Q&A Tips & Answers from a Passing Ninja - Greninja Q&A Thread

[Spirst]

View attachment 29022
That distance...

I know. Wii U is going to be fun.

 

[SoulessAngel64]

I need to know some pro things about greninja, because I have the skill to use him, I just don't know much

 

[Funkermonster]

Best move to use against roll spmmers? Fought this really annoying Dark Pit player yesterday and I couldn't hit him with Dsmash.

 

[Spirst]

Memorize the speed and distance of their roll and go for timed grabs or utilts if they go behind you. DSmash isn't that great.

 

[Funkermonster]

Utilts and Timed grabs, got it. Will work on it next time, thanks.

 

[BlazeFlipnotes]

I happen to be a Greninja main (pretty good,though due to school,my skill level jumps up and down repetitively)
I want to know any reliable tips to using him :U

I already know he needs to hit and run and be evasive but anymore tips?

And another thing,I know a decent amount of combos with him, but I suppose if you know one or some you can say :b

 

[Spirst]

I happen to be a Greninja main (pretty good,though due to school,my skill level jumps up and down repetitively)
I want to know any reliable tips to using him :U

I already know he needs to hit and run and be evasive but anymore tips?

And another thing,I know a decent amount of combos with him, but I suppose if you know one or some you can say :b

There's a combo thread right here: http://smashboards.com/threads/greninjas-true-combos.375003/

As for tips, read through the stickied threads, and watch videos of other players using him to see what works and what doesn't. Getting good is all about experimental learning.

 

[Choice]

what do you guys do against diddy kong and rosa? might just because of the 3ds limitations, but i think doing whiff punishes on them seems pretty difficult

 

[DillyDilly]

Newbie to Greninja, decided pretty late in the game to main him after wasting a lot of time working on characters who just weren't cutting it in the "good" department.
Quick question to all you technical ninjas, how do you guys get to short hop consistently with Greninja? I've sat in training for a good long while and I just can't get the hang of short hopping with fast chars. My previous mains all have relatively infinite frames before hopping, but I just can't get it with these newfangled fast characters. Here's to hoping this isn't just a thing that comes naturally to people and I'm not making a fool of myself. Thanks

 

[Spirst]

Newbie to Greninja, decided pretty late in the game to main him after wasting a lot of time working on characters who just weren't cutting it in the "good" department.
Quick question to all you technical ninjas, how do you guys get to short hop consistently with Greninja? I've sat in training for a good long while and I just can't get the hang of short hopping with fast chars. My previous mains all have relatively infinite frames before hopping, but I just can't get it with these newfangled fast characters. Here's to hoping this isn't just a thing that comes naturally to people and I'm not making a fool of myself. Thanks

Hey, it's really early in the game, actually. You have plenty of time.

Tap jump off, for starters. I use X as my main jumping button. The key is to quickly tap the button gently enough for it to not register as a full hop. Try noticing the pressure differences that lead to each kind of jump and get used to the amount you need to exert at maximum to pull it off. For shorthop nairs, I use the right-side tip of my thumb to press X, then make a small wave motion so the second joint taps the A button. You'll get used to it.

 

[joaoTforce]

is there a thread that explains how to do the up-air spike? So far I have only been able to get it once and it was pure luck.

 

[BigHairyFart]

is there a thread that explains how to do the up-air spike? So far I have only been able to get it once and it was pure luck.

Basically, the U-Air has to stop hitting them before the very last hit comes out, AND you have to be fast falling.
So the string is U-Air>FF>Stop hitting them(either by them DI'ing out, our by YOU landing on the stage). They will retain the speed of your fast fall.

 

[joaoTforce]

Basically, the U-Air has to stop hitting them before the very last hit comes out, AND you have to be fast falling.
So the string is U-Air>FF>Stop hitting them(either by them DI'ing out, our by YOU landing on the stage). They will retain the speed of your fast fall.

ok I'll try it. thank you!

 

[Funkermonster]

Any particular use for Fthrow or Dthrow? Because I can't find any.

 

[Red5_snt]

I'll upload a video later, but I was playing on the starfox stage (I think corneria omega) on the 3ds earlier. I did shadow sneak and passed through the middle of the stage. I think I just got Sakurai'd. Also, has anyone experienced SS overcharging? Like you release it, but it still continues to extend while you're not holding down B? It happens frequently on the 3ds for me, and it happened twice while playing WiiU yesterday.

Do these things affect anyone else or is it possibly a hardware issue? (obviously not with the pass through, but the over charged Shadow sneak)

 

[Zacchius]

does the uair spike still work in 1.0.4?

 

[BigHairyFart]

does the uair spike still work in 1.0.4?

Yes

 

[Spirst]

does the uair spike still work in 1.0.4?

Yes, but not the same way was before. You have to FF the uair earlier now and overall, the 'spike' effect is weaker. If you try to do it just like before, you'll just keep the other character suspended in the air instead of receiving the downward knockback.

 

[GamerGuy09]

How the hell do I kill you. Its impossible to get close to you and when I do hit you, you either shadow sneak or counter.

Its so unfun to play against I want to blow my brains out. How do I kill you.

~ Sincerely, R.O.B, Wario, Robin, DDD, Luigi Main.

 

[Marilink]

^Funny, I feel the same way about ROB...

 

[Sync.]

@ GamerGuy09 punish Greninja's landing. It's difficult to hit Greninja up close because of his jab but juggling Greninja and catching his landings is probably the easiest to handle him because he's weakest when he's trying to land. Don't let him just jump around freely

 

[pheX]

Hey there,

I suppose this question was asked a lot recently but I couldn't find it here. Who are currently the best Greninja Mains out there who place well in tournaments (WiiU) ? I would love to see some videos and I think that helps me the most. In the video thread there are many people just posting their own videos and asking for advise. I'd rather see some Pros playing Greninja to get some inspiration for my own playstyle.
Thanks.

 

[Shack]

Hey there,

I suppose this question was asked a lot recently but I couldn't find it here. Who are currently the best Greninja Mains out there who place well in tournaments (WiiU) ? I would love to see some videos and I think that helps me the most. In the video thread there are many people just posting their own videos and asking for advise. I'd rather see some Pros playing Greninja to get some inspiration for my own playstyle.
Thanks.

I asked the same thing a little while ago, I don't think there really are any right now. I have been checking Shi-G, Clash Tournaments and Tourney Locator almost every day since release and have yet to see any Greninjas creep out. Hopefully someone will... make a splash. I know Nec 15 happened this weekend, I am trying to find archives of that, hopefully there are some Greninjas in there.

Any particular use for Fthrow or Dthrow? Because I can't find any.

Down Throw puts them pretty close in front of you. You can use it to see if they panic and can sometimes land a FSmash, FAir, or just grab them again when they land.

Best move to use against roll spmmers? Fought this really annoying Dark Pit player yesterday and I couldn't hit him with Dsmash.

Hydro Pump away from them to clear the space and get 2%. Honestly it's more of a timing thing, you can punish with nearly any move if you anticipate the roll and turn around before they get behind you. Greninja has long legs too so sometimes it's better to stay in his FTilt/BAir range. You can also try to short hop with a NAir or BAir and land behind them so they can't grab you.

 

[DavidAgile]

Coming as a Pikachu main, didn't really pick Greninja up that much before 1.0.4 patch. How is he now? I know his KO potential has been nerfed by upsmash and the windbox on his Hydro Pump.

EDIT: Is there anything I should practice to start out with him?

 

[Dendros]

Has anyone had any success with comboing from Utilt?

 

[Spirst]

Has anyone had any success with comboing from Utilt?

First off, that avatar is amazing.

Yes, I've had success with utilt>usmash/uair/bair. It works as well as ever.

 

[Dendros]

First off, that avatar is amazing.

Yes, I've had success with utilt>usmash/uair/bair. It works as well as ever.

Thanks, I want it to strike fear into all other characters.

I was experimenting the other night and I found out that substitute is actually amazing for recovering.
because you know when they are going to hit you when recovering close the the edge you can sub and attack from bottom to top and hit them, as well as recover back to the stage.

very......sneaky

 

[Shack]

Coming as a Pikachu main, didn't really pick Greninja up that much before 1.0.4 patch. How is he now? I know his KO potential has been nerfed by upsmash and the windbox on his Hydro Pump.

EDIT: Is there anything I should practice to start out with him?

Personally I think he is mid right now for a few reasons:
- Not too many reliable KO set ups (Smashes, BAir off edge, FAir, UAir)
- Not too many consistent combos
- Regular Grab is extremely slow/laggy. I get grabbed by people on reaction to my grab sometimes -_-
- High short hop
- Hard to pressure shields outside of NAir into Jab
- FAir and NAir have tight active windows along with start up lag unlike other characters who can throw out a move instantly that stays out for a while (much needed for safe approaches and easy/low edge guards)
He really seems to rely on predictions because it is hard to react with laggy start up on a lot of moves.

That aside he does have some really good/fun strengths:
- Hydro Pump is really fun to gimp with and move around with. It also sets up Smash opportunities. You can also aim it down which will push people who try to land on top of you away and might even KO them(Yoshi, Sonic, Bowser, etc.)
- Really fast making him good to confuse people with
- Smashes have some good power and cover a decent distance
- Tilts are pretty fast and have some good range
- Short hop NAir has many follow ups (jabs, DTilt, USmash and more)
- Shuriken is really strong, it's easy to spam and if you charge it can KO + combo out of
- BAir is great for spacing and edge guards

Overall he is fast and also has the option to zone using BAirs and WS. His titls, aerials and smashes make it seem like he is more of a slightly outside of close range character. What I mean is Pikachu want's to be on top of you because of his short range and speed where Greninja has some start up lag and decent range. He is not as mid range as Marth, Samus, Pit, etc, but somewhere in between.

 

[vorpalsquirl]

What do you guys use out of shield? I can't find anything that feels incredibly good for out of shield attacks.

 

[ELC1837]

Hey y'all. Been a fan of Smash since Melee and have been practicing with Greninja for Smash on the 3DS.

One thing I noticed (in training mode mind you) is that if you're facing away from the opponent and do a Hydro Pump straight up, it will cause a vacuum effect as opposed to a pushback effect if it hits, effectively crossing them up while remaining in the same position yourself.

A few question regarding this:
1. Does this work in the middle of attacks and shields?
2. Is there a practical use for this? So far it seems rather fun (as does all the other Hydro Pump shenanigans I've been trying out), but it's practicalityy seems dubious to me, yet I'm not skilled enough to test it out myself.

Thanks ^_^

 

[BigHairyFart]

What do you guys use out of shield? I can't find anything that feels incredibly good for out of shield attacks.

Roll

 

[Shack]

What do you guys use out of shield? I can't find anything that feels incredibly good for out of shield attacks.

Depending on the range you can try to jump out, jab or DAir. It's tough to find a good GTFO move since most of his moves have start up lag.

 

[Zatchiel]

So, I've been practicing with Greninja a bit recently, and things have been going... awkwardly, I think. I want to play this character and learn him, but being so naive to him makes me feel like what I have been doing with him probably vastly differs from how he is "ideally played," if I'm making any sense.

Since I don't have means of getting my replays up (if I do have the tools available I just haven't found out how), I'm basically just going to post a list detailing his moveset and how I use it when I play. I'll try to keep it as concise as I can while still mentioning the important stuff.

Spoiler

Grounded attacks:
Jab: I wanna say I use this often. If I'm behind them and they end up in shield before my jab is out then I tend to follow up a jab or two with a dash grab, maybe shadow sneak if I foresee a roll away, or charge a smash if I foresee a sidestep/roll towards me. If they're going to jump out of shield I don't usually challenge it, I just enter shield or retreat.

F-tilt: I don't see the use of this at all, honestly. I try to never use it, but most (if not all) of the other characters I usually play have solid utility in their f-tilt; that said, I still use it sometimes because brainfart.

D-tilt: One of my favorite options for pressuring shield or just crouching to avoid an aerial and tossing one out.

U-tilt: Another one of my favorite for catching people out of the air/punishing landings or low-mid percent punishes if they end up in front of me. I follow a hit confirm up with an aerial chase generally.

Dash attack: I probably use this a lot more than I should, but I don't do it if I know they'll shield/counter it when it's incoming. So with that in mind I seldom get punished for using this, though I should maybe tone down how much I use it. I don't know what would be wise.

F-smash: I almost never use this unless I have a lot of confidence in a read.

U-smash: Probably my most used smash attack, not to imply I that toss it out recklessly or anything.

D-smash: Same as f-smash in terms of my use of it, preferably used less often though.

Aerials:

N-air: I want to use this more, but for the moment I tend to only use it to catch people after they airdodge.

F-air: One of my more used options for aerial follow-ups, sometimes edgeguarding, but that's it.

B-air: Probably my most favorite move in Greninja's arsenal. I love to RAR with it, to the point where I spam it oftentimes.

U-air: Another favorite of mine. I haven't used it much thus far, but I was planning to use it quite a bit more for my follow ups and aerial chases. FF u-air in particular seems great and the low landing lag is a fine attribute.

D-air: I don't find myself using this nearly as much as I thought I would (judging by the opponent Greninja's that I've played in the past). I try to implement it as a mix-up occasionally but for the most part I don't dair use this move. Heh. <3

Specials:

Water Shuriken: I believe I use this move the most, of any at his disposal. I wavebounce it (away) whenever I'm in air if I feel the opponent is too close for comfort when I initiate it, although I try not to use it often in close quarters. A short leap forward + wavebounce shuriken does the trick for me, but I use it on the ground as well.

Shadow Sneak: I like to KO with this if I take it my opponent will roll away from me and towards the ledge, or if they'll spotdodge expecting me to dash in and grab them when they're prone/open. Otherwise, I rarely touch this move.

Counter: Haven't used it much, but I've been trying to use it for KOing against predictable aggression. Maybe as an aerial mix-up as well but definitely not much in that regard.

Hydro Pump: Just recovering. Thinking about it's usefulness as a gimping tool against some characters.

Grabs/Throws:

Standing grab: Not often used.

Dash grab: Very often used.

Pivot grab: Very often used.

F-throw: I don't use this unless I want my opponent offstage and I'm facing the nearest ledge.

B-throw: Same as f-throw, basically.

U-throw: Setting up for aerial chases.

D-throw: Might become my most used throw, but I still don't know how to follow this up. If true combos are possible from it, I have no idea what they are yet.

Pummel: Sparingly used. Depends on my opponent, their percent, and other factors. Usually I go for at least one at mid percents and beyond before throwing.

I'd talk about my ledge play but I think that's fine. I can't really include any questions about match-up specific stuff since I don't have any as of yet. If there are any questions about what I didn't mention please feel free to ask. I'm really eager to improve.

 

[MartinAW4]

So, I've been practicing with Greninja a bit recently, and things have been going... awkwardly, I think. I want to play this character and learn him, but being so naive to him makes me feel like what I have been doing with him probably vastly differs from how he is "ideally played," if I'm making any sense.

Since I don't have means of getting my replays up (if I do have the tools available I just haven't found out how), I'm basically just going to post a list detailing his moveset and how I use it when I play. I'll try to keep it as concise as I can while still mentioning the important stuff.

Spoiler

Grounded attacks:
Jab: I wanna say I use this often. If I'm behind them and they end up in shield before my jab is out then I tend to follow up a jab or two with a dash grab, maybe shadow sneak if I foresee a roll away, or charge a smash if I foresee a sidestep/roll towards me. If they're going to jump out of shield I don't usually challenge it, I just enter shield or retreat.

F-tilt: I don't see the use of this at all, honestly. I try to never use it, but most (if not all) of the other characters I usually play have solid utility in their f-tilt; that said, I still use it sometimes because brainfart.

D-tilt: One of my favorite options for pressuring shield or just crouching to avoid an aerial and tossing one out.

U-tilt: Another one of my favorite for catching people out of the air/punishing landings or low-mid percent punishes if they end up in front of me. I follow a hit confirm up with an aerial chase generally.

Dash attack: I probably use this a lot more than I should, but I don't do it if I know they'll shield/counter it when it's incoming. So with that in mind I seldom get punished for using this, though I should maybe tone down how much I use it. I don't know what would be wise.

F-smash: I almost never use this unless I have a lot of confidence in a read.

U-smash: Probably my most used smash attack, not to imply I that toss it out recklessly or anything.

D-smash: Same as f-smash in terms of my use of it, preferably used less often though.

Aerials:

N-air: I want to use this more, but for the moment I tend to only use it to catch people after they airdodge.

F-air: One of my more used options for aerial follow-ups, sometimes edgeguarding, but that's it.

B-air: Probably my most favorite move in Greninja's arsenal. I love to RAR with it, to the point where I spam it oftentimes.

U-air: Another favorite of mine. I haven't used it much thus far, but I was planning to use it quite a bit more for my follow ups and aerial chases. FF u-air in particular seems great and the low landing lag is a fine attribute.

D-air: I don't find myself using this nearly as much as I thought I would (judging by the opponent Greninja's that I've played in the past). I try to implement it as a mix-up occasionally but for the most part I don't dair use this move. Heh. <3

Specials:

Water Shuriken: I believe I use this move the most, of any at his disposal. I wavebounce it (away) whenever I'm in air if I feel the opponent is too close for comfort when I initiate it, although I try not to use it often in close quarters. A short leap forward + wavebounce shuriken does the trick for me, but I use it on the ground as well.

Shadow Sneak: I like to KO with this if I take it my opponent will roll away from me and towards the ledge, or if they'll spotdodge expecting me to dash in and grab them when they're prone/open. Otherwise, I rarely touch this move.

Counter: Haven't used it much, but I've been trying to use it for KOing against predictable aggression. Maybe as an aerial mix-up as well but definitely not much in that regard.

Hydro Pump: Just recovering. Thinking about it's usefulness as a gimping tool against some characters.

Grabs/Throws:

Standing grab: Not often used.

Dash grab: Very often used.

Pivot grab: Very often used.

F-throw: I don't use this unless I want my opponent offstage and I'm facing the nearest ledge.

B-throw: Same as f-throw, basically.

U-throw: Setting up for aerial chases.

D-throw: Might become my most used throw, but I still don't know how to follow this up. If true combos are possible from it, I have no idea what they are yet.

Pummel: Sparingly used. Depends on my opponent, their percent, and other factors. Usually I go for at least one at mid percents and beyond before throwing.

I'd talk about my ledge play but I think that's fine. I can't really include any questions about match-up specific stuff since I don't have any as of yet. If there are any questions about what I didn't mention please feel free to ask. I'm really eager to improve.

From your description I think you`re using Greninja well.
His best moves are: Jab, Dtilt, Utilt, Nair, Bair, Uair, Water Shuriken, Hydro Pump, Uthrow
Moves that are risky but still good are: Dash Attack, Usmash, Fair, Dair, Shadow Sneak, Substitute
Fsmash, Dsmash and the remaining throws are not so great, but they have their uses and Ftilt is in my opinion by far Greninja`s worst move.

The main thing I`d recommend for you to practice is SHFF Nair. It has low landing lag, deals good damage (11 sweetspot and 6 sourspot), it`s a disjointed hitbox with decent range, cancels projectiles and combos into Jab or Dtilt at low %, and into Usmash, Fair, Uair or even itself at high %. You can use it as another approach move alongside Dash Attack and Dash Grab.

The other thing to practice is gimping with Hydro Pump. It`s not as easy as it was before, but it still works and even if you don`t get the gimp, you often send the opponent into a very unfavorable position where you can hit them with a sweetspot Usmash.

Also in your Shadow Sneak description you didn`t mention whether you use it for recovering or not. So just in case you didn`t know, if you get knocked off stage, you can start charging SS after your hitstun wears off and use it to come closer to the stage and punish anyone standing at the edge trying to edgeguard you. Even if they shield, they won`t be able to grab you because by the time their shield stun wears off, you will be below the stage out of their range. Just watch out for characters with counters. Against those, hit them from below the stage since the vertical range of SS is really good. They`ll eventually learn to stay away from the edge after getting hit once or twice, but that will allow you to return to the stage safely.
SS is also great for punishing rolls and landings and you can even use it off stage to edgeguard (the timing is similar to Fair).

 

[Lavani]

What do you guys use out of shield? I can't find anything that feels incredibly good for out of shield attacks.

Greninja's OoS options are quite poor. 10f shielddrop jab, 12f shielddrop dtilt, 14f shieldgrab. His shorthop goes too high and his aerials are too laggy on startup for anything to functionally punish from a jump OoS. All things considered you'll find a decent amount of things that you won't be able to punish on shield.

 

[Dooms]

What character should I be using when teaming with a Greninja?

I'm normally a DH/Sheik player, and while both of those seemed to work pretty well for us in the tournament I recently played in with a Greninja, I don't really feel that either of them brought out Greninja's highest potential. I'm willing to start putting in a lot of work for a third character specifically for this team, so what characters would you all recommend for this?

 

[FrackAttack]

Hi everyone! I've been a Greninja main since day 1 and I think I am doing ok, but I'm struggling with follow-up moves once I get somebody off the edge. I've tried a lot of things, but I'm wondering if there's some specific moves that are particularly good for ruining their recovery.

One of my main concerns is that the other player's midair recovery moves will often trump mine and make me regret following them off the edge in the first place, so I'm inclined to just wait on the stage for the sake of safety. But I'm guessing that's not terribly smart gameplay.

This is the first Smash where I've actually been dedicated enough to use Smashboards, so bear with me as I figure out the proper lingo for attacks and moves.

 

[Marilink]

^Welcome aboard!

Greninja's Back Aerial (Bair) is one of his strongest moves, and probably the best for edge guarding. You can hit them into the stage for Stage Spikes, or you can hang on the ledge, drop down, and Double-Jump into a Bair for possible gimps and kills.

Hydro Pump can also be a strong gimping tool, especially on characters with vertical recoveries. (Btw, a Gimp is when you cut off or completely ruin someone's attempted rexovery, usually in a way that makes the opponent nice and salty.)

Finally, Shadow Sneak offstage is very good to mix in. The timing is similar to Greninja's forward aerial (Fair).

 

[Zatchiel]

So I've had a lot of moments recently where I would go for an f-smash punish on landings and it would just whiff completely at point-blank range. From what I can tell you can't angle f-smash so what exactly is the problem here?

 

[BlinkIV]

What character should I be using when teaming with a Greninja?

I'm normally a DH/Sheik player, and while both of those seemed to work pretty well for us in the tournament I recently played in with a Greninja, I don't really feel that either of them brought out Greninja's highest potential. I'm willing to start putting in a lot of work for a third character specifically for this team, so what characters would you all recommend for this?

Personally from my experience I prefer teaming with Shiek. Shiek excels at keeping stage control and putting opponents into bad positions whereas Greninja can just focus on kills on/offstage. Shiek covers a ton of options that Greninja would typically get punished for and they both can combo VERY well off each other. The only issue with Shiek is her kill power, but Greninja can cover that without any issues. But she sure is good at getting gimps!