Q&A Tips & Answers from a Passing Ninja - Greninja Q&A Thread

Liberation

Atolm Dragon
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#1

Got a question regarding the mysterious ninja, Greninja, in Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U? Have no fear, this thread is here! For a quick little question you want answered, just ask, and a fellow with the game just may be able to answer your question.

As time goes on, and many questions get answered, a FAQ section shall be added to the OP.​
 
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#6
May I ask what are his custom specials for his SideB and DownB? Do the regular versions currently seem any practical?
 

Liberation

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#7
May I ask what are his custom specials for his SideB and DownB? Do the regular versions currently seem any practical?
Check the Movest and General Information Thread for Custom Specials!
(Personally, I see Side Special 1 is still quite practical.)
 
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#8
Check the Movest and General Information Thread for Custom Specials!
(Personally, I see Side Special 1 is still quite practical.)
I'd say his Up Special 1 is pretty practical as well (as is any alternative other than the straight trajectory ones). The windbox is a really useful gimping tool.
 

TTYK

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#9
I'd say his Up Special 1 is pretty practical as well (as is any alternative other than the straight trajectory ones). The windbox is a really useful gimping tool.
All the specials seem practical to me, I wish sakurai would have had kind of like a multiple shuriken throwing like Fox's blaster.
 

JayJolt

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#11
I believe his down air is a meteor, its risky if you miss because it can just send you straight down, but if you do hit you can meteor/spike the opp when they are off ledge and send them low enough so they can't recover.
 

Jmacz

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#15
I've gotten a few kills with Shadow Sneak at the ledge to, I even manged to hit one off stage for a kill at around 100-110%

Did some testing and it actually kills Link from the edge of FD at 112%.
 

Jmacz

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#17
Is his NAir a practical approach with short hops? And for that matter, what are his best approaches?

This is something I'm struggling with atm with Greninja so I'd like to hear what others think. Right now I try to wait until I can hit them with a shuriken and then run in for a dash attack or a up smash. Shadow Sneak is also really really good against anyone using projectiles.

Keep in mind I suck so I could of just given everyone bad information lol.
 
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#18
I've had short hop n-air work in some situations, but it's not safe on shield (against the standard grab... it might be against slower grab characters), so it's not that good of an approach. I don't think Greninja should be approaching with aerials in general. Shuriken pressure with Greninja's fast run speed create a lot of opportunities for dash grabs. Other than that, f-tilt pokes and thoughtful usage of dash attack are good neutral game tools as well.

Rolling behind seems pretty good too >_> Not sure how long that will stay the case though heh
 

Shack

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#19
What's up with Greninjas grab range? Is it me or is it horrible?
 

Erionn

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#21
What's up with Greninjas grab range? Is it me or is it horrible?
I haven't really had any problems with it, though sometimes I feel like it doesn't grab when the animation is definitely hitting them.
 
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Mister

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#22
I haven't really had any problems with it, though sometimes I feel like it doesn't grab when the animation is definitely hitting them.
From what I've experimented, Greninja's grab range is fairly decent, but it takes a deceptively long time to actually initiate the grab. The grab animation plays, but doesn't grab until about halfway through the animation, giving the opponent ample time to interrupt.
 

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#23
I think you just kind of expect to grab them if they are in the water but it doesn't really work like that. I've had a lot of, "really that didn't get him?" going for grabs and I assume it's just that.
 

Shack

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#25
Yeah the more im playing and watching the more I think it has a lot of start up lag
 

Chibi-Chan

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#26
DownAir sometimes comes out in slowmo, similar to G&W slow Key... But I cna't figure out how to do it. Seems like it would be great to know how to do the slow Dair. Anyone figured it out?
 

Sosuke

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#27
it happens when someone hits you away and you have momentum
 
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#28
DownAir sometimes comes out in slowmo, similar to G&W slow Key... But I cna't figure out how to do it. Seems like it would be great to know how to do the slow Dair. Anyone figured it out?
It's not something you can control as you wish, unfortunately. As said, it's only done when you're knocked back and have momentum on your movement.
 

Starbound

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#29
Thinking of picking this character up and I'm wondering if there's any customs that you guys recommend.
 

N30N

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#31
Hi Guys, This isn't exactly Greninja specific however I play him so maybe its relevant-ish.

I've heard people talk about "Stale Moves" and mention not to use moves to do damage if you need them to kill, is this a general rule and is that big of a deal, I never played Brawl and when I played Melee I never really noticed it and wonder if I need to worry about it, if someone has a link to a post explaining it or a quick run down would be much appreciated.

The other thing I was wondering is does JC Grab or normal grab make a difference in this game or for Greninja, I can't really tell easily vs CPU.

Thanks.
 
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#33
Hi Guys, This isn't exactly Greninja specific however I play him so maybe its relevant-ish.

I've heard people talk about "Stale Moves" and mention not to use moves to do damage if you need them to kill, is this a general rule and is that big of a deal, I never played Brawl and when I played Melee I never really noticed it and wonder if I need to worry about it, if someone has a link to a post explaining it or a quick run down would be much appreciated.

The other thing I was wondering is does JC Grab or normal grab make a difference in this game or for Greninja, I can't really tell easily vs CPU.

Thanks.
I don't think JC grabs really play a role in this game. For stale moves, check this out: http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Stale-Move_Negation

Basically, if you use the same move multiple times within a certain period, the damage and knockback output is lessened. In essence, if you're spamming a smash move over and over, that smash move will be less effective in landing the actual kill. Since you're using Greninja, one of his best kill moves is the usmash. Say you were to keep using it over and over beforehand as opposed to saving it. When you finally do use it when the opponent's at high percent, the chances of you actually getting the kill are soured because there's stale move negation on the move now.
 
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#34
Easiest way to setup Kills/KOs? I'm having quite some difficulty killing people with Greninja and I think that's one thing holding me back from really getting his groove (aside from occasionally approaching). I mostly found these ways but they aint working right:

  • Simple Punishes with Fsmash and Usmash, usually from missed stall-then-fall-moves. Best way I get KOs, but I have to have hard reads in order to utilize them and I find myself throwing out a bunch of Usmashes willy nilly. I know of no guaranteed or easy way to setup a Smash Kill and I usually have to do it from either an anti air or waiting for my opponent to f*ck up.
  • At Low percents I like to do Dtilt > Ftilt to build up percent and like Ftilt poking in general. Once I get higher up, I read from somebody's guide that you can combo Dtilt into Fair to get a kill and I started trying it in Training Mode. I've only done it in training mode though and haven't yet tried it into a real match, and I'm kinda scared it may not work. I'm not the greatest at converting training mode stuff into the heat of battle.
  • I get a few kills with occasional shadow sneaks, especially when recovering back. But its too situationally dependent to be of consistent use when the move has a lot of cooldown, and I get punished for doing it sometimes. Surprise move nly for me, better not turn it into a habit.
  • Uair juggles or strikes until somebody dies, but it usually fails for me since people just air dodge it.
  • Bair edgeguarding when I launch someone off, but I whiff with it more than I hit. Usually my opponent is either too high above me for it to get them, or too low below me where they can just grab the ledge. For the latter scenario, I was thinking of either fastfalling my Bair when I try to get them or grabbing after one Bair to save myself, then do another Bair and he it kills them.
  • Hydro Pump gimps, I know about it but I can't do it since I've never seen it in action. I don't know which direction I'm supposed to launch myself in.
 

Yojimbo

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#36
Does the nair have any practical use? I can't seem to follow it up with much.
I've found you can get a jab combo off it at low percents from a short hop, but that's about it. I've seen some players using it to edge guard if they are recovering slightly higher than the edge, but in most cases, Hydro Pump is better for that.

I tried approaching with it, and it wasn't working out. It's a very situational move, probably one of the weakest in his arsenal.
 
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#37
Easiest way to setup Kills/KOs? I'm having quite some difficulty killing people with Greninja and I think that's one thing holding me back from really getting his groove (aside from occasionally approaching). I mostly found these ways but they aint working right:

  • Simple Punishes with Fsmash and Usmash, usually from missed stall-then-fall-moves. Best way I get KOs, but I have to have hard reads in order to utilize them and I find myself throwing out a bunch of Usmashes willy nilly. I know of no guaranteed or easy way to setup a Smash Kill and I usually have to do it from either an anti air or waiting for my opponent to f*ck up.
  • At Low percents I like to do Dtilt > Ftilt to build up percent and like Ftilt poking in general. Once I get higher up, I read from somebody's guide that you can combo Dtilt into Fair to get a kill and I started trying it in Training Mode. I've only done it in training mode though and haven't yet tried it into a real match, and I'm kinda scared it may not work. I'm not the greatest at converting training mode stuff into the heat of battle.
  • I get a few kills with occasional shadow sneaks, especially when recovering back. But its too situationally dependent to be of consistent use when the move has a lot of cooldown, and I get punished for doing it sometimes. Surprise move nly for me, better not turn it into a habit.
  • Uair juggles or strikes until somebody dies, but it usually fails for me since people just air dodge it.
  • Bair edgeguarding when I launch someone off, but I whiff with it more than I hit. Usually my opponent is either too high above me for it to get them, or too low below me where they can just grab the ledge. For the latter scenario, I was thinking of either fastfalling my Bair when I try to get them or grabbing after one Bair to save myself, then do another Bair and he it kills them.
  • Hydro Pump gimps, I know about it but I can't do it since I've never seen it in action. I don't know which direction I'm supposed to launch myself in.
For b-air edgeguarding, try doing run off b-air no fast fall (ie- b-air TOWARDS the stage) if they recover low. B-air has good range and it can hit some characters even as they're up-b'ing to the ledge. They'll have the opportunity to tech the stage usually, but you may be able to get follow-up Hydro Pump shenanigans afterwards.
 

mightychir

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#38
Does the nair have any practical use? I can't seem to follow it up with much.
I use it quite frequently for aerial approaching. Like Yojimbo mentioned, you can follow up with jabs or sometimes I would start from a very low % short hop> fair>utilt>utilt> fair. However, the timing is crucial and generally on very low %'s, sometimes not more than 15% I have only tried this on medium to heavy characters and highly doubt it works on smaller, lighter characters.

And much like Pika Kong mentioned, I have found it hard to get a solid KO on an opponent other than trying to punish with fsmash or usmash (which I REALLY enjoy the good range of). Other forms of punishing I suppose I would try is side b or down b (of course, requires mad amounts of good timing and/or prediction). The only main thing I really to work on haha

Not sure if mentioned before, but fully charged shuriken, as far as me, has been majority of the time successfully followed up by a fair once the shuriken launches. Its useful for edgeguarding if landed and as I said, can be followed by dashing then fair'ing. This generally works for me on 50%+ but not too high as the launch from shuriken will be too great to follow up.
 
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#39
I use it quite frequently for aerial approaching. Like Yojimbo mentioned, you can follow up with jabs or sometimes I would start from a very low % short hop> fair>utilt>utilt> fair. However, the timing is crucial and generally on very low %'s, sometimes not more than 15% I have only tried this on medium to heavy characters and highly doubt it works on smaller, lighter characters.

And much like Pika Kong mentioned, I have found it hard to get a solid KO on an opponent other than trying to punish with fsmash or usmash (which I REALLY enjoy the good range of). Other forms of punishing I suppose I would try is side b or down b (of course, requires mad amounts of good timing and/or prediction). The only main thing I really to work on haha

Not sure if mentioned before, but fully charged shuriken, as far as me, has been majority of the time successfully followed up by a fair once the shuriken launches. Its useful for edgeguarding if landed and as I said, can be followed by dashing then fair'ing. This generally works for me on 50%+ but not too high as the launch from shuriken will be too great to follow up.
A well placed fully charged shuriken used on opponents recovering with high percentages can lead to a kill off the top corner as well. I've gotten a number of people like this. You can also fully charge one, and chase it down. If it connects, you can grab them before they receive any knockback and follow with a uthrow-uair.

I've been doing nair-jab more recently but I still don't find it that suitable for approaches.
 

mightychir

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#40
A well placed fully charged shuriken used on opponents recovering with high percentages can lead to a kill off the top corner as well. I've gotten a number of people like this. You can also fully charge one, and chase it down. If it connects, you can grab them before they receive any knockback and follow with a uthrow-uair.

I've been doing nair-jab more recently but I still don't find it that suitable for approaches.
Wow I just tried chasing down + grab. Didn't really think there was enough timing before it launches. Awesome tip thanks.

And yea I get you but I mainly use it for mix ups to keep my aerial game varied. I personally don't like approaching as much with his other aerials while in the air. Of course thats personal preference haha. How do you approach aerially?
 
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