Toad Discussion

[Legolastom]

Go to smashbros.com to find a list of confirmed chars.

Wow thanks i never heard of that site before... *go's to smash bros.com* OMG MARIO!!!

Seriously what urged you to post that?

 

[Biggie Smalls]

Wow thanks i never heard of that site before... *go's to smash bros.com* OMG MARIO!!!

Seriously what urged you to post that?

Do you mind if I ask you, what exactly is the time interval on updates? It's been two days with that S****y franklin badge has shown up.

 

[Bassoonist]

Do you mind if I ask you, what exactly is the time interval on updates? It's been two days with that S****y franklin badge has shown up.

He updates every week day. The weekend's over so he updates tonight.

 

[Biggie Smalls]

He updates every week day. The weekend's over so he updates tonight.

Ah, thank you. I thought he said every day.

 

[Legolastom]

Yhea you got another 6 hours till the update though... why not read some sprite comics while you wait... -.-

Er... Toad... yhea...

 

[Dynamism]

What's the news on Toad's DownB?
I missed any lists on that...

 

[Masque]

What's the news on Toad's DownB?
I missed any lists on that...

Mine was an edited / tweaked version of Peach's DownB. My moveset is a few pages back. The move in question is titled "Pluck" in my set.

 

[Gindor]

Wow thanks i never heard of that site before... *go's to smash bros.com* OMG MARIO!!!

Seriously what urged you to post that?

people who don't know.

 

[Gindor]

sorry for x2 post-but tis is important!
poke trainer was just confirmed for brawl! he uses his pokemon as shields and weapons! He = cheap!
This may show a point against us, peach also hides behind her servsnts as shields!

Oh woe is me...

 

[Fawriel]

Characters that a lot of people think would be a stupid addition: CONFIRMED!

Sakurai is a ****ing GENIUS who's doing EVERYTHING to make the game original and fun: CONFIRMED!

Toad: Confirmed, d00d.

 

[Legolastom]

This character just makes me wonder what other characters there are... because he wouldn't show the most original this early on... hmmm...

 

[Vali]

Actually, We don't know if Peach is even going to be in Brawl.

What, you mean other than her appearing in that Subspace Emissary video? Deconfirmed for sure, yeah?

 

[Sir Jigsbee]

Characters that a lot of people think would be a stupid addition: CONFIRMED!

Sakurai is a ****ing GENIUS who's doing EVERYTHING to make the game original and fun: CONFIRMED!

Toad: Confirmed, d00d.

I agree with Fawriel.

Additionally, Toad can't be an AT because, so far, the ATs are reletavily not well known (Dr. Wright; Samurai Goro), whereas Toad is one of the characters of the famed 'Big 8.' If he's not an AT, he must be a Playable Character. I look forward to it.

 

[Gindor]

After seeing poke trainers oddity, almost every other character that fans want is pretty normal and not out of the ordinary. Sakurai wants oddities along with populars. He has shuffled all characters chances!

Toad for brawl!

 

[Masque]

Seeing PT today really opens up the possibilities for many characters. I agree about the ATs, though. The only ones announced are ones that are probably recognizable by fans of the series but maybe not by gamers more devoted to other series. Toad is instantly recognizable by anyone familiar with Nintendo at all, so that is a boost in Toad's favor.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

what would everyone do if tomarrow you open up the site and see "Warning New challenger approachs"
only to scroll down and see......TOADSWORTH!!!!

i would probably die of laughter but in all seriousness, im hoping that they confirm a returning character next. Like mabye captain falcon. Im hoping you guys can guess why......

 

[Fawriel]

Hey, guys.

I'm really sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but I have to for the sake of... honest journalism or debatism or whatever it is that I do.

You know the stickers, right? This game's trophies.
They come in various sizes, which apparently have something to do with their importance. The Sheriff is unimportant, Wario's car is part of his character and can be considered important, Ike is a playable character even...

Here, you can see Toad.
He is barely bigger than the elephant type thing from the Kirby games. He's not nearly as big as Ike.

Now, this doesn't automatically say he's not playable, no. He's still medium-sized after all, and maybe the original size of the character in comparison to others weighs in, so Toad wouldn't even be the same size as Ike IF he was playable.

And there's always this image, where Wario in his Strikers Charged outfit is about the size of Toad here.
What troubles me about that is... that Toad is depicted in such a generic way. This image of Toad doesn't seem special to any of the games. It's just... Toad.

I'm really sorry to say this, because the Toad supporters are some of my favourite group of people, but in my eyes, Toad's chances have shrunk dramatically...

 

[Vali]

Sorry I have to disagree here, since Samurai Goroh is only just smaller than Ike and roughly the same size as DK really. That and a Pianta is the same size if not bigger than Wario. You must also consider the possibility of multiple stickers for the playable characters as it was in Melee. It could very well be the case that these multiple character stickers come in varying sizes and where one Kirby sticker seems to be massive it could turn out that there is a diffferent one in line of the size of Toad and Wario in his Strikers outfit and likewise there could easily be 2+ other Toad and Wario stickers, at least one of which is to the same size as Ike, DK and Kirby.

Toad's chances remain unaffected to be honest.

 

[Fawriel]

Huh.

Oh well, since nobody seems to take my theory seriously, I guess it's just me analyzing too much.
Fine by me.

I still stand by my claim that Balloon Fighter is deconfirmed, though!

 

[h1roshi]

the stickers update really makes you think though. either they are trying to give us a teaser and in a way reveal that toad might be in. they showed toads picture twice among others. also, it could mean that toad couldnt have a bigger part in the game so they had to just stick him in as a sticker. man, it really could go either way...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Masque]

Hey, guys.

I'm really sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but I have to for the sake of... honest journalism or debatism or whatever it is that I do.

You know the stickers, right? This game's trophies.
They come in various sizes, which apparently have something to do with their importance. The Sheriff is unimportant, Wario's car is part of his character and can be considered important, Ike is a playable character even...

Here, you can see Toad.
He is barely bigger than the elephant type thing from the Kirby games. He's not nearly as big as Ike.

Now, this doesn't automatically say he's not playable, no. He's still medium-sized after all, and maybe the original size of the character in comparison to others weighs in, so Toad wouldn't even be the same size as Ike IF he was playable.

And there's always this image, where Wario in his Strikers Charged outfit is about the size of Toad here.
What troubles me about that is... that Toad is depicted in such a generic way. This image of Toad doesn't seem special to any of the games. It's just... Toad.

I'm really sorry to say this, because the Toad supporters are some of my favourite group of people, but in my eyes, Toad's chances have shrunk dramatically...

The same thoughts went through my mind, too. Toad being the same size as Wario offered some consolation. Likewise, Goro's bigger than both of them! It's hard to say just yet. The following post perfectly summarizes my counterargument.

(P.S. - I'm glad you like us; we like you, too! )

Sorry I have to disagree here, since Samurai Goroh is only just smaller than Ike and roughly the same size as DK really. That and a Pianta is the same size if not bigger than Wario. You must also consider the possibility of multiple stickers for the playable characters as it was in Melee. It could very well be the case that these multiple character stickers come in varying sizes and where one Kirby sticker seems to be massive it could turn out that there is a diffferent one in line of the size of Toad and Wario in his Strikers outfit and likewise there could easily be 2+ other Toad and Wario stickers, at least one of which is to the same size as Ike, DK and Kirby.

Toad's chances remain unaffected to be honest.

Agreed. The only thing that makes me wonder is that they showed a picture of Toad at all. Would Sakurai purposefully post a preemptive picture of Toad before officially announcing him on the playable roster? It's possible. He certainly would have had us fooled!

Huh.

Oh well, since nobody seems to take my theory seriously, I guess it's just me analyzing too much.
Fine by me.

I still stand by my claim that Balloon Fighter is deconfirmed, though!

I do take it seriously, fear not. I just think it's too early to tell for sure. The only thing that will prove to me that Toad is not a PC is if he is announced as an AT. Let's just hope that the latter never comes to be!

Also, I would be happy with BF deconfirmed. I would much rather see Skapon and Little Mac as far as the retro characters go. I'd prefer Mike Jones to BF, even.

the stickers update really makes you think though. either they are trying to give us a teaser and in a way reveal that toad might be in. they showed toads picture twice among others. also, it could mean that toad couldnt have a bigger part in the game so they had to just stick him in as a sticker. man, it really could go either way...peace

-hiroshi

Therein lies the conflict between the two possibilities. Sakurai must have a penchant for ambiguity. It can be nice when employed properly, but this is a time in which ambiguity drives me up a wall. I just want more information!

 

[thebasman]

I don't think that they would have shown Toad on a sticker if he was playable, but unannounced. Sakurai has shown us a pattern of holding out on showing anything about a character until they make an appearance on the site, and then showing them in assorted places (for example, Ike is shown in the stickers now that he's been confirmed, or whatever). He wouldn't have "ruined" Toad in this fashion unless he wasn't playable.

Which sucks, because I really want Toad to be in Brawl.

 

[axemangx]

I have yet to see a Toad moveset, so I'll so no for Toad.


And once again, I say this.

Toad is not a fighter. Peroid. Geno seems like he'd be a better fighter than Toad, and he'd probally be the last Mario character for Brawl.


Toad gets my no.

 

[axemangx]

I agree with Fawriel.

Additionally, Toad can't be an AT because, so far, the ATs are reletavily not well known (Dr. Wright; Samurai Goro), whereas Toad is one of the characters of the famed 'Big 8.' If he's not an AT, he must be a Playable Character. I look forward to it.

Excuse me? Whens the last time Toad had any fighting roles in Mario games? Not many, in fact, one or two. Toad wasnt playable in MARIO PARTY. MARIO PARTY. Where Minor MONSTERS are playable characters.. and besides, he always stands behind Mario and always gives him tips.



Toad for AT.

 

[thebasman]

I have yet to see a Toad moveset, so I'll so no for Toad.


And once again, I say this.

Toad is not a fighter. Peroid. Geno seems like he'd be a better fighter than Toad, and he'd probally be the last Mario character for Brawl.


Toad gets my no.

I'm pretty sure that if you go back in this thread, you'll run into a whole bunch of Toad movesets, if you would like to see some.

 

[youngcaptainlinkondorf]

toad'll probably be in the next one.

 

[axemangx]

Did you listen to my last post AT ALL?

 

[_the_sandman_]

Toad would have a terrible moveset. There really isn't much he can do when it comes down to fighting. He doesn't have any references to games to help him make a moveset with, except Super Mario 2. But even then Peach already took some moves from that game.

Anywho, Toad's roll in the games are very small these days. In fact they're so plentiful that there really isn't a single "Toad" anymore. He's just a generic character now.

There really isn't much left for Toad. Maybe as an Assist but very unlikely as a playable character.

 

[SpitFire15]

Wow thank you for that long and convincing post that has totally swayed me away from the Toad argument... thank you for making me see the right choice!

Oh no, thank you for showing me all the hardcore evidence of Toad being a PC in Brawl. Really, I totally see the light now. Yep, he's practically confirmed.


Toad for BrawlPeach's B move!

 

[Circus]

Toad would have a terrible moveset.

You know this because you have a crystal ball that allows you to see into a dimension where Toad has a Smash moveset? I don't see any other way you'd be able to know this for a fact. . . .

There really isn't much he can do when it comes down to fighting. He doesn't have any references to games to help him make a moveset with, except Super Mario 2. But even then Peach already took some moves from that game.

You know who else "doesn't have any references to games to help him make a moveset"? Captain Falcon. I'm surprised the "moveset" issue even gets brought up anymore. Captain Falcon automatically cancels out that argument—for all characters.

Anywho, Toad's roll in the games are very small these days. In fact they're so plentiful that there really isn't a single "Toad" anymore. He's just a generic character now.

Admittedly, Toadsworth has kind of been filling roles that Toad would normally get in the more recent games. But I believe that Toad's general history with the Mario series is important. Though he seems to have been demoted a bit, I'd say he's still quite relevant to the cast of the series.

There really isn't much left for Toad. Maybe as an Assist but very unlikely as a playable character.

There's no real evidence to support this claim. I mean, sure, I can see how he'd pass as an AT, but he makes so much more sense as a PC in my eyes. I guess it comes down to how you view Toad. If you lump him in with all the wannabes, like Waluigi and Daisy, and the generics, like Koopas and Goombas, then I can see where you'd pass on him. But I see him being in the same category as Peach, Yoshi, Bowser. . . basically all the people who aren't quite as important as Mario himself.

 

[Fawriel]

I love how all these people rave about "NO MOVESET" and "CRAP MOVESET" when this thread has spawned some of the coolest movesets I've seen. Pitiful.

I mean, hell, weren't these the same guys we showed the movesets to last time or something?
*mutters something*

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2551973&highlight=deke#post2551973

Tons of movesets here, including mine.

People need to learn that their lack of fantasy is not an argument.

 

[_the_sandman_]

I love how all these people rave about "NO MOVESET" and "CRAP MOVESET" when this thread has spawned some of the coolest movesets I've seen. Pitiful.

I mean, hell, weren't these the same guys we showed the movesets to last time or something?
*mutters something*

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2551973&highlight=deke#post2551973

Tons of movesets here, including mine.

People need to learn that their lack of fantasy is not an argument.

Well I looked over the moveset... and it wasn't too bad, I can see they were trying something new with him without overpowering him.

But... how can Toad compare to someone as unique as Pit, Wario, or Trainer? Toad has a lot of characters to face off against, and I don't think he really has what it takes to be that "unique" of a character. Every character so far in Brawl has been unique, so exactly what would Toad have that no other characters would have?

Not to mention King Dedede, Isaac, Ridley, Ray 01, Krystal, Sonic, and several other options. So what would Toad bring into the game that these characters couldn't? You can't just look at Toad and leave it like that, you have to compare him to everyone else as well.

Yes... I already know Fox and C. Falcon didn't have much to work with for a moveset. But their attitudes and game styles have probably helped out when they were making the characters. Who else would scream out their attacks while flying at someone at full speed? And where else did the laser and reflector come from?

Anywho, compare Toad to everyone else currently in Brawl, he really can't compare.

 

[Fawriel]

Well, Sakurai is aiming to make characters unique and give them own styles that tie in with their background, yeah...

Do note how I described his style. Completely and utterly defensive. They tried to give that style to Zelda, but failed, in my opinion. They failed hard.
Toad is a cowardish guardian. A defensive style is perfect for him. And no other character I know of really has a defensive style. Roy and Marth have counters and long range, but Marth still moves in fast with wavedashing or a dash attack and starts a combo, Roy moves in with shuffled aerials... Zelda is supposed to be defensive, as I said, but what they meant by that must've been that she simply can't be used offensively. But they completely ****ed that up. So Zelda's only approach is shuffled fairs and bairs, and again, she HAS to approach to win anything.

Someone suggested a Toad moveset consisting completely of counters, which makes him an "annoyer". I, for one, have never seen an annoyer in a Smash game... and I couldn't think of a character who'd be more well-suited for that position.

If they could pull off a defensive annoyer moveset that actually works, that would make Toad quite unique, in my opinion.

 

[axemangx]

Wheeee, moveset contest!

Spoiler

How much money's in it for me?

Alright, so my Toad shall have lower than average strength, medium movement speed, low weight and so on. Sucks? Nah, not really.
His strength lies in being defensive. He has supreme rolling skills ( quick and with many invulnerability frames ), a good projectile ( tuuuurnips ), fast attacks, a very good recovery, and all attacks involving his huge toady head make that thing invulnerable. Which ain't bad considering it takes up most of his mass.
Okay, I'm kinda imagining the Toad in Onifrio's signature. He's just so cute!

And to top it off, his shield is like Yoshi's, hiding under his head. It's jump-cancelable, though.

As for his moves, Toad will sport sport game moves... but only some and only from Strikers Charged, because that's simply the coolest one.
And of course, he'll be comically overpowered. Woo!

A, A: Left hook, right hook ( with a grim face! )

^ tilt: Hide'n'Hit - Crouches down, hiding under his mushroom head, then shoots himself up to juggle enemies above him.
> tilt: Roundhouse - Chuck Norris! Actually, this one's pretty weak.
V tilt: Headbutt - A brick-shattering(?) headbutt downwards that works as a meteor; enemies on the ground pop up, enemies in the air... get meteor'd!

^ Smash: Beadhutt - Same starting animation as the Headbutt, but then he jumps and flips to land on his head, feet kicking up, turns once, then flops back down. All the three first phases do damage of some sort ( jump, flip-kick, turn ), but only the flip-kick does anything significant. The others are just there in case the main attack whiffs.
> Smash: Strike! - Toad's most reliable finisher ( the only one that doesn't require edge-guarding ). Jump, matrix-y slow-mo hold, KICK! The opponent flies a pretty decent distance on FIRE!
V Smash: Breakdown - Much like Mario's dsmash, but with damage dealt at both sides: By the feet and the head. The head hitboxes are stronger than Mario's version, the feet are weaker. It also comes out behind him and very quickly, which makes this a good defense against backstabbers.

Nair: Toadhammer! - Toad copies Pikachu, but can't quite curl up into a ball, which makes him look kinda like a funky sort of hammer someone threw away. About the same strength, maybe a tad weaker. Head does damage.
Uair: Intercept! - That type of kick football players sometimes do to hit balls above them. Depending on where it hits, it can send diagonally up, horizontally or even semi-spike in the direction behind Toad.
Fair: Kick-in-Air - A kick forward, pretty okay strength.
Bair: My Hero's Edgeguard ( okay, getting unrealistic with the names ) - Like Mario's, less strength.
Dair: Drillkick - ^_^

B: Toad! - Toad copies himself! He sprays spores in front of him that can hold an attacker dead in their tracks and deals a bit of damage, too. Has some start-up and cool-down time, but the hitbox stays out about as long as the cool-down lasts, so it's not completely useless.

^B: Lucky Mushroom - This one's fun. Wonder how Toad stayed alive for so long? He's one lucky mushroom...bastard.
Used on the ground, Toad will look scared and cover his face for a while. Anyone who approaches on the ground as he covers his face will miraculously slip and tumble ( see "Banana Peel" )! It also causes Toad to immediately stop hiding and start kicking.
Used in the air, Toad will once again feel scared and think he's done for. But fret not, little mushroom! A sudden powerful gust of wind comes up and carries Toad aloft!
An enemy struck by the wind will have trouble getting close ( no damage, though ), but best of all, Toad really flies up a great distance ( yay for being featherweight! ) and he does NOT lose control over his moves! However, he can only use it once until he lands safely on the ground again, even if he's hit after using it. Which should be no problem, considering he can still use aerials and his airdodge to make it back.

>B: Deke(?) - It's a counter. Yes, almost ALL his b moves are counters of some sort. Told you he's defensive. This one is like Marth's and Roy's, but much more subtle as he only gets into a defensive stance without flashing, and there's hardly any start-up and cool-down. However, his attack, should he be hit, does not come out instantly or multiply damage. Instead, he jumps over his enemy and tries to kick them in the backhead for decent damage and horizontal knockback.
The attack can be avoided, but if it isn't seen coming, it can be quite useful.

VB: Tuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurnips - Since Peach might well get a new moveset to reflect her new "powers", this one goes to Toad. His are weaker, though. No stitchfaces! However, he plucks them more quickly, as he did in SMB2.
There's also a small chance of plucking a mushroom ( yay ), which heals about 25%.


There you have it, the perfect defensive character. Woo!

EDIT: Holy crap is this much. I should really get paid for this. *slaps newspaper on the table*

Hammers headbutts and being all-defensive..


Thats the esscense of a fighter, eh?


Plus? How is he supposed to be balanced attackwise?

 

[Circus]

Hammers headbutts and being all-defensive..


Thats the esscense of a fighter, eh?

Jigglypuff falls asleep as a legitimate attack. You don't need to have "the essence of a fighter" to at least be unique and Smash-worthy.

Plus? How is he supposed to be balanced attackwise?

I don't really understand what you mean with this question.

 

[digifreak642]

If people would just read earlier posts in the thread, we wouldn't have to repost old arguments and movesets.

 

[Gindor]

Well, Sakurai is aiming to make characters unique and give them own styles that tie in with their background, yeah...

Do note how I described his style. Completely and utterly defensive. They tried to give that style to Zelda, but failed, in my opinion. They failed hard.
Toad is a cowardish guardian. A defensive style is perfect for him. And no other character I know of really has a defensive style. Roy and Marth have counters and long range, but Marth still moves in fast with wavedashing or a dash attack and starts a combo, Roy moves in with shuffled aerials... Zelda is supposed to be defensive, as I said, but what they meant by that must've been that she simply can't be used offensively. But they completely ****ed that up. So Zelda's only approach is shuffled fairs and bairs, and again, she HAS to approach to win anything.

Someone suggested a Toad moveset consisting completely of counters, which makes him an "annoyer". I, for one, have never seen an annoyer in a Smash game... and I couldn't think of a character who'd be more well-suited for that position.

If they could pull off a defensive annoyer moveset that actually works, that would make Toad quite unique, in my opinion.

/agree

Sorry for bringing up again, but I have school and missed the sticker point.
i never really noticed him in the sticker. Sakurai is very random, seeming. this could go any way.

EDIT-A defensive strategy wouldn't rock in brawl, only if you gave it some punch, which would only fit as counter attacks. But then there would be no reason to attack toad, unless he could annoy and interupt everything the foe does. the foe would then be forced to swat him away, he then would use a counter attack, and potentially kill/heavilly damage them.
After his reputation for that rises, there would be two types of enemies.

-the fearful-they would run away, being constantly annoyed would force them to face the fact that they will have to fight him, which then becomes the second type of person.

-the fearless-they would attack toad fearlessly and be counter attacked every time by a skilled toad user and would be forced to see that fact that toad became high/top tier for a reason.

Toad would be hellishly effective in a team match. Toad wouldn't have to rely on recovery moves and his horrible jumping skills wouldn't matter in the hands of a skilled toad user. He wouldn't be good in the hands of lesser skilled players due to his odd defensive style.
Also, he would make it into high tier for reasons that others didn't use. Fox falco, sheik and marth got in mainly because of their speed, though marth also has range and attack priority backing him up.

FYI, I am part nOOb and didn't quote myself from the past page right.

Quoted yet again wrong!

 

[Blobulator]

Well.. unfortunately it seems he wasn't replaced in Peach's moveset... Certainly doesn't help Toad's chances >.<

 

[majoras.]

lol, sorry he is not making it, see the update ^.^

 

[silver777]

sorry Toad fans