet high damaging, and his various ACs helps. Did I mention Cyclone?

And the 'just camp him' irks me. Unless you are playing bad Luigis (Including me), or on Wi-Fi, Luigi can pretty much play it patient with Fireballs and shield your projectiles. When he DOES gets in, he'll make you eat percents for lunch.

Anyone have any experience with this MU? My experience reeks of laggy FGs.

Toon Link's horrible aerial speed means Luigi will get a lot of damage and KO setups off his grabs. Luigi has good approach options as well, although bombs do travel through fireballs (but not always Cyclone). Toon Link is also very, VERY susceptible to Luigi's Down B gimp (I played Boss in tournament today and he obliterated me with this) because of Toon Link's predictable recovery path.

Obviously Toon Link has some strengths in his zoning game but over time Luigi will be able to gain ground. I recommend stages like Town & City and Smashville, where Toon Link has platforms to help him escape.

Rather than camp, Toon Link has to play a very slippery zoning game and be very careful with what he commits to. It might be slightly better than the Sheik MU, but I normally do not use Toon Link to play against Luigi.

 

[TriTails]

Yeah. Well, LUIGI'S aerial speed is even more horrible.

And Luigi has bad approach options. Best he can do is to mix Fireballs and Cyclones up with dashing. Not sure how TL do with those though.

Though, y'all think this MU is not in TL's favor? I look forward when both boards meet. Maybe we can discuss this further. TL seem to be a great threat against Luigi if the plumber does not know the MU.

Personally. To me, TL isn't difficult, but more to annoying.

 

[Deleted member]

What would you say is Toon's worst matchup and why?

Also whats the best way to deal with the sheik matchup?

Sheik and Greninja without customs, Greninja with customs. Sheik's customs don't really hurt us at all but our fire arrows and sliding spin at least help us deal with her, but none of our customs help the Greninja match-up significantly at all. Customs or no customs, both charcters can get in on us very easily, can outcamp us (especially Greninja; Sheik's needle camping is at least punishable even if difficult), edge guard the crap out of us, can't really be edge guarded back which takes away our best way of getting kills, etc. Both have crazy aerials that just completely wreck ours; Greninja because of range and priority, Sheik because of combo ability, and both because of speed. The only real advantages we havr against them is the ability to wrack up serious damage with utilt, but both characters are so fast, have so much better range than us, and are difficult enough to punish that you're simply not going to get any utilts on a Greninja or Sheik who know what they're doing.

As for dealing with Sheik, watch out for grabs and fairs. If she does get a grab on you, DI away and jump as soon as you can, otherwise you might end up eating an upb or uair, both of which can kill. If she starts a fair combo on you, don't DI down or you're going to get grabbed as soon as you hit the ground. Utilt is good on her and you can end the combo with usmash or fsmash, but don't expect to get a utilt on her. Personally I like BF against Sheik since we benefit from platforms more than she does, and the combination of platforms and the stage being small makes it very easy to punish needle camping with boomerang glide>bomb>follow-up. BF becomes even better with customs because of the fire arrows. Don't go to FD unless you want to be needle camped endlessly. For custom moves, I've found 2121 to be best since the fire arrows make it harder for her to rush you down and can be used for getting kills if she's hit by one. I use the sliding spin upb to stop her from going off-stage to edge guard you; iirc upb2 beats all of her aerials except bair, and you can also upb over her if she's off-stage in an attempt to edge guard you. If she tries to edge guard your horizontal recovery on-stage wih the grenade, you can punish it with bomb>upb2, which can even kill if her % and your rage are high enough. If she's using the custom grenade with the smaller hitbox, keep in mind that it hitting you will send you towards her where you'll probably eat a tippered usmash. If you're on-stage when she uses it you can usually just run past it and punish it because of our quick-ish running speed + its tiny hitbox.

Also, lol @ the Luigi boards thinking the match-up is in Gay's favour. He out-camps us (his fireballs do eat our bombs btw) unless you're on a platform but then you'll be sharked to death, his close-combat game murders us, he's difficult to edge guard to get the kill, etc. It's easily one of our worst match-ups. I agree with Zan on it being 35:65.

 

[TriTails]

Well... LOL. One of us (And recently, me too. Not sure on the others, but most of them seemingly agree) thinks this MU is 6:4 TL...

I'm not sure on 35:65 Luigi though... He does not destroy characters aside from Ganon and D3. TL has his mobility to boot (It's very annoying to catch the elf), and can turn the entire stage into bomb field. This is at the very least, annoying for Luigi to maneuver due to his bad mobility.

He gets in though, he basically owns everyone (Even Ganon and Sheik).

...Do you all want me to call in Luigi boards? We'll want to discuss the little Link because TL is actually pretty good (Link is SUPPOSED to be good, but they ripped him to shreds with a few bugfixes). I myself am not too sure on 'Luigi out-camps TL'. Never in my gameplay have I ever out-camp TL (Though, laggy FGs may be a thing).

 

[Theis]

As for dealing with Sheik, watch out for grabs and fairs. If she does get a grab on you, DI away and jump as soon as you can, otherwise you might end up eating an upb or uair, both of which can kill. If she starts a fair combo on you, don't DI down or you're going to get grabbed as soon as you hit the ground. Utilt is good on her and you can end the combo with usmash or fsmash, but don't expect to get a utilt on her. Personally I like BF against Sheik since we benefit from platforms more than she does, and the combination of platforms and the stage being small makes it very easy to punish needle camping with boomerang glide>bomb>follow-up. BF becomes even better with customs because of the fire arrows. Don't go to FD unless you want to be needle camped endlessly. For custom moves, I've found 2121 to be best since the fire arrows make it harder for her to rush you down and can be used for getting kills if she's hit by one. I use the sliding spin upb to stop her from going off-stage to edge guard you; iirc upb2 beats all of her aerials except bair, and you can also upb over her if she's off-stage in an attempt to edge guard you. If she tries to edge guard your horizontal recovery on-stage wih the grenade, you can punish it with bomb>upb2, which can even kill if her % and your rage are high enough. If she's using the custom grenade with the smaller hitbox, keep in mind that it hitting you will send you towards her where you'll probably eat a tippered usmash. If you're on-stage when she uses it you can usually just run past it and punish it because of our quick-ish running speed + its tiny hitbox.

I play against VoiD's Sheik a lot and in personal experience i cant agree BF benifits us more than it does sheik. sheik's ground normals go through the platform where as ours dont and if you're trying to throw projectiles at her on a platform she has more than enough reaction time to get out of that situation and get in your face. our projectiles have a bad coverage when it comes to vertical space and its perfect for sheik to just jump in at us especially if she has higher ground. you'd honestly want to choose a stage like town and city or even FD because in neutral she can camp you out with needles but its not her best option if you're patient enough to stand there or slow walk to her. being patient in the matchup and keeping stage control is what you really want for dealing with sheik because her best getaway option is bouncing fish and it only goes so far. fire arrows suck against sheik because she doesnt need ground mobility to punish you for using them since bouncing fish jumps right over all your traps and its pretty safe on block so you want to use the default arrows since sh arrow makes using bouncing fishes less of an option in neutral and it increases your over all neutral game.

 

[ephOE]

myself am not too sure on 'Luigi out-camps TL'. Never in my gameplay have I ever out-camp TL (Though, laggy FGs may be a thing).

Luigi doesn't out-camp Toon Link but he can walk forward, shield when appropriate, and not give TL the space he wants to work with. In other words, Luigi doesn't out-camp but stalemates Toon Link. This puts TL in positions where he has to play the weave in and out style, where he will be close to Luigi. And Luigi beats pretty much everything we have up close.

Another issue is that it's not that hard for Luigi to shield what we throw at him, and TL's grab is so telegraphed that even when we condition the Luigi to shield, he can easily spot dodge and get a variety of punishes, including sweetspot Up B.

And like I mentioned earlier, Toon Link has almost no hope if he goes off stage.

You shouldn't really ever be using online experience to determine how an MU plays out, but if that's all you've got at least play someone from here (maybe even Anther's), but don't reference FG.

 

[RedTemplar]

The Luigi match up imo is decent, but it favoring luigi, even though the bombs can cover the ground well, if the Luigi gets close, and catches TL in the air. Luigi wins due to his aerials, especially since toon link needs to be in the air to get his bomb out asap. I'm actually surprise on the Yoshi MU, I personally have trouble with this match up like every time I use TL vs Yoshi, I usually end up loosing. Fox match up as well if they get the momentum going, not as bad, compared to Yoshi. idk maybe i'm just bad XD.

 

[ephOE]

Is there any hope for Toon Link against ZSS?

 

[theyellowigreninja]

"

Here are a couple things to watch out for:
-Being KO'd off stage early by an Aerial
-Don't roll back onto the stage from the ledge, he'll Usmash. Best to jump .
-His Dair, it works like DDD's Uspecial, having a huge broken hitbox that you cant see.
-You want to get back onstage ASAP if hurled of the ledge, his Dtilt will knock you off the ledge if you're attempting to snap onto the ledge for a second time.
-His OoS Uspecial.

Well, The Broken Hitbox of DDD's UpB Is actually the stars, from my experience. You can see them, but for, like, 5 Frames.

Is there any hope for Toon Link against ZSS?

Hmmm, Not really. Bombs are good, although a good ZZS player would dodge or block them. TL's 23 Custom UB Works Well against the Damage of ZZS's Recovery. That's, Kind of it though. The H-Shield Would block the Paralyzer, But I don't know about the SB...yeah.

 

[KT Kasrani]

I am a ghost from toon links past here to haunt this thread now

sup

 

[theyellowigreninja]

Is there any hope for Toon Link against ZSS?

Okay, so I was playing online against a ZZS (with TL, of course), and I realisd the best thing to do is to start with a Bow, and run in with a bomb, then UB (, ,,/,, and Land before the UB.). That is hard to pull off late in game, but, from my expirience, easiER at the start. Not easy, just easyER.
Brawl Mains:
Wii U/3DS Mains: /() (Yes, I am actually Amazing with ALL of these characters.)


Also, any info on Little Mac? I would think we would have an advantage, because we have
1. Good (enough) ledge gaurding,
2. Great Air Game (Bair, Fair, and maybe Dair? Not sure 'bout Dair or Uair), and
3. We can play "Stay Away" with Bombs, Boomerangs and Arrows.

Lastly, is it just me, or is TL's grab a little shorter and a little faster in 1.0.9?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Toon Links out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Toon Link. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Toon Link match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/409125/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What. @ Mario & Sonic Guy you can't do that! I was gonna do that!

Oh well...

http://smashboards.com/threads/charizard-matchup-discussion-toon-link.409707/

We at the Charizard boards were discussing the Toon Link vs Charizard matchup.

Come on over and tell us what you think.

Looks like you already talked about him here, but maybe we know some secret strats.

Like OUR projectile game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What. @ Mario & Sonic Guy you can't do that! I was gonna do that!

Do what exactly? If it's about Toon Link, his thread at Rosalina's sub-forum is not under any time limits.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do what exactly? If it's about Toon Link, his thread at Rosalina's sub-forum is not under any time limits.

It...

it was a joke....

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I'd have to guess Toon Link has a 45-55 to 4-6 disadvantage against Shulk. Back Slash will punish projectiles, his range is far greater than yours, and his Speed will negate them, move faster than you, and Toon Link has problems landing a solid punish on Shulk's lack of endlag on most of his moves.

It's mostly the range more than anything. Toon Link has a harder time getting in on Shulk than vice-versa.

 

[HFlash]

@ Rango the Mercenary It's funny how I was saying in another thread that shulk has the potential to be a top character when/if his metagame fully blossoms, and alot of people were saying that his frame data is too bad for that to be possible.

Also a question for you TL mains. I see you guys have CF listed as 55:45 based on a post 8 months old now. Do you guys still think this is true? And from C. Falcon's perspective, what does he have to do to get past the flurry of projectiles you throw?

 

[kinbobbobkin]

TL is one of my mains, but I seem to have a very hard time against a Rosalina. I can't seem to touch her and we I get close the invisible frame rate happens(dodging). Toon Link amongst my other characters has a disadvantage, and I don't know what to do.


Pac Man, is different. It gets to the point I have a hard time approaching him and when I try to get on, I get knocked off the stage by the fruit.

Please help.

 

[Dɛαd]

Spoiler

What you guys think about this?
I don't know what he's thinking loll

 

[Jash]

Spoiler

What you guys think about this?
I don't know what he's thinking loll

He obviously doesn't know the Toon Link matchup AT ALL, that matchup is even and once this thread gets updated you'll see a summary that explains why.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

He obviously doesn't know the Toon Link matchup AT ALL, that matchup is even and once this thread gets updated you'll see a summary that explains why.

I updated the OP a while ago and this included the ROB matchup.

 

[LotadAlittle]

I'm not sure if anyone already found this or not but against rosalina up throw can kill luma around the edge of the stage. Don't know how much use this has (nair/jab will probably be better) but still thought I'd share that in case it is of any use.

 

[Ikes]

I think Luigi loses to Tink 60:40, Toon link has an exceptionally easy time zoning out Luigi and is less susceptible to his combos due to being on the lighter end of middleweight. Toon Link can force shields just about as easily as Luigi can and has greater/more reliable kill options IMHO. Luigi can still win this and he's still scary to fight regardless, but Tink has the upper hand out of his setups and a greater neutral game. The only thing saving Luigi here I think is that Toon Link has almost no options to gimp anyone, his offstage game is considerably worse than most. His only offstage options are good above stage height.

In customs it's a hell of a lot worse for luigi, fire arrows stop fireballs entirely and floating boomerang sets up much better than his regular boomerang. Short fuse bomb is niche but can be used to avoid gimps, though regular bomb might be better here.

Probably 65:35/70:30 toon link's favor in customs. Luigi doesnt actually get too much out of customs except for niche moves like iceball and the cyclone variants. Quick Missile is probably his only overall better custom.

 

[xSnaggleTooth]

Can someone explain the Toon Link vs Rosalina matchup. Rosalinas are like one of the hardest matchups for me. Like give all details on how to successfully beat rosalina in the safest way possible. Thank you.

 

[Moffe]

I think Luigi loses to Tink 60:40, Toon link has an exceptionally easy time zoning out Luigi and is less susceptible to his combos due to being on the lighter end of middleweight. Toon Link can force shields just about as easily as Luigi can and has greater/more reliable kill options IMHO. Luigi can still win this and he's still scary to fight regardless, but Tink has the upper hand out of his setups and a greater neutral game. The only thing saving Luigi here I think is that Toon Link has almost no options to gimp anyone, his offstage game is considerably worse than most. His only offstage options are good above stage height.

In customs it's a hell of a lot worse for luigi, fire arrows stop fireballs entirely and floating boomerang sets up much better than his regular boomerang. Short fuse bomb is niche but can be used to avoid gimps, though regular bomb might be better here.

Probably 65:35/70:30 toon link's favor in customs. Luigi doesnt actually get too much out of customs except for niche moves like iceball and the cyclone variants. Quick Missile is probably his only overall better custom.

I disagree with almost everything you wrote. For some reason I dont think you have met a competent Luigi. I find Sheik matchup easier than Luigi. And Luigi has way greater and more reliable kill options and thats not just my opinion. Its basicly on paper also. Its true that we might not have the best offstage game, but I would say we have more offstage options than most, but usually not as deep as Luigi can recover (if hes competent).

Luigi can gimp us offstage with a well placed down b.

 

[KawKa]

I do not main toon link nor do I secondary him but i'm curious on how he stands up against top tier players.

 

[Itano Circus]

I thought the Luigi matchup was even. Then I played J.Miller. Dude power-shielded and fox trotted through every single projectile I threw. Pretty much negating one of the main penance a Luigi pays for having such a damn strong neutral game. Then grabs happened.

Luigi has a hard time getting in, but once he does, it's business as usual against Toon. Add the blender-gimping factor and we have our work cut out IMO.

But we do have our tools in this MU.
- He can't just use his fireballs to cover his approach against us and win the neutral for free, (like he does vs most of the cast), and he can eat bombs through them.
- Links special shield (press nothing, I'm new here I don't know the technical name for it yet ) I usually let myself auto-block a fireball, and most Luigi's love to go for the inevitable dash grab, bringing them into my tether-range.
- F-tilts out range Luigi if he doesn't have a fireball cover himself.

But yeah, that blender gimp is pretty much gg's for Tink.

I want to tentatively say 55:45 Luigi's favour, provided the Luigi knows what they're doing. Down to the fact that once Luigi starts perfect shielding on reaction and safely dashing in, Toon has to make some risky tether-grab reads to open him up. Miss one of those against a switched-on Luigi and it's Uppercut/beddy-bies.
"Tentatively" because, as always, I want more matchup experience and to reassess.

P.S. My sparring partner is a "competent" Luigi, and I can tell I have him pulling his hair out about the MU. But I really feel that Toons gaping defensive holes got opened up against a higher tier of opponent.

 

[Itano Circus]

I would however like to know what you guys do in te Adult Link MU?

I generally see that I get bodied by my grown up self in tournament. His projectiles aren't quite as handy as ours, against other members of the cast. I mean boomerang only pushes on return, and his bombs don't explode on contact with the ground. However at range this is more than enough to negate our own range game. Forcing us to come in close to get the KO's.

This is where we die. Up close I find that he has our moves, with more range and knockback. Once we're at mid-high percent tilts send us nearly to the boundary, and smashes are going to be gg's.

At the ledge, we aren't too short to have both roll and jump options covered by his monster u-smash either.

I usually find SH diagonal down boomerang, hard reading any of his projectiles is enough to get some offence started. Usually fair combo or get some close bomb pressure. But whiff anything significant and it's going to cost a stock at anywhere upwards of 67-70%.

What gets you guys through Mirai-Link?

EDIT: Usually I find that bad Links will dash attack, as they've had success with it vs other bad players. But once better Links start dashing-in mixing up with his tether grab (which is dangerous from much further away than ours) we face a tough battle to maintain defensive positions near the edge of the stage.

 

[Tri Knight]

I would however like to know what you guys do in te Adult Link MU?

I generally see that I get bodied by my grown up self in tournament. His projectiles aren't quite as handy as ours, against other members of the cast. I mean boomerang only pushes on return, and his bombs don't explode on contact with the ground. However at range this is more than enough to negate our own range game. Forcing us to come in close to get the KO's.

This is where we die. Up close I find that he has our moves, with more range and knockback. Once we're at mid-high percent tilts send us nearly to the boundary, and smashes are going to be gg's.

At the ledge, we aren't too short to have both roll and jump options covered by his monster u-smash either.

I usually find SH diagonal down boomerang, hard reading any of his projectiles is enough to get some offence started. Usually fair combo or get some close bomb pressure. But whiff anything significant and it's going to cost a stock at anywhere upwards of 67-70%.

What gets you guys through Mirai-Link?

EDIT: Usually I find that bad Links will dash attack, as they've had success with it vs other bad players. But once better Links start dashing-in mixing up with his tether grab (which is dangerous from much further away than ours) we face a tough battle to maintain defensive positions near the edge of the stage.

Keep in mind that Link also suffers from very sluggish movements and attacks. His end lag on his tilts are pretty bad. It takes a significant amount of time to even just jump squat with Link. At some point let Link try to hit you with something on shield and I can guarantee you'll punish anything he throws at you. Link's able to tank hits quite a bit however so that's one thing to keep in mind when trying to kill.

Toon Link on the other hand has pretty decent ground speed and great aerial maneuverability. Much better end lag on his attacks. Has actual set-ups to his projectiles that can kill (which is asissted by his overall mobility). Out camps Link if need be. Juggles Link well enough.

Cqc is sort of a grey area to me but one thing to keep in mind is normally this MU turns into a projectile fest so I can't see the match turning extensively into a sword fight.

Overall in this MU, Toon Link and Link try to do similar things... Toon Link just does it a lot better and therefore has the advantage.

 

[WispBae]

Hey there, wind wakers! (Oh gosh you're almost as cute as us!)

The Doggy boards are discussing this MU and would love your input on it!

Click Hipster Link to go straight to the thread!

@Yackabean plz respond, you fight one of our main doggies very often D=

 

[miniada]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...IC7qHJJi-msSzsQrQ&sig2=FIsTfuK6iXEY8nwm3p2sww were discussing discussing toon link and the rest of the zelda crew and would love your input

 

[Deleted member]

From the Skype group, because @Cyrene is being too lazy to post it here:
Cyrene: "Well I'd like to argue that even on a platform stage, lm is going to generally make it hard for you to get to that bottom platform. Little mac has an obviously strong neutral game and while we can generally carry him off, toon link is just a slow ****ing character and honestly has some quite **** kill options. You need your setups and you need to take him off stage. Teach a little mac to power shield (Which really isn't that ****ing hard) And the matchup changes and then toon link ends up having to play a more baity game."

 

[Saike]

This thread needs more life. We were discussing the Little Mac match-up today in the Skype social group chat.
Little Mac struggles against approaching projectile based characters. This gives Toon Link some advantage. All you have to do is bait out attacks to punish while you camp him out.
Platform stages like Battlefield, Town and City, and Smashville are decent options against Little Mac. Toon Link however should still play safe since Little Mac hits extremely hard and has the K.O. ability to top it off. Hitting him with projectiles will only increase his rage and K.O. bar, so it's best to try and take him out before that happens.

Landing a grab is going to be a big key into gaining advantage and ultimately winning the match. I personally like to grab him if he tries to approach or force him to shield while spamming projectiles and go for an aggressive grab. If you can get a grab at the edge of the platform, you can throw him off with a forward-throw or back-throw to get him offstage and give you a much better advantage. Up-throw is also an option if you don't think you can get him off the stage with a forward or back-throw.

Little Mac's best stages revolve around stages that don't have platforms like Final Destination or Omega stages. This is because Little Mac is strongest when he's grounded, and being anywhere above that puts him in a bad position.

Against a well played Little Mac that knows how to powershield approach and play safe may be difficult. If you also fail to kill before rage builds up or the K.O. bar building up, you're forced to play even more safely, so I think the match-up ratio would be only slightly in Toon Link's favor: 55:45

My opinion on the match-up ratios against the main cast:

 

[Halfy]

My opinion on the match-up ratios against the main cast:

Call me crazy, but I don't think the sheik matchup is that bad.
Oh, and we DEFINITELY lose to Mario.



And wtf, we should win the toon link matchup 75:25

 

[Saike]

Thought about it more and updated it. I do agree with your statements.