Q&A Tips & Answers from a Passing Ninja - Greninja Q&A Thread

[free33]

hey guys concerning the Uair spike, I always have trouble with it. Apparently we are supposed to be able to fastfall right after the Uair starts, but the spike doesn't seem to come out, and I just fastfall away before they get hit by the last hit of the Uair. I seem to have to reach the apex of my jump before I fastfall, which severely limits the usefulness of this technique. I know you can perform the spike more consistently than that. I have seen people initiate the Uair as they rise many times. What am i doing wrong? Thanks. If this is confusing, i can provide a video later.

 

[dumcb]

Hey guys, I'm a Sonic main here looking to branch out a bit and had some questions and I would greatly appreciate any help.

How good is Greninja's neutral game? He seems to have decent frame data and range on attacks from what I've seen, with a pretty spammy projectile. Does his neutral hold up well against top tiers?

Is he good capitalizing on punishes? I play Sonic so I can bait attacks and capitalize on whiffs, and that's probably so far what I'm best at. Can Greninja do this to an extent as well?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Ninja Asashin]

Hey guys, I'm a Sonic main here looking to branch out a bit and had some questions and I would greatly appreciate any help.

How good is Greninja's neutral game? He seems to have decent frame data and range on attacks from what I've seen, with a pretty spammy projectile. Does his neutral hold up well against top tiers?

Is he good capitalizing on punishes? I play Sonic so I can bait attacks and capitalize on whiffs, and that's probably so far what I'm best at. Can Greninja do this to an extent as well?

Thank you in advance!

Greninja is a hit and run character like sonic and his neutral game is pretty much technical and you have to be on your toe and react to your opponent every move and punish your opponent. Greninja can capitalizes on punishes but not as good as sonic. Greninja can bait air dodges by jumping to make your opponent think that you are going to do a U-Air then fast falling to the ground to charge U-Smash under them. He can cover ledge options with D-Smash, U-Smash and F-Smash. Greninja can hold his own against Rosalina and Zero Suit Samus but not Sheik.

- Water Shuriken to wall out your opponent and great to rack up damage (By throwing out water shuriken and walling out your opponent gives you a chance to think of what to do next and if you spam water shuriken it gives the opponent time to power shield and approach)
- N-air is not safe on shield but is good when you cross-up your opponent which leads to a turn around F-tilt, D-tilt, Jab and Grab
- B-air is safe on shield but racks up damage
- F-air is safe on shield also a good spacing tool and a kill move

For approaching

- Dash Attack is pretty good it can lead to Jab
- N-air crossed up leads to a turn around F-tilt, D-tilt, Jab and Grab
- F-air auto canceled
- B-air

 

[IceGoat]

With the new update to Bonk I may have discovered some new uses. It can be used as a recovery mix-up on walled stages like Duck Hunt and even the right side of Battlefield. I tried it on both FD and Dreamland and it works, just not as useful and harder to do. Thoughts? Should I make a new post about it?

 

[BigHairyFart]

That's really clever, but I don't see how it would be preferred over just going straight for the ledge.

 

[IceGoat]

That's really clever, but I don't see how it would be preferred over just going straight for the ledge.

Yeah it as more of just a neat little quirk, maybe to be used every once in a long time for a mixup.

 

[Guimartgon]

It could be used to trump people but you'd much rather just delay your upB

 

[Space thing]

Greninja mains: So something weird happened the other day at a tournament. I was playing a Greninja ditto friendly against someone and he bonked against the stage. I then HP'd him away, he SS'd and maybe DJ'd, but he was somehow about to use HP again even though he didn't grab the ledge, land and the only thing I hit him with was HP, which doesn't send him into hitstun. We tried to recreate it, but couldn't, except MAYBE one time where I was able to use HP again (I wasn't sure if I touch the ground first), but nothing consistent. We saved the replay (on a Wii U that wasn't either of ours, sadly), so we were able to confirm I didn't hit him with anything but HP.

Anyone have any idea what happened?

 

[FullMoon]

If you could show us the replay it could help give a clearer picture of what happened.

 

[Space thing]

Don't have it. It was on a Wii U at the venue. No idea who owned it.

 

[FullMoon]

Oh whoops, I was on the phone and missed that little detail.

Anyway, I have no clue. Also, I thought you couldn't double jump after bonking on the ledge.

 

[DilSmith]

Hello all,

I have been having issues with getting the Smash Ball while using Greninja. For whatever reason, I can't seem to get my hits down with the Hydro Pump, UAir and Water Shuriken. Am I just approaching it wrong?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Guimartgon]

Hello all,

I have been having issues with getting the Smash Ball while using Greninja. For whatever reason, I can't seem to get my hits down with the Hydro Pump, UAir and Water Shuriken. Am I just approaching it wrong?

Thank you for your time.

The smash ball as in the item? I mean the thing is fast and greninja's frame data is awkward I guess... try using Back Air on it? it's probably easier to hit

 

[BlitzTrain]

I seem to have the most luck getting it with Fair, Bair or Nair after it's trying to get away from someone.

Then again, sometimes I'd rather just try and kill the other fighters while they're focused on chasing the Smash Ball around, and beating a FS out of someone is surprisingly satisfying

 

[DilSmith]

Thank you very much for the replies!

 

[MasterGibz]

Taking Greninja top my first tournament (Wii U). What would be good starter and counter stages for him?

 

[Guimartgon]

Taking Greninja top my first tournament (Wii U). What would be good starter and counter stages for him?

It depends on you I think. Generally Town and City and Dreamland are good since you can kill early but some people get annoyed because the DL platforms can make you drop uair spike combos sometimes. I personally enjoy FD a lot but some people think it's terrible for greninja due to the lack of platforms to run around in. If its your first greninja tourney you might as well just try places out. Mostly T&C and DL are good, Smashville is alright and you can take early Fsmash kills. Lylat is not desirable due to the tilting getting rid of shuriken. Duck Hunt is alright, you can abuse the tree sometimes and snag kills on risky players and the wall is nice to delay your recovery.

 

[Digdug]

Hi guys and gals

Long time lurker seeking advice I sort of picked up greninja few months ago. I feel like I have all the bread and butter stuff on lock. The one problem i am having is my Nair I can't seem to get it out correctly. Can anyone explain to me the inputs because I haven't came across this in the main guide unless I missed it or if there is a video.

Thanks fellow frogs!

 

[BigHairyFart]

Hi guys and gals

Long time lurker seeking advice I sort of picked up greninja few months ago. I feel like I have all the bread and butter stuff on lock. The one problem i am having is my Nair I can't seem to get it out correctly. Can anyone explain to me the inputs because I haven't came across this in the main guide unless I missed it or if there is a video.

Thanks fellow frogs!

 

[Digdug]

Oh it has to be a fast fall

 

[Steve.Stone]

You don't have to fast fall, just jump and press A. Fast fall Nair is just a good combo starter. You can do fast fall nair to footstool combos, or at higher percents a Nair can knock the opponent up and away enough to do an up air or Fair, or even a other Nair.

 

[Blaziking17]

It'll help to mix up the Nair option on opponents since SHFFNair can be shielded if they're expecting it.

 

[iVoltage]

So I'm just getting the basics down, I read about sweetspot Nair but I don't exactly know which part of the hitbox it is. Also does it increase hitstun?

 

[BigHairyFart]

It's the first two frames of the hit. The next two frames are the weak hit, and yes, the strong hit does more damage, knockback, and hitstun.

 

[Yumemaru]

Here is a video guide of the tech c-bounce.
I thinks it's a pretty useful tech for Greninja.

Spoiler: YT Video

Basic explanation and demonstration for all characters who can do it.

 

[LiL.Will]

Who are some great Greninjas to watch that have a "rushdown" playstyle? Im told I play very defensive alot and would like to see what moves the heavy offensive Greninjas use to keep up the pressure.

-Thank you

 

[BigHairyFart]

Good Greninja's don't have a rushdown playstyle, it's just not what he's good at.

 

[LiL.Will]

Good Greninja's don't have a rushdown playstyle, it's just not what he's good at.

Ah ok thank you mind if I ask what playstyle a a good Greninja uses then?

 

[BigHairyFart]

Best way to describe optimal Greninja play is "hit-and-run". He's really quick and Water Shuriken are amazing projectiles, so you can easily run away from nearly anyone. Most of his attacks have a little bit of startup to them, so you're not likely to land anything outside of punishing something unsafe. That said, when you do get in, Greninja's combo game is pretty top notch, and you can get a lot of mileage out of a single grab/N-Air.

 

[Megamang]

I would say he kinda plays advantage like a trap character, or at least an option covering/vortex style, with a focus on punishing airdodges.


And a grab for resetting that option, both for dthrow mixups and uthrow chase situations/landing traps.

Charged shurikan beats most projectiles and uncharged shurikans are amazing on their own, so he can zone/ anti zone

 

[free33]

I would classify his playstyle as passive aggressive, but he gets more and more defensive depending on the matchup.

 

[Guimartgon]

- MU Question.

So CO is filled with Yoshis and I keep going Cloud vs them because I feel like I can just win the neutral via sword and side B will kill at like 90% cause dumb hitboxes. I sometimes try Greninja on them and I can beat most of the lower level Yoshis but when I play some of the more skilled ones I feel like I get lost fairly quickly.

- My gameplan is to use shurikens and wait for an opportunity to combo:
• I barely ever get those windows because Frame Data.
• While WS is certainly a better projectile for Spamming than eggs. A single egg is more threatening than a shuriken and with Yoshi's air speed it becomes hard to maintain space from afar.
• My ground movement can help wonders at playing the keep away game but again, Yoshi's fast, eggs stay out for a while giving him stage control, making it hard for me to win via ground game only.
• There are windows where I can challenge Yoshi in the Air(as he is trying to throw and egg at midrange, Fair aerial lag with Fair)
• Yoshi is heavy as hell.
• FCWS isn't good to regain control of the stage, it is too big of a commitment, Yoshi enjoys the air and can just jump over it.

I just feel like the neutral game is very in Yoshis side.

Any tips on how I can get past this? Also if this is meant to go on the MU discussion page my bad!

 

[BigHairyFart]

For challenging him in the air, I'd recommend U-Smash, or maybe even U-Tilt, as both are disjointed and may beat his other aerials.

 

[Megamang]

Yoshi extends his hurtbox with his moves a lot. You can punish this with fair pretty well, or even smashes if you are sure you'll land the hit. Usmash can be good here, but annoyingly Yoshi can often trade fair with first hit of usmash only (where it breaks the move) which is a trade we lose pretty badly, especially at kill percents where he will go for uair or usmash landing reads. Learn to avoid these as best you can, and abuse shield because his grab game is decidedly meh.

 

[LazyFrogRobot MKII]

Any tips for landing the up air spike? Landing footstools after nair whilst neutral jumping(perfecting this would really help out of shield options; I know it's possible, but idk how to do it)? Also, how d you guys play the peach match up, particularly in neutral and footsies?

 

[Megamang]

To get a footstool against an opponent, who will probably be holding away vs greninja, requires you to be moving forward. OOS nair isn't going to be a footstool starter unfortunately, even if you can get it to work in training.


When I was watching istudying destroy people in friendlies, he really liked uair spike -> footstool -> dair dair -> stuff.

That kind of answers one of your questions with another one of your questions. Uh, uair spike is all about the timing. You can't land it out of uthrow unless they airdodge, so you can force that with hitting regular uairs out of uthrow. Then, the timing here is like jump as if you were going to uair them, when they dodge, start the uair and fall past them, dragging them with the uair hitbox. Just practice it, it'll be better if you can feel it out rather than reading a timing.

 

[Mokeyo]

What are the best ways to bait out opportunities for a footstool setup at mid-high percents as the Frog? My execution for most of Greninja's footstool setups is getting pretty crispy but the challenge always is trying to implement them in a match. iStudying's footstool setup vs ESAM for example (grounded footstool, dair, footstool, bair lock, forward smash) seems like a really solid setup that can basically mean death for some characters at 90% simply by jumping on their head - problem is how exactly one goes about implementing it. Weaving through the air then landing the grounded footstool is difficult as often people will either shield, spot dodge or do an anti-air attack when you try go for it.

I get the feeling such setups are best used in a bait and punish kind of way, where you try make your opponent commit to an option that allows you to more easily manoeuvre your way onto their head and begin shenanigans. I'm just struggling to get into situations where I can pull it off without obviously fishing for it.

 

[BigHairyFart]

It's easier to go for a N-Air(either strong or weak depending on %) than a direct footstool for a punish, since N-Air leads into a footstool. I've also had good success with Jab 1>FS and Jab 1,2>FS as a really good mixup at high %(this CAN be inescapable, but you have to adjust your jab timings based on weight and % so that they can't jump out or sheild before you get the FS).

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Hello greninjas! Recently, I have been trying to make Greninja my tercerary character to cover some matchups and because Greninja is so fun to play and so hype! Specifically, the matchups tht neither Dedede nor Charizard can handle are Yoshi and Bayonetta. I know that Greninja can SSHC out of Bayonetta's combos, which is really nice, but I am looking for more tips with these matchups. Could I just get some general advice for Greninja versus Yoshi and Bayo? Like, what stages should I pick? What should I watch out for, what can I punish, and what are your opinions about these matchups? Thanks guys!

 

[free33]

Hello greninjas! Recently, I have been trying to make Greninja my tercerary character to cover some matchups and because Greninja is so fun to play and so hype! Specifically, the matchups tht neither Dedede nor Charizard can handle are Yoshi and Bayonetta. I know that Greninja can SSHC out of Bayonetta's combos, which is really nice, but I am looking for more tips with these matchups. Could I just get some general advice for Greninja versus Yoshi and Bayo? Like, what stages should I pick? What should I watch out for, what can I punish, and what are your opinions about these matchups? Thanks guys!

with yoshi, try to go under him at all times. Choose your moments to go in wisely, as he simply has better frame date than you up close. shuriken spam him and force him to approach, and try to play a bait-based game. You can run under him and upsmash a lot due to their tendency to use eggs in the air. Don't try to directly follow up from down tiltin mid percent, as he will usually nair out of it. Instead, full hop and nair him. So yeah play the patient game, focus on juggles, and pick your moments wisely. if he tries to dair your shield, usually you can just up tilt, as the tongue is completely invincible.