Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

[Reyth]

Zen, the vote lists are so we can better organized with an impending deadline. NL is not an option.

 

[Reyth]

Nabe has done much more than Swiss, the only reason Swiss gets away with it is through rep and his disarming demeanour

+1

I have liked the content he DID provide but that car just ran out of gas.

 

[Reyth]

 

[Xivii]

Last I recall, Swiss was town.

 

[Reyth]

webster dictionary, 1913
was (page: 1629)
was (?). [as. Wæs, 2d pers. W&aemac;re, 3d pers. Wæs, pl. W&aemac;ron, with the inf. Wesan to be; akin to d. Wezen, imp. Was, ohg. Wesan, imp. Was, g. Wesen, n., a being, essence, war was, icel. Vera to be, imp. Var, goth. Wisan to be, to dwell, to remain, imp. Was, skr. Vas to remain, to dwell. &root;148. Cf. vernacular, wassail, were, v.] the first and third persons singular of the verb be, in the indicative mood, preterit (imperfect) tense; as, i was; he was.

How many characters again?

 

[Nicholas1024]

I think you guys have provided the final proof that you completely misunderstood my argument. You want me to show why Swiss doesn't fit the Nabe-scum model? Fine, let's go to his first big post.

Click the link people.

There's a lot of questions and 1-liners in there, just like there is with Nabe, however the key difference is that Swiss has a scum-read that he actually pursues in there. Kawaii scum and JPG scum were the cases he pushed, and there was actually reasoning. I don't agree with said cases, but the fact is, he made a push to lynch scum. One would expect Nabe to have pushed more scumreads, given that he's been mostly caught up while Swiss has been rather consistently behind (Normally I'd be wary of that sort of thing, but in a game that moves this fast, I'll cut him some slack). However, in one post Swiss pushes more cases then Nabe has ALL BLASTED GAME.

So, here's the case against Swiss as I see it.

1) Swiss is supposedly lurking. As defined by the fact that he's not completely useless like Zen or PLSD (he's providing at least some content), but he's not completely caught up either.
2) See 1.

Yeah, I'm going to have to say the case is dumb. Inactivity by itself is not a scumtell, if you want proof then check my Fire Emblem play. Zen pushed me for basically the EXACT same reasoning (among other dumb stuff), that I made token attempts to stay active but wasn't caught up and commenting on current stuff. (News flash: I was town.)

(And if you want to know why I'm still willing to lynch PLSD if the Nabe wagon falls through, that's because he's more or less said that he's not planning on catching up, and even when he was semi caught-up, there wasn't any scumhunting from his slot.)

So one more time, Swiss has taken stances, given reasons behind said stances, and made pushes on account of those stances. Nabe has not. QED.


@Reyth
Now it's your turn, I want proof of Nabe scumhunting. In short, stances with reasoning, and a push to lynch scum.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Yeah, I'm going to have to say the case is dumb. Inactivity by itself is not a scumtell, if you want proof then check my Fire Emblem play. Zen pushed me for basically the EXACT same reasoning (among other dumb stuff), that I made token attempts to stay active but wasn't caught up and commenting on current stuff. (News flash: I was town.)

Look at myself in Ducktales or KSSU. Look at JTB in Gurren Lagann.

 

[Xivii]

It's not a scum tell.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Look at myself in Ducktales or KSSU. Look at JTB in Gurren Lagann.

So your argument is "I lurked as scum so all lurkers totally are mafia."

By the same brilliant logic, all nazis are human, therefore all humans are nazis.

Seriously, read any of frozen flame's games, lurking is a player-dependant scum tell. (That is, unless a player has an established meta of lurking ONLY when scum, it's not scummy.)

 

[Reyth]

I sheep grey itt!​

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

**** you guys are ********.

Anyone else notice DeGrey just pushing whatever the rest of town wants with out backing it up? First SK now swiss wtf

T block I don't really have much else to say to you other than I disagree with your ran scum case and if you truly feel that way i ask you to explore and elabortae on it further, or quote your iniial reasoning about his question play thing because I don't remember it.

Nabe I don't know what I ignored but it was probably something you said to j or somehig unimportan. I'll look when I get home.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

It's not a scum tell.

Townies do it, but it's anti-town. It helps scum. It is a scum tell.

That isn't why I want Swiss lynched.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

I sheep grey itt!​

Hilarious ninja, Reyth you such a puppet y?

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Townies do it, but it's anti-town. It helps scum. It is a scum tell.

That isn't why I want Swiss lynched.

Back back back it uppppppppp!!!!

 

[Reyth]

I obey grey what can I say?

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Anyone else notice DeGrey just pushing whatever the rest of town wants with out backing it up? First SK now swiss wtf

Really now? Because I totally wasn't the first person to lynch Swiss as someone I was willing to lynch. I totally wasn't the first vote. Swiss was totally the lynch the rest of the town wanted just because Reyth and .JPG, of all people, said something about him.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Quote me an original idea you had that outlines something sxummy about swiss. I double triple super duper dare you!!!!

 

[Reyth]

KK, y u no vote??

 

[Reyth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr45DmZDjSc​

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Quote me an original idea you had that outlines something sxummy about swiss. I double triple super duper dare you!!!!

Why, in heaven's name, would I ever list off what's scummy about Swiss?

 

[Reyth]

A disco man doesn't need reasons!

 

[July]

SK's claim sets me on edge, Grey's doesn't. A couple points of interest:

- I didn't defend Grey at all. My post was probably 100 posts later and it was a catchup post. Also, I don't recall anyone being terribly suspicious of Grey at the time, and certainly not pushing votes on him, so there wasn't anything to defend from, imo.
- Grey's claim could be fake. But it hits a lot of good notes, which is all I had to say about it. It's more believable than SK's on the face, although they're two very different situations. SK's role is partially cleared by OS -- that said, there are still elements of their play I can't reconcile, and their having that role doesn't make me think 'town'.

-But you don't question him at all, you never have and you really haven't considered anyone's opinion on him. You said you were hoping for PLSD and Swiss (I think, too lazy to look it back up) to help you read DeGrey. But now you say that at least one of those is likely scum so you have to do it on your own, but I haven't seen you push him, question him, anything, so it's more the fact that I'm annoyed that I have pushed DeGrey and others have just to get a read on him and you come in with a town read on him and see nothing wrong with his play and I honestly can't see how you got to that conclusion. It feels like you are defending him by writing him off as town or his actions as perfectly acceptable without ever doing anything to gain a solid read on him.

- I disagree, I think that SK's claim is more believable at face value and upon inspection than DeGrey because it's provable, lines up with flavor and is very specific to the flavor claimed, and has already been at least partly, truly mod-confirmed. DeGrey's mod-confirmed information could be information available to them as the town role they claimed or just as easily through a scum role and flavor-wise I'm still not convinced- "know-it-all" could describe any number of mad scientists, researchers, protagonists or antagonists in tv/movies/pop culture, so I'm just not sure where it hits a lot of good notes for you tbh.

This is untrue. Go back and reread; I didn't reject your interpretation, I outlined an alternate one because your response said to me that you weren't looking from any other perspectives. And I recall that you acknowledged that the potential was there, and agreed that you might have to take a step back and reevaluate. That's an attitude I don't see a trace of now (since you're accusing me of out-and-out opposing your POV which isn't the case) which suggests an inconsistency between words and motive.

Kk I do remember this now, and I remember agreeing to try and look more objectively, but I also remember still being peeved that DeGrey was off the radar for most people. Honestly I feel like I'm right and I want to know if I'm right, both my gut and reason have pushed me towards scum DeGrey all game and it still feels like you just didn't give my interpretation much credence. I understand that you wanted me to step back and look at it more objectively at a certain point, it was warranted, but I also dislike that while you told me that I don't get the feeling you ever tried to see my interpretation because you refused to read DeGrey at that point.

I wouldn't expect you to ISO, since you were confident enough to say it out of hand which implies that you have your reasoning well-ordered. It's a fairly large point to make, and I would expect you to defend it more fervently and correctly in your original response, i.e. by listing multiple events when your accusation implied multiple events. This speaks to what Reyth mentioned earlier about you being less thorough than usual; I thought your original response was slippery.

Having doubts on you again.

I'm sorry if it implies that but it wasn't the case; I remember you being a brick wall when it comes to DeGrey and earlier saying that you weren't going to read him, and then when .jpg tries to you telling him he's wrong. It annoyed me, because if you aren't going to read him then how can you tell other people how to read him? That in and of itself wasn't a large point for me, the large point was are you or are you not going to read DeGrey? If not then I wanted to know where your confidence in .jpg's read being wrong came from. If so then really then I wanted to know your read, although it could easily be assumed.

As for me being less thorough, this is a 64 page game, its summer and I'm in two other games; chances of me being as thorough as usual are shot, sorry to say.

Yeah, that's pretty much the reason why I stopped the push on you. Lynching claimed masons on D1 is silly because we don't have night action or flip information... claiming masons as scum is an incredibly risky maneuver, and it would be wrong for me to say I'm confident enough in my D1 read to still go through with the lynch. However, I could see you and KK having the balls to try this, so I'm not going to let this stop me from pushing your lynch in later days, if the evidence points towards it.

Alright, that's not how I would approach it but that's a reasonable reason to look at other options for toDay.

I apologize for the tone of that post. I understand that it's a lot to read through, and that things will be missed, but it's getting frustrating to see you continually bring up points against me that simply aren't true.

Haha no worries :D for reals I've had some pretty *****y posts this game, apologies for that but this game has been ridiculously long and frustrating at points.

Well... if that's what you think, that's what you think. I think KK's case on me is based on weak reasoning, and others have agreed, but you seem to think it's okay there. Do you actually agree with the reasoning, or is it just because it's coming from someone who you have as confirmed town? And I am looking at the motivation behind Ran's actions, and I am still seeing scum. The masonry point is explained above.

I think that KK has valid points in reasons for which you should be looked into. KK and I obviously have different reads but I respect their reads and with my concerns about your early reads being weak and fence-sitty at times I did see their reasoning and I was concerned about your pushes being legit. With Ran, I disagree 100% when it comes to his motivation, I think its town, but I can sympathize.

PLSD, DG, SK, Zen would be my lynch order out of that pool.

PLSD for obvious reasons.

DG hasn't done much at all lately, and I expected a lot more out of them after that first phase. The conversation about the crumbing with vg.jpg was stupid, and I thought it was a waste of time tbh. Other than that, they've been bouncing around and haven't done much scumhunting, so they're off my town list. I would MUCH rather lynch someone else, but I'm not going to refuse to put my vote on him.

SK is so late in the list mostly because of the claim, and the fact that he's basically confirmed as Link (although now that I think about it, it's not a given that Link is town...). I need to see more from them before I can make a solid conclusion based on their actions.

Zen is cool. He's actually already done quite a bit for town, and I hope he manages to catch up.

Hmm...I disagree with your main reads but I can agree with you here, and you have good reasoning as well.

Unvote

You answered everything extremely well, and I'm starting to believe that we might just be on opposite sides of the spectrum with our reads but town intention and scum-hunting is there. There are deff better lynches for toDay.

Out of Nich, Nabe, and PLSD, Nabe is the best lynch imo. Nich has been a pretty strong town read of mine and while he has been majorly focused on Nabe this entire time, I think he's been much more transparent than Nabe. Nabe on the other hand came into the game strong and was very active at first and really getting his hands dirty but in the past 1000 posts he's dropped off from that and has spent a lot of time poking at Nich, and asking some questions but I don't know where he stands right now. PLSD should die but it would be better if they were vigged since they have pretty much no connections and nothing would be gained from their lynch. Of course that's assuming there is a vig, if not then we might have to deal with PLSD inactivity as well tomorrow :-/

Not understanding the Swiss hate, he doesn't post much but when he does he has content and he actually analyzes it, which is more than can be said for PLSD.

KK I need you, where should I put my vote?

 

[Reyth]

Put your vote on the Love Train! :D

 

[Reyth]

I'm going to sleep now but when I wake up I am expecting to see at least a couple more votes on the Happy Train!

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Reyth I don't think I've ever disagreed with someone so heavily and constantly. I'm just going to acknowledge the humour in your posts and laugh .

July/Zen/Swiss/Ran please join the "Team Nabe" wagon . There are seats, sweets and treats for all!! Reyth promises love... but DOES HE HAVE A Thundercougarfalconbird!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cRy_2IgnEg

 

[SoupaKatamari]

^on top of that wii think nabe needs more questioning (that is before he decisively becomes the lynch, which he will fingers crossed... but some details need to be ironed out!)

btw I don't see swiss scum atm. At least not yet - which I suppose worries me because of Discworld, where he did escape me until the Day before the final Day... hmmm... *rereads*

july's posts make us all giddy and excited to see someone with their head screwed on.

As DeGrey said, as a person with mod info about a killer and a target, it isn't strange that he'd look for a crumb.

wii'd like to know how and why you came to understand grey's motives here when he was looking for a victim crumb attracting the flavour of... the killer (?). Wouldn't you agree it would be ever so slightly odd if victims of Jaws cut themselves before swimming in the sea?

my read encompasses your play in-thread which I've found to be more or less garbage.

curiously... had wii actually have died, what would have been your final points against us? You claimed "sparse, null/not very memorable" - that is you couldn't generate information from them as a result. That would have left page 4 as your only strong basis as a scum tell, supported #here and later #here - the claim couldn't have been a factor on your read as it wasn't affective - it didn't exist to you. As such this is an issue wii can agree on with Nich --> your reads look unusually quaint... wii need to assess whether they are deliberately so as if to feign content and get a footing in the game or whether you're simply not putting effort into looking at any of the hundreds of other actions done in-game to reassess, reassure or reform your reads as an insecure/uncertain townie would/should/could/blah blah blah. As a result of all this soup says you're untrustworthy.

going back to this surreal page 4 read btw:

#2312

#168
#172

i mean really? how can your analysis explain why Soup continued to stand by his point if he purposely yielded to yours? It doesn't - well, it does, but not well at all. Our analysis is much cleaner Soup stated multiple times he stands by his points - how can this be taken as tacitly doing the opposite? Do you at the very least understand where my thoughts are coming from concerning Soup? Wii cannot relate to how you see that exchange in the way you do now because it looks like over-analysing, something being shaped into fine bone china (thrown to a brick wall, admittedly )

I outlined an alternate one because your response said to me that you weren't looking from any other perspectives.

I had several problems with the explanation of their claim and still do, which hasn't been acknowledged by SK despite my asking. There's also the early-game encounter I had with Soup which has been hashed pretty thoroughly.

Well... all issues to do with the wording and flavour of our claim comes down to allegations of us lying and the mod's choices. If we were lying, you'd catch us out in a lie. I believe this is simple logic. Song of Time: 1x speed was speculated to not rewind the Day by flavour due to its similarity to the Song of Time... yet it still did. This phenomenon, how can it be explained?

Grey's claim is more believable "on the face"? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. How so exactly?
_

Some questions and thoughts doing the funky chicken on the dance floor atm:

- By measuring our "presence" in this game and using this as a scum tell against us, why didn't you do so similarly with Zen, Swiss and Sex Dance given the times?

- #2252 / #1157 / #1040 / #1170 etc etc etc etc etc - feels like you're grey's PA. this is merely an observation. What was the point in the "supported by" comment? also why is there no doubt about, well, anything? He faked an ability that pertains to the flavour of his claim - he saved jpeg over a questionable crumb - the way he's handled nich toDay. For a player that has spoken to this game in gambits, it feels unnatural that you would simply make utter sense of everything he has done
_

Btw Vanz/July and to a certain extent Grey as he's just that desperate to know - we should talk about what wii should plan to do in twilight - I'm thinking of saving the speed-up until i get at least one scum flip first, that way i can determine trails and maximise efficiency in hitting the scummies (and best case would be 2 consecutively - I've done this before... many times ). I expect good results. As for the "other game" - I have no clue what to expect from this.

 

[SoupaKatamari]

That isn't why I want Swiss lynched.

^explain this to us

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

bahaha okay
Vote: Swiss

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@VG 2507

Anyone else notice DeGrey just pushing whatever the rest of town wants with out backing it up? First SK now swiss wtf

no

Nabe I don't know what I ignored but it was probably something you said to j or somehig unimportan. I'll look when I get home.

 

[Reyth]

I refuse to ride the Derp train!

I will explain why the Love Train is where we need to be when I get back from church.

 

[SoupaKatamari]

The wagon is dirty

Soup cover your eyes

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

SK: Not sure what you're getting at in 2546 but I'm going to attempt a response regardless; have you acknowledged 2312, 2425, or 2432? Could you respond with quotes to those? Our back-and-forth seems to be getting very mixed up.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

But you don't question him at all, you never have and you really haven't considered anyone's opinion on him. You said you were hoping for PLSD and Swiss (I think, too lazy to look it back up) to help you read DeGrey. But now you say that at least one of those is likely scum so you have to do it on your own, but I haven't seen you push him, question him, anything, so it's more the fact that I'm annoyed that I have pushed DeGrey and others have just to get a read on him and you come in with a town read on him and see nothing wrong with his play and I honestly can't see how you got to that conclusion. It feels like you are defending him by writing him off as town or his actions as perfectly acceptable without ever doing anything to gain a solid read on him.

But I feel I've made it very clear how I reached a town read on him. That is to say, by doing absolutely nothing at all. Innocent until proven guilty -- for every time you've said "oh my god what scum", I've thought "but why is she not seeing the ways that he could be town here when there's no reason to consider the options less than equally?" and in several cases I've addressed as much vocally. I'm curious as to why you think I haven't considered others' opinions on him -- whose opinions do you mean?

I disagree, I think that SK's claim is more believable at face value and upon inspection than DeGrey because it's provable, lines up with flavor and is very specific to the flavor claimed, and has already been at least partly, truly mod-confirmed. DeGrey's mod-confirmed information could be information available to them as the town role they claimed or just as easily through a scum role and flavor-wise I'm still not convinced- "know-it-all" could describe any number of mad scientists, researchers, protagonists or antagonists in tv/movies/pop culture, so I'm just not sure where it hits a lot of good notes for you tbh.

Obviously there's been some miscommunication here. By on the face, I mean the following:

Hermione Granger (Harry Potter), town know-it-all (with an explanation that makes sense [and it feels like an OS role])
Link (OoT), town I-don't-remember the title (SK, remind me what it is?)
but actually Link (LoZelda), town etc.
who has three abilities whose names are seemingly wrong.

Of the two, Degrey's is better on the face, in that it's not inherently scummy. There is nothing wrong with DeGrey's claim while there is something very clearly wrong with SK's. Speaking purely of claims, DeGrey's is better, and those are the things that have affected my read. The mod-confirmation of SK's has not; as has been mentioned, what's relevant is that it could be a scum role. Maybe someone stole the ocarina! (Silly but w/e) Or maybe the role has a stipulation that says they can use any in-thread command they want for the role, and that OS will stick to it, sort of an illusion-based power. It doesn't matter -- because alternate explanations exist, what matters is how SK mishandled their claim, and their poor play in total. DeGrey's, on the other hand, is very null -- if they're town, they're telling the truth, and if they're scum it's a lie. If we later get information that tells us it's a lie, then it is. For now there's no reason to believe it's untrue.

Kk I do remember this now, and I remember agreeing to try and look more objectively, but I also remember still being peeved that DeGrey was off the radar for most people. Honestly I feel like I'm right and I want to know if I'm right, both my gut and reason have pushed me towards scum DeGrey all game and it still feels like you just didn't give my interpretation much credence. I understand that you wanted me to step back and look at it more objectively at a certain point, it was warranted, but I also dislike that while you told me that I don't get the feeling you ever tried to see my interpretation because you refused to read DeGrey at that point.

Your interpretation could be valid. In actuality I don't remember anything about it, but what I do know is that I provided another interpretation and you agreed that it was also viable, thus proving that you were only looking at one half of the spectrum without any reason to not consider the other. If you have other points that you feel I'm missing, let me know.

I'm sorry if it implies that but it wasn't the case; I remember you being a brick wall when it comes to DeGrey and earlier saying that you weren't going to read him, and then when .jpg tries to you telling him he's wrong. It annoyed me, because if you aren't going to read him then how can you tell other people how to read him? That in and of itself wasn't a large point for me, the large point was are you or are you not going to read DeGrey? If not then I wanted to know where your confidence in .jpg's read being wrong came from. If so then really then I wanted to know your read, although it could easily be assumed.

A "brick wall" lol.
There's a difference between reading someone and being able to identify when reads aren't wholly correct. I told you that your read had a second side because it did -- you acknowledged as much. I told VG the same because his read had a second side as well; his read was plainly not acknowledging an obvious town-motive possibility which is what I addressed. In actually reading Degrey, I haven't touched any two-side ideas and instead I've been content with his play, which hasn't seemed to have scum strategies, posturing, etcetera. The reasoning people say you have tunnel vision is because you're only seeing one perspective, the one where your target is scum.

Out of Nich, Nabe, and PLSD, Nabe is the best lynch imo. Nich has been a pretty strong town read of mine and while he has been majorly focused on Nabe this entire time, I think he's been much more transparent than Nabe. Nabe on the other hand came into the game strong and was very active at first and really getting his hands dirty but in the past 1000 posts he's dropped off from that and has spent a lot of time poking at Nich, and asking some questions but I don't know where he stands right now. PLSD should die but it would be better if they were vigged since they have pretty much no connections and nothing would be gained from their lynch. Of course that's assuming there is a vig, if not then we might have to deal with PLSD inactivity as well tomorrow :-/

Not understanding the Swiss hate, he doesn't post much but when he does he has content and he actually analyzes it, which is more than can be said for PLSD.

KK I need you, where should I put my vote?

It's like J is speaking through you.
Anyway, you clearly know which lynch you want to be on ("Nabe is the best lynch imo") and shouldn't need to ask KK where your vote should go... and certainly not in public in any case, as that opens up the possibility that it's you posing for the camera. We know you're part of a whole -- take it to QT like a hydra would.

 

[Overswarm]

Vote count:

T-block - Ranmaru,
Nich - Zen,
Nabe - Nicholas1024, Kawaii Kangaroo, SoupaKatamari,
Ranmaru - T-block,
Swiss - Degrey, Videogames.jpg, Reyth, Nabe,

Not voting: Swiss, Prehistoric Laundry Sex Dance, July,

Deadline is set for Tuesday, August 9th, at 3:00 p.m. EST
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@SK, Kawaii
I think we're seeing eye to eye on all the major points here, I agree the Swiss wagon seems really scummy. I have two questions for you two.

1) Townie voting block? (Just promise me that you aren't an indie, I seem to have a habit of befriending those recently...)

2) What do you think of Reyth's recent play? His early game felt really townie to me, but I'm absolutely despising the way he's defended Nabe and dodged my challenge (with stuff like "Swiss is worse"), and his quick jump on the Swiss wagon without reasoning really feels bad to me.


Anyway, it's astonishing how similar the Swiss wagon is to my wagon in D1 of Fire Emblem Mafia. (To summarize, a townie made a horrible case on me based on my semi-inactivity, and several scum plus a few more idiot townies bandwagoned on.)

Swiss = me (the semi-lurkish target, townie)
Degrey/Video = Zen (The originators of the horrible case. Zen was townie and I think video is mistaken townie, not sure about Degrey.)
Nabe/Reyth = Beatstick (The scum that join the easy wagon.)

You know, the net effect of the Swiss wagon is to give me a town read on him, I simply can't see such a dumb wagon developing without scum help.

@Nabe lynch stuff
So Nabe joins the Swiss wagon. Is anyone remotely surprised by this? It's a safe wagon that isn't him. One note for all people currently not voting Nabe...

Nabe lynch is a definite possibility, we can make it happen.

Me, SK, Kawaii, July = 4 votes near-guaranteed.

I'm pretty sure we can get Swiss onboard, especially given Nabe's recent play.

So all we'd need to do is convince Ran (or two other townies) and that's a lynch.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

^on top of that wii think nabe needs more questioning (that is before he decisively becomes the lynch, which he will fingers crossed... but some details need to be ironed out!)

Posturing. Why would you need more questions from me if you'd like me to decisively become the lynch? (fingers crossed suggesting of course that you're set on your vote)

wii'd like to know how and why you came to understand grey's motives here when he was looking for a victim crumb attracting the flavour of... the killer (?). Wouldn't you agree it would be ever so slightly odd if victims of Jaws cut themselves before swimming in the sea?

Not the best analogy. If you know there's a shark in the water, you don't go in the water at all. But the game being the water, the players are already in it. And the shark in our scenario is a thinking person hiding amongst the others.

Let's use the analogy of a locked room with people inside. Someone tells the group that there's a killer, and that killer's looking for a specific person. Then, someone consciously hints that they're the target. You think:
a) that person is the target (they're cocky, or dumb, or trying to look over-the-top)
b) that person is lying about being the target (they're town trying to fake it)
c) that person is lying about being the target (they're the killer)

What you're suggesting is that a player of this game wouldn't be interested in finding that hint. Specifically, that the player who knows that there's a killer looking for a target wouldn't be interested in information regarding the killer or the target.

curiously... had wii actually have died, what would have been your final points against us? You claimed "sparse, null/not very memorable" - that is you couldn't generate information from them as a result. That would have left page 4 as your only strong basis as a scum tell, supported #here and later #here - the claim couldn't have been a factor on your read as it wasn't affective - it didn't exist to you. As such this is an issue wii can agree on with Nich --> your reads look unusually quaint... wii need to assess whether they are deliberately so as if to feign content and get a footing in the game or whether you're simply not putting effort into looking at any of the hundreds of other actions done in-game to reassess, reassure or reform your reads as an insecure/uncertain townie would/should/could/blah blah blah. As a result of all this soup says you're untrustworthy.

My points are... what I've said they are. If you don't contribute, then I don't have actions to take as town or scum, so kindly don't vilify me for that.

What does the bolded mean? I'm not sure I follow.

i mean really? how can your analysis explain why Soup continued to stand by his point if he purposely yielded to yours? It doesn't - well, it does, but not well at all. Our analysis is much cleaner Soup stated multiple times he stands by his points - how can this be taken as tacitly doing the opposite? Do you at the very least understand where my thoughts are coming from concerning Soup? Wii cannot relate to how you see that exchange in the way you do now because it looks like over-analysing, something being shaped into fine bone china (thrown to a brick wall, admittedly )

Here's the other part that doesn't sync with the posts I've made. I understand where your thoughts come from if you're town, and if you're scum obviously I understand it as well. I think you're scum since my explanation makes more sense (2312, I think) and I'd like a quote to it since you seem to have passed over it in favour of your own rehash.

Well... all issues to do with the wording and flavour of our claim comes down to allegations of us lying and the mod's choices. If we were lying, you'd catch us out in a lie. I believe this is simple logic. Song of Time: 1x speed was speculated to not rewind the Day by flavour due to its similarity to the Song of Time... yet it still did. This phenomenon, how can it be explained?

Grey's claim is more believable "on the face"? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. How so exactly?

See my response to July.

By measuring our "presence" in this game and using this as a scum tell against us, why didn't you do so similarly with Zen, Swiss and Sex Dance given the times?

Zen, Swiss and PTSD are all inactive. That's not at all the same as what I'm saying about you, you're here and not doing anything memorable.

#2252 / #1157 / #1040 / #1170 etc etc etc etc etc - feels like you're grey's PA. this is merely an observation. What was the point in the "supported by" comment? also why is there no doubt about, well, anything? He faked an ability that pertains to the flavour of his claim - he saved jpeg over a questionable crumb - the way he's handled nich toDay. For a player that has spoken to this game in gambits, it feels unnatural that you would simply make utter sense of everything he has done

But none of those are defenses of Grey at all, lol. 2252 is even the opposite, it's me doubting Grey, made obvious by the posts that follow in which I thought he was calling me scum and asking me to substantiate his own scum read of me.

The "supported by" comment is there because what Reyth said is supported by what I said. It's self-explanatory. What response were you expecting here?

I've had doubts on DeGrey several times. In early game I had no clue what to make of him. More recently, 2252 which you pointed out. I don't understand how you'd come to a different conclusion.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Reyth
Back up your vote on Swiss, why exactly is he scummy beyond not being caught up on the thread? Also, why was my post on why Swiss not fitting the Nabe-scum mold ignored? Finally, why have you continually ignored my challenge regarding Nabe's scum hunting?

 

[Reyth]

@Nich:

1) I was waiting for the accusation that Nabe, myself and Grey were scum. I just knew that was going to show up.

2) Swiss is active lurking which is a scum tell
2a) A scum tell is NOT defined as something only scum do but INSTEAD as something that scum will tend to do MORE OFTEN than town.
2b) More on Swiss below

3) I read your post about Nabe vs. Swiss and I disagree. At this point Swiss has become an active lurker and Nabe is nowhere near that at all.

4) I mean you can read just about every post from Nabe and see that he is scum hunting; I mean just read the content, it is full of scum hunting thought processes. That is why I disagree with your case.
4a) Besides Nabe is my scum buddy and I don't want him lynched.
4b) Dittos for Grey

Now for why the Swiss Love Train is the place to be:

Says prefers to read Swiss as town as a resource.

Says he will get a scum read on Swiss when reads diverge; until then Swiss is town.

This is why I sheep Grey here. Swiss is at active lurker status now so he has some 'splainin to do!

This is the Love Train!! C'mon join in!!!

 

[Overswarm]

Prehistoric Laundry Sex Dance has been prodded.

On a side note, at over 2550 posts we are only about 200 away from having more posts on D1 than the entirety of Newbie Mafia 13 and Gurren Lagen Mafia, both of which are finished.

 

[T-block]

@Nich: On Nabe, he pushed SK early for their reaction to my mechanics post. Pushes Nich hard. Pressures Swiss to answer his questions. More recently, gets on me several times to ensure I answer his questions. Follows up by asking me for my second scum pick. Throughout the game, he's been asking questions and stating dislikes for posts/points. Maybe he hasn't said "that answer is scummy, i want his lynch" (although he has when talking about you) because he hasn't received any answers that make him think that? Look at Ran's request in 2379, asking Reyth for his thoughts on KK's 2361. Reyth goes into quite a bit of detail, but Ran doesn't bring up the issue back up at all. Are you going to get on his case for that?

Even then, in 2306 he says he wants vg dead for open hydra disagreement. Look at 2169. I think you are selectively ignoring posts to fit your read on Nabe. Also, is it really fair to say "show me where he's been scumhunting/pushing... oh, and the push on me doesn't count"?

I dislike his recent behaviour quite a bit actually (calls me "just wrong" about Ran, but when asked about it, only defends Ran with meta; his hop on the Swiss wagon is kinda gross), but it's not going to put him as a top scum read yet.

---

Can we just lynch Ran and be done with the day? :D We have five people willing to vote him IIRC. wrt Ran, he had a super strong scum read on vg.jpg until 2237, where he says he's getting a "BIT better", doesn't say much else about him, and then suddenly doesn't list vg as a lynch possibility for him. Jumps on my wagon in 2284, citing the reasoning that we need a flip. This wouldn't be so bad since he did say earlier that he would vote me at the deadline for a flip (it was nowhere near the deadline at 2284 though), but then in 2302 he says after July's post against me he is more than willing to lynch me... July's post brought nothing new to the table - it was the standard "T-block has been floating on his reads etc etc". Why is he more willing to lynch me after July's post, and doesn't that suggest he didn't have any reason to be voting me earlier? He also adds that he can double vote me, but only if needed. Might be some restriction on his double voting ability, so I won't make too big a deal out of it, but this could be Ran being too careful. His activity level has also dropped significantly... could it be because people have been showing desire to lynch him?