Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

[T-block]

Forgot to mention that I think the Swiss wagon is silly.

Let's lynch Ran.

 

[Reyth]

Ya I disagree with Ran's push on you T-Block. I just think Ran could be verified in ways other than by lynching. His role could easily be a scum role in my eyes but it is probably more likely a town role imo.

I think it is strange how Ran's activity has dropped. That actually began as soon as suspicion started being thrown his way.

@July: You have a 100% town read on Ran -- what do you think about his strange lack of activity?

 

[T-block]

There are better cop choices than Ran, if that's what you're suggesting. Cop Swiss. Confirmed town Swiss is probably much stronger than confirmed town Ran, isn't it?

Reyth, are you willing to vote Ran toDay?

 

[Reyth]

Upon checking, Ran's scum list also sucks imo. I definitely don't like Ran here but his claim has given me pause.

But I mean looking at KK and July I don't like their list either for the most part.

This is just a weird game.

 

[Reyth]

No I am not willing to lynch Ran today, sorry. If I had definite problems with his claim I would be voting him today but as it is his claim is more likely to be town than scum imo.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Upon checking, Ran's scum list also sucks imo. I definitely don't like Ran here but his claim has given me pause.

But I mean looking at KK and July I don't like their list either for the most part.

This is just a weird game.

One last time, just because someone has a different scum-read/list then you does not make them scum. Get it into your head.

Swiss wagon is bad and I heavily dislike it. Also Ran push won't go anywhere.

 

[T-block]

fffuuuu-

Do you guys realize you are clearing Ran by trying to meta Overswarm as a mod? Do I even need to say how bad of an idea that is? I've seen town-aligned miller mafia-NK-immune able-to-force-one-person-to-vote-a-certain-way the next day from him. As someone else brought up earlier, maybe Ran isn't telling us the whole story. Maybe he has restrictions as to when he can use it, or who can be his targets. Maybe once he uses it the entire scum team becomes mafia goons. We don't know. Moreover, just because it's easily provable doesn't mean we need to believe it. What if he as scum says he's going to restrict the lynch pool to Townie A and Townie B, claims he was roleblocked, and then uses that fact to try to push a lynch on A or B? Are we still going to say he doesn't have the balls to fakeclaim that?

And let me repeat myself: the fact that his claim is provable does not mean he is town. Saying that his role is too strong to be scum is also not valid, because we don't know the whole story. In SMRPG, Axem Rangers (scum JoaT) had an ability where the target would be told they had been granted one-shot bulletproof, but it was a lie. We would have used it to claim a town role that can grant one-shot BP. Simple as that. Don't make assumptions.

If it weren't for the claim, you would vote him?

 

[T-block]

Ran push won't go anywhere?

Reyth -- Nich, PLSD

Ran -- SK, Tblock, Nabe, Degray

Nich -- Nabe, PLSD

KK/July -- Nabe, PLSD, DeGrey/Zen, Tblock

Grey -- Nich, PLSD, Swiss, JPG, TBlock

SK -- Nabe, Ranmaru, Jpg , PLSD

T-block -- Ran, JPG, PLSD

VG.jpg -- Ranmaru/PLSD, DeGrey, Swiss, SK

Nabe -- Nich, VG, SK, PTSD, July, KK, Swiss, Ran, Zen

Zen is willing to vote Ran too.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

TB however does bring up a good point in showing the flaws in your logic Reyth. Clearing Ran based off his claim is baaaaaad. Now why won't you vote Nabe? You keep saying he's town but you don't explain why.

Reyth, answer Nich's challenge now since you are being so stubborn. Show us why we shouldn't want to lynch Nabe.

@Nichy-boy: I'm all for joining in a voting block with you but I need to talk some things over with the manly side since he has been carrying us for a bit.

@TB: .....that's only 4 votes. How do you hope to fufill the conditions to meet a lynch?

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Also to mention SK is with us on the Nabey needs to die train of thought and will probably stay there over Ran when push comes to shove.

Logically, a Ran lynch is not in the cards for toDay's lynch.

Which we should acquire since we are on pg 65 and I am so done with this day I just want a flip.

 

[Reyth]

Ya I would be voting Ran if it wasn't for the claim. July linked to a wiki or something that showed Kirk and Star Trek as time travel related. I would like to see that link again... Anyone have it?

I am a disco man and it seems I will always disagree with KK. :'(

I could quote reams of posts for you that show you where I like Nabe's town thought processes and it boggles my mind that it isn't obvious to you.

 

[Reyth]

We have more votes for Nich than for Nabe and the Nich wagon doesn't appear to be happening, so who's being unrealistic here KK?

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

You disagree with facts based on your flippant conjecture. Most of your reasonings for things are just flippant and weak when battled against others and show they mostly revolve around gut.

If it is SOOOOOOOO obvious like you say, then show us. Otherwise, I have no reason to believe you if you just say "Nabe's town." and that's it. Others have expressed extreme concern in him and would like his lynch.

And looking at your "list", no you don't lol. Nabe>Nich in votes, especially when you consider Ran's double vote for Nabe when the time comes.

 

[T-block]

KK, why are you trying to bully people out of lynching Ran? You just keep dismissing the push as never going to happen, in the hopes of making it so that nobody will even consider it? Why are you defending Ran this way instead of showing how the points against him are bad? I love how you say logically a Ran lynch isn't in the cards - yet you're still sure that my lynch is?

 

[T-block]

2169 does a pretty good job of answering Nich's challenge in itself lol

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

And by "expressed concern" I mean they have actually shown why the find him to be scummy, yet you just sit in your corner chanting, "Nabe's obvtown! I know it guys!" without backing up your point and thinking everyone should just go with you.

Also! If I deem your explanation of NabeTown to be weak and solely based around gut/WIFOM on these so called "town-vibes", I'm going to ignore it. However I really am curious to see where you are coming from with this NabeTown thing.

I would also like to see your SwissScum case besides this dumb-dumb-dumb push on his activity, if anyone is getting lynched on activity we are lynching PLSD. There is no reason to believe Swiss is scum besides this train of thought that he is actively coasting and not just busy. The logic behind his push has flaws. Someone better destroy his posts if you want his lynch.

 

[T-block]

Ya I would be voting Ran if it wasn't for the claim. July linked to a wiki or something that showed Kirk and Star Trek as time travel related. I would like to see that link again... Anyone have it?

I am a disco man and it seems I will always disagree with KK. :'(

I could quote reams of posts for you that show you where I like Nabe's town thought processes and it boggles my mind that it isn't obvious to you.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Time_travel_episodes

Nothing to say about 2567?

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

KK, why are you trying to bully people out of lynching Ran? You just keep dismissing the push as never going to happen, in the hopes of making it so that nobody will even consider it? Why are you defending Ran this way instead of showing how the points against him are bad? I love how you say logically a Ran lynch isn't in the cards - yet you're still sure that my lynch is?

I haven't brought up your lynch in a couple hundred posts plus I was really behind in this game that I didn't realize your lynch isn't happening and after Vandy/July telling me a few things I agree to their train of thought on a TB leaning town vibe.

Bully people? Far from it, but someone needs to take a firm stance and show what is going to happen because this game is a bunch of people just scrambling every which way for just a lynch. How is anyone gonna come to an agreement on this?

======

I need to talk to Vandy/July but I am willing to build a bridge. It seems we all have a common interest in getting rid of PLSD, would people be willing to head that way for a D1 lynch we can actually all agree to? (even the player slot itself would like to be lynched the last I read from that slot) PLSD is in our scum-picks so we would like to lynch them as well. Need to go over a few things the next time I catch Vandy/July when I am not busy with theatre or dealing with other games.

Think this over please.

 

[Reyth]

Ok you are right. With Ran's double vote it puts you guys over the top.

Ok the time has come to learn how to ISO itt. Somebody tell me how to ISO Nabe and I will give you guys why this wagon is so derp.

 

[Reyth]

On 2567 I already responded: If it wasn't for the claim I would be voting Ran.

 

[T-block]

And I'm trying to show you why that's garbaaaaaaage. Are you going to get him to prove his role then? If so, when do you want him to do it? Remember that even with town directing the role, it still puts us in a bad position the next Day, since we are unable to adjust our plan to new Night information. Are you going to do it later in the game? Mislynches hurt more later in the game, and we lose information as to who was on what wagon, which is crucial in late game. Are you going to do it earlier? We don't have information to direct that role, and are more likely to be leading scum to a free mislynch. So what's your proposition? When are we going to make him prove this? Have you ever considered that scum made up a role so anti-town that he wouldn't have to prove it?

 

[T-block]

I haven't brought up your lynch in a couple hundred posts plus I was really behind in this game that I didn't realize your lynch isn't happening and after Vandy/July telling me a few things I agree to their train of thought on a TB leaning town vibe.

Bully people? Far from it, but someone needs to take a firm stance and show what is going to happen because this game is a bunch of people just scrambling every which way for just a lynch. How is anyone gonna come to an agreement on this?

======

I need to talk to Vandy/July but I am willing to build a bridge. It seems we all have a common interest in getting rid of PLSD, would people be willing to head that way for a D1 lynch we can actually all agree to? (even the player slot itself would like to be lynched the last I read from that slot) PLSD is in our scum-picks so we would like to lynch them as well. Need to go over a few things the next time I catch Vandy/July when I am not busy with theatre or dealing with other games.

Think this over please.

Wtf that was a very fast flip from all three of you...

I agree it's been quite the scramble. The way you're saying "Ran lynch isn't happening, don't even talk about it" isn't helping though.

As for PLSD, do you have reasons for him being scum other than activity? He's null to me... wouldn't mind lynching him obviously, but I'd much rather see a scum pick go.

Also, why is Zen on your lynch list?

 

[Reyth]

I think its better to prove Ran at night. I think his claim would indicate he is more likely to be town than scum even though scum is possible. It isn't necessary that he use his power at all.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Nich:

1) I was waiting for the accusation that Nabe, myself and Grey were scum. I just knew that was going to show up.

Why?

2) Swiss is active lurking which is a scum tell
2a) A scum tell is NOT defined as something only scum do but INSTEAD as something that scum will tend to do MORE OFTEN than town.
2b) More on Swiss below

Let's use Nabe's patented "Look at it from both sides" deal. Suppose Swiss is town. Is it really that ridiculous to think he might be behind on a 2500+ post D1?

3) I read your post about Nabe vs. Swiss and I disagree. At this point Swiss has become an active lurker and Nabe is nowhere near that at all.

And, active lurking is NOT my accusation against Nabe!

4) I mean you can read just about every post from Nabe and see that he is scum hunting; I mean just read the content, it is full of scum hunting thought processes. That is why I disagree with your case.
4a) Besides Nabe is my scum buddy and I don't want him lynched.
4b) Dittos for Grey

Give me the quotes or shut up. I've read his posts, that's not scum hunting. The questions he asks are decent, I won't deny that, but he doesn't do anything with the answers, he's asking the questions just to ask the questions and appear townie.

Now for why the Swiss Love Fail Train is the place to be:


This is why I sheep Grey here. Swiss is at active lurker status now so he has some 'splainin to do!

This is the Love Train!! C'mon join in!!!

That's it? Ryker might be that stupid, but you aren't, Reyth.

@Nich: On Nabe, he pushed SK early for their reaction to my mechanics post.

You can barely call it a push, yes, he questions SK, even mentions he dislike's Soup's answers, but he never does anything with it. He just lets the issue drop, and though he keeps SK as a token scum read in his occasional scum list (when asked for it, of course), he never actually pushes it. Next.

Pushes Nich hard.

This I admit is the exception to the rule. It was necessary for him to make some case due to activity reasons. He'd been inactive for a few days, he needed a big catch up post, and a case on everyone's #1 dumb/scum pick was an easy safe way to do that.

Pressures Swiss to answer his questions. More recently, gets on me several times to ensure I answer his questions. Follows up by asking me for my second scum pick.

So you think he's town because he asks questions and wants answers to said questions? What would you do if I spent the entire game asking people for their scum reads but never actually gave any of my own? Would you think I was town for that?

Throughout the game, he's been asking questions and stating dislikes for posts/points.

This is true. It's also not scum hunting. Let me try it.

I dislike the Swiss wagon
I dislike Nabe
I dislike Degrey
I like Kawaii
I like SK

That is not scum hunting. Any idiot could fake that. Let me show you the scum hunting equivalent.

The Swiss wagon is scummy because the only reason to get on him is inactivity, and that has been done much worse by PLSD. Even the supposed "active lurking" bit (which there is no proof of) could be said of Zen for instance.

Nabe is scummy because of (See any of my posts)

Degrey is scummy because I dislike his push on Swiss and his general lack of scum hunting, though it might just be Ryker choking on his own ego.

Kawaii and SK are townie for going against the grain on the Nabe wagon, general good play with scum hunting, and not jumping on the easy Swiss wagon.

The first example is un-arguable because there's no reasoning. You can't take issue with someone giving an unexplained town read unless you get WHY first. Nabe never gives the "why" for his reads. For example, I've asked him at least 3 times to substantiate his VG-scum read, and he still hasn't done it.

Maybe he hasn't said "that answer is scummy, i want his lynch" (although he has when talking about you) because he hasn't received any answers that make him think that?

So he never got anything noteworthy aside from his one scum read on me through 2500 posts? That's more than some full games. I'm not buying it.

Look at Ran's request in 2379, asking Reyth for his thoughts on KK's 2361. Reyth goes into quite a bit of detail, but Ran doesn't bring up the issue back up at all. Are you going to get on his case for that?

Only if it becomes a trend. If Ran did nothing but ask questions, fail to follow up on the answers, and only actually gave his own stances (without reasoning) when asked for them, then yes, I'd gladly get on his case.

Even then, in 2306 he says he wants vg dead for open hydra disagreement. Look at 2169. I think you are selectively ignoring posts to fit your read on Nabe. Also, is it really fair to say "show me where he's been scumhunting/pushing... oh, and the push on me doesn't count"?

I think 2306 is worthy of bringing up the quote in.

Overt hydra disagreement? I'd actually be really content to see you fry.


Why?

If THAT'S the best you can do to show him scum hunting, then I want to kill him even more. 2169 isn't impressive either. Take a look at the quote yourself.

T-block, there was something you told me to remind you to respond to but I don't remember what it was. Do you?


So in your opinion, posting full read lists is a strong standard town play?

PTSD is posting. DeGrey, are they scum?


Hey now, I don't appreciate you muscling in on my turf.


Gross.


1990 points out an odd inconsistency in SK's claim but I assume it turns out to be true, given the thread title. Good that you see it though, I didn't.


? ? ? ?


Do this now.


2012, X1 still mackin' my turf


What???

Is the countdown necessary for your role?


"1x" implies a song moving forward at normal speed, i.e. plain Song of Time which you say does something else. Iffy.

I dislike his recent behaviour quite a bit actually (calls me "just wrong" about Ran, but when asked about it, only defends Ran with meta; his hop on the Swiss wagon is kinda gross), but it's not going to put him as a top scum read yet.

Would you lynch him if the alternative was a no-lynch? What wagons would you pick over him?

Can we just lynch Ran and be done with the day? :D We have five people willing to vote him IIRC. wrt Ran, he had a super strong scum read on vg.jpg until 2237, where he says he's getting a "BIT better", doesn't say much else about him, and then suddenly doesn't list vg as a lynch possibility for him. Jumps on my wagon in 2284, citing the reasoning that we need a flip. This wouldn't be so bad since he did say earlier that he would vote me at the deadline for a flip (it was nowhere near the deadline at 2284 though), but then in 2302 he says after July's post against me he is more than willing to lynch me... July's post brought nothing new to the table - it was the standard "T-block has been floating on his reads etc etc". Why is he more willing to lynch me after July's post, and doesn't that suggest he didn't have any reason to be voting me earlier? He also adds that he can double vote me, but only if needed. Might be some restriction on his double voting ability, so I won't make too big a deal out of it, but this could be Ran being too careful. His activity level has also dropped significantly... could it be because people have been showing desire to lynch him?

I don't see Ran as scummy, really. Your reasoning is basically that he changed his mind on a couple of his reads? Look, Nabe didn't even have Swiss in his scumlist, but he happily hopped on that wagon. (And Nabe already had no less than 6 "Will lynch this guy" reads!) Here's the quote.

MY READS IMPORTANT UPDATE (August 1st 2011, 15:50:07 E.S.T.)

Will be pushing: Nich
If Nich suddenly becomes a clear: VG, SK
Would vote at deadline / dirtbags: PTSD, T-block, Ran
Also: Swiss
Town: Other people
Zen: Zen

Note: formal write-up to follow under order of King Nich Nich (oops, wrong game)

 

[Reyth]

Dang Nich your posts are really making sense now. Its like after the 10th time repeating it, your case starts to look good.

I don't think voting for Nabe is "going against the grain" though.

Look I need to ISO Nabe, how do I do it?

 

[T-block]

I think its better to prove Ran at night. I think his claim would indicate he is more likely to be town than scum even though scum is possible. It isn't necessary that he use his power at all.

Why? What makes you want to keep Ran alive? What are you going to do when Swiss claims a power role (likely going to be better than Ran's as well)? I have more confidence in townSwiss being able to catch scum than townRan being able to catch scum, don't you?

 

[Reyth]

I would be willing to vote Ran over Nabe.

 

[videogames.jpg]

On a side note, at over 2550 posts we are only about 200 away from having more posts on D1 than the entirety of Newbie Mafia 13 and Gurren Lagen Mafia, both of which are finished.

I hope you're not happy about this because it's kind of a nightmare

Nabe - Nicholas1024, Kawaii Kangaroo, SoupaKatamari,

smelly wagon.

Swiss - Degrey, Videogames.jpg, Reyth, Nabe,

Sexy wagon.

 

[T-block]

Man, I knew you were going to draw up some stupid wall in response to that. I'm not going to respond to everything.

This I admit is the exception to the rule. It was necessary for him to make some case due to activity reasons. He'd been inactive for a few days, he needed a big catch up post, and a case on everyone's #1 dumb/scum pick was an easy safe way to do that.

So when he doesn't push people, he's scummy, and when he does push people, you find some other reason to call him scummy. I just don't see a point in pushing him for not scumhunting, and then ignoring his interaction with the player he's pushed the hardest.

So you think he's town because he asks questions and wants answers to said questions? What would you do if I spent the entire game asking people for their scum reads but never actually gave any of my own? Would you think I was town for that?


This is true. It's also not scum hunting. Let me try it.

I like how you pick out each individual thing and attack it, when it's only part of the bigger picture I'm trying to paint lol

The first example is un-arguable because there's no reasoning. You can't take issue with someone giving an unexplained town read unless you get WHY first. Nabe never gives the "why" for his reads. For example, I've asked him at least 3 times to substantiate his VG-scum read, and he still hasn't done it.

He thinks VG is scum for stating hydra disagreement in the thread, which he feels is staged (2306), and because he disagrees with VG's logic behind that claim discussion with DG (2251). Wasn't that hard to find.

So he never got anything noteworthy aside from his one scum read on me through 2500 posts? That's more than some full games. I'm not buying it.

Only if it becomes a trend. If Ran did nothing but ask questions, fail to follow up on the answers, and only actually gave his own stances (without reasoning) when asked for them, then yes, I'd gladly get on his case.

I think 2306 is worthy of bringing up the quote in.



If THAT'S the best you can do to show him scum hunting, then I want to kill him even more. 2169 isn't impressive either. Take a look at the quote yourself.

Umm...okay, let's get something straight. My post was in response to your challenge in 2506. You say there's no ""Alright, that answer was scummy and we should lynch this guy because of it"", and I'm trying to show that there is. He's not going to follow-up on every question, because not every question is going to lead to an answer that he finds scummy. The quotes (not found via ISO btw, but just a quick skim of some of his posts... I'm sure I could find better, but I'm not going to waste my time on it) show that there are times when he does outright say "this is scummy".

Would you lynch him if the alternative was a no-lynch? What wagons would you pick over him?

Yes, I would rather lynch him than no-lynch. Ran, vg, PLSD, DG, Nich are people I would lynch before Nabe.

I don't see Ran as scummy, really. Your reasoning is basically that he changed his mind on a couple of his reads? Look, Nabe didn't even have Swiss in his scumlist, but he happily hopped on that wagon. (And Nabe already had no less than 6 "Will lynch this guy" reads!) Here's the quote.

Nabe actually does have Swiss scum lean in 2348.

In any case, no, that is not my reasoning -_- What was just presented, that his reads lightly contradict his earlier stances (along with currently being pretty wishy-washy) is only additional substance to my case. Rest of it is in 1762 and 2434.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Reyth
Start by clicking the number of posts right by the thread title (when viewing the DGames sub forum). That should bring up a list of people with numbers by their names (their post count in-thread), click the one by Nabe's name.

So when he doesn't push people, he's scummy, and when he does push people, you find some other reason to call him scummy. I just don't see a point in pushing him for not scumhunting, and then ignoring his interaction with the player he's pushed the hardest.

I'm giving the scum reasoning for his case on me, it was an attempt to look townie. I haven't actually been calling him scummy for his case on me (initially, his later pushes on me have been pretty bad.)

I want you to answer the question, if someone (who had been a background contributed while active), was behind for a couple days (which were moving VERY rapidly), then caught up and had NOTHING new despite several hundred new posts of info, what would you think?

I like how you pick out each individual thing and attack it, when it's only part of the bigger picture I'm trying to paint lol

It's my style, I answer every single point whenever possible. Besides, if you eliminate all the individual things, there is no big picture left, right?

He thinks VG is scum for stating hydra disagreement in the thread, which he feels is staged (2306), and because he disagrees with VG's logic behind that claim discussion with DG (2251). Wasn't that hard to find.



Umm...okay, let's get something straight. My post was in response to your challenge in 2506. You say there's no ""Alright, that answer was scummy and we should lynch this guy because of it"", and I'm trying to show that there is. He's not going to follow-up on every question, because not every question is going to lead to an answer that he finds scummy. The quotes (not found via ISO btw, but just a quick skim of some of his posts... I'm sure I could find better, but I'm not going to waste my time on it) show that there are times when he does outright say "this is scummy".

That's quite a claim, T-block, so allow me a question. Why is it that when I've pushed Nabe about this, he himself admitted that he hadn't done any lynch pushes outside of his case with me? Additionally, the point isn't that there's some questions he doesn't follow up, the point is that he rarely if ever follows up ANY questions!

And, even if I were to grant you that example (not going to bother to look up the quotes at the moment), that's hardly a lot of scum hunting (Three lines of reasoning. How many paragraphs and quotes are in just one of my posts against Nabe?), and it still falls under the safe thing. He chimes in late on something that's been already rather extensively discussed (meaning nothing new is likely to come of it), saying that he dislikes one person's side of the issue. And disliking two heads of a hydra disagreeing with each other isn't exactly something anyone would argue about.

Yes, I would rather lynch him than no-lynch. Ran, vg, PLSD, DG, Nich are people I would lynch before Nabe.

Thank you.

Nabe actually does have Swiss scum lean in 2348.

It's not clearly stated. Oh well, more fuel for the safety fire, that means he had SEVEN people he'd be willing to lynch today. Over half the game.

In any case, no, that is not my reasoning -_- What was just presented, that his reads lightly contradict his earlier stances (along with currently being pretty wishy-washy) is only additional substance to my case. Rest of it is in 1762 and 2434.

I'll have to take another look at it sometime, but I don't remember being too impressed.

 

[Reyth]

Ok I ISO'ed Nabe. Thanks for the tip btw.

Basically it just clarified in my mind what I originally thought. I disagree with your premise.

He has been keeping up with the whole game and posting substantively on all current issues. He has showed a positive town-oriented mindset all game long. He HAS been giving his reads throughout the game and I don't really care if someone asked him to or not.

Yes he is tunnelling on you and it IS a valid scum tell. If you don't think he has given enough reasons for his other suspects then ask him about what you are unclear on but I am not going to vote someone that is as active and involved in a positive way as an asset for town as he is and especially not on D1. You are tunnelling on him too and don't ask me which tunnel I would chose to lynch because you already know the answer.

I hold your entire Nabe case as one:

huge strawman​

where the premise is just false and thus completely unjustified. You basically just made up a false criteria which Nabe didn't meet and that is the substance of your case while you ignore the rest of his activity like it didn't exist and shouldn't even be factored in at all. That is MASSIVELY irresponisble and I'm just underwhelmed to say the least.​

Actually I'm almost offended.​

Fine, I AM offended.

At least his tunnel makes cotton-picking sense.

I'm still up for a Nich lynch today if anyone was wondering.​

 

[Reyth]

Hey Nabe the scum QT is down, was that a good enough defense?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Thank you, Reyth, I was unsure about a you-Nabe scumteam. I feel a lot better about my read on you now. I note you still haven't given me those quotes.

 

[Reyth]

I would practically have to quote 75% or more of his ISO. He does all the things I mentioned in over 3/4's of his posts. He is actively participating in a pro-town way and there is no way I'm voting for him today. As I have previously stated, I will vote Ran before I vote him.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

@KK/T-block, something funky is going on here. Here's KK's original point to T-block, an explanation of why Ran's role can't be a scum role.

T-block's response (the underlined serves in response to KK). Block says "these are the ways in which Ran's role could be a scum role".


KK's 2400 responds to 2381 on a different tack, talking about how he's not clearing Ran on mod meta alone, and how he thinks Block's Ran case holds no weight. However, his response doesn't address the issue of whether or not Ran's role could be a scum role. Then, he says this in 2401:

However, the debunking (2400) clearly doesn't deal with the possibility of Ran's role being a scum role. So that point remains unanswered.

Ran's role could be a scum role (why the **** is this an issue?). But it doesn't make ANY SENSE as a scum role. None, zip, nada. Either he's not telling the whole truth or he has claimed something different. Or OS has made a derpy scum team.

By itself I think Ran's role claim is reason enough to NOT lynch him toDay. Because it doesn't make any sense for scum to have that role. If you'd been paying attention, you'd know that we didn't want to lynch ran before his claim at all. He is a strong town read of July's and ourselves, and that is ULTIMATELY why we don't want to lynch him. Because of his play, not of his claim. Him having a role that SCREAMS town is just a useful coincidence.

@2432: You're not on my Town list.

 

[Reyth]

It makes sense as a one-shot scum role properly balanced. SK is an example of a possible balancing. Scum DV is already known to exist.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

1 new post(s) (click to see)

I would of bet my left nut that it was Reyth who posted. Maybe I should side bet my right on Ran's alignment? Any takers? Nah I'm not that confident.

@SK, Kawaii
I think we're seeing eye to eye on all the major points here, I agree the Swiss wagon seems really scummy. I have two questions for you two.

1) Townie voting block? (Just promise me that you aren't an indie, I seem to have a habit of befriending those recently...)

2) What do you think of Reyth's recent play? His early game felt really townie to me, but I'm absolutely despising the way he's defended Nabe and dodged my challenge (with stuff like "Swiss is worse"), and his quick jump on the Swiss wagon without reasoning really feels bad to me.

I've given up on Reyth lol. I'm thinking, maybe, just maybe he'll reevaluate after some flips. I still feel him as townie for the most part. Classic dumb or scum scenario.

We have the numbers for a Nabe lynch. We just need Zen and Swiss to pay attention lol. We'll probably unvote and let DeGrey hammer, because he's made it glaringly obvious that he dies or something if he isn't on the lynch wagon. Maybe he's like Harley in Superheroes lol. I could only dream.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Posturing. Why would you need more questions from me if you'd like me to decisively become the lynch? (fingers crossed suggesting of course that you're set on your vote)

2) Swiss is active lurking which is a scum tell

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

@T-Block: To further address why I (Vand) have dropped you as a play for toDay is generally because I don't see much/enough evidence for you being scum. The original suspicions on you came from July/J (J made the original case on you) and this was back when I was getting my teeth pulled out (I actually had a gut town read from your early back and forth with Nich). When I went to catch up, J told me he thought you were scum so I specifically paid extra attention to your posts as I was catching up. That post where I quoted was stuff I wrote down in my notes when I re read about you, things I found or odd or wanted an explanation for. For the most part you've explained where you're coming from and I can see a possible town motivation on things you've done. So yeah, I decided that the only reason I actually didn't like you was your push on Ran. Which imo doesn't warrant enough for a lynch.

And I'm trying to show you why that's garbaaaaaaage. Are you going to get him to prove his role then? If so, when do you want him to do it? Remember that even with town directing the role, it still puts us in a bad position the next Day, since we are unable to adjust our plan to new Night information. Are you going to do it later in the game? Mislynches hurt more later in the game, and we lose information as to who was on what wagon, which is crucial in late game. Are you going to do it earlier? We don't have information to direct that role, and are more likely to be leading scum to a free mislynch. So what's your proposition? When are we going to make him prove this? Have you ever considered that scum made up a role so anti-town that he wouldn't have to prove it?

I don't know exactly what you mean by proving his role? I can't remember how Ran said he has to activate his role (Iirc it was at Night) but I generally think he shouldn't use it.

If you're worried about him being scum and you want him to "prove and waste" it per se, we could pre determine two targets beforehand. I.e. he could use it ToNight on PLSD and us for example, and everyone just lynches PLSD if the role is legit. I guess scum could night kill us, which might stop his ability or something, but eh I'm not too worried about it.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Your friendship request has been sent to traveling cat.

Who is this btw lol