Can't we read airdodges fairly reliably?
In a bo3 2 stock set, its hard to be sure of the opponents habits quickly.
Yes, greninja can punish airdodges well, which is what you were going for i think. But im talking about a situation where they jump + AD after dtilt. I guess fair is very low risk here, quickly FFing to the ground puts you in an advantage situation.
I was looking for something that says 'if you jump away this option hurts really bad'. I first started looking for it when reading DunnoBro's very extensive optimizations on the Mario boards. Uthrow is optimal for Mario at certain percent ranges; if they jump away FH DJ Fludd puts them in a horrific position. I want something like this for greninja.
So, ive been working on dashing under their jump, HPing into the ground and shooting a small jet of water at them. If it hits them as they jump, they fly into the stratosphere and are in a very bad situation. I guess this answers my question.... but im looking for something that covers lots of options. I know you can look at any option, and greninja being faster in the air means he can catch up and punish, but im looking for multiple option coverage rather than going for hard reads, since id rather be consistent in the situation i get advantage. Something really safe that hard punishes one option (HP down) is nice here, since you collect info on your opponents habits while being unpunishable.
So im looking for anything im missing, like a different HP angle or something clever with holding a SS charge, FH WS charge (good on slower chars offstage), etc.
Top tiers keep accelerating partly because hyper competitive players all put their heads together. Ryu players, for example, get PMs about certain parts of their game where a certain option is strictly superior. I know the frog is option rich enough to do this too, so if anyone wants to help me with it, point me to a metagame thread i might have missed, or shoot me a PM, id love it. Gren has actually been getting good results so its a good time to use that momentum.
free33
like this kinda stuff!
I like SH fair, it hits at foot level so you can FF down and be safe, it can shield poke, and it is safer and as damaging as SS.
Riskier and more rewarding, you can jump to the side of the plat and dair past, hitting a roll or shield but falling past if they dont get hit. Platform drop aerial will hit, but at dair SS or dair fair percents, risk/reward is slightly in your favor.
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Watching Ally and Zenyou, i was noticing they both like standing grab ->jab if the opponent spotdodge. It also works vs rolls at the ledge, and if you get neither reaction you obviously dont jab. Well, i checked my trusty kuroganehammer, and noticed a happy surprise. Greninja's standing grab has 5 less recovery frames.
The initial grabbox is a little slower, but once it comes out functionally its better than Mario's jab tactic. If they spotdodge too close, a dtilt probably works well since itd hit when marios jab hits.