Toad parade - Oh boy it's Els--- I mean, Rosalina

[Arcadenik]

Still, I AM super hyped for 3D World regardless. I haven't been this excited about a Mario game in years. This may even be the game that convinces me to go get a Wii U. Was gonna be Smash 4, but this looks oh so tempting.

I am going to get this Wii U bundle...

Spoiler

...and then get Super Mario 3D World... I will then fill out surveys when I register them on my Club Nintendo account and commend them about these games and ask them to keep Toad (and Peach) playable in future main Mario games.

 

[NintendoKnight]

If we had a Toad character of some sort, I'd prefer...




THE MASTER HIMSELF

He's a Super Saiyan Toad for crying out loud!

And honestly, I'd play him.

 

[ChronoBound]

Since Sakurai did not reveal Mii for Wii Party U on October 25, 2013... it is safe to assume that Sakurai is not revealing newcomers for a long time... maybe we won't get to see any new newcomers till next year... so even if Sakurai does not reveal Toad for Super Mario 3D World on November 21, 2013, it does not mean anything either way.

Wii Party U's Japanese release date is later this week.

 

[Arcadenik]

Wii Party U's Japanese release date is later this week.

It comes out on Halloween in Japan... I do think it would be fitting if Mii is confirmed on Halloween because Mii could wear unlockable costumes just like in Mario Tennis Open. Imagine Mii wearing costumes of playable characters and Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon!

I still think Sakurai is not showing any new newcomers this year... maybe next year at E3 2014 to generate more hype.

 

[YoshiandToad]

It comes out on Halloween in Japan... I do think it would be fitting if Mii is confirmed on Halloween because Mii could wear unlockable costumes just like in Mario Tennis Open. Imagine Mii wearing costumes of playable characters and Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon!

I'm actually terrified that this is how Toad and a bunch of other potential newcomers that don't quite make the grade will become 'playable'; an unlockable Mii costume. Imagine the rage as we discover K. Rool, Ridley, Little Mac, Takamaru, Chrom, Palutena, Bowser Jr, Dixie and Toad are just unlockable outfits for the Mii.

But Doctor Mario is of course his own character still and taking up the much desired 5th Mario slot.

If this happens, I am seriously done with Smash.

 

[Arcadenik]

I agree with YoshiandToad, I would be very disappointed if Toad is a costume for Mii if Dr. Mario is a separate character who is the 5th Mario character. I think I would be very disillusioned to the core regarding Sakurai's thought process in relation to Smash.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Hope you had a good Halloween, Toad Brigade. Yesterday's update was certainly eye opening, but today's one seem's semi relevant to our Mushroom Retainer. The picture doesn't tell us much at all, but the last few lines are worthy of note:

Spoiler

Is this another straw to desperately grasp? A tiny teensy sliver of hope in the darkness? Maybe not, but I thought it was an interesting point to note. Nothing is set in stone yet and things may be different from these daily pictures in the final product.

So...does this work in Toad's favour?

I don't know, but between that last line and the comment regarding Peach's moveset I'm not quite yet ruling out the option of them slapping a moustache, a bow tie, waistcoat and palette swap onto Toad Counter.

On another note I find it interesting that Toad did better in Rate their chances regarding Want once he'd been 'deconfirmed'. Perhaps we, as Smashfans, don't know what we want until it's taken from us.

Also; still super excited about 3D World, and am really hoping we get a 3D World based stage.

 

[Arcadenik]

The Toad detractors always use this picture to silence the Toad supporters every time the Toad supporters try to argue that Sakurai said Peach's moveset is not finalized and that her moveset "may be refreshed" by the time SSB4 comes out. The Toad detractors claim that this picture is proof positive that Toad is 110% deconfirmed even though some Toad supporters try to argue that it could easily be an beta element that might not make it into the final product.

Today, Sakurai reminds us that "all images are still in development".... that all "past pics may be different from the finished product."

I still believe that Sakurai is referring to the only Toad picture on the SSB4 website... Peach could get a new special move... Peach could keep her special move but Toad is replaced with Toadsworth... Why would Sakurai give the Toad supporters more false hope if he was never going to add Toad in the first place?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

While I understand you pointing this out, I'm just really wondering if this is truly will be so with some decent chance.
I don't believe he'd make a drastic change (even if it might be cosmetic) and refer it as one of the possible "changes" from the beta to final product- that'd be really glaring for those who got used to what Peach has to offer. And perhaps he might just refer to polishing things or just switching around some, but to indicate that he'd mess with Toad-fans here in advance seems bit far-fetched to me. I think I still remember how he doesn't see Toad as a fighter (back in Melee Dojo's Peach Profile-page I guess??)

Perhaps he might have truly put that pic to silence down the Toad-supporters, or just wanted to show he's back like before. In anycase at the moment we have to yet see if he's truly talking about. I'm still kinda in the impression that Sakurai might not, or already hasn't added him as a fighter due already showing us the pic of him as Peach's B-move. Who knows though.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think I still remember how he doesn't see Toad as a fighter (back in Melee Dojo's Peach Profile-page I guess??)

This game is SSB4, not Melee... this is 2013, not 2001. What has Toad done up to that point in 2001 or even 2006 to justify his inclusion in Smash? What has Toad done up to this point in 2013 to justify his inclusion in Smash?

If Sakurai really wanted to silence the Toad supporters for good, he should not have said anything about refreshing Peach's moveset or reminding us that these pics are still in development and they might be different in the final product. Sakurai really needs to stop giving Toad supporters some hope, especially false hope if Toad is still not playable in Smash, with these vague, ambiguous Miiverse comments.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

This game is SSB4, not Melee... this is 2013, not 2001. What has Toad done up to that point in 2001 or even 2006 to justify his inclusion in Smash? What has Toad done up to this point in 2013 to justify his inclusion in Smash?

If Sakurai really wanted to silence the Toad supporters for good, he should not have said anything about refreshing Peach's moveset or reminding us that these pics are still in development and they might be different in the final product. Sakurai really needs to stop giving Toad supporters some hope, especially false hope if Toad is still not playable in Smash, with these vague, ambiguous Miiverse comments.

Basically: which is why I keep on not holding my breath. I think I felt enough that he was deconfirmed due being Peach's B-move already all shown back then, despite how much he has kinda grown active (or his other pals). Still think Sakurai's only referring to polishing the poses or other minor cosmetic stuff instead of rather drastic changes for characters that might indicate new additions pre-maturely.
Not to mean he is but currently I'm not wanting to get desperately hopeful on seeing Toad, especially after how secretive this game has got.

One thing that might give us some hope though is that the potential Toad-reveal could happen during Thursday 21st November. Character reveals or similar tend to have been show so far (before Sonic) during end of the weekdays so perhaps this might heighten the chances for a reveal.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe he sees Toad doesn't provide enough potential to be in the game. The only way I see Toad happening is if has a massive popular fanbase wanting him in.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oh, I am not expecting Toad to be confirmed as a newcomer on November 21 because Sakurai haven't shown us any new newcomers since E3 2013.... he didn't show us a Pokemon character for Pokemon X & Y, he didn't show us Mii for Wii Party U, and he didn't show us Pac-Man for Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures. Why didn't Sakurai save Peach for November 21 if there's no playable Toad?

I feel like Sakurai is playing mind games with Toad supporters...

 

[YoshiandToad]

Maybe he sees Toad doesn't provide enough potential to be in the game. The only way I see Toad happening is if has a massive popular fanbase wanting him in.

Toad's Japanese fanbase is actually quite interesting in this manner: They love Toad. To bits. But because of his role as Peach's B move they don't think he'll ever be included so he doesn't get many votes within Smash polls. I think it was mentioned in Shortie's poll, I'll see if I can dig up that tidbit later.

Frankly, I'd like to be as calm and reasonable about this as the Japanese fans, but with an ever diminishing pool of viable newcomers coupled with very few true Nintendo All Stars left(we can probably name them on our hands now) and Toad's increased activity as a playable character since Brawl, this would be as good a chance as any other to include him.

Also yes, maybe the Ridley fans feel this way as well. Sometimes it does feel like we're being screwed around with. I was ready to give up when we saw that one picture, then the words kept festering at the back of my mind. Dammit Sakurai, you should of just kept quiet about move changes for Peach.

While I understand you pointing this out, I'm just really wondering if this is truly will be so with some decent chance.

If I'm honest one of the reason's I brought this up is because since Eddybearr vanished off the face of this thread it's been awfully quiet around here.
Your attitude towards that pic is by far the most reasonable response however, and whilst I am trying to not whip myself into a frenzy over stupid comments like that(I still remember people looking at the clouds from Brawl for secret character info) I'm wondering why Toad, despite his qualifications has yet to be considered for a Smash game after four installments.

Had Peach, Bowser and Wario not already been added I'd probably be far more reasonable(all of them are more important than the mushroom man) but now we're down to Bowser Jr, Waluigi, Geno and Paper Mario as the only true Mario series rivals...

 

[Arcadenik]

I bought the Wii U bundle today! I haven't opened it yet. It wouldn't feel complete without Super Mario 3D World. Next month, I'm gonna fill out those surveys when I register my Wii U and games at Club Nintendo... and I'm gonna use them to ask Nintendo to keep including Toad as a playable character in future main Mario games.

 

[Deleted member]

My God, Arcadenik, stop being ****ing delusional.

Ironically, I was coming into this thread to bring up the point about today's pic as means to show your previous ramblings being outright shot down by Sakurai since he proved my point, only to see that you've managed to take Sakurai's words and make even more delusional ramblings.

The generic red spot/blue vest Toad's not being replaced by Toadsworth as a meat shield just so it can be playable after it's already been shown to be the meat shield. Didn't happen in Brawl, not gonna happen now.
Stick to Blue Toad being the token "Toad" fighter. Then you won't seem so delusional.

 

[Starcutter]

so why does this shut down the toad argument? I didn't see any explanation, and now I'm curious.

I'm neutral on this argument, btw.

 

[Pacack]

My God, Arcadenik, stop being ****ing delusional.

Ironically, I was coming into this thread to bring up the point about today's pic as means to show your previous ramblings being outright shot down by Sakurai since he proved my point, only to see that you've managed to take Sakurai's words and make even more delusional ramblings.

The generic red spot/blue vest Toad's not being replaced by Toadsworth as a meat shield just so it can be playable after it's already been shown to be the meat shield. Didn't happen in Brawl, not gonna happen now.
Stick to Blue Toad being the token "Toad" fighter. Then you won't seem so delusional.

To be fair, even though I find the blue Toad more likely, we have seen proof that the animations at least for specials and whatnot can be changed even after they're shown, as Pit's B neutral move was. The moves are likely all in a state of change since they were directly ported from brawl.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Toad being replaced with Toadsworth as a shield is pretty much a fan suggestion the way I see it. I wonder if Sakurai will listen.

 

[ChronoBound]

I am still crossing my fingers that we may get a character unveil three weeks from now, however, my anticipation for such has dampened considering that we got nothing with Pokemon X/Y (though that seems to have been the Pokemon Company's doing) and Wii Party U.

It would really be something though if Toad did end up being the first newcomer to be unveiled since E3.

However, I think that if Toad does end up being confirmed to tie in with Super Mario 3D World, it may be through a Nintendo Direct that Nintendo has prior to the holiday rush.

 

[Deleted member]

so why does this shut down the toad argument? I didn't see any explanation, and now I'm curious.

I'm neutral on this argument, btw.

Previous discussion between me and Arcadenik-

Arcadenik: "Sakurai says Peach's moves may be refreshed! That means the Toad Shield move will be replaced so Toad gets added later as a character!"

Me: "No, he's saying Peach is still in development and that her moves are not 100% reflective of the final product aesthetic-wise. To 'refresh' something is to visually update it to make it fresher."

Arcadenik: "So that means instead of using the generic Toad, Sakurai can just replace him with Toadsworth or Blue Toad so generic Toad becomes playable later! "

Me: "That's not refreshing it; that's changing it."

Now, we have Sakurai saying that he gave Pit a "makeover" on his Palutena's Arrow move to make it appear "sharper". And that since the game is in development, this picture and previous ones are not entirely reflective of the final product.
Which is pretty much what I was trying to get through to Arcadenik.
But no, she's using that to mean "Generic Toad will be replaced by Toadsworth so generic Toad is playable! "

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair, even though I find the blue Toad more likely, we have seen proof that the animations at least for specials and whatnot can be changed even after they're shown, as Pit's B neutral move was. The moves are likely all in a state of change since they were directly ported from brawl.

Pit getting a "makeover" to have the move appear "sharper" is not comparable to "replace generic Toad with Toadsworth so generic Toad becomes playable".

 

[Starcutter]

Pit getting a "makeover" to have the move appear "sharper" is not comparable to "replace generic Toad with Toadsworth so generic Toad becomes playable".

umm, I've read all your arguments, but I really think changing colors on a toad could relate to changing pit's stance a bit to make his move sharper. I mean, really. changing a color isn't that taxing. making toad into toadsworth is, though.

 

[Starcutter]

double double post, dang nabbit.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sakurai can make Peach's Toad appear "elderly".

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Previous discussion between me and Arcadenik-

Arcadenik: "Sakurai says Peach's moves may be refreshed! That means the Toad Shield move will be replaced so Toad gets added later as a character!"

Me: "No, he's saying Peach is still in development and that her moves are not 100% reflective of the final product aesthetic-wise. To 'refresh' something is to visually update it to make it fresher."

Arcadenik: "So that means instead of using the generic Toad, Sakurai can just replace him with Toadsworth or Blue Toad so generic Toad becomes playable later! "

Me: "That's not refreshing it; that's changing it."

Now, we have Sakurai saying that he gave Pit a "makeover" on his Palutena's Arrow move to make it appear "sharper". And that since the game is in development, this picture and previous ones are not entirely reflective of the final product.
Which is pretty much what I was trying to get through to Arcadenik.
But no, she's using that to mean "Generic Toad will be replaced by Toadsworth so generic Toad is playable! "

I've been saying this for a while now too, which is why I'm not too hopeful to Toad showing up SSB4, especially if considering not all major releases might get some update commemorating them (and since 3D World seems rather important one, Sakurai might troll us again with something pointless or at least show a stage or something)

But indeed, the thing that Sakurai said goes only to polishment and minor cosmetic additions. It doesn't mean a damn to any potential drastic changes in the moveset, really.

 

[loganhogan]

The Blue Toad seems to be main Toad now him, so even if they stick with Toad on Peach he can still be playable.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Pit getting a "makeover" to have the move appear "sharper" is not comparable to "replace generic Toad with Toadsworth so generic Toad becomes playable".

I was going to play devil's advocate here and mention that a colour change actually is an aesthetic thing and a fairly easy thing at that to change; most likely easier than affecting the polygons to give an arrow a sharper appearence anyway, but seems legendofrob1 beat me to it.
You're right about it being more difficult for Toadsworth, however and I'll concede as such the model alteration is probably not worth the time or effort. Changing the red spots to blue however isn't hard at all.

Maybe we'll get ol' Buckenberry instead as a playable. I'd be okay with that, I just prefer the more recognised Toad. Which doesn't really matter because if we did get Blue Toad, we'd likely get "Generic Toad" as a colour palette anyway.

Toad being replaced with Toadsworth as a shield is pretty much a fan suggestion the way I see it. I wonder Sakurai will listen.

As for Toadsworth, yeah; it's most likely not happening, which is a crying shame. Toadsworth just fits better as the B move since he is Peach's Guard-ian. Hoho!

Spoiler

BOOOOOOO! GET OFF THE STAGE!

 

[Starcutter]

Spoiler

BOOOOOOO! GET OFF THE STAGE!

[collapse=I could only think of this]

[/collapse]

 

[Deleted member]

I'm seeing a couple people that just say "making red dots blue is changing aesthetics" without looking at the context of "refreshing".
Changing something to look better isn't the same as changing something to accommodate something else. (i.e. changing the Toad meat shield's colors so the generic Toad becomes playable).

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'm seeing a couple people that just say "making red dots blue is changing aesthetics" without looking at the context of "refreshing".
Changing something to look better isn't the same as changing something to accommodate something else. (i.e. changing the Toad meat shield's colors so the generic Toad becomes playable).

Indeed it's not the same thing. It's not exactly a huge leap either though and shows that moves are aesthically getting alterations at this point. I'm not saying this proves Toad's in, far from it, but Toad shield could quite easily be altered yet, and if they're pushing Blue Toad forward as the main Toad, even if there's no playable Toad, would they not want to update that to reflect the current situation?

I'm afraid I don't see how today's post was going to disprove Toad's newcomer status any more than Peach's counter though. Could you explain?

 

[Starcutter]

I'm seeing a couple people that just say "making red dots blue is changing aesthetics" without looking at the context of "refreshing".
Changing something to look better isn't the same as changing something to accommodate something else. (i.e. changing the Toad meat shield's colors so the generic Toad becomes playable).

ah, I see. that was your point, I understand everything now.


inb4 toad actually does get confirmed

 

[Arcadenik]

Assuming that Toad is playable in Smash... I don't think it really matters what is the default color of the playable Toad... that it does not matter whether the playable Toad's default colors are the same colors as Peach's Toad shield or not.

Peach's Toad colors are red spots and blue vest.

If playable Toad's default colors are red spots and blue vest (THE Toad), his palette swaps would be...
red spots and red vest (Red Toad)
blue spots and blue vest (Blue Toad)
yellow spots and yellow vest (Yellow Toad)
green spots and green vest (Green Toad)
purple spots and purple vest (Purple Toad)

If playable Toad's default colors are blue spots and blue vest (Blue Toad), his palette swaps would be...
red spots and red vest (Red Toad)
red spots and blue vest (THE Toad)
yellow spots and yellow vest (Yellow Toad)
green spots and green vest (Green Toad)
purple spots and purple vest (Purple Toad)

One of playable Toad's palette swaps is bound to have the same colors as Peach's Toad either way... unless it is suggested that the palette swap with red spots and blue vest cannot be used as a palette swap for the playable Toad.

It seems to me that Golden is saying that THE Toad is not going to be the default color of the playable Toad... that the Blue Toad would be the default color of the playable Toad... while I am saying that THE Toad could still be the default color of the playable Toad.

 

[fogbadge]

if toad gets in, does it really matter what his colour schem is

 

[YoshiandToad]

It seems to me that Golden is saying that THE Toad is not going to be the default color of the playable Toad... that the Blue Toad would be the default color of the playable Toad... while I am saying that THE Toad could still be the default color of the playable Toad.

That's what the disagreements about? Huh...

I don't think anyone would care if it WAS Blue Toad, and yes; 'The Toad' would most likely be a palette swap of Blue Toad, who will be called Toad anyway.

 

[Arcadenik]

That's what the disagreements about? Huh...

I don't think anyone would care if it WAS Blue Toad, and yes; 'The Toad' would most likely be a palette swap of Blue Toad, who will be called Toad anyway.

Yeah... but I personally feel that the playable Toad's default colors should be red spots and blue vest because that's his iconic look... just like how the playable Yoshi's default color is green because that's his iconic look.

Super Mario 3D World apparently have both Red Toad (red spots, red vest) and Blue Toad (blue spots, blue vest) as playable characters. It would make sense, in my opinion, if the playable Toad is a mix of both Red Toad and Blue Toad (red spots, blue vest) in Smash.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Yeah... but I personally feel that the playable Toad's default colors should be red spots and blue vest because that's his iconic look... just like how the playable Yoshi's default color is green because that's his iconic look.

Super Mario 3D World apparently have both Red Toad (red spots, red vest) and Blue Toad (blue spots, blue vest) as playable characters. It would make sense, in my opinion, if the playable Toad is a mix of both Red Toad and Blue Toad (red spots, blue vest) in Smash.

I actually think you'd have a better chance wanting the Toad Brigade Captain to be playable.

That way whatever generic Toad Peach uses doesn't change the aesthetic of the Brigade Captain. He IS in 3D World too, just so you know. And pretty much everyone and their mother has played at least ONE of the Galaxy games, so they'll recognize him from there too.

Other than that, it seems you're really grasping at straws here to find a way for Toad to be playable. Especially if you're using Sakurai's comment today to reinforce your point. Sakurai has been saying this whole time that things are not yet finished for the game, and anything can change. However, as far as I understand it, the entire roster was finalized a while ago.

So what I'm saying is, if Sakurai already knew that Toad will be a playable character, why did he intentionally add a picture of Peach using Toad as a move? If anything, this tells me that Toad will be nothing more than a move, because he was never planned to be a character.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Pacack]

I actually think you'd have a better chance wanting the Toad Brigade Captain to be playable.

That way whatever generic Toad Peach uses doesn't change the aesthetic of the Brigade Captain. He IS in 3D World too, just so you know. And pretty much everyone and their mother has played at least ONE of the Galaxy games, so they'll recognize him from there too.

Other than that, it seems you're really grasping at straws here to find a way for Toad to be playable. Especially if you're using Sakurai's comment today to reinforce your point. Sakurai has been saying this whole time that things are not yet finished for the game, and anything can change. However, as far as I understand it, the entire roster was finalized a while ago.

So what I'm saying is, if Sakurai already knew that Toad will be a playable character, why did he intentionally add a picture of Peach using Toad as a move? If anything, this tells me that Toad will be nothing more than a move, because he was never planned to be a character.

Just some food for thought.

Although I agree with you (and personally find the blue Toad to be far more likely), he did also intentionally show pit's neutral b move before changing it.

 

[Deleted member]

Although I agree with you (and personally find the blue Toad to be far more likely), he did also intentionally show pit's neutral b move before changing it.

How was it changed, exactly aside from a few miniscule changes in his stance as he charges it?
It's still the same exact move.

 

[Pacack]

How was it changed, exactly aside from a few miniscule changes in his stance as he charges it?
It's still the same exact move.

This is very true. (Note: I am attempting to not be disrespectful, as I tend to get a bit rude when I'm not trying.)

However, as the work taken to change an animation is more work than simply changing the colors of Toad, I could potentially see the color being changed. Although I don't think it has more than a 1% chance of happening.

I would like to say that I do agree with you when you say that trying to defend Toad with Sakurai's quotes. In the end, I personally see them as fairly irrelevant disclaimers, but acknowledge that it is still possible that the neutral b will change.

(Did I do well with being open-minded?)