Toad parade - Oh boy it's Els--- I mean, Rosalina

[ClubbyBear]

There's so much debate, I think I'll start posting them here;
toadabuse.blogspot.com

 

[Gallowglass]

Since unique playstyle matters so much... if Rosalina can get in Smash with moves that Mario used in Galaxy games, then why is it out of the question for Toad to get in Smash with moves that Mario used in New Super Mario Bros. games? Why does the Galaxy games get a character but the NSMB games don't get a character? Toad could have gotten the iceballs, propeller helmet, grabbing/carrying/throwing opponents (to display his superhuman strength), poison and golden mushrooms to shrink his opponents and boost his own speed respectively (from the Mario Kart series)... hell, even mushroom-based powers based on many various mushroom power-ups throughout the Mario games could have given Toad an unique playstyle... why are so many people so close-minded about Toad and his abilities?

Unique play styles? What is WiiFit Trainer's unique play style?

 

[Big-Cat]

Unique play styles? What is WiiFit Trainer's unique play style?

At the very least, she seems to be very fundamentals oriented. Not very combo heavy, but she makes up for it with explosive power. That's my guess, but we haven't seen enough of her in action to really tell.

 

[ChronoBound]

Toad really deserved better this time around. Really sad.

 

[Arcadenik]

Unique play styles? What is WiiFit Trainer's unique play style?

She fights by exercising. That's what makes her unique, apparently. It's like when you see these sitcoms where girls are dancing and they accidentally hit other dancers. That's Wii Fit Trainer...

Toad really needs to have a mushroom-based moveset... using mushrooms to alter his own stats and his opponents' stats. Super Mushroom to make himself bigger/stronger/heavier... Mini Mushroom to make his opponents smaller/weaker/lighter... Poison Mushroom to shrink his opponents with the added effect of poisoning a la Lip's Stick... Golden Mushroom to boost his speed... Propeller Mushroom for recovery, obviously... spraying spores to turn his opponent into mushrooms a la Super Mario RPG... growing mushrooms to bounce projectiles back at the opponents... all these with his superhuman strength where he can pick up and carry opponents around like Donkey Kong... including grabbing opponents in the air... throwing opponents towards other opponents like they are living projectiles or even using opponents as meat shields... but God forbid Toad get a made-up moveset or get moves that Mario did in the Mario games even though he won't use them in Smash games.

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh I'm not sure if posting this will rub salt on the wound (Which is not my intention, mind) but I was just wondering.

Spoiler

It's a bit hard to see, but is that another Toad inside that yellow Toad ship? It looks vaguely like the blue Toad but it may just be nothing at all. :/

Not that I expect to see another Mario newcomer now that we got Rosalina but if that is Toad then at least you guys can put the whole "There can't be multiple Toads" argument to rest...

 

[Autumn ♫]

Eh I'm not sure if posting this will rub salt on the wound (Which is not my intention, mind) but I was just wondering.

Spoiler

It's a bit hard to see, but is that another Toad inside that yellow Toad ship? It looks vaguely like the blue Toad but it may just be nothing at all. :/

Not that I expect to see another Mario newcomer now that we got Rosalina but if that is Toad then at least you guys can put the whole "There can't be multiple Toads" argument to rest...

Yep, that's Toad alright.

 

[FirstBlade]

@Chronobound, I don't want to make this worse than it already is but I really feel Rosa's reveal was the nail in the coffin for Toad. The daily picture of Link shooting an arrow at Toad before Rosa's reveal made it all the more worse for me. It really feels to me that Sakurai just doesn't like Toad at all. If there was to be a 5th Mario character I definitely thought Toad would have been the best choice/most deserving but...
Now I see that Sakurai clearly doesn't value importance as much as I thought he did. Toad has been around for ages as a staple Mario character and was playable in the last few Mario main games. He is one of the most well known Nintendo characters actually even if he doesn't turn heads like Mario and Link. He also was supposedly the 8th most popular video game character in Japan (not necessarily for Smash though) so he has popularity to boot (and is clearly more popular than Rosalina for that matter). Yet he is meat shield.... if Sakurai doesn't like Toad can't he just come out and say it (of course it is likely this is not the case but it certainly seems that way.)
This is actually a bit scary to me. I honestly wasn't a hardcore Toad supporter because I didn't think Mario NEEDED another rep, but seeing a less important character picked over a staple seems odd. So did Sakurai pick Rosalina solely for uniqueness? I think this is unfair and this actually quite honestly makes me nervous for future reveals. I'm starting to doubt a lot of the picks I made on my roster. To me there seems to be some obvious "all-stars" still blatantly missing from Smash roster like Ridley, King K. Rool and Little Mac and I now feel they are in danger since importance certainly doesn't seem like something Sakurai values that much and this kind o shows with certain characters being shafted. I don't want to imagine what secondary characters could get in over them for being unique. Only time will tell because it will probably be pretty obvious at the end of this roster.

 

[Louie G.]

Wow, things are just getting worse and worse for poor old Toad.
I am still very much a supporter, but man.

 

[YoshiandToad]

To me there seems to be some obvious "all-stars" still blatantly missing from Smash roster like Ridley, King K. Rool and Little Mac and I now feel they are in danger since importance certainly doesn't seem like something Sakurai values that much and this kind o shows with certain characters being shafted. I don't want to imagine what secondary characters could get in over them for being unique. Only time will tell because it will probably be pretty obvious at the end of this roster.

Expect to see Anthony Higgins(who will use ice lasers and a big ass chain gun because we haven't had anyone with one of those yet), Lanky Kong(with his long reach and bizarre moves he's unique) and a third Mother character instead of those wants. Third Mother rep is Ninten. He's unique because we haven't had a character with a bandanna around his neck yet(also deconfirms Bowser Jr.) although his moveset remains the same.

On a serious note I want to say Sakurai's just pretty quirky with his picks. This is the guy who picked Ice Climbers, Wii Fit Trainer and Solid Snake for his Nintendo All Stars game, none of which I would honestly consider an All Star except Snake who fails in the Nintendo aspect instead and opened up the floodgates for non Nintendo characters.

I can't pretend I'm exactly hopeful for Ridley right now, but there's a possibility for him still, but still a fair chance he'll return as a boss/stage hazard. Little Mac seemed like a shoo-in, but there's a slim chance he'll be returning as an Assist Trophy. K. Rool hasn't had a past role in Smash so who knows what Sakurai's stance is on him. Cross your fingers.

Alternatively this may just be bitter fanboyism speaking.

But I think there's some logic to what you say; Sakurai IS unpredictable, but he's never been quite this unpredictable. Holding off on Toad til this game was fine, but with so few actual stars left I'm really surprised Rosalina got in over both Toad and Bowser Jr. Or even Waluigi. Talk about a dark horse.

 

[SethTheMage]

To me there seems to be some obvious "all-stars" still blatantly missing from Smash roster like Ridley, King K. Rool and Little Mac and I now feel they are in danger since importance certainly doesn't seem like something Sakurai values that much and this kind o shows with certain characters being shafted. I don't want to imagine what secondary characters could get in over them for being unique. Only time will tell because it will probably be pretty obvious at the end of this roster.

To be fair, I don't think that King K. Rool would lose any points because he has so much potential to be unique. But, maybe Little Mac and Ridley could get shafted for this.

 

[Ultinarok]

Unique play styles? What is WiiFit Trainer's unique play style?

Her attacks are yoga poses. That's definitely unique.

 

[Gallowglass]

Her attacks are yoga poses. That's definitely unique.

Really now?

Spoiler

 

[ClubbyBear]

Sakurai recently announced a new minigame.

Spoiler

 

[Starbound]

First of all, I'll begin by saying that I do support Toad's inclusion in Smash.

Since unique playstyle matters so much... if Rosalina can get in Smash with moves that Mario used in Galaxy games, then why is it out of the question for Toad to get in Smash with moves that Mario used in New Super Mario Bros. games? Why does the Galaxy games get a character but the NSMB games don't get a character? Toad could have gotten the iceballs, propeller helmet, grabbing/carrying/throwing opponents (to display his superhuman strength), poison and golden mushrooms to shrink his opponents and boost his own speed respectively (from the Mario Kart series)... hell, even mushroom-based powers based on many various mushroom power-ups throughout the Mario games could have given Toad an unique playstyle... why are so many people so close-minded about Toad and his abilities?

I really think you're missing the big picture here. It's not that Toad isn't unique. Every character can be made unique. The big picture is that Mario power ups, super human strength or mushrooms isn't as unique as what Sakurai was able to do with Rosalina. Uniqueness is relative.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toon Link isn't that unique.

 

[ClubbyBear]

First of all, I'll begin by saying that I do support Toad's inclusion in Smash.




I really think you're missing the big picture here. It's not that Toad isn't unique. Every character can be made unique. The big picture is that Mario power ups, super human strength or mushrooms isn't as unique as what Sakurai was able to do with Rosalina. Uniqueness is relative.

Seriously Though; We haven't seen any spin off characters besides DK, right? And they'll be 5 in this game, right? Toad?

 

[Starbound]

Toon Link isn't that unique.

Toon Link isn't a newcomer.
Rosalina is.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Seriously Though; We haven't seen any spin off characters besides DK, right? And they'll be 5 in this game, right? Toad?

Unfortunately I don't think Wario's Woods is a strong enough candidate to stand out alone for Toad. Peach isn't a Super Princess Peach rep(obviously judging by her moves) and Luigi isn't a Luigi's Mansion rep(again, lack of Poltergust gives it away). Luigi's Mansion is probably more deserving of being a spinoff worth representing with Luigi than Wario's Woods is.

That pains me to say that. Especially since I played some today for an hour.

Plus I can't see Toad getting in without having the mushroom symbol. I mean...it suits him best!

 

[Forcerounds]

Toad's main uniqueness problem is that everything he can do is something the Mario Bros. and Peach can do. Despite any creative attempts we make to justify Toad's uniqueness, the fact that he is sort of redundant 4th wheel with a fanbase that even Iwata is surprised about remains.

Supporting Toad is still fun though. I liked the moveset I made for him.

 

[ClubbyBear]

Unfortunately I don't think Wario's Woods is a strong enough candidate to stand out alone for Toad. Peach isn't a Super Princess Peach rep(obviously judging by her moves) and Luigi isn't a Luigi's Mansion rep(again, lack of Poltergust gives it away). Luigi's Mansion is probably more deserving of being a spinoff worth representing with Luigi than Wario's Woods is.

That pains me to say that. Especially since I played some today for an hour.

Plus I can't see Toad getting in without having the mushroom symbol. I mean...it suits him best!

They could do kind of a Meta Knight thing, same icon, but different victory and stuff.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toon Link isn't a newcomer.
Rosalina is.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Toon Link was a newcomer in Brawl... he wasn't unique then and he still isn't.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Off topic as heck, but with the new emphasis being on uniqueness, I'm really surprised Sakurai didn't try and give Toon Link a more unique moveset, whilst tweaking Pit and Bowser.

On topic as heck:

Toad's main uniqueness problem is that everything he can do is something the Mario Bros. and Peach can do. Despite any creative attempts we make to justify Toad's uniqueness, the fact that he is sort of redundant 4th wheel with a fanbase that even Iwata is surprised about remains.

Pretty much. Hoping this fanbase surprise makes ol' Miyamoto try and put some emphasis on defining Toad better if even by a little bit. I mean he's got spores, he's got flame kicks(apparently; thanks Super Strikers), he can summon shrooms, Wario's Woods deal, etc, but this is mostly in spinoff stuff which obviously doesn't matter much to Sakurai when it comes to Mario(not including DK, Yoshi and Wario, strictly Mario spinoffs). Maybe that's why Luigi doesn't get his Poltergust and Peach gets no Super Princess Peach moves?

Yes I'm aware I sound like a broken record going on about Luigi and Peach deserving stuff from their own games. But they really do deserve the things from their spinoffs.

 

[Forcerounds]

What Toad could really use in the future is a playable role in a Mario RPG. Wouldn't it be cool if the next Mario & Luigi game also included Peach & Blue Toad? And they could each have their own special abilities? Sakurai pays attention to spin off games sometimes. Peach using a frying pan is straight out of Super Mario RPG.

Aside from that, if Toad is to be playable in more Mario platformers, I suspect he will. I hope he has something different going for him other than just being fast. If Super Mario 3D World did anything wrong for Toad, it's getting rid of his unparalleled strength from SMB2. It's all up to Miyamoto and his favored successors now.

 

[ClubbyBear]

This is how I'd imagine Toad's character page; Anyone have the editing skills to make one that looks like a real one?

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

Toad would be best suited as a "Mario Kart" character now.
Outside of Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and Yoshi, Toad is the only character to be in every MK to date.
The concept of a recurring spin-off Toad ambassador started in Super Mario Kart.
Toadettes debuted in Mario Kart Double Dash.
Toad is seen as a mascot of sorts by fans. (Cuz he is THE BED )

So, you should all be asking for this:

Since a pair of plain ol' mushroom people in a mobile go-kart is a pretty unique concept. And yes, you play as them IN the kart. And can even switch who's driving (whoever isn't is the one that uses items ala Double Dash.)

I'm only 75% kidding.

 

[DMurr]

I thought the pic of the day was hinting at Toad being revealed as a new character.. especially since the first time he showed Toad, if I recall, he said something about movesets in the pictures not being finalized.

I wouldn't be surprised to still see him as a 6th semi-clone character surprise after release.

 

[Deleted member]

You recall incorrectly. He said that Peach is still in development and her shown moves may get a few graphical touch-ups between then and final release (Using the term "refreshed").
It's been true so far; Toad looks somewhat cleaner in the pre-Rosalina pic than in the pic on Peach's profile.

 

[Deleted member]

Toad really deserved better this time around. Really sad.

As a Toad supporter, I definitely sympathize with the more passionate Toad fans here. While I'm not going to rage over this, I can understand why this was such a let down for Toad supporters as like you said, Toad really should have gotten in this game. Definitely among the Top 10 most deserving SSB4 candidates if you ask me.

I think this thread should be locked soon. Toad has already been disconfirmed enough to warrant it.

Meanwhile, I'm rebumping the Mario character thread. I have some things to say.

 

[Pox]

lol Ridley deserves a spot.

 

[Autumn ♫]

lol Ridley deserves a spot.

Umm, okay?

Wrong thread buddy.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Umm, okay?

Wrong thread buddy.

Ridley was too big for his own thread, apparently.

 

[Berserker.]

Ridley's character data requires too much disk space so....

He's probably not getting in. He's too big. Triple layering needed.

 

[Gene]

Ridley's character data requires too much disk space so....

He's probably not getting in. He's too big. Triple layering needed.

Oh he's coming. Right out of that hole.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Toad would be best suited as a "Mario Kart" character now.
Outside of Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and Yoshi, Toad is the only character to be in every MK to date.
The concept of a recurring spin-off Toad ambassador started in Super Mario Kart.
Toadettes debuted in Mario Kart Double Dash.
Toad is seen as a mascot of sorts by fans. (Cuz he is THE BED )

So, you should all be asking for this:

Since a pair of plain ol' mushroom people in a mobile go-kart is a pretty unique concept. And yes, you play as them IN the kart. And can even switch who's driving (whoever isn't is the one that uses items ala Double Dash.)

I'm only 75% kidding.

Even as one of the most passionate Toad supporters here, I really would consider Toad being included as the representative of the spinoff series a slight to the far more spinoff associated Waluigi.

One day I dream we can have both. Or I'll just play SSB Crusade since that day could be right now.

Probably better to do that, since neither are looking likely for a while.

 

[ClubbyBear]

Even as one of the most passionate Toad supporters here, I really would consider Toad being included as the representative of the spinoff series a slight to the far more spinoff associated Waluigi.

One day I dream we can have both. Or I'll just play SSB Crusade since that day could be right now.

Probably better to do that, since neither are looking likely for a while.

Crusade doesn't have the polished gameplay and HD look of Smash Bros
As good of a job Crusade does, nothing beats the officials games (except maybe Project M)

*sniff* We will see you one day Toad..

 

[Pox]

Ridley was too big for his own thread, apparently.

^this guy gets it! To be honest, I don't feel either way about Toad and Ridley got a mention in the poll.

 

[Gallowglass]

Off topic as heck, but with the new emphasis being on uniqueness, I'm really surprised Sakurai didn't try and give Toon Link a more unique moveset, whilst tweaking Pit and Bowser.

That's because T. Link was good in Brawl. He has been making adjustments on A. Link which I'm really hoping will be good.

I rather see Ridley as a boss (especially if Sakurai allows playable bosses like the thread I made).



Back to Toad....
I really think a speedy grappler would be rather interesting to play. Kind of like DK but faster and lighter. A lot of his specials could be based off of Mario Kart which will help him close the gap.

 

[Pacack]

Back to Toad....
I really think a speedy grappler would be rather interesting to play. Kind of like DK but faster and lighter. A lot of his specials could be based off of Mario Kart which will help him close the gap.

That's honestly what I was imagining too. But...yeah.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Hey Toad Brigade; just had a thought:

Since each addition of Smash is essentially based off the last gen(for the most part) and Rosalina's been picked because of Mario Galaxy...maybe Toad does have hope for SSB5, since the big Mario games of the Wii U(at least to this point) all have Blue Toad (and one other Toad, either Yellow or Captain) as a playable option; Super Mario 3D World, NSMBWii U, New Super Luigi Bros. U.

I mean obviously this possible theory trips up ever so slightly in Brawl when we didn't get Bowser Jr, but I thought it might be worth considering for future games, since in SSB5 we're likely to get something from 3D World. Why not Toad?