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Q&A Tips & Answers from a Passing Ninja - Greninja Q&A Thread

Spirst

 
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
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3,474
Wow I just tried chasing down + grab. Didn't really think there was enough timing before it launches. Awesome tip thanks.

And yea I get you but I mainly use it for mix ups to keep my aerial game varied. I personally don't like approaching as much with his other aerials while in the air. Of course thats personal preference haha. How do you approach aerially?
Yeah, it's pretty cool. The water shuriken is amazing for follow ups.

I've been trying SH bairs for general poking. Greninja seems to be a little eh when approaching aerially. His nair isn't spectacular and his fair has too much lag to be viable for actual approaches. The bair has some more ending lag in comparison to the nair but I feel like it covers you more.
 

mightychir

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Yeah, it's pretty cool. The water shuriken is amazing for follow ups.

I've been trying SH bairs for general poking. Greninja seems to be a little eh when approaching aerially. His nair isn't spectacular and his fair has too much lag to be viable for actual approaches. The bair has some more ending lag in comparison to the nair but I feel like it covers you more.
Ah I see. I tried SH bairs and I can follow up with dash attack > fair. Need to practice SH bair'ing a little more execution.

And Spirst do you mind some friendlies? Or anyone else reading this. I haven't really played against a solid Greninja yet and would love to do some dittos for learning. I really love Greninja's playstyle and want to continue developing
 

Spirst

 
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Messages
3,474
Ah I see. I tried SH bairs and I can follow up with dash attack > fair. Need to practice SH bair'ing a little more execution.

And Spirst do you mind some friendlies? Or anyone else reading this. I haven't really played against a solid Greninja yet and would love to do some dittos for learning. I really love Greninja's playstyle and want to continue developing
Yeah, I'll play. I can't stay too long though seeing as how I'm off to bed in about a half hour or so.
 

CHOMPY

Sinbad: King of Sindria
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I've been struggling to win a game against a really good Little Mac player. I know that the way to beat him is simply by edge guarding him, since his recovery is awful. Trouble is getting him off the stage is the difficult part. Trying to fight him on the stage is really difficult, especially when you try to either pivot grab him or pivot smash/tilt. Otherwise, you jet jabbed in the face. Whenever I recover back on stage to grab the ledge, I get hit by his dtilt or dsmash every single time, and its really frustrating to take unnecessary hits like that.

Any suggestions on how I should approach Little Mac and how to recover back on stage?

I feel like the matchup is 30/70 Little Macs favor, unless someone can miraculously defeat Little Mac in a tournament.

A character that seems simple to fight, but really hard to beat.
 
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Sosuke

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recover from the bottom, i never get hit trying to recover against mac

also throw a lot more projectiles is pretty much the only advice i have for approaching. try to bait things.
 

Spirst

 
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Messages
3,474
For Little Mac, you can't rush him down like you can for some other characters. I find that punishing with grabs and baiting his counter makes this matchup a lot more manageable. For the KO punch, I typically stall with shurikens to run the timer down. At a certain point, they usually get pretty desperate for it to connect and leave themselves open. Try some fake-outs like small empty fastfallen shorthops to see if he tries anything but don't make it a habit of approaching Mac aerially since he's pretty good at punishing that landing lag. Also, as said above, don't recover high against Mac. Recover low and sweetspot the ledge for the invincibility frames. They'll usually be waiting near the edge and will typically charge you when you get on stage so make sure you're in a safe position. When he's off stage, it's pretty much easy pickings. If you go off after him, he'll usually try to counter since that brings him closer to the stage but it won't have any effect on a hydropump. Shurikens will come on handy for this matchup since he doesn't do well against projectiles. Learn to wavebounce/pivot the shurikens for best effect.
 

Jmacz

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Noobish question, what is the tech I do in this gif and how do I actually do it because it was a total accident. Whatever it is when I did the quick dash turnaround into an instant dsmash.

https://gfycat.com/PaleAdmirableCapeghostfrog

I feel like that's one of those things I need to learn like teching my landings that will make me a lot better.
 

Spirst

 
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
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Noobish question, what is the tech I do in this gif and how do I actually do it because it was a total accident. Whatever it is when I did the quick dash turnaround into an instant dsmash.

https://gfycat.com/PaleAdmirableCapeghostfrog

I feel like that's one of those things I need to learn like teching my landings that will make me a lot better.
Maybe I'm missing something and need to slow it down, but it looks like you did a dash-roll-dsmash.
 

Sosuke

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why does no one ever use this thread
 

Spirst

 
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Because people like to ask stuff in every other thread aside from the one dedicated to asking stuff.
 

Gunla

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Because people like to ask stuff in every other thread aside from the one dedicated to asking stuff.
True, I guess that does occur on occasion...

It's always here for question asking and question answering, and questions are always welcome. Knowledge is power!
 
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BatShark

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 30, 2014
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146
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NorCal
What do you folks find are some good options for ledgeguarding from the stage?

Assuming you weren't able to gimp with aerials or shurikens and they are now hanging off the ledge, what are the options here? I find if I hang back outside of their ledge recovery attack range and just charge a shuriken large enough to hit them, most people just time their invulnerability frames and get back on. Sometimes I'm able to get a quick grab in at that point, but most often people are quick enough to go to another defensive option.

Sometimes I let them get up and catch a roll with a semi-charged up or down smash, but that rarely works more than once or twice against a decent opponent. If they jump I can try to react with an aerial but that just depends on how much and how soon they're air dodging.
 

BigHairyFart

Salty Supreme
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Noobish question, what is the tech I do in this gif and how do I actually do it because it was a total accident. Whatever it is when I did the quick dash turnaround into an instant dsmash.

https://gfycat.com/PaleAdmirableCapeghostfrog

I feel like that's one of those things I need to learn like teching my landings that will make me a lot better.
Looked like a dash dance>roll>D-Smash
 

BatShark

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Man, people complain about this thread not being used to ask questions and my last question goes unanswered/undiscussed for four days now! Shoulda made a thread.
 

Kikaioh

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What do you folks find are some good options for ledgeguarding from the stage?
I think once their invincibility frames are gone you can also do a dash forward attack, and it can hit them while they're holding onto the ledge. Sometimes I'll do that right after I throw a big shuriken, and try to time it to where they think they can wait for the shuriken to pass overhead (which is where their eyes are) and since I'll be dashing in pursuit of the shuriken they might not catch the forward dash attack until it's too late and it connects. At least I think, I'm working from memory.
 

BatShark

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I think once their invincibility frames are gone you can also do a dash forward attack, and it can hit them while they're holding onto the ledge. Sometimes I'll do that right after I throw a big shuriken, and try to time it to where they think they can wait for the shuriken to pass overhead (which is where their eyes are) and since I'll be dashing in pursuit of the shuriken they might not catch the forward dash attack until it's too late and it connects. At least I think, I'm working from memory.
I wouldn't expect to catch anyone competent with the dash attack, they'd just time the recovery attack or their climb onto the stage. Dash attack chasing the shuriken might do the trick though, I've noticed the big shuriken almost always prompts their recovery. Does it have decent priority over ledge recovery attacks?
 

RidleyDX

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Messages
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I'am just wondering if this is know, but Greninja can cancel the landing lag of an air dodge with shadow sneak. Just a neat little tidbit if someone tries to punish you for an air dodge too low to the ground.
 
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Kikaioh

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I wouldn't expect to catch anyone competent with the dash attack, they'd just time the recovery attack or their climb onto the stage. Dash attack chasing the shuriken might do the trick though, I've noticed the big shuriken almost always prompts their recovery. Does it have decent priority over ledge recovery attacks?
Ah yes actually, I tend to find the shuriken is good for encouraging a reaction from the opponent on the ledge, you can hang back and shoot off a shuriken and if they've already lost the invincibility they'll feel more inclined to try and recover or avoid it, which can give options for rushing in for a grab or attacking an aerial recovery. Shooting off shurikens at different charge levels can be good also (a shorter charge for a feint to rush in, a longer charge if they're not expecting it, etc.), I usually try to space myself so that I'm generally about as far away as possible from the ledge when throwing the shuriken (usually first charging after a forward jump/hop through the air to give more time to the charge when following the opponent towards the ledge), I find it's a safer place to be and gives more space for reacting to the opponent.

I'm unfortunately not sure if the forward dash has decent priority or not, I imagine it's relative to the damage levels though I'm not sure, actually I usually try to time it where I can hit them when they're still holding onto the ledge and aren't recovering, but I try to space out how often I use certain moves to keep a good mix, so I think for me maybe it's one of those instances when I'm trying to catch an opponent off guard.

It's hard for me to recount for certain though, I kind of play instinctually so I have a better sense while I'm playing maybe, my gut seems to think that's the case though, it might be worth looking into.
 
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NocturnalQuill

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Apr 10, 2014
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I want to start learning Greninja as a secondary, but I have no idea where to start. Are there any good guides to get me started?
 

Funkermonster

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How to do the Dair spike and the input for it? I was only ever able to do it once ortwice on accident since I don't understand it.
 

UTSmash

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Greninja is great. I've found that little Mac is extremely easy to beat on "for glory" by simply throwing small shurikan when there's distance between little mac and Greninja which forces them to roll to Greninja in which case you can read and chase them to follow up with a grab, etc.
 

SoulessAngel64

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as a the best greninja main I've ever fought, I find his sliding up smash better than anyone else's, and great for alot of things. Sorry if I got the term for that wrong. I made the term I used for it up hahaha. Also he's shadow sneak is amazing
 

Funkermonster

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Greninja is great. I've found that little Mac is extremely easy to beat on "for glory" by simply throwing small shurikan when there's distance between little mac and Greninja which forces them to roll to Greninja in which case you can read and chase them to follow up with a grab, etc.
He doesn't need to roll, Mac can just shield the tiny shurikens and then simply walk towards you after each one, then things get rough with his ftilt, jab, and smashes once he gets in. While I agree that Greninja has a favorable match against Little Mac, most Macs on For Glory aren't even that good and tons of people spam rolls when there are better options. I don't think you've been facing a LM player who is actually good, doing that wouldn't work on one who knows what he's doing and you'd porbably get killed for doing that since his ground game is demonic.

I believe he is also able to just destroy the small shurikens simply by jabbing them too, so that tells another story. If a mac sees you charging up a shuriken, I think he can also just plow through it and hit him with his wn SideB/Jolt Haymaker since Greninja can't store any projectile charges.
 

Judo777

Smash Master
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Sep 9, 2008
Messages
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Greninja seems to be able to punish jabs on hit by vectoring into the floor and mashing jabs. Everyone else can vector into the floor and block on rapid jabs, but Greninja is the only one i have seen who can jab you in the middle of your jabs (and not just rapid jabs it seems). Can anyone shed light on this mechanic for me? Is there a way to prevent this ( a certain percent to not jab at, or only using specific ones like jab 1). It's annoying that he can punish peoples successful close range options lol
 

Spirst

 
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
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Greninja seems to be able to punish jabs on hit by vectoring into the floor and mashing jabs. Everyone else can vector into the floor and block on rapid jabs, but Greninja is the only one i have seen who can jab you in the middle of your jabs (and not just rapid jabs it seems). Can anyone shed light on this mechanic for me? Is there a way to prevent this ( a certain percent to not jab at, or only using specific ones like jab 1). It's annoying that he can punish peoples successful close range options lol
Yep, I've been able to do this when getting jabbed by Falcon though I haven't tried it with other characters. If this is applicable for the entirety of the roster, this is big. I'll have to test this out later.
 

bajisci

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558
Yep, I've been able to do this when getting jabbed by Falcon though I haven't tried it with other characters. If this is applicable for the entirety of the roster, this is big. I'll have to test this out later.
Yea it works on a ton of people, Ike and ZSS are some off the top of my head.
 

Jmacz

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I'am just wondering if this is know, but Greninja can cancel the landing lag of an air dodge with shadow sneak. Just a neat little tidbit if someone tries to punish you for an air dodge too low to the ground.
Holy crap I love your signature.

OT: I've had the jab thing happen to me to, I don't think it works against Little Mac though.
 

IwearSILLYhats

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Yep, I've been able to do this when getting jabbed by Falcon though I haven't tried it with other characters. If this is applicable for the entirety of the roster, this is big. I'll have to test this out later.
It's not just jabs either. I've been able to stop a Ness from grabbing me by jabbing in between damage tics from PK Fire.
 

Ecol

Smash Rookie
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Oct 20, 2014
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Substitute seems to go through stages? Whenever I use it while recovering from below off the edge, if I hold the direction diagonally, I seem to go inside the corner of the stage.
 

Meta651

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As Greninja how I approach Rosalina and what attack I should use to punish her? I'm having a lot of troubles connecting hits and approaching, also Luma is annoying as hell...
 

Jmacz

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As Greninja how I approach Rosalina and what attack I should use to punish her? I'm having a lot of troubles connecting hits and approaching, also Luma is annoying as hell...
What I like to do is try and keep my distance and bait out a charge shot so I can jump over it and dash attack Luma knocking her off the stage most of the time. Most will catch on to this and keep luma close, but if you're able to get in close you can usually do some damage. Ever since I started doing this I stopped losing to ever Rosalina I face, now the ones that beat me whoop me just as bad without Luma as with her.
 

Sosuke

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i just run up and grab or dash attack
 
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